On top of earlier this week it looks like today was a pretty bad day for most of OK, prayers going out to those affected and gentle nudge for those forum members to check in.
I have not heard from HGT :( last post I readof hers was 2 hours ago :(
I am very concerned.
Prayers sent Muldoon. Just waiting now.
Boy this has been a nasty spring. Even here, a bad storm just passed over me. Watches, warnings and sighted touchdowns all around us.
I can't imagine what Ok. is like.
We're still here but there's another big storm comming.
Quote from: ScottA on May 24, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
We're still here but there's another big storm comming.
Glad you're OK Scott.
I'm watching the storms on radar and it looks like the whole Eastern side of the state still has some battering on the way.
Yes, glad your well Scott.
Just read a post from HGT. She and her family as of now are doing fine.
All is well here. It went all around us on just about every side. We got some sideways rain and twisty wind, and some small hail, but it was over with pretty quick. Weird thing was that when it was raining so hard, this Go Fish card comes floating down in the midst of the wind like a feather on a gentle breeze. As soon as the storm passed, the girls ran out to see what it was or if it was someone's family picture, and it was a game card, presumably debris from one of the earlier tornadoes south of us. However, I did get some classic family video of the dog knocking middle daughter face first in the mudpuddle she was playing in right after the worst of the storm passed. :) Hope all of those in TX, AR, and MO who are getting it now are doing OK. Joplin is a sad, sad deal...
And by the way, I think the next major building project should be a storm cellar.
I was worried about the potential of storms, not having a storm cellar.
I sent my Wife, Daughters, and Brother to EL RENO of all places to escape the storm.
earlier in the day it was not in the severe path.
as soon as the got to the hotel, a tornado was on the ground a mile from them.
they were not harmed, Thank GOD!!!!
I'm still upset with myself over what i put them through.....
Sounds scary astidham, I was watching the live stream from kfor earlier today when they announced an F4 in El Reno. Glad to hear they are ok, and glad to see Scott and Homegrown pipe up as well.
A storm cellar is not really something I have thought about much, but it is on my mind tonight. I have heard in the past about people having concrete septic tanks buried with defined access for storms, I wonder what other DIY options may be available...
Interesting idea muldoon. My only concern is to make sure I was not trapped in one. Large debris on top could make it impossible for escape, I would think.
a local company installs them, shelter and all for $2500.00.
not a bad investment.
I think Glens whole house is a storm shelter.
Storm fizzled before it got to us. Just some wind and rain.
Glad everyone's ok - astidham, that must have been very scary for you & your family!
I don't know how our place would handle a bad tornado - there's parts that stick out of the ground... but we don't have them up here that I know of...
So good to see many familiar posters checking in from tornado areas. Been through a few in Illinois and North Carolina---they often came through after dark. i really hated/dreaded those----couldn't even look west to see the clouds gathering with that weird green light. In NC I was staying in a trailer park while working a project----really really hated that.
Even if you aren't a praying person, say one tonight for those folks---it won't hurt you at all.
RW
There's a line of severe storms bearing down on us in the Midwest tonight. Currently the line stretches from Jackson, MS to Chicago. Couple touchdowns reported already tonight and more expected.
We've been too close a few times for my comfort. Spent a night trying to hide a camper behind a sandhill in Nebraska as one stirred up the place we were staying. Luckily no tornado's in the past couple of weeks nearby but hail and trees down lately. It's easy to forget on a nice calm sunny day, these are the days you are designing your shelter for.
Quote from: muldoon on May 24, 2011, 10:04:37 PM
Sounds scary astidham, I was watching the live stream from kfor earlier today when they announced an F4 in El Reno. Glad to hear they are ok, and glad to see Scott and Homegrown pipe up as well.
A storm cellar is not really something I have thought about much, but it is on my mind tonight. I have heard in the past about people having concrete septic tanks buried with defined access for storms, I wonder what other DIY options may be available...
Concrete safe rooms are becoming more popular. With a little planning one could even adapt John's floorplan and building method to incorporate a FEMA-approved safe room.
In case you all missed it, Northern California had 4 official torrnados on Wednesday...one of which destroyed a two car garage! Mother Nature is tired of us on "her" planet.
Quote from: Danfish on May 26, 2011, 09:45:51 AM
In case you all missed it, Northern California had 4 official torrnados on Wednesday...one of which destroyed a two car garage! Mother Nature is tired of us on "her" planet.
Either that or someone else has figured out how to use tornados as a weapon.
