Howdy, I've been lurking for several weeks reading the messages and learning. I feel I already know many of you. I read your stories about how you've never built before and I see your impressive construction projects evolve into a comfortable home.
I'm in the north Dallas area and approaching retirement. Started exploring retirement home options and found this forum and the great communication yall have established here. I haven't located any land for building yet, just getting a feel for what options are available.
I like the 14x24 Builder's Cabin (stretched out to 14x28 with a small bumpout to make later additions easier) and later adding two more iterations of the basic 14x24 - one for the great room and one for the master bedroom. They would be configured in a "U" shape to make an open court yard in the middle. I've never built a house before and part of me keeps saying I'm in WAY over my head - but the helpfulness I have seen on this forum gives me confidence to press on knowing that competent help is ready and able. I think I have a basic understanding of how a house goes together, but I get lost in the details and I still haven't identified the requirements of the local building codes. Like many of yall, I'm looking to get the most house for my hard earned dollars and I'm looking for the best compromise between cost and low maintenance durability. Good looks has to fit in there somewhere, but it's not at the top of the list - structual functionality trumps glitter.
I'm especially interested in the "cool tubes" and would like to communicate with anyone that has incorporated these in their house or had any first-hand experience with their trial and error. I'm figuring that here in the Dallas area, they can be used for a primary source of winter heating and summer cooling. I'm concerned about condensation and potential mold growth. Condensation is also exothermic and opposes efficient cooling.
I'm also interested in adjustable piers. So few houses in the area have an unbroken slab foundation. I'm sure a strong slab can be built, but somewhere along the line, it ceases to be a cost effective option. I'm not sure how much adjustment would be needed or how precisely the house needs to be leveled to keep the sheetrock from cracking and doors jamming.
Bruce
Welcome Bruce.
Jonesey in Australia has put in cool tubes. Not sure if they are connected, etc., yet.
check out PAHS for both cooling and heating. (Passive Annual Heat Storage), e.g., here:
http://www.earthshelters.com/sustainable_living.html
Also AGS (Annualized Geo Solar) is Don Stephen's version. I'd heard that he hadn't been working hardly at all recently. But then there were reports of a horrible accident. From which I gather he is largely recovered. He is an architect up in the Northwest. The buildings may be less massive than the Hait ones.
Welcome to the forum Bruce.
Jonesy's also done adjustable stumps - as they are called in Australia. We have some adjustable Simpson's here I think.
Sounds like you are well on you way to doing what you want to do.
Gadday Bruce , any relation to Wallabe Bruce ??
Jeeesh I crack me up ;D
Welcome to the asylum / forum ;D
Anything I can do to help, PEG -- bring you your lithium? Just let me know. ;D
Ya could warm it up here , PNW, about 20 deg. ::) :o And bring back the rain instead of this snow :o
welcome aboard....
it may have been better to lurk from the edges... than actually have these loonies reply to your posts.... trust me on this ;D
Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Glenn
I am certifiable...Loonie..People have told me I had something wrong upstairs all my life.
I have never had a problem when people have said I was crazy or foolish...Tell someone that you are going to do something and they will say right off....No, you cannot do it like that...
Best example is when you say you are going to build a house yourself and live mortgage free 99.8% of the people just roll their eyes and wonder when the wack job wagon will show up to drive you off to the sanitarium :P
best thing about the internet is that you can do a search under google for insane home builders and presto a link to this place appears...
Sorry john not quite, but close enough
Live long enough and meet enough people and there is a place where us Loonie types are normal and the squares who will be 65 and hot have their mortgages paid off are the odd balls....You know the type...They went to college they have good jobs....They have worked all their lives drove new cars every 2 years and just kept re-financing the house when they needed a new car or wanted to go away on Vacation...
I don't know for sure...But I can guess that when you first thought about building the underground headquarters a few people thought u too were crazy...
QuoteGlenn
I don't know for sure...But I can guess that when you first thought about building the underground headquarters a few people thought u too were crazy...
We still do. The worst part about it is that we can relate and appreciate what has been done. Admire it even. We might even want to do something similar. That is why I am here at least.
I invited several of my friends to my Birthday Plaster Party. Now some of these women have probably not touched dirt, let alone mud in years and one of them looked at me with the most quizzical expression and asked "Now, why would you want to do this? :-?
