So after quite some time of looking at a lot of those cabin kits you can buy i decided if I just sat down and spent a little bit of time i could design a nice cabin I know I would love. I have spent a bit of time using Google sketch-up and have come up with my dream. Any and all comments, questions and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. The left side is the building built piece by piece, the one on the left kind of a finished look. (I have decided not to go with the french front doors and some of the windows have been moved or taken out.) Also the roof will be extended outwards like the finished cabin to the right looks like.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/cabin1pic2.jpg)
Looks nice. I like the windows.
A few comments.
If this is 20ft wide and there are no loads in the great room area other than the floor 5 piers across the building is probably overkill.
Also it doesn't look like a ridgebeam. If so, then you need rafter ties.
Wow. Nice work, and nice design.
Really nice. It looks like the cabin built by metolent. Love all the windows!
Quote from: Squirl on October 06, 2011, 09:06:03 AM
Looks nice. I like the windows.
A few comments.
If this is 20ft wide and there are no loads in the great room area other than the floor 5 piers across the building is probably overkill.
Also it doesn't look like a ridgebeam. If so, then you need rafter ties.
How many piers should i look at doing...3?and should the back still have 5 because of the second story? it is a ridgebeam...or does the roof have to go over the beam like in the image below?
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/cabin1pic5.jpg)
For the rafter ties do they simply sit under the beam to support it or is there a different size gap i should use?
(http://www.ibeams.co.za/images/08.jpg)
Quote from: mogie01 on October 06, 2011, 12:00:31 PM
Really nice. It looks like the cabin built by metolent. Love all the windows!
Wow, metolent's cabin is very similar. I saw similar designs on a lot of large cabin/lodge kits and kind of pieced a lot of what i liked, im sure he did somewhat the same lol
just a side view. The colored blocks are simply pieces to represent furniture so i can get a better understanding of the space and whatnot.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/cabin1pic3.jpg)
Main floor floorplan/layout. The room sizes were just estimates, of course they are smaller because of the framework and the kitchen was made bigger, not my call ;) thus making the dining area smaller and prob now a nook size area for a small table. Also the fireplace will most likely be electric, mostly for show, Texas does not get all that cold lol.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/cabin1floor1.jpg)
Second floor, the bathroom had to be moved around a bit and its prob a little bit cramped the way it is now but it wouldnt bother me too much, also the WIC had to be scaled down a tad. other than that its a pretty accurate floor-plan.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/cabin1floor2.jpg)
The picture you posted is of collar ties not rafter ties. They aren't there to support the beam, they are there to prevent joist up lift.
The picture looks like it is too small for a ridge beam, especially one that will span 15 (?) ft. It looks more like a ridge board (2x).
With most ridge beams I see the joist framed over the beam. I believe you would need some type of simpson hanger to use them from the beam.
The 3 vs. 5 depends on sizing and spacing of floor joists. If you are going with 2x4s space 24" O/C, then 5 are needed. The larger or closer together the joists the less piers are needed midspan. With I joists or 2x12's 12" O/C you could go with 2, except what carries the load from the ridge beam.
Also the rafters are cut flush with the wall. This makes it difficult to add a soffit vent for venting.
Is this in a code district? If so the stairs require 3 ft landings at the top and bottom. Also they do not meet the rise/run code specs.
I also did not see spots for posts for the ridge beam support on the floor plan. Have you done the calculations for the snow load and manufacturer guidelines for ridge beams? 15 ft is pretty long span.
i'm not seeing the entrance into the ground floor bedroom.
your first floor is similar to my own cabin, but on the ground floor, to save space i share the space at the foot of the stairs for three purposes: door to enter bedroom opens inward into bedroom from there, also door to the outside (actually to a mud room in may case) pierces the outside wall opening outward from there, plus of course it acts as the lower landing for the stairs. this means no additional floor area is needed elsewhere (which would have to be free of furniture) to allow space to approach those necessary elements.
in your plan, you can easily make an interior mud room (if you want one) by providing an interior door at the other end of the foyer, near the bathroom door.
you can save the expense of a small wall & a door by removing the wall separating the laundry/utility room from the foyer (thus the back door entrance is also your laundry room.) this would also probably allow the total space you have allocated for both those functions to be reduced, as your plan as shown must allow space to walk thru the foyer, and also space to walk around in the utility room, but by combining them you need only one such space.
