We have talked quite a bit about concrete walls and crawlspace foundations here lately. Many have added their tips and information in their posts. Since this seems to be of interest here I thought I would take some pictures of forming on one of my worksites.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010427_edited.jpg)
I was just doing some of the structural steel. The tradesman building the forms said that it was important to anchor the walls well to the ground or footing as the heavy concrete would lift them up. I mentioned that I drove spikes into rock to anchor my forms in the basement I'm working on and he said that was common for them sometimes too. I drive 60d spikes into 1/4 inch holes rotohammered into the rock if necessary. A 1/4 inch hole will also take 3 16d nails and hold firmly in many situations. the above forms are braced every 8 feet and anchored every 4.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010428_edited.jpg)
Steel is placed and tied per plan. Verticals extend from the previously poured footing.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010429_edited.jpg)
This one shows the steel where forms have not been put in yet.
Here is a method of forming where a ramp will be placed later - a slot is left for the rebar.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010430_edited.jpg)
Another one showing a corner.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010432_edited.jpg)
Here is a method of keying slabs together or forming a decorative groove in the wall. They also nail wood shapes on to 45 the corners. etc.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010433_edited.jpg)
This shows a dobie put in to space the steel from the form properly - it is left in without problem as the concrete flows around it.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010434_edited.jpg)
Bracing to a hill with turnbuckles for adjustment.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010435_edited.jpg)
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010440_edited.jpg)
Snap-ties are used on most big jobs. You can use all thread with a PVC sleeve slit down the side for removal as an optional method. Knock it out and fill the hole after forms are removed.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010439_edited.jpg)
Snap-ties have to be ordered in specific lengths and have proper hardware to work properly.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010438_edited.jpg)
They space the forms and hold them apart but the holes still have to be filled afterward.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010441_edited.jpg)
Frames are built over footings for columns or light poles to support the reinforcing steel and finish the surface area to.
.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010437_edited.jpg)
The rest is formed as necessary to make the concrete the shape they want.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010436_edited.jpg)
If you have pictures or information you want to add to this topic please feel free to jump right in here. :)
Looks like that forming contractor is a pro!
I used to specify a number of metal-channel concrete inserts in concrete walls and pits for general anchorage purposes. The original company in this product area was "Unistrut". Their "claim to fame" is a framework system that is centered around a square metal tube ... with one side open ... the ears are folded inward forming a "channel". Pre-threaded spring-loaded nuts are provided that can be inserted in the square channel, and then slid to any location along the length of the channel. This provides the attachment means.
It takes a bit of reading to understand "Unistrut" if you've never seen the system. If you search around under the 1 5/8" product descriptions you will find "concrete inserts".
There's a lot a stuff on their website:
http://www.unistrut.com/
Ah, such fond memories. As a union carpenter in Denver most of our work was heavy concrete.
JRR, I use unistrut & uninuts fairly frequently to mount electrical panels. In fact I just did a couple last week. Unistrut has many uses. I used it to mount my solar panels on a roof.
Wow, what a job. Now, I'm REALLY glad I went with dry stack block walls.
Nice set of pics and comments.
Thanks Glenn,
I come here to escape daily life and what do you do......... post pictures of the very things I am forced to stare at and work with 60 hours a week.
At least you didn't include pix of the Mixer running over your tools and washing out in the street!
Jersey Dave - the professional concrete truck driver -- best friend of the guy running the chute.
Sorry about that Dave -- Speaking of washing out in the street, we have a bunch of idiots making laws out here like you can't wash out on the ground -- they probably have investments in the concrete washout collection box service business, lobbyist making all kinds of pay offs etc. The poor driver has to collect his chute wash out water in a bucket - suck it up into an onboard vacuum cleaner tank and take it with him. Don't the law making idiots realize that he just dumped 25000 acres of concrete foundations and parking lot directly on the ground exactly where the washout would have went anyway? :o Like the truck washout was some kind of hazard but the 25000 acres of concrete was benign.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/smashfreakB.gif)
Hello -- anybody home --- would somebody please get these money grubbing idiots out of office and put their cousins in jail for bribing a politician? There has to be a cleaner way to make a living. Yeah --- let's all pretend they are really doing something important, besides making a new business for their cousin and increasing the cost of building for the little guy and the big guy who then charges it to the little guy. :-/
PS: Dave - I actually thought about taking a picture of the concrete truck driver washing his chute into his plastic bucket then vacuuming it up and posting it here with my above rant. I thought it was so ridiculous.