There are so many reasons, I can't even begin. (but not having a mortgage at 65 is high on the list)
Judy
Really sounds like fun Judy. Sassy and I really wanted to go there and if I had the time I wouldn't mind the drive -- especially if you had a little break for mud wrestling. :)
Note -- I think I would like to go down in history as the eccentric old man who built the underground complex. Crazy would be my second choice.
QuoteGlenn
Live long enough and meet enough people and there is a place where us Loonie types are normal and the squares who will be 65 and hot
Peter, I hope I'm "hot" at 65! :D may be a little saggy though... :-/
Sassy
Well know know what to do....Get some of you and your girlfriends together for a photo shoot....The hotter the better ;)...I just nominated myself the Country homes "hotness" judge for all the beutiful ladies that post on this site...
Ladies do not wait for Sassy to take the lead.. send them photos often as you are able...I need something to torment my wife with... :) Tell her all the ladies from this site were so impressed with my new house they cannot wait to steal me away from her.
Maybe it will make her appreciate me more....I doubt it...But it is awfully fun to torment her
P.S. do not tell Glenn
Why are you picking on my typos? :P
Quote
I'm also interested in adjustable piers. So few houses in the area have an unbroken slab foundation. I'm sure a strong slab can be built, but somewhere along the line, it ceases to be a cost effective option. I'm not sure how much adjustment would be needed or how precisely the house needs to be leveled to keep the sheetrock from cracking and doors jamming.
Bruce
I guess I better work on another part of your question, Bruce.
Don't want you to think we're crazy and can't carry on a decent conversation.
Just about anytime you readjust the foundation there is the possibility of cracking sheetrock. Depends on how much you go in one place at one time partly. Slow careful even jacking in small amounts will do the least damage, but uneven settling or earth movement can also cause damage.
Some slabs will just crack on their own no matter what is done. Earth shifting or subsidence can cause cracks that grow or change over time. We have some areas with subsidence that have actually settled several feet below the road from water pumping. Hard to keep a building stable in areas such as those. Water pumping (mostly irrigation of farms) or oil pumping can cause large areas of the land to settle and destabilize even the best foundations.
Interesting article on why your foundation may change levels. Note that I drilled wells for 10 years and worked in the oil field so have been in areasa where this is happening.
If not for that I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/pubs/fs00165/
(http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/pubs/fs00165/Images/fig2.jpg)
Bruce:
For a small house such as the 14' wide Little House post and pier house you are contemplating, your need to re-level the house will depend on the degree of soil movement your site will deliver. This is usually a function of freeze depth and clay content of the soil. I expect the broken slabs you are seeing are not down below frost depth and/or are being built in wet clay soils.
The P&P foundations have an advantage in that you can support the beams with an adjustable post base
(http://www.strongtie.com/graphics/products/large/EPB44T4.gif)
http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/epb44t.html#gallery
Thanks for the warm welcome.
I had a look at the Hait information. The information on the mb-soft page appears to be more applicable to conventional framing above ground - my intended application - except I won't have a basement.
We're having sleet and snow today in the north Texas area, it was 78 earlier this week. So no warm weather to export to anywhere.
The Simpson adjustable piers appear similar to what I was intending to fabricate. I was figuring 1/2 inch threaded rod imbeded in the concrete pier would work well with the typical 1/2 inch ply spacer used in the beams. Big washer and nut on top (make sure there is not a joist directly over the pier). Use slotted washers for shims on the bottom. Simpson uses 3/4 inch hardware. I think 1/2 inch allthread or long bolts would be strong enough (just a wild guess). Use something to prevent wood - metal contact.
glenn
pretty shocking pictures...We are draining the water table in this continent...depleating aquifers and nobody cares or listens when someone speaks up....I think Bush and cronies think think the aquifer is some mythological beast second cousin to the loch ness monster
What is shocking and sad reading the link you provided is that in many areas the aquifer cannot easily be replenished...Even returning the water table will not automatically replenish the aquifer...I suspect it would absorb the water slowly over hundreds of years or some such
I lived near the place where the pictured man is holding the sign - as I remember, a store there sunk below the level of the road - eye level from the road is near the roof line.
Actually , once the water is gone from these aquifers, very little is able to go back - they do not replenish after consolidating in most cases. Kind of a natural process accelerated several thousand fold by man. Possibly in the future after man has gone from the area due to no water, a new aquifer will form on top of this one from increased erosion and runoff as the water can no longer get to it's old aquifer.
Bruce, I would go with nothing less than the 3/4" that Simpson uses. A 1/2 inch all-thread is pretty weak without several thousand lbs. on it. I easily break them off with a pipe if they are mis-placed in concrete. 3/4 is only a bit harder but still much stronger. The threads give a weak spot for shear to start.