Quote from: Danfish on May 26, 2011, 09:45:51 AM
In case you all missed it, Northern California had 4 official torrnados on Wednesday...one of which destroyed a two car garage! Mother Nature is tired of us on "her" planet.
I hear they did two million dollars worth of improvements! :P
You nailed it Scott. Practice makes perfect. What better place to practice than close to home? [noidea'
Due to my pilots training I have been watching these Frankenclouds for years yet most only call me crazy when I mention them.
Weather is like water. Throw a rock in a pond and the ripples go everywhere. Artificial clouds here shade the ground creating a low pressure area as it cools. High pressure from unsprayed areas rushes in to fill the low pressure area creating all kinds of weather anomalies. Haarp is likely capable of steering the jet stream by heating the Ionosphere. With practice they can make it do what they want.
Scott Stevens says they can measure the effects of their experiments with satellites with the grids you often see overhead such as this one at my worksite last week. California is covered with these grids.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemsafewaysky.jpg)
Look above the steel - normal clouds will form in the cool low pressure area below the grids of spreading aerosol trails.
QuoteWeather Warfare
"Others [terrorists] are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves... So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations...It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our [counterterrorism] efforts." Secretary of Defense William Cohen at an April 1997 counterterrorism conference sponsored by former Senator Sam Nunn.
http://weatherwars.info/
Scott knew enough about the fake weather and experimentation as a weatherman to research it for himself. He says we no longer see natural weather. You know that the weather service is now overseen by two levels of military.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html
Owning the weather by 2025. Forget the disclaimer - I think it is just a cover their ass note. They are doing what this paper states is a possible scenario. You don't own something and be good at it if you don't practice. Couple that with the elites desired depopulation of the world - (Georgia Guidestones ) and there you have another conspiracy... (RW - jump on that - would you?) :)
These are not normal clouds - note the evidence of ELF waves (HAARP) in the clouds. There were none like that in my weather studies.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/weathermod1.jpg)
Note the obvious spray lines in this pix besides the waves... Yu will see two bluer areas between spread sprays.
Hmm Second pix is not posting..... oh well - nobody can see it anyway... [ouch]
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/weathermod2.jpg)
OK ... now call me crazy and ignore it so you will feel better about it..... [waiting]
Quote from: muldoon on May 24, 2011, 10:04:37 PM
Sounds scary astidham, I was watching the live stream from kfor earlier today when they announced an F4 in El Reno. Glad to hear they are ok, and glad to see Scott and Homegrown pipe up as well.
A storm cellar is not really something I have thought about much, but it is on my mind tonight. I have heard in the past about people having concrete septic tanks buried with defined access for storms, I wonder what other DIY options may be available...
"The $50 and up Underground House" is as good and cheap as it gets.
www.undergroundhousing.com Our buddy, Mike Oehler.
"OK ... now call me crazy and ignore it so you will feel better about it..... "
OK Glenn, You Crazy!
You're right---I do feel better.
it was good for me.
Was it good for you too?
Fess Up Glenn, Global Warming is your doing isn't it? Both begin with a 'G'! Coincidence?
I think not!.........
It's so easy to get him started. ;D But seriously, maybe they do tamper with the weather. They have this sorta god complex thing going on.
Quote from: rwanders on May 27, 2011, 02:01:24 AM
"OK ... now call me crazy and ignore it so you will feel better about it..... "
OK Glenn, You Crazy!
You're right---I do feel better.
it was good for me.
Was it good for you too?
Fess Up Glenn, Global Warming is your doing isn't it? Both begin with a 'G'! Coincidence?
I think not!.........
You made my day, RW.... I am thoroughly satisfied and totally pleased...... [waiting]
There is no admission to this one by them. I had a friend check on it and he did get an explanation but it was no better than the story that they are not doing anything.
The elite stand to profit from carbon credits etc. and it is not beyond belief for them to be behind the spraying, creating a greenhouse effect to raise temperatures. Heat bounces back and forth between the clouds and earth and is trapped raising temperatures.
Odd that it is claimed to be natural but only happens in US allied or controlled countries.
A natural vapor trail is composed of ice crystals that are minute and dissipate or sublimate rapidly. A chemical spray trail spreads and covers the sky rather than dissipating. It is easy to tell what kind of a trail a plane is leaving.
Scott, whether it is their intent or not, their activities do effect the weather. The low pressure they artificially cause by shading the earth with their clouds causes low pressure that can cause tornadoes and thunder storms.
One reason a lot of people do not see it is that they only see the sky over them.