I will try to restrict most of my concrete stuff to this heading so I don't always ruin your day. :-/
PPS: Dave.... any tips? :)
Glenn, you are kidding, right?????? Oh, I forgot, you are in the People's Republic of California...nuff said.
Okie Bob
PS: just had to add....that is about the most stupid thing I've heard of yet.
QuoteJersey Dave - the professional concrete truck driver -- best friend of the guy running the chute.
Sorry about that Dave -- Speaking of washing out in the street, we have a bunch of idiots making laws out here like you can't wash out on the ground -- they probably have investments in the concrete washout collection box service business, lobbyist making all kinds of pay offs etc. The poor driver has to collect his chute wash out water in a bucket - suck it up into an onboard vacuum cleaner tank and take it with him. Don't the law making idiots realize that he just dumped 25000 acres of concrete foundations and parking lot directly on the ground exactly where the washout would have went anyway? :o Like the truck washout was some kind of hazard but the 25000 acres of concrete was benign.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/smashfreakB.gif)
Hello -- anybody home --- would somebody please get these money grubbing idiots out of office and put their cousins in jail for bribing a politician? There has to be a cleaner way to make a living. Yeah --- let's all pretend they are really doing something important, besides making a new business for their cousin and increasing the cost of building for the little guy and the big guy who then charges it to the little guy. :-/
That is why California is known as the land of the fruits and the nuts. Just be glad you only got the nuts. The worst part about it is bureaucrats in other states use CA as a role model. Are you running vegetable oil on your chainsaw bar? Does your firewood smell like it was prepped at McDonalds? Have you taken your Bobcat in for emissions testing? It seems a lot safer on this side of the state line.
Sorry guys-- the fruits are here too. :-?
I am not kidding --- I thought it was bad enough when they were all building washout basins with straw bales and plastic liners - then the roll off washout dump beds came along -- the service for the big fee trick -- now the drivers/companies are afraid to get water on the ground so this new industry has sprung up selling this special washout cleanup system --
I started my rant with the driver pointing out all the concrete he had just poured on the ground and failed to clean up -- of course I was on his side, but like a good driver -- he was just cleaning up his mess and not complaining. :-/
When I saw the lengths the idiots were driving the concrete companies to I thought it was time for a rant. Maybe I'll take a picture of "The System" for you today, Dave, if he shows up again. :)
Concrete wash will kill fish and aquatic plants (because portland cement is very alkaline, if I remember the chemistry). So I suspect that in this case at least, the idiots and nuts in power are just heeding the advice of fisheries biologists.
We are at that stage here now........ no uncontained wash water on the ground...... ANYWHERE!
And since NJ is first in line behing the ass of CA I guess the pump thing will be here next (I've heard it might be coming).
The EPA almost shut our plant down last month due to run-off......... now it's shut down and they are doing a gazillion dollar restoration. Luckily the same thing happened to another of our plants last year and it was already redone, there fore I'm not completely out of a job. I'm working there, but more than half of our list (the bottom guys) aren't so lucky........ Thanks EPA, sent 20 guys to the unemployment line!
I've always said the same thing about the irony.......... I can pull up and dump out 45,000 lbs of crete anywhere the contractor points to. Try to use 4.5 gallons of water to clean the chutes and I'm a criminal.
I'm done
I took pictures of their bucket and hose today. I guess they raise the chute and gravity it to the containment vessel. I didn't bring the pix in the motel room to post though.
I hear there is some self appointed agency that comes out and writes tickets and if the driver refuses to sign the ticket they cuff him and haul him into jail. Fines have run from $27,000.00 to $3,000,000.00 in various locations around Sacramento according to the driver.
