I was thinking of installing some Electric baseboard as a suplement to the wood stove at my camp. I thought it would be a good option in the bedroom as it is the farthest room from the stove. Has anyone used this type of heat and how did it work out?
That's what I used for backup to my woodstove in my house. It's tough to beat for the price. I only used it for about a week last winter when I was sealing my concrete floors and had the woodstove outside. Otherwise the wood stove has handled it without a problem. I'll have it on again though end of January when I leave for a week.
Alan
it can be a pretty good option especially if electricity is cheap in your area. 45 bucks for a 240 volt 1500 watt unit. pair that with a 17 dollar thermostat, some wire and a breaker and you are good to go. I just put a setup like that in my shed.
Radiant electric heat panels on the ceiling might be a better option , but sure , for part time heat electric can be a good choice.
This is the outfit we deal with
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Island-Green-Heating/81792939612?ref=ts&fref=ts
At our place we use a radiator type space heater with an outlet thermostat.
http://www.pexsupply.com/Lux-PSP300-5-2-Programmable-Outlet-Thermostat-Heating-Cooling-9547000-p?gclid=CJ74q8eArLQCFY9DMgodOgUAmQ (http://www.pexsupply.com/Lux-PSP300-5-2-Programmable-Outlet-Thermostat-Heating-Cooling-9547000-p?gclid=CJ74q8eArLQCFY9DMgodOgUAmQ)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/World-Marketing-7-Fin-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Heater/13141908 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/World-Marketing-7-Fin-Oil-Filled-Radiant-Heater/13141908)
We like this method because the heaters can be put away when needed, or moved should you want to change a room layout.
I've lived in three company houses, for a total of 10 years, where electric baseboards were our ONLY source of heat. (Mighty frustrating when the power blows, btw)
Except for afore-mentioned power outages, I really liked them. They take longer to warm up a space than blown heat, like a furnace, but once the area is at a comfortable temp, it stays that way. I also liked being able to keep the heat down/off in little used rooms like the guest bedroom.
That's what we're putting in our new house; a wood stove and electric baseboards.
Electric resistance heat is nearly 100% efficient---almost every bit of electricity used ends up as heat. However, heat pump systems can produce four times the heat for the same electricity---by concentrating heatfrom elsewhere, like a refridgerator in reverse. There are a number of smaller one roon systems like this http://reviews.younits.com/product-reviews/Ductless-Mini-Split-Systems/Single-Zone-1-Room/Wall-Mounted-Heat-Pump/Fujitsu/p/1320-12RLS-Wall-Ductless-Air-Conditioner-Heat-Pump-25-SEER-12000-BTU-1-Ton.html
They cost quite a bit more, and their efficiency declines quickly in very cold places. It wouldn't be hard to do a cost comparison to see how long one would take to pay for itself
QuoteElectric resistance heat is nearly 100% efficient---almost every bit of electricity used ends up as heat.
The nearly 100% efficiency is true as far as what is passing through your meter. But not counted in that is the efficiency at the point of electrical generation. Typical efficiency of natural gas fueled electrical generation facilities runs at about 33%. What you pay by the meter on the wall takes those losses into account and are not considered when the power company tries to sell you on the efficiecy of electrical heating. That efficiency may be getting better, but likely has a long way to go. Cleaner than coal though. There are now gas furnaces that reach over 98% efficiency. Carrier has some, other makers probably do too.
I don't know how you compare efficiencies when you start looking at electrical generation by hydro, nuclear, wind, PV....
Electric resistance heat (whatever the type of heater) can be a good choice in a wood heated home for remote rooms. There the heaters act as chill chasers and for short term warm ups.
We lived with such a heating system for 28 years in our house (around 2000 sf total). The bills were managable in our mild climate but might be excessive in more severe climates or where electricity is expensive.