Quote from: Squirl on October 06, 2011, 01:52:11 PM
The picture you posted is of collar ties not rafter ties. They aren't there to support the beam, they are there to prevent joist up lift.
The picture looks like it is too small for a ridge beam, especially one that will span 15 (?) ft. It looks more like a ridge board (2x).
With most ridge beams I see the joist framed over the beam. I believe you would need some type of simpson hanger to use them from the beam.
The 3 vs. 5 depends on sizing and spacing of floor joists. If you are going with 2x4s space 24" O/C, then 5 are needed. The larger or closer together the joists the less piers are needed midspan. With I joists or 2x12's 12" O/C you could go with 2, except what carries the load from the ridge beam.
Also the rafters are cut flush with the wall. This makes it difficult to add a soffit vent for venting.
Lets start with the top, it spans 17ft so what you are suggesting is to make it look like the picture below, and instead of a ridge board, make it wider to beam size say 4"-6"? Now on the 3vs5 i was planning on 2x4s at 24" O/C, so 5 is the answer there. Though i did see https://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj20/RIJake/The%20Last%20Resort/2011-08-26_15-18-02_630.jpg on the 20x30 Western Maine post and the I joists look really nice, i guess i can ponder that over. The rafters wont be cut flush with the wall, i havent gotten to extending them out in the model but i was thing about 1' of an overhang like imaged in the sided view to the right (though it is hard to see that from the one picture i have of it.)
(http://www.diychatroom.com/attachments/f19/20231d1273198742t-gap-between-ridge-beam-ridge-board-rafter-board-beam-3.jpg)
Quote from: lobster on October 06, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
i'm not seeing the entrance into the ground floor bedroom.
your first floor is similar to my own cabin, but on the ground floor, to save space i share the space at the foot of the stairs for three purposes: door to enter bedroom opens inward into bedroom from there, also door to the outside (actually to a mud room in may case) pierces the outside wall opening outward from there, plus of course it acts as the lower landing for the stairs. this means no additional floor area is needed elsewhere (which would have to be free of furniture) to allow space to approach those necessary elements.
in your plan, you can easily make an interior mud room (if you want one) by providing an interior door at the other end of the foyer, near the bathroom door.
you can save the expense of a small wall & a door by removing the wall separating the laundry/utility room from the foyer (thus the back door entrance is also your laundry room.) this would also probably allow the total space you have allocated for both those functions to be reduced, as your plan as shown must allow space to walk thru the foyer, and also space to walk around in the utility room, but by combining them you need only one such space.
There is an entrance there, pictured below. i guess i forgot to add them to the floor plans) but the plans came first sketchup came second so things were changed in one but not finalized in a new floor plan. I do really like the idea of removing the foyer wall between the utility room and foyer. That would be perfect because i was planning on just putting a stacked washer/dryer and the water heater in there, this way you will have that extra room to move about an not be so cramped in the little room.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/1stfloorbeddoor.jpg)
Quote from: Squirl on October 06, 2011, 02:12:11 PM
Is this in a code district? If so the stairs require 3 ft landings at the top and bottom. Also they do not meet the rise/run code specs.
I also did not see spots for posts for the ridge beam support on the floor plan. Have you done the calculations for the snow load and manufacturer guidelines for ridge beams? 15 ft is pretty long span.
I do not have the land yet, i am actively searching for some nearby most likely 5-10 acres, (looking for just the right one & right price) and I am not positive in what county/town it will be in, there are a lot of small towns nearby with great patches of land. Of course i can add ridge beam support in the plans if it is required (most likely will) say a post 10' in from the window side so its just behind the couch and not in the way of anything much. Snow load, this is texas...what is this snow you talk of? lol (not planning on being up in any mountains either, though after looking through some other peoples pictures, those views would be spectacular) Now the stairs i was already planning on making to 3', (my reasoning was mostly more closet space under the stairs, ;D) right now they are shown at 2'9" so another 3 inches wont interfere with the design nor will it come into contact with the front door and that will have the 3' landing in the middle there and at the top i was planning on adding a door there but if need be i can move the door in over between the WIC and stairs thus giving a 3'x 3' landing. The rise run shown is at rise 8" run 10", i was looking at some suggestions online before i designed them and found a site that said:
(RISE: the height of one stair in a staircase. This is the amount of vertical distance one moves when stepping from one stair onto the next. The rise should be between 5" and 7¾" with the ideal rise for a residence being 7")
(RUN: the horizontal distance of one stair. It is how far in, the stair goes which gives the amount of room for a persons foot. The run should be between 8¼" and 14". An intermediate run is 11". The stair tread is the RUN plus the nosing. Per most Building Codes, the tread should be between 9¼" and 14". An intermediate tread is 12".