QuoteConcrete wash will kill fish and aquatic plants (because portland cement is very alkaline, if I remember the chemistry). So I suspect that in this case at least, the idiots and nuts in power are just heeding the advice of fisheries biologists.
Sorry Bart - I hit the wrong button up there - meant to quote you - not modify you.
I guess gigantic projects could be major abusers, but many have seen a money making opportunity here - as with almost anything.
Damn
27,000 is the minimum fine....Well I would go for the cuff and stuff route...I do not have the money for the fine...I would do the 30 days or whatever...
I say that never having done time in jail....But no wonder the drivers refuse to sign a declaration of guilt statement and get hauled off to jail
I would just buy a truckload of cement and have it anonymously dumped in the inspector's car one night... ::)
leave a note....something tender and caring ...Asking if the ground under his car was in compliance with the environmental law...12345(whatever it is called)
Then ask him what he was going to do to rectify the problem...
P.S. the note saying the cops were on the way to cuff and stuff him if he did not have 27,000 lying around for the fine...
;)
I can hardly believe this stuff. These "people" have no sense of value - apparently greed has taken over for their agency - whatever it is.
The driver said it is a $100 fine if you drive over one of their straw wattles, which many times are put out only to demonstrate compliance - not because they are doing anything. Common sense tells you that the runoff is going in the opposite direction but that doesn't matter because these people don't have any and would be indignant if you mentioned it. They are truly drunk on their own power. :-/
QuoteDamn
27,000 is the minimum fine....Well I would go for the cuff and stuff route...I do not have the money for the fine...I would do the 30 days or whatever...
I think I would just go for the collect the water and dispose of it properly route.
The fines may seem excessive but they are still small relative to the damage that can be done. Even small fish kills are usually measured in terms of hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost fish catch over the next few years it takes for the fishery to recover.
Even a small spill of a few gallons will be carried downstream killing fish and eggs all along the way. You might assume that the wash water will be quickly diluted once it's in a stream. That's not necessarily true but even if it is, highly corrosive liquids are still lethal to fish even when mixed with a hundred times the volume of water. So all you get is greater volume and therefore more and more fish killed as the spill travels downstream.
The straw barriers are in place to keep sediment out of the storm sewers. On busy construction sites, a large amount of dirt is tracked into the street by trucks leaving, and those trucks could be headed either uphill or downhill. Maybe in rare cases due to the configuration of the site and street access you can be sure that trucks will only head downhill. But if a truck runs over a barrier, then it's definitely needed there.
QuotePS: Dave - I actually thought about taking a picture of the concrete truck driver washing his chute into his plastic bucket then vacuuming it up and posting it here with my above rant. I thought it was so ridiculous.
I wouldn't have believed those photos if you'df posted them.... then again I would. Just happy that we're still back in the "dark ages" here in NM where the concrete trucks wash out on the builders lots.
Thanks, Bart -- it helps a bit when you see the other side. :)
Still seems hard to believe that they should not ban all concrete poured onto the ground for any reason. :) :-/
Here are the truck pix and the system--
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010465_edited.jpg)
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010464_edited.jpg)
and here are a few more concrete method pix.
Existing concrete is often protected with plastic to prevent unnecessary cleanup. It is poured over then cut off.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010461_edited.jpg)
Note the center screed board with the temporary wire on a stake support to maintain elevation.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010462_edited.jpg)
Curves can be made with multiple stakes - tops wired if double sided. They used the back of the bendy fiberboard siding as bender board. I don't know the proper name. :-/
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010456.jpg)
I feel so much safer now knowing the washout is proper. I was starting to have a migrane but it has gone away.
When I built my pond at the other house, the water was much too toxic for fish until I neutralized it - with acid if I remember right. This was not from the wash water but from the concrete itself.
All of the concrete out there has the same problem as the wash water. Possibly the industry will voluntarily ban all concrete in its entirety to prevent this traumatizing destruction of natural resources and your migraines, desdawg. :-?