Bruce: Your suggested 1/2" rod is probably fine for downward loads if you will be bearing on the washers rather than the bolt or rod. The Simpson hardware uses the bolt itself for bearing. Then you get into slenderness ratios and how high the bolt would be compared to its diameter.
If you have potential shear issues (from earthquakes or high winds) then do what Glenn is talking about and use the heavier bolts even if you have washers to carry the downward load.
This is just a flying visit to answer a PM from Bruce, and as it may be of interest to some others on the forum I have posted it here. Things are a bit full on around here at the moment with a number of grass fires out of control and other drought problems. So it may be a while before I get a chance to do a more detailed report on the cool tubes and house.
I have finally finished the hookup on my system and I have to say that initial test runs are not showing the results I had hoped for. While the air exiting the tubes is steady at 24 degrees C there is simply not the volume of air to have any major effect in cooling the whole house.
As you have seen on the web page my system is an open loop with the incoming air taken from outside the house. It is pumped through the system and into the house through floor registers in the bedrooms. The tubes are two 150mm PVC pipes around 40 meters long each, they are buried side by side at about 1.2 meters at the shallow end sloping down to about 1.8meters at the deep end. The slope was there to deal with any moisture in the tubes. At the low end I have drilled some large holes on the bottom of the pipe to let the water drain. This seems to have worked well, as I have detected no musty smell coming from the tubes even though they have been in place for some time.
I have used the 200mm (8") blower through some ducting and a reducer/splitter into my lines.
While I don't hold much hope of this being an effective cooling system in it's present form I think it may well be a reasonable air tempering system for the winter. In any case as I have it up and running I will tinker with it for another season to see what it will do.
Just a note on the adjustable stumps. The threaded rod on my stumps is 1-1/8" and if you were using these for a house stump I wouldn't go any smaller than that. I have posted some photos of my stump tops somewhere on the forum and I would think that our best researcher would be able to dig them up for you no problem at all. ;)
QuoteI would think that our best researcher would be able to dig them up for you no problem at all.
Oh boy-- that would be Amanda, but she's not here right now--- maybe I'll give it a go.
I forgot about the photo's -- I'll see if I can find them. Thanks, Jonesy.
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/stumpaj3.jpg)
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/stumpaj.jpg)
and a link to info.
http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1140911284/0#0
Thanks for the response, Jonsey. Your cool tube installation is very close to a part of what I was thinking for myself. I want both an open loop part and a closed loop part. The open loop would be for fresh air intake (I havent figured out the solution for the filter at the distant end to minimise dust, pollen and insect infiltration). I'm figuring about 9 cool tubes for the closed loop with each having a partially unique path - this is to prevent the shortage of air volume, and hopefully the recirculation would mean less tempering required for each pass through the loop. I think I also need a waterproof barrier over the tubes to keep the cold winter rain and snow melt from stealing too much heat.
Your adjustable stumps sound maybe earthquake proof. The wrench must be as long as my leg :)
Jonesy - when you get a break, are you pushing air through the tubes rather than pulling air through the tubes? Seems it might make a big difference, although it would mean putting power to the far end of the tubes.
"Pushing" thru the tubes would also be more effective for heat exchange, as there would be more-turbulent/less-laminar air flow in the tubes. ... as well as more air flow in total.
Here is another update on the cool tubes. I think my initial assessment of the system may have been a little previous. It may well be working a bit better than I first thought. We are still not in the house yet as I'm still waiting for my plumbob to put in an appearance. So, there are no drapes on the windows to help with the insulation. Previous to today I had let the house get a little to warm before starting the pump. There was also one window that was taking the full morning sun from about 7 am to around 10 am, I have since made a couple of shade awnings that protect that area.
We have no other air conditioning so this system is operating as a stand-alone unit at the moment. I will probably put an evaporative unit in later; these work well in this area as our humidity is fairly low most of the time.
The first run.
The overnight temp got down to around 19 dgr C so I opened most of the windows in the house to take advantage of this cooling. At 7.30 am I closed up the house and started the pump. The outside temp at that stage was the same as in the house, 20 dgr C. By about 10 am the outside temp had risen to 26 dgr C and the interior 21. By midday the outside temp had made 30 dgrs and the inside was holding steady at 23 dgrs. For the whole morning I was working inside the house and at no time felt uncomfortable with the temp. By about 3 PM the outside had made it to its peak of 35 dgrs with the temp indoors at 25. This was all fairly rough and ready as I only have one thermometer and have to move it round a bit. I forgot to take any readings at the floor duct so I have no information on the air temp out of the pipes for that day.
