I'm starting my first 'big' project at home.. 'in training' to build the cabin some day!
I had someone install new siding, new windows and replacement windows on half of my house last year. I'm going to finish it.
I am trying to plan the work right now and I have some sequencing questions:
Goal: Reside (hardie) the east side of my house, replace 1 existing window and install 3 new ones.
I'll be working weekends and a couple week days here and there.
My question is... when in the process should I put in the new windows relative to the other house wrap, siding steps? I'm trying to be conservative so I dont end up with too much exposed to the elements for any period of time.
1) remove old siding
2) put on new house wrap (cut and tape back around exisiting windows)
3) remove interior sheet rock, frame in new opening (leaving exterior untouched)
4) cut thru exterior (build rite and house wrap)
5) install new windows (inc. insulate, drywall, vapor barrier etc)
6) install replacement windows
7) apply siding
8) other finish detail (paint, caulk etc)
I guess my question is... can i / should I prep the interior parts of the window work (remove drywall, frame in new RO) before I start the exterior work... or after I rip off old and install house wrap. So when its time to actually cut the hole in the house, I am well prepared and not a ton of work before drying it in.
thanks!
I'd say do the inside work first , remove D/W , install headers at new locations. Then when you can put together a couple of days rip off the old siding on one side of the place, cut the RO's out , tear out any old windows on that wall / fill in any window holes that might be going away then repaper the walls , set the windows , properly detail the now set windows with the proper tape for the wrap you're using , then side when you are ready. The house could stay open to the weather once the wrap is installed for a few weeks if need be. Of course all the wraps have a exposure time , so lets not get to crazy / lazy and leave the wrap exposed for months.
thanks for the reply PEG688!
makes perfect sense... thanks much! (i can get started now too... while its rainy spring).
ok... so general work is sequenced. Windows are ordered! (ouch).
Can someone point me to some good reading on how to size headers? I'm going to be installing several new windows (new holes in the wall) and I need to read up on how to 'design' them.
I'll be installing one window next to another existing window. (40" wide x 64" tall)
I'll be installing two 4' wide x 18" high windows
I''ll be installing two 3' wide x 5' high (ish) windows on 2nd floor above a new 8' wide patio door.
a couple other replacement that are straight foward.
specific questions:
1) how do i size the headers for any of the openings
2) do i need to worry about the 2nd floor windows (2 3' windows 2' appart... 8' total) above an 8' wide patio on the 1st floor.
not asking for someone to do the work for me... i want to learn how to do it. where can/should I read!
The windows are in loading bearing walls I assume?
I, myself, do not know of any instruction books on this. There are the tables for headers in the IRC (page 138 in the MN IRC (http://ftp.resource.org/codes.gov/mn_residential.pdf) I keep refering to.) Indiscriminate use could lead one into trouble when one floor is over another, if a jack stud in the upper floor wall was positioned over a lower floor header, for example. That could require the lower floor header and jack studs to be up-sized and/or increased in number to properly (safely) carry the loads down. Looking at the big picture may also involve determining whether or not the wall with the new holes in it is still structurally sound for things like shear forces.
If you'd like to post a drawing illustrating the relationship of the upper floor windows to the lower floor windows and doors that would help anyone with advice.
If unsure I don't think it would hurt anything to oversize, a couple of 2 by 12's should take care of about any situation and at not too much extra cost.
I dont mind just going big if its safe. It is a load bearing wall.
here is a (terrible) laptop sketch of the relationship of the windows over the new sliding glass door...
the door is 8' wide
the 3 foot wide windows will be centered above the patio door and spaced 2' appart, so that the sides line up..
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/windowsketch.jpg)
How wide is the house at that point?
What is the snow load (PSF)?
Are the floor joists supported in the center or are they clear spans?
Are the walls 2x4 or 2x6 framed?
this is more or less what the load paths would look like. What's the main floor sit on?
(https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/djmbucket/oddsnends01/windowsketch1.jpg)
Quote from: MountainDon on May 12, 2011, 10:33:04 PM
How wide is the house at that point?
What is the snow load (PSF)?
Are the floor joists supported in the center or are they clear spans?
Are the walls 2x4 or 2x6 framed?
1) The side of the house you are looking at is about 34' long. its prob. 22' the other dimension. I'll measure tonite when I get home.
2) Snow load for my county, according to the state, is 50 psf. (http://www.dli.mn.gov/CCLD/PDF/bc_map_snowload.pdf - I'm in hennepin county, just below the line on the east side of the state.
3) The joists are 2 x ? (at least 8, i think, will measure) and are supported in the middle of the house on a load bearing wall. To that point, I also want to put a beam in the house, in that load bearing wall, that matches the slidng glass door in size and placement.