I hate to be argumentative but, (well maybe I don't) I live on a 33,000 acre lake here in Tx and it is virtually encircled by retaining walls. A lot (not all) are made with concrete or have concrete walkways on top of the metal retaining walls. And I'm talking about hundreds if not thousands of them all around the lake. Some are even Sakrete bags just laid side by side across the front of the owners property.
So, my question is, why have we had no fish kills? This lake is one of the most prolific fisheries anywhere. I'm continually amazed how so many fishermen take limit after limit of crappie, sand bass, hybrid bass, catfish day aftert day after day, year after year after year.
If concrete is causing any problem for the fish, someone forgot to tell the fish!
And, if the wash water from concrete trucks is so harmful, tell me why the area around the wash is the most fertil for growing grass on my whold property?
This all sounds like more bad 'science' to me and now I'm getting that same migrane that Desdawy had awhile ago!
Okie Bob and sure glad I don't have to live in LaLaLand or the People's Republic of CA.
Okie BoB, I'm afraid you may have too much common sense to understand this discussion. :-/ :) But please keep trying. ;D
The way I see it, the entire earth is a balance of acids and alkalies, and when one gets out of balance the other gets it back in balance. While I don't want to stand in a pool of either one, they both head back toward neutrality as soon as they can get there. That is the way a concrete slab becomes more neutral.
From what I understand about this, Texas has some mighty alkaline soils in their limestone areas - most of it. I'm afraid after controlling this alkaline washout water, the next thing we must do is do is outlaw Texas.
Interesting info on soils - acids - alkalies
://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/soilph/soilph.htm
Cured concrete is not a problem...the portland cement undergoes a chemical reaction as it cures. But fresh uncured concrete is very caustic...
http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_working.asp
QuoteProlonged contact between fresh concrete and skin surfaces, eyes, and clothing may result in burns that are quite severe, including third-degree burns. If irritation persists consult a physician. For deep burns or large affected skin areas, seek medical attention immediately.
Wet concrete in forms is not a problem either. Most of the water will be used up in the curing process or will evaporate out. Even concrete wash can be dumped on the ground if the ground is reasonably permeable and not too close to a stream or lake. The fine sediment gets filtered out and the concrete will cure before it ever reaches a stream. You can still do exposed aggregate driveways. In that case the washed-off concrete is partially cured so not as dangerous. The wash water should still be diverted away from the street but in most places it's ok to let it percolate into the ground.
I'm generally in favor of less regulation and reduced government interference in our lives. But if concrete suppliers and contractors just refuse to believe in the dangers of wash water then hefty fines may be the only thing that keeps the stuff out of streams and lakes.
Some FAQs and background info here...
http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/water_quality/fish_and_pollution/conc_myth_real_e.htm
http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/water_quality/fish_and_pollution/conc_char_e.htm
Gotta go with Bart on this one too...but there could be something better than the recovery system. I would think that system in locales near surface waters would make sense but if you aren't near any surface waters, why couldn't a temporary sedimentation basin like they use in dewatering operations work? There really is a huge difference between cured concrete, curing concrete, and concrete wash. Cured concrete is pretty harmless, curing concrete can be problematic if in direct contact with water, concrete wash is horrible stuff. The sediments, the chemical compounds, and the PH of the concrete is not something you want to get into water if you want fish. The PH change from concrete wash could very well create a good environment for some plants to grow lush but that doesn't indicate it would be good to get into the water.
....then again, maybe I work at 5000 E Mcdowell Rd Mesa, AZ ;)
My migrane is coming back. And I don't get migranes. Maybe it is a hemi-roid. How many concrete trucks do you have to wash out to contaminate Lake Michigan? How about Lake Huron? How about Okie Bob's Lake in Texas? I want to know just how really significant this is. The toxins in a septic tank's effluent are neutralized in less than 3' of perculation. And that is dumped in the exact same location year after year. Concrete trucks are only washed out a few times per job and then it is over.
Daddymem, what has Boeing got to do with it?
