Well I have installed the last window this weekend and I now can start running the wires in my tiny 12'x12 cabin with lofted space.
I have no clue about electricity and would have my father in-law help me run the wires and so on.
I used MountainDon's calculator (spreadsheet doc) and it shows that I need 1700 watts a week - this is a weekend cabin. My system will power: six cfl bulbs (all are 19watts beside one 23att bulb for outside), RV Pump -shurflo park model, small lcd TV, tv streamer and hard drive, chest conversion fridge, and random laptop/tools/and what not charging.
I really wish to have a simple system as I am not very savvy with electricity to say the least. I wish I could just send Don my credit card info and have him order all of my equipment for me... d*
I will go to my cabin next weekend (13th) so I have a week and a half to figure out my system and then go to the cabin and run the wires and all. If I can also have the solar up and running - great, but I mainly want to finish running and connecting the outlets and so on. I'll build an outdoor shed thing for the solar equipment and will use my generator (honda 2000) to charge my system if for some reason I didn't have enough joice when I come up.
I am sure I will need to provide more info to receive good guidance and I will provide any info needed to help with giving me advice.
In general, how do I wire the cabin for solar? should I use special wires or is it like wiring a regular house?
Nothing? :-[
If you are planning to run only AC power from an inverter or the genny, then wire it in a standard AC manner. If there is no inspection / code then just figure out where you need receptacles and where you need light fixtures where you need switches.
Plan to place the AC service panel outside (weather proof type) as you don't have a lot of wall space inside to give up. 15 amp circuits are 14-2 wire; 20 amp = 12-2 wire. You don';t need a lot of circuits in a small cabin, but splitting them up means that if a breaker does trip the others still work.
IF you are running lines for DC power use (lights, whatever), then the wiring is similar but you need to watch the length of run to avoid too much voltage drop with the low 12 VDC power supply. Switches meant for AC household use will burn out at some point when used on DC circuits. If the current draw is low it may take quite a while for that to be a problem.
1700 watts a week; I take that to mean 1700 watt-hours as by itself the term watts doesn't tell the whole story. Is that figured on just a weekend? Or seven days actual use? Seven days = 250 a day approx, but figured on only two days of use that is 850 a day.
If you saved the XLS spreadsheet and want to email it to me I'll look at it. But I'm only in town till this Sunday if our plans work out correctly.
I just had an epiphany.. Many inverters use power as they sit there waiting to fulfil some demand. Really good ones have a standby feature when they quietly wait watching for a demand. Then they turn on. That saves idle power. I don't think I took that into account when the planner is aiming for a smallish system. With actual loads being less than 500 watt hours a day the idling load of some inverters can add up to a fair amount of extra power needed.
Look at the specs for an inverter or two that is on your list of items to consider. As long as the idle power is low it won't make a large difference to the battery capacity needed, nor to the PV array size. But that should be considered.
On our larger system the inverter idle load is low compared to all the real loads. Plus we use a standby and that reduces inverter losses to almost negligible. That' is easier and less cluttered in the end than using power strips all over the place.
To make best use of that we also wired in a lot of switched outlets, so we could easily disconnect the microwave or TV when we wanted them to be truly off. No phantom loads allowed in our place.
Thanks Don.
I only had time now to respond. I will try to find a good 'general' article about solar with battery system to understand the mechanics better. What is your email? I will be glad to send you the spreadsheet.
I know that DC for light is more efficient but I really rather have a simple system unless it makes a big difference. What amp should I use? You said either 15 or 20. I think that cost wise - in such small cabin: it won't be a big difference but I am so clueless about electricity that I do not know if these choices comes with additional costs.. for example - bigger inverter and such.
I do think that I might expand this cabin in the far future....
And yes - no inspection will be done to the system.
So I run AC wires (regular home depot ones?) into a panel box and then I need to set up the solar system (battery bank, charge controller, inverter, and so on..)
Right?
I will be in the cabin next weekend
You may not be getting much feedback here because it seems like you are embarking on a task that, if done improperly, can cause great harm, seemingly without having done your homework. Reading an article can get you started but is not really enough to get you up to speed.
Two great resources to gain the big picture and details are:
Wiring Simplified, by H.P. Richter, W.C. Schwan, and F.P. Hartwell.
Covers the AC side of your system.
http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Simplified-Based-National-Electrical/dp/0971977976/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373676046&sr=1-1&keywords=Wiring+Simplified
Photovoltaics: Design and Installation Manual, by Solar Energy International
Covers the DC side of your system.
http://www.amazon.com/Photovoltaics-Installation-Solar-Energy-International/dp/0865715203/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373676097&sr=1-1&keywords=Photovoltaics%3A+Design+and+Installation+Manual
Both are well written, start with the basics and cover much of what you need to know to install a safe, if not code compliant, cabin electrical system. Libraries often have these.
Another forum with some good information for you would be the Arizona Wind and Sun Solar Electric Power Discussion Forum:
http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/forum.php
I hope you can take a little time with this material before just diving in, lest you regret it later and have to redo, or at worst, have an injury or fire.
hpinson makes several excellent points.