Suppose they shade much of the US causing it to cool (as they often do). High pressure created by the unshaded ocean and other land masses flows toward the US bringing moisture and counterclockwise spiraling wind as the high pressure enters the low pressure area and the warm high pressure air begins rising - that creates thunderstorms, hail or tornadoes depending on the instability of the system.
The greenhouse effect - some warming of the earth needs only to be relative - ie: shading producing cooling can still occur even though they are possibly raising global temps because the highs will be higher, for those who want to believe global warming.
Glenn,
In general I think you're crazy!
Love
Stinky
Should we cue up the Patsy Cline/Willie Nelson song?
I just keep seeing how others say he is crazy. I needed to make my declaration of Glenn's being crazy; However I just in general think he is crazy.
So, maybe a yes on that Patsy Cline song.....;)
fwiw I think Sassy is very brave!
Back to the topic, concerning extra cloud cover causing shifts in the weather patterns, I've got to wonder about Volcanic eruptions, especially the current one in Iceland and the previous larger eruptions.
As far as DIY storm shelters, after watching the weather.com program on above ground shelters, they had a reinforced metal container which withstood everything they threw at it. I wonder if a cargo container could be adapted? The example they showed had a 2 foot thick, reinforced concrete base, with heavy duty welded hold downs.
"The elite stand to profit from carbon credits etc. and it is not beyond belief for them to be behind the spraying, creating a greenhouse effect to raise temperatures. Heat bounces back and forth between the clouds and earth and is trapped raising temperatures."
Glenn, I am 68 years old and have seen those kinds of cloud formations for as long as i can remember Who knows though, the elite are so cunning they probably had advance knowledge 40 or 50 years ago of the profit potential in global warming from their secret alliance with the alien space ships hidden on the dark side of the moon. Too bad for them, the aliens didn't tell them carbon credits would not fly and if they did only some of the elite would profit, some would only get in on the added cost side of the ledger and they, using their alliance with the rival alien ships hiding in the rings of Saturn, used their hypno ray to make the carbon credit bill to fail in the Senate.
"Odd that it is claimed to be natural but only happens in US allied or controlled countries."
Really? Interesting assertion----got any proof of that? Amazing how those aliens and the elite can teach high level clouds riding jet streams at high speeds to recognize political boundaries. Maybe they use skyhooks to anchor them down.
"A natural vapor trail is composed of ice crystals that are minute and dissipate or sublimate rapidly. A chemical spray trail spreads and covers the sky rather than dissipating. It is easy to tell what kind of a trail a plane is leaving."
Clever elites! They even used those alien hypno rays to make us all forget the countless times we watched commercial jets and, oh yes, those masses of contrails seen over Europe and the Pacific during WWII spread across the skies as 1000 bomber missions were flown. Somehow, the hypno rays didn't affect me during my stint with the 19th Aviation Battalion----sorry they got to you though. They obviously got to the thousands of pilots who were seemingly unaware that the elite had smuggled vast supplies of the secret Trained Cloud Chemicals into civilian and military planes or perhaps they just bribed them all with global warming stock options to fly elaborate patterns and activate the sprayers. It would have been easy for the aliens to replace all the humans who maintain and load planes with alien avatars who look just like us. The human air traffic controllers were replaced with similar avatars by Ronald Reagan, a well known leading member of the elite, when he cleverly lured them into an illegal strike so he could fire them. There were a few other humans who did not fall under there powerful influence. One powerful traitor to the elite, Nick Begich, US Congressman from Alaska, was kidnapped along with another powerful Congressman, Hale Boggs of Louisiana who he had flipped from the elite conspiracy, by the aliens. They cleverly abducted them and the small plane and pilot while Begich was taking Boggs to blow the whistle on the plot. Want proof? Check the records, Begich, Boogs ,the Cessna 206 and it's pilot were never found despite a massive search----how convenient! One of Nick's sons, Nick Jr., carried on his father's brave resistance and after extensive research carried on from his basement hideout in Anchorage Alaska, finally exposed the the secret government/alien program known as HAARP in his well-known book. I can verify the truth of that---I often saw the younger Begich at work in his underwear and tinfoil hat in his basement room at the Begich family home a few blocks from mine on the east side of Anchorage. After a short period of media and late night talk show attention, the truth was again suppressed by his older brother Mark Begich who was bribed by the elite/alien plotters with a seat in the US Senate. This was cleverly done by enlisting co-conspirators in the Justice Department and the FBI to trump up false charges against the crusty old stubborn Senator Ted Stevens, a WWII pilot who knew too much about planes and high altitude conditions just before the election of 2010. Stevens was narrowly defeated by Begich and soon after the false charges were exposed. They had to dispose of Stevens who was threatening to expose the plotters so he was, "conveniently" killed in a mysterious plane crash------just like Nick Begich and Hale Boggs! And the other person who had revealed the truth about HAARP, Nick Jr has not been seen or heard from in Anchorage since---his brother, Senator (or is it alien avatar) Mark Begich never mentions his name----a strange and suspicious development! The old Begich family home was destroyed in a mysterious fire, along with all the original HARRP research files Nick Jr had hidden in his sock drawer in that famous basement room. Mark quickly moved to a new home on nearby Colgate Street in East Anchorage and denies any knowledge of his brother's whereabouts. He obviously knows more than he is willing to reveal. Added proof is demonstrated by a search of the card catalogs of the Library of Congress---Nick Jr's tell-all book is not there! a suspicious fact when everyone knows that library keeps a copy of every book ever printed in the US! When anyone presses the librarian for his book, they usually are quickly "interviewed" by odd looking men in dark glasses who refuse to produce official identification---if you doubt that, try and find someone who will admit they ever went there and requested it.