The second day was pretty much the same except the temp out side was around 32 dgr at midday and reached a peak of 37 at around 3 pm. At that stage the house inside had got to about 27 dgr C. This was just getting to the stage of being uncomfortable and I would have turn an aircon on if I had one. Interestingly In the house we are presently living in the aircon was needed at around 10 am both days.
Today was a real good test with a peak temp of 41 dgr C. The temp was 36 by midday The inside was holding around 27 and I was looking for the aircon switch. The air temp out of the tubes was about 26 dgr. I think the reason for this is the pump I am using is pushing the air through the system to fast.
I am still of the opinion that this system is to small but I think it has some potential so I will continue to play with it, to see what I can get out of it.
I have included a few snaps of the underside of the house and the ducting system
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/floorduct4.jpg)
The first pic is the intake; it is 8" and has an insect screen under the louvre plate. I will also put some sort of dust filter in there as well later on. It is situated under the deck on the sheltered side of the house. If I continue with the system I will move it out near the edge of the deck for easy cleaning.
The next shot is the ducting. At the bottom right in the duct line you will just make out the pump. About 2meters after the pump the 8" line splits into the two 6" lines and goes to the ground tubes on either side of the house.
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/floorduct2.jpg)
The next shot is the entry and exit set up. The silver duct is the air entry side. The air goes into the tube and out to the front of the block to come up through the floor on the other side of the house. The tubes are in the form of a big U; I needed to do this to get a decent length of pipe for the cooling run. The white padded duct is where the air from the opposite tube emerges from the system and enters the house through the floor register.
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/floorduct3.jpg)
The last shot is the floor register in the master bedroom. There is one the same in the other bedroom. If you have a look at the floor plan on the WebPages you will see how it is set out. On the index page there is also a conversion table you can down load if the metrics is a problem for you.
(http://users.tpg.com.au/jonsey/countryplans/floorduct.jpg)
Glenn the pump is pushing the air through the system but as you can see it would be easy enough to change that aroud if I want to.
Being the short memoried poor observer that I am, you probably already told me this was a U system. That would be the best with the high outside temps - continue recirculating the cooler underground tempered air. Thanks for taking time to bring us this information, Professor Jonesy. :)
Professor! Take it easy "Sweetie" ;D you'll give me a swelled head and my Akubra won't fit. That's not good, because, although I am somewhat vertically challenged I did at some stage, manage a spurt of growth that punched a hole in my roofing thatch. Therefore, I could end up with sunburn on my chrome dome. Besides, I wasn't smart enough to figure out that a 6" pipe was just not going to cut the mustard on a 40-degree day. ;)
Dagnabit. Now she's gonna haf to pay. >:(
;D ;D ;D ::)
We've got him now Sassy, need any more shelves done? ;D
I'm already working on them. >:(
As a matter of fact... I was just showing him an area that would make a nice little pantry! :)
That's the go but you need to be careful not to side track him with to many endearments. And whatever you do don't, mention bobcats or he'll be off digging another room. ;D
That's it --- I'm off to drive the Bobcat. :)
While you're on it mate, you could nip up to Johns and get me a scoop of that snow and ice. It's hot down here, over 40 degree's and it's only 11 am. The air con has been on since about 8 and I am not going to move to far from it. Therefore, you have my undivided attention until I can find out where Mrs. goanna jonesy has hidden the beanbag. ;D
Jonsey, that reads like pretty good performance on the system. Bet a bit of tweaking will have it doing all it needs.
Is your atmosphere dry enough so that you could just spray water into the ductwork and get the extra cooling required?
I was looking at Daddymem & Mommymem's blog when all of a sudden Glenn pops out of his recliner, runs outside & starts driving the bobcat! :o He wasn't gone but a couple minutes... I asked him what in the world he was doing, he said "moving the bobcat so you can clean up the driveway!" I hadn't been keeping up with the latest news postings between you & him! ;)
Ah, yes, the endearments... ;)
JRR, I have thought of maybe using some CELDEK PAD and a bit of water much like an evaporative air system. However, I think that this system properly sized would work fine as an air conditioner even in the peak heat events down here. In fact the mate that I have been working with is impressed enough with it to consider putting one of his own in. He is an air-conditioning specialist so he should be able to work out the size of the system needed. I am also thinking of maybe digging up mine and increasing the size of the tubes, it's no problem for me to do this. The humidity down here is low most of the time.