Yes 8 is more than 7 but for some reason my head told me at the time boards are actually put in it would be different... no idea what i was thinking but i definitely could do 7 by 11 just would need to move the door over some. Or was that website completely bonkers?
I just want to say so far i have really appreciated this feedback, its definitely very helpful. Please keep it coming! [cool]
There was a really great link to stair designs somewhere around here, but when I'm looking for something I can never find it. I usually use 7 and 10 as my rough figure numbers. So If you are going up 8 ft you need two 36" landing areas and you would need 13 treads (96/7) which would be 130 (10x13) inches or 10 ft in addition to the 6 ft of landings which would be 16 linear feet of floor space, give or take a tread.
For the ridge beam 4"-6" would be clearer. There are some LVL beams for 1.5", but I have never seen them that size for a ridge beam to span 17'. I will leave sizing and span calculations for engineered beams to you and the engineers. 17' is off the code charts for 4-2x12's.
Speaking of beams, I noticed your windows don't have headers.
Quote from: Squirl on October 06, 2011, 05:39:09 PM
There was a really great link to stair designs somewhere around here, but when I'm looking for something I can never find it. I usually use 7 and 10 as my rough figure numbers. So If you are going up 8 ft you need two 36" landing areas and you would need 13 treads (96/7) which would be 130 (10x13) inches or 10 ft in addition to the 6 ft of landings which would be 16 linear feet of floor space, give or take a tread.
For the ridge beam 4"-6" would be clearer. There are some LVL beams for 1.5", but I have never seen them that size for a ridge beam to span 17'. I will leave sizing and span calculations for engineered beams to you and the engineers. 17' is off the code charts for 4-2x12's.
Speaking of beams, I noticed your windows don't have headers.
I see, well i suppose i could move the door frame over about a foot then extend the middle platform over 3ft and then the last remaining steps go back towards the kitchen kind of like the example below. So i have a 3'x 6' landing or 2 3' landings and that would cover the 16 linear feet of floor space. I have never built or designed stairs before, and i know getting it right for inspectors is important so this helps me a lot with the designing process. As for the window headers, i just wasn't sure if I was keeping the windows where they are yet or not and have moved them around like crazy since i started designing them ( you can see that simply from the two 3d models the windows dont match hardly at all lol) so i just kept the design pretty simple right now, they will definitely be added in the final draft.
(http://myhouse.designsoftware.com/myhouse/images/house_pic13.gif)
You could always add a bump-out for the laundry room.That would open it up a little bit.
(https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/Tinga_Wolvesbane/HouseSnip.png)
I was considering doing just that, but i have later plans for the foyer exit with a car port and possible balcony on top of that for a later date. (Though id have to figure out some kind of an entrance to such balcony lol)
So i found this neat little website that calculates stair dimensions depending on the rise and run you input plus the total height you need to achieve. http://www.blocklayer.com/stairs/stairseng.aspx
I input a total 8' rise, ideal rise 7" and ideal run 10". According to these calculations with the total Rise 8' , it would create, 13 Runs of 10" and 14 Rises of 6~27/32" at an angle of 34.4 degrees. Basically what squirl was talking about in an earlier post.
My question is why would there need to be 2 3'x3' landings and not just the one center one pictured in my 3d model?
Found it.
All you ever wanted to know about stairs.
http://www.stairways.org/Resources/Documents/2006%20Stair%20IRC%20SCREEN%20web%20download.pdf
I'm not 100% on the bottom landing part. I'm pretty sure it has to do with all landings, pathways and hallways have to be 3 ft wide. Therefore the bottom has to be 3 ft wide. I think it has to do with the fire code. I know I had it corrected by the building inspector on the entry stair case for my house. As you would be standing to turn to get on the stairs the downstairs would have a 2 ft wide path to turn to get up the stairs, essentially making it a 2 ft wide corridor. I don't understand the why of this if doors are allowed to be 30".
Nice tool.
Wow that is a great resource right there. Couple of comments on a few things i found such as:
"Exception: A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage,
provided a door does not swing over the stairs."
So as long as the door at the top of the stairs swings inwards into the room, that is fine.