This whole story is common knowledge in Anchorage but, you will not find it written in the local newspapers. they all received visits from the men in dark glasses and the editions that did reveal these truths are missing from their files---just like the Library of Congress!
There are many secrets and strange tales in The Land of The Midnight Sun!
UPDATE: Recently many have noticed that skies in Alaska are often cloudy and old-timers have remarked that the winters don't seem as cold as they used to be. Is this not additional, undeniable proof that Alaska is the center of the elite/alien plot to control the world with contrails in the sky? Sightings of mysterious planes scattered across the vast reaches of Alaska where no airports or runways exist may be the final evidence of the existence of the vast hidden fleets of chemical spreading planes. Most of these planes appear to be remains of crashed bush planes to naive observers--they don't fool those aware of the elite/alien plot.
:)
WOW! That was fun!---now I understand why so many bloggers and internet posters spend so much time weaving a few facts with half-truths and pure fantasy. See if you can separate the truths from the fictions----a nice prize to the winning entry.
RW
Quote from: StinkerBell on May 27, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
Glenn,
In general I think you're crazy!
Love
Stinky
Thank you, Stinky, My love.
Quote from: OkieJohn2 on May 27, 2011, 01:05:30 PM
Back to the topic, concerning extra cloud cover causing shifts in the weather patterns, I've got to wonder about Volcanic eruptions, especially the current one in Iceland and the previous larger eruptions.
As far as DIY storm shelters, after watching the weather.com program on above ground shelters, they had a reinforced metal container which withstood everything they threw at it. I wonder if a cargo container could be adapted? The example they showed had a 2 foot thick, reinforced concrete base, with heavy duty welded hold downs.
No doubt about eruptions affecting the weather. A ripple in the weather there can affect weather pretty much everywhere in the world to some slight extent. Volcanoes can even make their own lightning.
http://news.discovery.com/earth/volcano-eruption-lightning.html
I think a container could work provided the massive hold downs were there. Lots of wind exposure.
Quote from: rwanders on May 27, 2011, 02:50:36 PM
:)
WOW! That was fun!---now I understand why so many bloggers and internet posters spend so much time weaving a few facts with half-truths and pure fantasy. See if you can separate the truths from the fictions----a nice prize to the winning entry.
RW
Thanks for all of the research RW. I hope Dr. Begich is OK. Last I saw of him was when Jesse Ventura interviewed him.... could you check it out? As an aside.... I often work in my underwear too so I know this must be true....right? [waiting]
Astidham, where do you live? We're NE of OKC and have been finding debris from the tornado around our property for several days now... Yesterday it was part of a dictionary, and today it was another book. El Reno was definitely NOT the place to be. One of my husband's coworkers lives over there and his next door neighbor's house was gone. His house is still standing, but the roof is gone.
Thankfully, it just seemed to skirt around us.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on May 27, 2011, 03:30:21 PM
Thanks for all of the research RW. I hope Dr. Begich is OK. Last I saw of him was when Jesse Ventura interviewed him.... could you check it out? As an aside.... I often work in my underwear too so I know this must be true....right? [waiting]
Jesse Ventura?----now there's a credible guy. We can all be confident he would never be involved with anything fake, would he?