First a big concern with electrical is safety. The book Wiring Simplified is a great resource. I have used various editions over the years as the code evolves. Taking time to learn will pay dividends down the road. You will likely get more comments on plans drawn and posted than a simple call for 'tell me what to do'. Take a step by step methodical approach. What circuits are needed and for what, and so on. Draw it out on a paper floor plan. Note that 15 amp circuits usually use 14-2 'romex' ire. 20 amp use 12-2. The numbers 12 or 14 refer to the wire gauge (diameter). 14-2 has a black and a white insulated wire and a bare copper wire used as the ground. Unless you plan on a large load like a big air conditioner you most likely only need a couple or three 15 amp circuits. 12-2 wire does cost more than 14-2 and the receptacles are different too.
Your system has two sections, the normal house 120 V AC part and the solar section. The house part is just like a normal house with the exception of you most likely will not have any 240 VAC just 120 VAC.
For the solar side the AZ Wind Sun forum hpinson mentioned is a good solar forum. Some very good people on board there. I would be happy to help, to look at the solar worksheet... email me at don.cpforum@gmail.com Be warned I have been in and out all summer and will do the disappearing act again Sunday for maybe 2 weeks. Once we get into late August I'll be around more. Be glad to help all I can, but my attendance is sporadic over the summer.
You can wire the AC part of the cabin and you the Honda 2000i to begin with. A temporary hoo\kup can be wired directly into a service panel. Plug the other end into the generator. When the solar equipment has be picked then the connection of the solar and the generator can be worked out. Inverters that are called inverter / chargers make connecting the solar stuff and the genrator to the cabin AC mains easier and simpler. They do cost more but have some advantages.
You can find a lot of opinions on how to set up the electrical for a small cabin. There are those who advocate doing DC for lights, etc. I believe that makes the system more complicated than necessary. I like AC only if there is to be modern conveniences like TV, stereos, phone chargers and so on. I also make effort to do everything according to what the NEC calls for as when done that way it should be safe for you and your visitors.
Google "John Wiles solar". He is the senior research engineer at the Southwest Technology Development Institute here in NM. Or he may be retired or partially so by now. He has authored many articles and papers on solar PV since the '90's and has lived in a solely PV powered home for 15+ years. He is my PV Guru. :)
FYI, something that is in that book I believe... Volts x Amps = Watts
EG 120 volts x 15 amps = 1800 watts. Almost the maximum continuous output of the Hoinda you have. So a 15 amp circuit is all that would be needed based on the generator output.
Conversely if you have something that has a label that reads, 120 VAC, 1000 watts....
Watts / Volts = Amps.... 1000 / 120 = 8.33 Amps.
hpinson-
You can rest assured - I am not only very concerned about safety but I am one that does homework diligently. Heck! I usually over plan things if anything and ask a million questions. Thanks for the book references - I will look into that. Like I mentioned, my father in law, an engineer who has a lot of experience and knowledge about wiring (but not PV), will be helping me with wiring it... In fact - I will just tell him what I want and where and then become the guy who hands him what he needs.
Don -
I will send you the file asap. Safety wise - I want to be as safe as possible. I don't mind even going beyond code.
I think I will run AC because you said that it is recommended if I plan on using a tv, laptop, and other electronics - which I do plan to do. I don't think I will run an AC but maybe in the far future... Worst case I will just run a tiny one directly off the generator although I quickly looked at 5000btu acs and they take about 5amps while the 8000btu take a little over 7amps... Doesn't seem like much and definitely not hard on the generator.
Then beside the 'simple' AC wiring of receptacles and light/light switches - the only thing that I have inside the cabin that I am not sure if I should wire differently is the water pump. I intend to use the same one that you (don) use because I read that it is super energy efficient unless there is a new/better pump out there that you recommend or if this pump does not fit my 'simple' ac aspirations. I am talking about the SHURflo 2088-492-444 Park Model Fresh Water Pump
Do I need to do anything special to wire this pump? It will run off an inner water tank (again, the same exact layout that you have: outdoor cistern and indoor tank).
Also, I hope that once you see my spreadsheet, and understand my intentions, you can give me a list of what I need to buy so I can start buying things for my PV system...
Check this thread too -- it is relevant (similar system), and I really like how John has drawn what he proposes in a graphic (or on paper) and posted that for comment. It really helps you put the puzzle together, and we, who might comment, can see what you have in mind. You can even draw something on paper and photograph that with a phone and post here.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12964.msg171615;boardseen#new
I made a simple diagram that shows my water and electric plan.
I will make a more detailed electric plan so I can also get some input on it.
As you can see - the water going back to the cistern is my 'emptying' pipes to when I am finished my cabin business.
I am missing a main shut off on my panel and I will also have a shut off for the panels.
Can someone show how do I properly ground it as well?
(https://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/ubgone/cabin/cabinwaterandpowerplan_zps2ce3f4ae.png) (https://s258.photobucket.com/user/ubgone/media/cabin/cabinwaterandpowerplan_zps2ce3f4ae.png.html)