OK, enough ranting from me. Guess I'll go get some canola oil for my chainsaw bar.
Quote
....then again, maybe I work at 5000 E Mcdowell Rd Mesa, AZ ;)
I googled this too,,,, I'll bite. What's the significance??
The only thing I can figure is that that's where they come from. Is that it Daddymem?
QuoteI'll go get some canola oil for my chainsaw bar.
get me a can o'oil too ::)
I think he's razzing me a bit, Mountain Don. :)
It's a California thing.
Check it out zoomed way in, Bird's eye view, on maps.live.com
I suspected
And now we are jumping from concrete to septic??? No wonder you got a migraine, keep the apples together and it may make sense. And maybe the scale too. One washout ain't gonna kill a lake, but would it be okay the washout flowed into a river and killed a few fish? And the next day a few more, then a few more the following day because it is one of those massive subdivisions with McMansions 100 feet on center? On the other hand some sensibility is a must, if there is no waterbody nearby, just let em wash out into a hole in the ground.
Are those the black helicopters that keep following me?? :-/
Quoteif there is no waterbody nearby, just let em wash out into a hole in the ground.
That would require some decision making. If the answer's not in the book, oh my god, what do we do/
but remember...you'd be asking a contractor to make that decision...good luck when it touches the bottom line
They're on me like flies on stink. You too, Mountain Don?
I think the thing about this is once an agency is appointed or appoints itself with the ability to levy massive fines, common sense is out the window -- there is no more. As we keep making new rules and laws for ourselves we become more and more prisoners of the police state. I guess there is no nice way to make sure the abusers don't abuse so this is what it comes to even for the small insignificant amount in a totally safe area or place.
This is where they love to put the little dudes with a ticket book and a power trip.
As you all know my livelyhood relies on the concrete industry.
However I've been doing this for a couple decades or so and can tell you that we have some of the healthiest bullfrogs in our "run off pond" at the concrete plant where I work...... no bullshit.
I can also tell you that since the EPA and DEP crawled up my employers ass a few years ago with extremely strict and ridiculous regulation, the price of our product has DOUBLED.
Hope all you environmentally OVERLYfriendly folks enjoy the cost of construction these days.
All industry needs common sense control, the EPA and DEP is not capable of common sense.
Please explain to me how my employer is supposed to stop the RAINWATER from leaving his property...... thats right, he needs to control the rain. EPA SAYS ZERO RUNOFF.
I feel another price increase coming!
Once it gets to the powertrippers there is no common sense allowed. The big guys may be able to factor it into their pricing --maybe -- but in the end the peons are going to pay.
More oranges. Bullfrogs don't have gills to get clogged up with the sediments like fish do and they tend to be a more resilient species anyways and concrete prices continue to soar mostly because China is gobbling up the cement supplies. Stopping rainwater couldn't be easier...swale it to detention basins and I'm sure it is a pine grove where this rain is falling that we are talking about right? And yes, DEP and EPA do have out of control regulations that need lots of work but could you imagine trying to come up with them? Until someone comes up with a better way you have to just keep trying to change those that are wrong and these washout ones sound like ones needing changes.
It must be nice to stand back and proclaim that "nothing could be easier" especially when you are completely detached from the situation.
Have you ever heard of gravity...... water table...... sediment........etc. etc. etc.
EPA won't allow detention basins........ guess they haven't heard how "nothing could be easier".
WAKE UP!
I'm done with this topic....... My blood pressure can't take it.
Thanks for your input Jersey Dave. I know this is right in your back yard.
Daddymem is an engineer and a good one, so is familiar with many of the problems associated with these issues. Obviously not being there he cannot know all of the factors involved or the roadblocks set up.
I realize that working with the "agencies" can completely bankrupt a company and they don't really give a damn.
If we could do something about it we would but the lawmakers know how to mess things up to where sometimes they can't be fixed.
I hope a good solution comes along.