The younger Begich?-----he's still trying to make a few bucks off his book? He must be getting desperate if he's trying to ride that donkey on Jesse's radio version of the supermarket checkout magazine rack.
Has Jesse located Elvis again lately? I think the last time he found him hiding in Mexico, one of Jesse's favorite spots----the beer and pot are cheaper there.
It might help refresh junior high school science class to look up cirrocumulus clouds.
This brings to my mind something St Augustine said about the dangers of naive literal interpretations that fly in the face of what a rational person can readily discern with his own faculties.
Quote from: rwanders on May 27, 2011, 05:56:53 PM
Jesse Ventura?----now there's a credible guy. We can all be confident he would never be involved with anything fake, would he?
The younger Begich?-----he's still trying to make a few bucks off his book? He must be getting desperate if he's trying to ride that donkey on Jesse's radio version of the supermarket checkout magazine rack.
Has Jesse located Elvis again lately? I think the last time he found him hiding in Mexico, one of Jesse's favorite spots----the beer and pot are cheaper there.
Jesse has to be credible. He was a politician.
Quote from: glenn kangiser on May 27, 2011, 09:44:41 PM
Jesse has to be credible. He was a politician.
[rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2]
c*
It's been fun riding some of these hobby horses but, didn't this thread start out as a serious concern about the terrible outbreak of tornadoes and our fears and hopes for the folks and our forum friends?
Some of us have strayed badly though I think a lot of it was inspired by relief over friends checking in unhurt and a reaction to the relieved stress.
We all need to remember the human suffering that seems to be a new way of life in tornado alley and keep the folks in our thoughts and prayers. Sassy and Stinkerbell always keep their feet firmly on that ground----been expecting them to pick one up and give us a kick in the butt any moment now.
RW, any weather tampering can cause an increase in the intensity of the weather and change how it affects different parts of the country or world. Even volcanoes could have a play in some of this --- who knows?
Quote from: Don_P on May 27, 2011, 08:38:27 PM
It might help refresh junior high school science class to look up cirrocumulus clouds.
This brings to my mind something St Augustine said about the dangers of naive literal interpretations that fly in the face of what a rational person can readily discern with his own faculties.
Kind of similar if not for the spray trails though the bottom picture and the cirrocumulous are generally more in rows of tufts.
Here is one that shows similar to the above clouds being made by planes. Note the obvious spreading trail sprayed earlier that looks similar to the cirrocumulous.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemtrailspreadingcirrocumuloussimilar.jpg)
and a few pix of what we put up with mostly before a weather change is due or should we say projected? In reality I only think that they are are modifying and increasing intensity of natural weather patterns, using their resources to see how they can affect it and give it a boost... like they did on the Ho Chi Minh trail.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemtrail1.jpg)
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemtrail2.jpg)
I am familiar with Tesla's experiments and the powers he felt his invention, that Haarp is based on had. He said it was too dangerous for man to have and destroyed his as I recall.
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemtrail3.jpg)
This goes on so much around here I often don't take pix of it anymore. Guess I'm getting to think it is normal like you guys do, eh?
(https://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy62/the_troglodyte/chemtrail4.jpg)
Quote from: rwanders on May 27, 2011, 09:49:37 PM
[rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2] [rofl2]
RW, you can't laugh at that .... that almost makes you agree with me.... and besides - I thought you said you came from a whole family of politicians.. You need to support them for the trustworthy people they are... not look at them as I do.... [ouch]
I believe this is what is needed. I am not sure but I think this is a
military container with armor. it weighs in at 20,000 lbs
and is 20' x8' x 9' tall
They probably can be had on governmentliquidations.com
However, be aware that dealing with this outfit is very tricky.
Our government at work.....
Bruce
https://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae205/firefoxm54a2/MV/milISObox.jpg
Glenn, those are all condensation trails and various other normal upper level clouds, your description of being followed by unstable weather is spot on, they are "instability clouds", weather predictors. More time spent studying weather from reputable sources might help. I've often wondered what great things Tesla could have accomplished if he been able to resolve his mental difficulties.
Back on track;
Less than 10% of tornados are F4 and F5, approximately 70% of tornados pack winds of less than 112 mph and yet cause the bulk of the damage... they just don't make splashy headlines. The myth that tornados are unsurviveable by wood construction is to some extent just that. If a building is well constructed, on a solid foundation to which it is well connected, if you provide a continuous load path to a strong and well connected roof and keep it on the building and keep the building on its' foundation, you're probably going to make it through most of what mother nature can throw at you. Remember alot of the width of the damage trail you see in pictures of high intensity tornados was caused by lesser winds, a well constructed house can survive an indirect strike by a high intensity storm. A safe room is a great thing to have, one tornado went directly overhead in our sleep, only to touch down a few miles away... An exterior shelter wouldn't have helped, building a safe house is the first priority.