Recently we got tired of the chopping, stacking, moving of wood heat and installed a mini-split (ductless) heat pump for the general house heating - the job the stove still does in power outages. Here is the link to our unit: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11964.msg153818#msg153818
The cost of our mini split will payback quickly in electrical and wood cost savings, but this unit may not be as appropriate in other climates.
Absolutely correct---that 100% efficiency only starts where it enters the room. I know of no circumstances where btu/hr is more cost effective through resistive heating than it is through directly burning hydrocarbons. Even a small direct vent wall heater hooked up to a propane tank will be far more efficient. Every place I've built has a gravity wall furnace that works even when the power's out, and they are a great supplement to wood heat. But if someone doesn't want to deal with propane and just wants to heat with electricity, a heat pump will be far more efficient than a baseboard heater, especially in a milder climate. With unlimited funds, the ground source heat pumps are awesome---much better heat transfer than an air to air model, for both heating and cooling. Any place that has temperature extremes would be well served by the ground source heat pump systems. (As a side note, I wish there were refrigerators that had an integrated heat sink running through the concrete foundation. You could even divert it to run under a living area in the winter. Transferring the heat from inside the fridge right into the area around the fridge never made sense to me)
I don't know if they still make them, but we had a house with a room that needed heat and we found a portable baseboard heater - about 8' long that you just plug into an outlet. It had fluid in that heats up and retains heat for a while - temp adjustable. You can move them anywhere you want and it was pretty handy -- did the trick on cold nights.
"Electric resistance heat is nearly 100% efficient---almost every bit of electricity used ends up as heat. However, heat pump systems can produce four times the heat for the same electricity"
awsome you just solved the worlds power issues
100% in 400% out !
every power system works at less than 100%- there is always losses in power conversion even in the most expencive systems
especially where there are multiple systems involved- circulation pump- distribution fan - cooling fan outside- frictional losses in the fluid pipes etc etc.
Now can a 220V 20amp heat pump produce more heat than a 110v 15 amp baseboard heater
yes
With the fans can it circulate the heat in the room better
yes
Power in V's actual usable heat out - thats up for debate as far as I'm concerned ! 8)
But feel free to educate me- I am still up in the air for backup- baseline heating in my project house.
I was heading for propane - as i hate full air systems - and water radiant heat systems will have issues when we are not there - or we have to heat for the whole winter - when we only use it for a month
(re-writing with a shorter answer) Propane gravity wall furnace----the least efficient ones convert 78% of the fuel into interior heat. Some central heat units are rated 96%. Same fuel burned at a powerplant to run your baseboard---only 30%. So, electric heaters are both the most efficient (100% of the energy put in does what the appliance is for) and the least efficient (comparing dollars spent to run unit /BTU's produced)
Electric heaters are cheap, no maintenance, easy to install, safe, and silent. They might make sense if they are seldom used.
I don't know anything about heat pumps, except I have never been in a home or an office that utilized heat pump(s), where I was comfortable...either way too hot or way too cold. Just seemed they were never adjusted well, or big enough to service the space, or whatever...but never comfortable. >:(
I know what you mean----Hotel rooms always feel stuffy to me. I like heaters to blow warm air, heat pumps warm the air a few degrees above ambient so if you put your 98.6 degree hand in front of it, it feels like it's blowing cold air. My inner caveman wants flames. When I bought the gravity wall furnace for the latest project, I was tempted to get the Williams one with a 'fireplace look' http://www.amazon.com/Williams-3509622-6-Fireplace-Top-Vent-Furnace/dp/images/B00389KTB0 (there's a window, so you see the flames) but couldn't justify the extra $$$$, especially since we use primarily wood heat and the furnace is a back-up. If the wall furnace were my only source of heat I'd get that one so you get some light, too
Was wondering how safe the electric baseboards are. I was thinking of using some in the cabin I'm building. Will have minisplit heat pumps for general heating/cooling but wanted to put a small electric baseboard in each bathroom and a longer one in the main room. They would just be used in the coldest part of winter to keep everything from freezing while away and the minisplits are off. I guess it worries me a little to have these humming along while no one is in the cabin.