If your blood pressure comes down please update us on what is happening. :)
Educate us Dave, don't go in a huff. There are usually many sides to all stories. I am not familiar with the exact EPA regulations you speak of but I deal with storm water in my job all the time. Basins in groundwater are no problem, heck you can even get water to run in inverted pipes so gravity can be overcome in some ways. I'm one of those weirdos that fits somewhere in the middle. I think there should be regulations because, quite frankly, people can't be trusted, but I think there can be too many regulations too. Sometimes it is difficult to balance that. We engineers are supposed to be enforcers of the regulations for the agencies, benders of the regulations for our clients and weigh in our personal beliefs somewhere in there too. If my clients had their way, all my basins would be too small to control stormwater and their neighbors would be flooded out. If the DEP had their way, my clients would make no profit. I am currently working on a stupid 6 lot subdivision where two of the lots would encompass existing houses...since my initial application in August. Another meeting this monday evening and it doesn't look like we will close it. Believe me, I know dealing with regulations...
And btw, I like frogs, fish and concrete guys too-my dad is one. And concrete too...I've got a piece of my first concrete cylinder crushed in materials lab sitting on my monitor at work.
Jersey Dave, don't know if you want to divulge this information or not but could you give us an address for the site in question so we would be able to look it up on Live Map and at least see a bit more of what your company is up against.
If you'd rather not just say so. Thanks :)
Here is the regulations I think he is dealing with.
http://www.njconcrete.com/aggregate.htm
and it sounds like good news...a bit of a homerish site but looks like in this case the industry has won some ground
Quote
Daddymem is an engineer and a good one
Wow, aren't we sticking our neck out. For all you know I designed the bolts in the big dig tunnel roof. ;)
No, I didn't...really.
I have worked with engineers for the last 30 years or so. I know when they are full of it. My BS meter doesn't go off when I deal with you. :) (Very often) ;D
Don't get me started on the mess of my field.
Oh and- Go PATS!
Normally I'd say go Bs too, but we know how that season is going :-[
What was that about the Bruin's ::) 13th place , :'( the way the current playoff sch. is , they may still make it into the playoffs ::)
Haven't watched a game in two years , the strike and the way they've changed the game pretty much just makes it uninteresting to me these days .
I'd rather bash the local regulators / engineers / politicians / and iron workers , heck architects as well ;D
For an old fellow you sure are rowdy, PEG.
Sorry boys --- all I ever knew about sports was that sometimes you could get a girl to go to the game with you. :-/
QuoteFor an old fellow you sure are rowdy, PEG.
Who said I was old >:( Why I oughta ...... ;D
Get 'em PEG. ;D
Daddymem, the common denominator isn't so much what is being put on or in the ground as natures ability to neutralize it's toxicity. The compononents of concrete come from the earth and nature can make them acceptable to return to the earth. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Man has been mixing the earths elements and pouring concrete for quite some time now and we haven't even come close to running out of seafood. But suddenly it is a problem. So my question remains are we talking about 1 fish in 10, 1 fish in 100 or 1 fish in 10 million? Just how significant is this?
Man's evolution on the planet is a long series of pendulum swings. We get sloppy and destroy in our lust for progress. Enter the environmentalists and we start to correct. Then the pendulum swings too far and we get way out of whack the opposite direction. That is what seems to be happening now. So we have to slow the environmentalists down and try to get the pendulum gently rocking back and forth around the dead hang position.
A similar situation would be the labor unions. At one time there was a real need for reform in labor practices. Enter the union organizers. Then the unions became too powerful. Now we have "Right to work" laws in many states. Same scenario. People get on a flag waving cause and get carried away. Things become too extreme.
We must have went to the same school, desdawg. Did your teacher ever smack you over the hand with a wooden ruler? :'(
Well said desdawg 8-) My teach used a 18" wooden ruler and it was across the back of the shoulder blades , only needed it once :o Joe LaFond 7th grade !
BTW I was not mared for life , didn't become a serial killer / criminal , drug addict, etc . And I deserved the whack and payed better attention in Mr. LaFond's class from then on.
Glenn, that reminds me of an article I read the other day you probably already know about.