There are more resource links at the end of this document;
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/plan/prevent/bestpractices/resshelter_bkgrdr.pdf
Glenn you are crazy..........As a fox 8)
Thanks, TT.
Don, normal condensation trails do not expand and spread covering the sky. Once the ice crystals form making the trail normally behind the plane there is nothing else to cause them to build. Planes with normal condensation trails will have the trail dissipate behind them as the ice sublimates and goes directly to a gaseous state, completely disappearing.
The chemicals, aluminum, barium and ethylene dibromide found in the persistent vapor trails that spread and cover the sky increase rather than decrease in cover as a normal vapor or contrail does. The oily looking areas in some of the trails have been tested and found to be EDB. I am going from studies that can be found published by researchers. Sorry it is only from memory. Researching the causes of the trails will bring you to the studies.
Maybe you can convince these guys it's normal... they work with it daily.
http://aircrap.org/wright-patterson-air-traffic-controllers-vindicate-chemtrail-conspiracy-theorists/331057/
This is an article out of MIT that was written before the Chinese Olympics in 2008... I just posted some excerpts but the whole article is interesting.
Weather Engineering in China
How the Chinese plan to modify the weather in Beijing during the Olympics, using supercomputers and artillery.
* Tuesday, March 25, 2008
* By Mark Williams
To prevent rain over the roofless 91,000-seat Olympic stadium that Beijing natives have nicknamed the Bird's Nest, the city's branch of the national Weather Modification Office--itself a department of the larger China Meteorological Administration--has prepared a three-stage program for the 2008 Olympics this August.
First, Beijing's Weather Modification Office will track the region's weather via satellites, planes, radar, and an IBM p575 supercomputer, purchased from Big Blue last year, that executes 9.8 trillion floating point operations per second. It models an area of 44,000 square kilometers (17,000 square miles) accurately enough to generate hourly forecasts for each kilometer.
Then, using their two aircraft and an array of twenty artillery and rocket-launch sites around Beijing, the city's weather engineers will shoot and spray silver iodide and dry ice into incoming clouds that are still far enough away that their rain can be flushed out before they reach the stadium.
Unsurprisingly, therefore, China's national weather-engineering program is also the world's largest, with approximately 1,500 weather modification professionals directing 30 aircraft and their crews, as well as 37,000 part-time workers--mostly peasant farmers--who are on call to blast away at clouds with 7,113 anti-aircraft guns and 4,991 rocket launchers.
http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20463/?a=f
This is a good description of how contrails form and why sometimes they dissapate rapidly and sometimes they spread and linger. It all revolves around temperature and relative humidity aloft.
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html
Sassy is describing cloud seeding, I'm not exactly sure what to say there except, yup, it can work under the right conditions. A mighty expensive way to make rain... or not. If it could be done reliably I'm sure the farm lobby would be all over it. Do notice they were propagating clouds using a substance that sublimes an awful lot better than water ice. It's all just physical science happening in front of our eyes. I know we like to be able to explain to ourselves the way things work, it is in our nature.
Don, add to the mix the fact that the grids are perfectly laid out as in computer generated patterns rather than any flight paths and you can see that they are done for a specific purpose.
You would think flight controllers would not be concerned if they were normal. I spent a lot of time working with flight controllers on IFR flights and training. They are very familiar with what is normal and what is not.
I'll check out your link.
I can buy some of that, Don but the ones we have around here often spread and cover the entire sky. They are not light cover as the ones in their study.
You are right about cloud seeding... My flight instructor did that for a living, over the Sierras. Not the same animal though.
This guy has a point and it is one of my main peeves. My solar panels and garden are affected by the jet generated clouds no matter what they are made of.
Farm Wars -Fighting to Save the Family Farm!
Chemtrail Alert: Joe Marman Suing Shasta County Air Quality Mgt District – You Can Join!
(http://farmwars.info/?p=6101)
Per your linked report I just read, Don, they can shade the ground causing low pressure which then spawns tornadoes in Oklahoma. A pebble in the pond produces ripples at the other side. A Tsunami in Japan produces a tidal wave in California. Weather is very much like water and I use that likeness to explain clear air turbulence to people who have not experienced it before. Low pressure created under these jet generated clouds does affect the weather in Oklahoma. No question.