People in Australia want ice water. Didn't you just call me Sweetie?, Jonesy :-/
Bruce is going to kick us off of his thread but I think we have kept up with his topic just by showing him it gets a bit crazy around here and looking back through the thread I think there are lessons here too.
Just lay off the Sweetie crap, and maybe I'll go get that ice water. :)
No Mate, I wouldn't call you sweetie, it was JRR that made me do it. ;D Send the Ice water quick you big handscomb teddy bear. ;D
I don't recall you ever seeing me in my birthday suit. :-/
I must warn you, Jonsey - sometimes Glenn can be passive-aggressive... ;)
I've found the beanbag so I'm out of here before an angry bobcat flattens me. ;D
Catch you later , Jonesy -- I'm burning steaks in our Round Oak wood stove right now. :)
Jonsey:
Glenn's mole approach to housing... get a bobcat and dig a new room, would seem to make very good sense in a hot, sun baked climate. Are there examples in the downunder world?
There was a building, a suite of rooms really, that was built underground in Fresno, CA perhaps 50 years ago. All rooms opened into an open air courtyard that was also dug out. The air in the courtyard was conditioned by fountains and was very pleasant without mechanical air conditioning.
"To make something with lots of money, that is easy. But to make
something out of nothing--that now, is something!"
Baldassare Forestiere
They state that the site was about 10 acres and 3 levels.
This must be the one you mean, John. I drilled the well there.
http://www.forestiere-historicalcenter.com/index.html
(http://www.forestiere-historicalcenter.com/sitebuilder/images/gardens_060-198x135.jpg)
(http://www.forestiere-historicalcenter.com/sitebuilder/images/70590030-120x191.jpg)
That's what I was thinking of. I've not seen it myself but I had pictures in my head. I actually like my head pictures better - they would involve machinery and sod roofs rather than the arches that Forestiere built by hand.
Here are other links to the Forestiere Underground Gardens:
• Overview. (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:jtayhmwdYy8J:historicfresno.org/nrhp/forest.htm+Forestiere+Underground+Gardens&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3)
• Images. (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Forestiere%20Underground%20Gardens&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi)
• Coober Pedy in Australia. (http://radio.weblogs.com/0119080/stories/2003/05/30/galleryLivingDownUnder.html)
Jonesy just spent time underground in Coober Pedy.
Forestiere had a mule to help. He also had a nice old one lunger engine of some kind to run a pump. I tried to deal the grandsons out of the engine - didn't get too far.
There are fruit trees -orchard and grapes - garden area on the area above ground. Trees planted below ground poke up through holes to daylight. Rain water is handled by drywells that were originally dug by hand.
Coober Pedy looks like a fascinating place. Being an old rockhound I have seen lots of opal that came from there but I never really looked to see what the place was like. Glenn, I think you need one of those roadhead excavators for your next project. That looks like a high maintenance piece of equipment. The water table must be fairly shallow at Coober Pedy if they can drill below it to dump their septic blackwater. Here typical wells are 600-1000'. Plenty of filtration before the wastewater effluent ever reaches the water table. Anyway, very interesting.
I've already been considering modifying a stump grinder or something -- expensive stuff. :-/
Hey yall, I can get crazy too - a little scotch will get me started. But it's a little early in the day for that right now.
Jonsey, that's some good info on the tube performance. It looks like your crawlspace is open to the world. If there's much of a breeze, the temp and humidity will migrate toward the outside ambient - that's likely to affect system efficiency. Air comming into the house from the tubes must displace an equal amount of air from inside. A tube from a warm inside area leading out would encourage the warmest inside air to be exhausted
Heat transfer is a function of surface contact - an additional tube running in parallel would likely be better/cheaper/easier than single larger tubes. Moist soil would also be a better thermal conductor than dry soil.
Looking forward to more performance data as you get the system tuned to your environment and preferences.
Just hearing Coober Pedy brings to mind my friend Steven Newman. He's a fellow travel writer and 20 years ago he spent 4 years walking around the world....literally. After dealing with the crush of humanity that was India and Southeast Asia he arrived in Australia at Darwin and proceeded to walk down the Great Stuart for the next year.
He spent some time in C.P. and he has a great story about being given an Opal and then losing it, then backtracking several kilometers and finding it again with some help.