I think this is the part you were speaking of squirl.
"The width of each landing shall not be less than the stairway served. Every landing shall have
a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel."
So having stairs with a 3'x6' center landing allows for both directions of travel to be 36inches (like the image depicted in an earlier post). Maybe add an inche or 2 (on the 6' side) between the stairs for indoor paneling and such.
Sounds good. Thanks for the tip on the exception.
It is also just good practice, imho. I don't know how many times you had to move, but moving a queen or king sized box spring up stairs and around a short corners is difficult and sometimes impossible. It opens up options on furniture you can put up stairs. I've had problems with this with really old houses when everything people owned was smaller or they just had less stuff.
... one reason why I like my one story home on a slab.
Believe me I have done my share of moving over the years lol and a queen size mattress has recently been involved (cant keep sleeping on my trusty futon anymore) lol. The way I hope to move the mattress is and eventually out (future add on plans) is to take down the railing of the stairs (and later put back up) to give it a lot more of an angle and slide in the mattress through the doorway, into the walk in closet and then back out into the bedroom. That was surely one thing I was thinking of when i designed the upstairs lol
Another note, I just downloaded the Texas Residential code on PDF, over 42mb at 597 pages :o. Might be a good lil' read d* But I did check that the section on stairways was exactly the same as the link you provided [cool]
If you could post the D/L link it could be useful to other Texans. Thanks.
Of course!
http://www.archive.org/details/gov.tx.residential
All i did to save it, easier than to have it completely load, was to open the PDF form on the left and then hit the save button right away so it will just save rather than having to load first. There is also other options for just text (no diagrams) or even to download to kindle! Gotta keep up with the times i suppose lol
Just to make the reading more fun, look into the law in TX that says there is no building official unless it is an incorporated area. Counties are specifically denied the ability to have building inspectors. There are state permits/inspectors if someone else builds your house but not if you do.
and probably when you go to try and sell your self-made home.... and how exactly would insurance roll into that, structural insurance lasts about 7-12 years right? so if you have no inspector, how would you be able to get that insurance? or would it just godly high premiums? I suppose I am going to have to look into that as well then.
My agent came out, looked over the house and wrote a policy. Houses are sold all the time without building inspector approvals.
No kidding, a lot different from Ohio then, when we sold our place up there we had 3-4 inspectors come out to check things over, granted we sold it to the relocation company and they wanted to make sure they aren't taking on too much risk but still. d*
God bless TX.
just highlights the reasons i left WI for TX
Texas, a couple of counties in Idaho, and just a handful of counties in TN are the only ones left in the country without permits, inspectors and impact fees. Idaho and TN had septic permits. TX, only some counties have septic permits (some are just too small to support a septic permit/inspector)
TX ended up being the last place left. We looked at a variety of states for relocation years ago.
God bless TX ;D
^^^ agreed, atleast we are finally getting some rain, it was gettin pretty bad there for a bit.
So I had some spare time this weekend and sat down to add window headers to my design and finalize a few other aspects while I have this rare time c*
Let me know if I overkilled it a bit or if you have any concerns.
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/window.jpg)
Re-Designed the stairs, to fit how I would like it, it will be 13 Runs of 9~1/2" and 14 Rises of 7~5/32". w/ a 3' wide path of travel (3'x6' landing)
(The image just shows it at 9~1/2" and 7.)
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/stairs2.jpg)
The window drawing needs some work, too much wood but not in the right places.
The king stud, 1 on each side, full height sole plate to top plate.
Jack stud, typically 1 per side up to 6' wide opening, unbroken from sole plate to bottom of header.
Cripples, on layout, plus I like 1 under each side of the sill, 1 trimmer per side up to the window top, i cripple per side up to the header.
Some guys like to double the sill as well to make nailing the casing trim easier.
How is this for an example/design?
(http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/window/new/window_framing_2xq.gif)
Designed
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/window3.jpg)
Normally I see it like don had said the jack stud (the stud supporting the header) straight down to the bottom and not broken by the sill.
Gotchya, so something like this then?
(http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/3os8h8jfjk55y/jgbxo9/framingwindowpref.png)
That is usually how I see it.
ya after seeing it, it makes alot of sense to have it built that way than the way I had it.
So I have a bit of a question.