If we have a problem seeing chemtrails, then lets look at stopping the jet produced clouds that cause low pressure that cause tornadoes. I agree with the guy above.
And we're off after another windmill, that is easy :D Careful who's driving this bus.
Here's another, and yes there is more fodder in there if you are bent on it, at least it is closer to reality :D;
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz
Quote from: Don_P on May 29, 2011, 12:10:10 AM
And we're off after another windmill, that is easy :D Careful who's driving this bus.
Here's another, and yes there is more fodder in there if you are bent on it, at least it is closer to reality :D;
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz
Not a credible source in this case since they are from the Federal Government who also controls the Air Force and other agencies who are indicated by studies to be involved in the spraying. The above is a cover story.
The are also the ones in charge of "Owning the Weather By 2025" A disclaimer on the report does not mean they are not doing it. They have a bad track record of being dishonest and hiding things from their citizens.
Most of the science agencies sole support stems from the government and of course they will not bite the hand that feeds them with paychecks, study grants etc. Not credible sources. Independent sources without a need to provide cover stories are more credible.
I suppose these pilots are all making fake chemtrails to trick us along with their conspiring photographers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEOod0LFDtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psdg3OAw_a8&feature=related
990,000 people wondered enough to look at the above video.
Maybe this is where the 350 Billion the Pentagramgon lost went... Gotta be expensive.
Don P, I understand the difference between cloud seeding to make it rain & chemtrails ::)
Here's an article from NASA http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/20jun_tmaclouds/ Where they are experimenting w/spraying trimethylaluminum (TMA) in the ionosphere.
It's pretty late so I will post more - yes, I'm sure you are eagerly waiting ;D
Quote from: glenn kangiser on May 29, 2011, 02:29:39 AM
I suppose these pilots are all making fake chemtrails to trick us along with their conspiring photographers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEOod0LFDtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psdg3OAw_a8&feature=related
990,000 people wondered enough to look at the above video.
Maybe this is where the 350 Billion the Pentagramgon lost went... Gotta be expensive.
Glenn. surely you are not as gullible as this in your business or personal (real) life. You Tube videos couldn't be more undependable. All 990.000 only indicates how many are either gulls or merely fans of internet silliness or bored and surfing.
If you really believe they are "chemtrails" then every commercial or military jet must have secret tanks and all pilots US and/or foreign must be part of this fantasy. If you are really pilot, you know this is patent nonsense.
Glenn,
You Crazy!
You Pulling Our Legs You Wild N Crazy Guy!
rofl [rofl2] rofl [rofl2]
http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft.asp?tn=N8147Z
Doesn't take that many planes - tankers and lots of fuel money which our military have. It is not necessarily secret from the military pilots who are doing it - likely confidential is all with a reasonable mission cover story.
I have my own videos similar to the Youtube ones (ground only) so I don't have a question about them seeing the trails.
If you insist though - lets forget the chemical testing many have done. Lets just get our clear blue skies back rather than this spreading jet pollution we see way too often.
'Lets just get our clear blue skies back rather than this spreading jet pollution we see way too often."
Glenn, I do agree that the high altitude jet contrails are becoming an issue since the traffic has and is growing so fast. I don't believe it's an indication of a conspiracy but, can accept there are questions that need to be settled. Essentially, do they constitute a threat and if so, what needs or can be done to mitigate that threat?
Glenn, I think trying to frame this kind of human generated problem as being due to some arcane conspiracy only serves to make any serious discussion about causes and solutions more difficult. It makes it too easy for the public to dismiss any attempt to address it as "just another bunch of nut cases peddling nonsense".
Sometimes, no harm is done, everybody has a good laugh and life goes on---other times, real problems are tarred with that brush and things only continue to fester.
I think they do constitute a threat simply from the loss of our solar power, food growing ability and increased health problems in areas where there is so much pollution from it, though I am not ready to accept the sane peoples explanation and drop the other evidence.
If the sane people need to have something they can believe before they can get up in arms about it then lets see them work on it from a pollution standpoint.
I keep having this thought that you are still on a government payroll to support their conspiracy, RW.... :)
Quote from: glenn kangiser on May 29, 2011, 11:36:11 PM
I think they do constitute a threat simply from the loss of our solar power, food growing ability and increased health problems in areas where there is so much pollution from it, though I am not ready to accept the sane peoples explanation and drop the other evidence.