Quote from: UK4X4 on December 21, 2012, 09:18:37 PM
Power in V's actual usable heat out - thats up for debate as far as I'm concerned ! 8)
But feel free to educate me- I am still up in the air for backup- baseline heating in my project house.
Heat strips convert electricity to heat. You will get 3.415 BTU/Watt all day, every day.
Heat pumps collect heat from an existing source so the efficiency varies with the amount of heat available from your source. High efficiency ground source units can collect 20+ BTU per watt, typical air source units get around 11 BTU/watt at 50 degrees, by zero degrees you are back to heat strip efficiency levels.
Hope that helps
Good summary Rob_O.
Market2523: Baseboards have a good safety record and modern units have high temp cutoffs that make them even more fail safe such as when they might have bedding piled on them. Oil filled units are a good choice for smoother quieter heat. Of course baseboards (and the HP) won't be doing much good in a prolonged power outage.
o.k., so which are more efficient/cost effective - electric baseboard heaters or wall heaters? :-\
We have a good woodstove & our own wood, so that will be our real heat source, but the county building code says that can't be our primary heat source. So we have to have something else - propane furnace or electric heat of some sort. And we are running out of money, like much of the rest of the world.
thank you
How big a space to heat?
Any idea on the BTU requirement, or electric furnace watts for that space?
(1000 watts = 3412 BTU or 5000 BTU = 1465 watts)
If there are separated rooms perhaps electric baseboards in each room would be better than one central heater/furnace?
In your comparison between electric wall heaters vs electric baseboard heaters the efficiency will be the same. And installed costs are similar - lower than most other heating options. Wall heaters have fans so move the heated air faster. Baseboards are quieter and may be a better choice in bedrooms. Your supplier should be able to help you size and place the units. Think about furniture placement in the room.
Our living space on main floor is 1160 sq feet, mostly open. Of that area, bedroom is 232 sq ft. So I am guessing one wall heater for the bedroom, a small one in the bathroom, 2 in the living/dining/kitchen area.
Going for wall heaters rather than baseboard (which seem to be cheaper) because of our big dog. Like every other short haired dog I know, our American Bulldog loves to stretch out in front of a heat source, & all that dog hair can shorten the life of almost anything electrical.
Thanks for the expert information!
I'm thinking about putting electric baseboard heat in my builder's cottage mainly to satisfy the building code requirements. They are cheap to purchase and easy to install myself to get me past the inspection hurdle. I expect they'll do okay for some heat when i'm too lazy to use the woodstove, or in the "shoulder" season when it's really not cold enough to build a fire, but a little heat would be nice.
I've had natural gas wall heaters before, and they work very well. Those were nice to have something to back up to to get warm quickly when coming in from the cold. Of course here in the south we don't deal with the kind of cold that some of you contend with ... until this week, anyways!
Peace,
Ray
QuoteI've had natural gas wall heaters before, and they work very well.
They do. But make sure to go with the old fashioned VENTED ones, not ventless. They emit a LOT of water vapor.
We lived in a house with those as a secondary heat source and it was molding the west side of the house. Literally.
Have you considered in-floor electric? It's very safe and very nice!
I was in Home depot looking at baseboard heaters and they had a 110 volt portable unit. Can anyone tell me if I go that route will it cost more to run this unit than to install a 240 volt baseboard?
The unit was $140.00 for a 5' piece and once I buy the baseboard unit, the wire to run it, and the circuit breaker I would be close to the $140.00
Watts are watts, voltage does not matter to the electric meter. However, it does make a difference with the hardware; wire, breakers etc. You didn't indicate the wattage, but with 12 gauge wire, 120 VAC you are limited to 20 amps or about 2400 watts per wire run from the 20 amp 120 VAC breaker.