With a basement like pictured below, that is only partially covered by soil, in an area where the soil is practically all clay, "Houston Black", would it be less prone to the shrinking and expanding soil movement from the various dry to wet months Texas has versus a fully covered basement? Or would it have no affect to the shifting clay material?
(http://www.utahmountains.com/graphics/SV66.jpg)
(https://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/jcbiehl/soil.jpg)
For clay soils (especially those that freeze) the key is to have good drainage material between the outside basement wall and the soil. This drainage material should be protected from silting up and have a footing drain to daylight. That way water can be carried away and the freezing clay will not be able to get a bite on the wall. There are combination insulation and drainage material panels that are used in Canada.
The height of the backfill doesn't make much difference except for where the freeze zone is.
Well its texas, so freezing is not something im too concerned with, my concern is the shrinking and expanding the soil has when it goes from being wet, to extremely dry. Where I am in texas we have about 7 days a year where it gets below freezing, and not all at the same time. I was planning on going from a post and beam foundation but I saw a lot of other buildings with the basements like the picture above and I really liked it. Its a thought, maybe only wishful thinking but I just want to figure out if with the type of soil I have in the area if a basement is even logical.
Quote from: jbiehl on October 20, 2011, 03:37:59 PM
I just want to figure out if with the type of soil I have in the area if a basement is even logical.
Local engineer
So I dug a bit deeper into my question and found a company nearby that deals with foundations, framing and inspections and they had this to say:
"For increased performance or where anticipated soils movements are particularly high, foundations may be suspended above the ground, isolated from the movement of the soil by waxed carton forms. Two common types of suspended foundations are the pier and beam and the carton form suspended slab. All suspended foundations are supported by piers."
So I suppose my original thoughts on the pier and beam foundation are what I am going to keep in my designs. With the proper maintenance, (keeping the correct soil moisture either with self watering or foundation system installed) I could go practically any route, pier and beam just seems most logical for this project. d*
Quote from: jbiehl on October 20, 2011, 11:04:56 PM
Two common types of suspended foundations are the pier and beam and the carton form suspended slab. All suspended foundations are supported by piers."
So I suppose my original thoughts on the pier and beam foundation are what I am going to keep in my designs. With the proper maintenance, (keeping the correct soil moisture either with self watering or foundation system installed) I could go practically any route, pier and beam just seems most logical for this project. d*
By pier and beam I think those guys mean something different than the typical pier and beam foundation commonly found here. ??? Or am I wrong on that? ??? Seems to me I recall something about the beams meaning poured concrete perimeter beams and I forget what else. Or I could be thinking of something else altogether.
This looks like it might be a good one for some info;
http://www.foundationperformance.org/projects/FPA-SC-01-0.pdf
Chances are they meean the type of piers you see.down on the beach houses. Huge timbers and sunk 20+ feet in the ground
we are all sand in my part of tx. But i have a 30' long spot of clay in my driveway. Its either hard as concrete or bottomless muck. I have put 4 loads of gravel in it over the last 5 yr and its still a mud.hole. The gravel just disappears as it gets pushed down into it. No way id want to build on that stuff unless it was on a solid slab
One of many of the engineered examples given in Don_P's link.
(https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/djmbucket/construction%20oddnends/gradebeam.jpg)
Quote from: Don_P on October 21, 2011, 07:26:15 AM
This looks like it might be a good one for some info;
http://www.foundationperformance.org/projects/FPA-SC-01-0.pdf
[cool] Thank You, ill be reading into this a lot more maybe later tonight but for the most part I am liking the "4.1.1.2 Structural Floor with Crawl Space and Deep Foundations" found on pages 9 & 10. For now I have got to run, more in tonight's post!
Quote from: MountainDon on October 20, 2011, 11:35:38 PM
By pier and beam I think those guys mean something different than the typical pier and beam foundation commonly found here. ??? Or am I wrong on that? ??? Seems to me I recall something about the beams meaning poured concrete perimeter beams and I forget what else. Or I could be thinking of something else altogether.
Pier and grade beam is often used around the hills in the bay area. I think you basically put a bunch reasonably deep concrete/rebar piers into the ground - think 12ft deep or something of that order - and skip the footings at the bottom. You're relying on the friction between the sides of the piers and the ground to hold them up. Then you connect them to each other with site-formed concrete beams at around grade level (but not supported by the ground). A big house can have many 10s of piers and a similar number of beams.
This isn't cheap - you can easily spend $100K on a foundation. But I think it's the technique of choice in some problem locations, especially hills.