If the sane people need to have something they can believe before they can get up in arms about it then lets see them work on it from a pollution standpoint.
I keep having this thought that you are still on a government payroll to support their conspiracy, RW.... :)
n*
If i was being paid I should be doing a better job and on top of that they haven't sent me a paycheck since April of 1969 when I separated from the Army.
You're doing just fine though... :)
My boss did tell me a Mrs Kangiser was sending in much better reports and I have been replaced by her----could she be related to you? I think I am being reassigned to Windpower's dossier.
RW
rofl rofl rofl
Quote from: rwanders on May 30, 2011, 05:21:19 PM
My boss did tell me a Mrs Kangiser was sending in much better reports and I have been replaced by her----could she be related to you? I think I am being reassigned to Windpower's dossier.
RW
Hmmmm RW... [noidea'
I wonder if she's really here on assignment.... she actually is a Fed you know......
Possibly I better watch out and see if I can catch her in some under-cover ops..... [waiting]
Note to self... must support Windpower..... :)
I can't say the government doesn't do crazy or spooky stuff, but if one ever looks at old photos, the ones from before the the modern jet era, there are similar cloud patterns documented. There is an entire book on weird cloud patterns that was published in the 1930's. Photography is older than modern aviation. On the other hand, when was the dust bowl? Just saying... ;D ;D ;D
:)
NM,remember-----Glenn is Crazy! and, He has help on this forum.
Good post NM, too bad rationality rolls off some folks backs like ducks and water.
RW
The problem I have with most conspiracies is they depend on the government to be smart and keep a secret.
Quote from: Native_NM on May 31, 2011, 04:38:35 PM
The problem I have with most conspiracies is they depend on the government to be smart and keep a secret.
You got that right, NM.
The problem with most conspiracy theorists is they depend on us to believe that they are so smart their allegations aren't subject to the normal rules of logic and that piling unsupported assertions on top of each other somehow builds a defensible conclusion.
There was even a whole school of philosophers built on those techniques during the golden age of ancient Greece. They were known as the Sophists and their logically fallacious arguments are known to us as Sophistry---the art of constructing arguments that appear to be logically rigorous but, depend on rhetorical and semantic distortions to disguise unsupported assertions and gaps in logic.
Politicians and con men of all stripes are often enthusiastic practitioners of this ancient art form. A good sophist can make those unfamiliar with their techniques believe it when they "prove" that black is white regardless of what your lying eyes tell you.
I suspect our President has at least a few practitioners of the ancient art writing his speeches---he isn't that good on his own when he has to speak extemporaneously.
Maybe they were using pterodactyls to spray in AD 1300 to force the Vikings out!?
http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/us/96034/coke.bp%3B_ylt=AqO4iGBIedtBcEA.WGdH_qKx.tw4%3B_ylu=X3oDMTI3YzZlaGZqBGNjb2RlA210cHpidQRjcG9zAzIEY3NlYwNtb2JpbGUtdGQEaW50bAN1cwRwa2cDaWQtOTYwMzQEcG9zAzIEc2xrA2ltYWdl?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.intl=US&.lang=en&.tsrc=yahoo
Gov - not necessarily smart... devious --- always threatening insiders with court martial or other hideous punishments. My FIL would not talk about his classified assignments clear to his death- I know lots of veterans and dead veterans who still won't reveal the secrets they swore not to tell. Lots of power to keep things silent - threats of serious punishment -- look at the USS Liberty. Those boys had to remain silent about Israel blowing them to smithereens. Just released from their oaths recently as I recall. I wouldn't expect the spray pilots to talk.... btw... . they did us good today to and more weather on its way east.
Obviously there were cases of spraying at other times , but not to the extent there is today. Vietnam was one - tons of agent orange - they had the technology back then - what is stopping them from using it now ---- scruples and love of American citizens... like the love they showed in the Tuskegee experiments or the Nevada Bomb tests?
Sorry but it was so obvious today I just can't back off of this. There were normal jets flying above the spreading trails today leaving no expanding trail but low pressure formed and brought in a lot of unexpected rain and low clouds as well as adding tomorrow for even more rain.
I know - you already explained it to me... but I'm not really buying it.
I guess it must be that normal jet contrail problem we are talking about bringing in that low pressure. Guess we better try to get rid of that normal pollution causing full cloud cover, eh? :)
Sorry I'm unable to participate in the discussion better.....working...... [ouch]
NBC chemtrail report - questions - no positive conclusions but more questioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTI2Ynr9rxM&feature=share