Seems a Ca congress lady has introduced a bill to the Ca legislature to make it a crime to spank your own child. No excuses, no reason, you get caught you get finded and sent to jail!
Wow, my dad and I both would have been convicts, I guess...not to mention teachers I had.
Okie Bob
That's you PEG -- look what it did to me :-/
Please don't get me started on our politicians, Okie Bob. I have seen lots of kids who did not receive direction and our California cities are full of them. Prisoners in the making.
I'm being unfairly painted as a tree hugging environmentalist-I am not-I'm pretty much that middle pendulum. But I realize we can impact our environment negatively and we should strive not to do that when possible. This washout issue seems out of hand. I can the use of collectors/recyclers when working in a sensitive area but cannot see what use they have outide these sensitive areas. Here in Mass, they couldn't do the washout near wetlands or water bodies because there are usually no disturb buffers and buffers requiring permits to do anything in. The fines seem ridiculously high but I'm not privy to the economics. Typically the fines have to be high enough to not make it worth it to ignore, those seem way beyond that. Have these fines been levied on anyone or perhaps they are a "big stick" meant to threaten more than anything else.
Though all the ingredients do come in nature and eventually separate back into the earth, it is how it gets there and what it does on the way, and whether they actually exist where dumped that matters. I doubt many fish would be killed in the case of washout making it into a river-unless it were alewife season around here for example. That is when the stream is literally wall to wall fish. We have to look at the summation of all the TSS from many sources making it into the waters that don't belong there. Cement particles are very fine and wash away easily. Sediments are something the EPA is hard on now. Look into NPDES for more. I suspect that is part of the washout regulations.
Nah he ain't paintin ya , IMO. Are your radars sayin your being painted??
You watchin the Patties game ?? 0-0 1st 1/4 !
How about those Bruin's? Is Harry Sinden still GM ? He NEVER SHOULD HAVE TRADED Bobby Orr >:(
Sorry, felt like it. My education and experience are pretty much being set aside here. Kinda like if I told you that you used the wrong wood in that dresser you built. You do wood, I do storm water, erosion and sediment control, and deal with regulations (among many other things). Guess I paid for school and have worked with these issues for all these years for nothing.
The stuff in cement is nasty stuff...period. The cement people usually think of is harmless because the chemical reactions has made it a solid, if it weren't for that even the hard stuff would be dangerous. Instead of being part of a solid mass, washout suspends those nasties which makes it easy to find their way into a lake or stream as runoff. Harmful, maybe, harmless, maybe, preventable-entirely. Knowing how to regulate it-that the fine line (http://joe-ks.com/archives_jan2007/HighRider.htm).
Oh yeah, watchin' the Pats..lot better than 0-0 now.
Harry has taken a back seat finally-what a piece of %$& that guy is. The entire organisation has been overhauled from the GM down through the coaches and the players. Bobby wasn't traded-he signed with the Blackhawks because his agent was a lousy rat:
http://members.cox.net/bobbyorr-4/orrbody.htm
My opinion was just that. Nothing personal towards anyone. And I don't pretend to know everything. I just get tired of us being hammered with something new and expensive everytime we turn around. New regulations here a year ago increased the price of a septic system $1000. The consumer still get's the same septic system they always did, they just get to pay more for it. This year it is an impact fee. It will now cost an additional $8800 for a permit to build a house in this County. Allegedly this will force the newcomer to pay their way as services need to be added with the increase in population. Good theory right? However if you are not building a new site built home, but rather purchasing a manufactured home the fee is only $4000. Apparently manufactured home buyers drive on different roads and call a different less expensive sheriffs department when they have a problem. Stuff like this just ticks me off. So this topic was just another straw on the camel's back. I just found a place to vent a little.
I keep getting shocked. Everyone knocks the northeast as the land of regulations and barriers to construction. Doesn't sound so bad around here now. No problem Desdawg, I'm a little "off" from last night-maybe I woke up? :-?