It's detailed in his book Worldwalk. Better yet hop on over to http://theworldwalker.com and check out his stories. Been wanting to visit C.P. ever since.
Julian
Jonesy,
I'm somewhat familiar with "Celdek". Use to have their Florida location make special runs of fibreglass media to be used in automobile spray booth airsupplys. Fibreglass media is more resistive to mold, but costs an "air and leg" compared to cellulose media (though less effective, per inch of exposure, in putting water in the air). If you get the spray booth humidity high enough, you have a chance to get a "wet look" paint finish even using low volatile enamels.
I worked (most everything except painting) in the paint department of a big truck manufacturer for years. Painters may have had cleaner air. Don't remember Celdek, but there were filters in the sanding booths that had to be disposed of as hazardous waste (N.B., we were not required to wear dust masks). And IIRC water running under the gratings in the paint booths.
ok, NOW this is starting to look like thread drift ;)
Anybody done any gunsmithing lately???
You're such a friendly guy, Bruce -- they just kinda got carried away.
About the most gunsmithing I did was to put a screw in the end of my 22 where the sight fell off so I could aim and hit something.
My uncle used to load his own bullets for the 30-06. We would sight them in each deer season. I was about 9 when we were working on the old homestead remodel and shooting was a little family side activity at that time of year. After shooting for a bit, I said, "Hey uncle Mandeville, I'm a better shot than you"
He said, "If you don't shut the hell up you won't get to shoot again." He was cool like that. :) He expected us to cuss him back out too. He's the one I refer to as my old dead uncle.
Hows that for thread drift, Bruce?
If this thread stayed on topic it would be the only one in the forum. What was the topic anyway? And who in the heck is Bruce? Oh yeah, now I remember. Welcome to the forum Bruce! I think you are going to like it here. There is no doubt in my mind that you are going to fit right in.
I don't know how much of this was a sales pitch but,
A paint guy came to my shop with a cutaway from several types of filters showing how the best filters money can buy does not get all of the toxins...That you need fresh air on the guys in the paint booth to make sure they are not breathing in the chemicals.
As for the toxic waste....I believe that....Look on the side of a can for automotive paint....Primer, Thinner etc...
Do a search on the internet and you will see some of the nastiest chemicals on the planet are mixed together to make paint.....They removed the lead....But it one of those "Lesser Evils" kind of victories.
Many spraybooths have two sets of filters: one set for the fresh air coming in, another set to catch overspray in the exhaust air stream. The exhaust filters prevent overspray build-up on exhaust fans and ducts. The used exhaust filters would certainly be treated as a hazardous material waste. Larger spraybooths also incorporate waterfalls or pools to catch overspray.
Modern high voltage spray systems have eliminated tons of overspray waste by improving transfer efficiency.
Its still a nasty business.
Seems since the overspray is the same thing as what is on our vehicles, then we are all driving around in metal boxes encased in hazardous waste.
Sorry Bruce -- had to get us back off track. :-/
You could look at it that way. But as the paint cures (cross-links) the paint is more difficult to dilute ... by ground water, etc. So the paint is no longer "harzardous" ... unless it swats you doing 70mph or so.
Most of the truly evil stuff leaves the coating in the paint oven--if you have a paint oven.
Those with paint ovens are using very high solids paints--IIRC have to go on hot, plus a trip through the oven. They are the guys who have high enough production to be seriously polluting the air--even though at one stage, they only air they really really had to keep clean was in the paint booths proper, even though the painters were all using air-supply respirators. Not the prep booths, not the outside where the exhaust from the big fans swirled down. (At various stages I worked in prep booths, and outside where if the wind was was from the wrong directiion I ended up in the doctor's office the next day ;) )
I was suprised to see home-use powder-coat kits, and a heat gun to use them with in the store (Lowes or Home Depot) the other day.
OK after it's cured is true of the foam-type insulations as well.
Just joined from France, so hello all!
This pipe system that you're all talking about on this thread, is this like a 'Canadian Puit' system - it's what it's known as in France ... placing pipes outside at a depth of 2m (sorry no good in inches!)
Sorry the picture is all in French, maybe someone has an English one that they know of ...
KirAlet
Welcome to the forum KirAlet. What part of France? Sassy and I made a speedy tour of France in 2001.
Two meters is about 7 feet. Looks like the cool tubes are about 70 feet long with a 1 to 2% slope toward the basement and the condensate drain in the basement - I didn't translate the words but think I got it right.