Yeesh we got agame now :o21 - 21. I was a mistake for Orr how ever it happened, and yes Gov't regs get old , for all of us :(Cement is nasty , but it all cost money. Welcome to our world , humm just drpped a sure TD >:(
No worries eh mates :) We's just yakin to hear ourselfs anyway ;D Now it's a TD 27-21 NE.
Quotewe haven't even come close to running out of seafood.
Desdawg, I'm not sure if this was meant as a joke? An analogy would be a guy buying a bag of cookies. Whenever he gets the munchies, he reaches in and pulls out one or a few. After a week of eating cookies, he thinks "Hey, whenever I reach in the bag I always find a cookie. That must mean I'm not even close to running out." The reality is that over a quarter of the world's fisheries have already collapsed due to overfishing. Collapsed meaning that the fish population was reduced to less than 1/10th of what it was.
QuoteBut suddenly it is a problem.
The site I linked above says it has been illegal to dump lime into fish-bearing streams in Canada since 1868. I don't know the date for the U.S., but since fishing was a very large part of the economy in the 1800's, they probably had similar regulations. That said, it was doubtless not as critical to enforce while fisheries were flourishing. But now... rivers are dammed, water is diverted for agriculture, industry takes out cool water and dumps warmed water back in, pesticides and manure get washed in, nearby development leads to high levels of sedimentation, etc.... fish are under a lot more pressure. A fish kill that might have been easily absorbed before could now devastate the remaining population. There is also more concrete being used, so more trucks, more deliveries and more wash outs.
QuoteSo my question remains are we talking about 1 fish in 10, 1 fish in 100 or 1 fish in 10 million? Just how significant is this?
The same site as above says that the wash water from a single exposed aggregate driveway could cause a large kill of coho salmon. "Large kill" generally means 5,000 or more adult fish. A very large fish kill on a river might be 100,000 fish, but for the driveway it would be at the low end of the range, so say between 5,000 and 20,000 fish.
As in, when was the last time you saw a codfish? Or a school of Right Whales?
And back in the 1980's and 90's every year brought new fish to the market that used to be considered trash. Did anybody eat Orange Roughy back in 1969? Or even Tilapia--which can be farm-raised?
Back in the early 19th century there were apparently tuna fish big enough to feed a 200 man crew for two days--and they ate a lot of meat or fish in those days--a couple of pounds a day, if not meal.
Since many of us are interested in block wall foundations I thought I would snap a few pictures of the pros building a block wall that is later to be solid grouted at one one of my jobsites.
The foreman on this job built the corners first at each end of the wall with proper spacing already measured off and a line snapped on the foundation footings to keep the walls perfectly straight. This guys technique is so smooth that it makes me wonder why it seems hard at all. A quick whisk along the edge of the block with the trowel and the edge is buttered and ready to place. He doesn't use a great amount of mortar on the trowel.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010473_edited.jpg)
He used a precision 4 foot level to get the walls perfectly plumb.
I noticed a couple levels with hooks on them to keep them handy.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010478_edited.jpg)
A special hook with a string was then placed at the very edge of the block to keep the rest straight.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010466_edited.jpg)
Here is a better picture of it. You could make something similar from wood or wood and nails.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010467_edited.jpg)
Mortar is placed in cute little rows before the starter course is placed.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010471_edited.jpg)
Here is a section ready for the crew to go to work on.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010477_edited.jpg)
Steel is laid out on 24 inch centers to match the blocks which each have 2 holes on 8inch centers, so 3 of them equals 24". In this case the rebar was 5/8 inch.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010468_edited.jpg)
Steel columns are embedded in the walls as designed by the engineer. Hooked rebar is stubbed out for the floor slab that is to come later. The hook is inside the block.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010469_edited.jpg)
This contractor uses pallets of bags of premixed mortar - adds water and mixes for a smooth consistent mix.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010470_edited.jpg)
Long walls have special blocks for rubber expansion joints.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010479_edited.jpg)
Blocks of proper type are set up a spaced for the next days work. Every few feet is a table for mortar which one man mixes and another keeps refilling the tables.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010476_edited.jpg)
End of the days work, a few hundred feet of wall about 5 feet tall. :)