4) Main floor sits on a full height basement - blocks.
I thought i drew an funny smiley face... you made it even better :)
The patio door will be a new door cut into the wall? ???
Look at Table R502.5(1), page 138 in the MN IRC referenced above. The first column lists the various combinations of weights that could be bearing on the item in question. The second column lists built up header sizes. Column 9 & 10 are for a building with a width of 20 feet. Column 9 is the first column in the 50 psf snow load section. Column 9 is the maximum span any one of those headers can support, when supporting all the items listed in column one. Column 10 is the number of jack studs required to support each end of that header. Columns 11 & 12 are for a 28 foot wide building, 50 psf snow. Read the footnotes to see if there is anything important there.
The fact that the support studs for the upper floor windows intersect the lower patio door header MAY involve increasing the size of the lower header; maybe even require more jack studs. I am only GUESSING at that. I'm no engineer, however this might be a case where an engineers advice is needed in order to get a suitable safe header into that wall. ???
Again like Mtn D asked are the walls 2x4 or 2x6?
If you can get a double 2 x 12 header above the windows and 8-0 patio door on a two story house you'll be fine , or a 4 x12 .
I'd use as larger, up to 2x12, header as possible , on both floors , I'd recommend a continuous header / one header for the two windows on the 2nd floor keeping the two floors stacked / one over another.
You'll need two trimmer on each end on any header starting at 8-0 and up , but the two levels, stacked with 2 x12 headers should be over kill.
If the floor system is standard framing , not engineered "I" joist , you're not required to install "squash blocks" which amount to solid blocking at the point load locations , directly under the double trimmers , on both floors. Even with standard joists no harm can come from adding the solid blocking in the joist bays.
Also I'm not sure how far out of the corner you are going to be and what you may be doing to the shear / racking strength of that wall . I'm not sure if it's sheathed with plywood, solid boards / ship lap boards / builders board / 1 x4 diagonal bracing etc .
What wind / seismic/ other zone you live in etc.
All those things are "players" in the walls ultimate strength.
I also am not a engineer and Don P. may have more to add.
Good luck.
I'm not an engineer either so take it for what it's worth. I can fill in a bit more on what we have so far from my understanding of the codebook end.
I like PEG's idea of bridging over the header below with a full length header above. This is a situation PEte warned about when using the codebook tables and MD's caution in the last paragraph of his post. If the upper windows were framed with seperate headers the inside jacks (trimmers) would point load the lower header at midspan. If we take a load and spread it out uniformly along a beam it produces a given bending force. If that same load is all piled in the middle of span it produces twice the bending force on the header. This condition would actually produce a blend of both those conditions, a uniform floor load with roof point loads from above. The codebook tables were set up using uniform loads.
Using PEG's solution we can look this up prescriptively in the tables. I'm looking at table 502.5(1)
Use the 50 psf columns. You are allowed to interpolate between building widths. The upper header would use the top of the table "Supporting roof and ceiling". It looks like the upper 8' span could be handled by a double 2x12 or triple 2x10, notice it requires 2 jacks under each end. A single jack at each end would likely crush into the header.
For the lower header to keep it conservative I would use the next table "Supporting roof, ceiling and one center bearing floor". Not an exact fit, this puts the roof loaf on the lower header which we should have already taken care of. We could check deeper, an engineer could probably shave this down, but this would keep it prescriptive. A triple 2x12 or four ply 2x10 on double jacks works by the table.
Quote from: Don_P on May 14, 2011, 08:33:45 AM
A triple 2x12 or four ply 2x10 on double jacks works by the table.
What if the walls are 2x4? I think a triple or four ply header would be over kill and the insulation one could add with a double header ( nailed / spiked together with 1/2 CDX sandwiched between the 2 by's) would be better use of the space IF the walls are 2x6.
It's only a 8'-0" RO , very do-able with a double 2x12 or 4x12 solid header I'd think . If we where to stretch out to a 9'-0" opening we may start to have to look at added thickness and or width or move to a ParaLam , LVL or other higher strength member
I size beam dimensions by either consulting the code tables or by doing the math. The table was not a perfect fit but keeps it prescriptive. If I do the math my inspector will require that the design be stamped.
Let's do some math and see if the lower header can be smaller. I'm going to assume the house is 24' wide, center bearing floor. This means the exterior header will support half of the 12' width between exterior wall and center bearing... 6'. I'll use 40 psf for the floor live load and 10 psf for the dead load. 6' x 50PSF= 300 lbs/foot of beam. The total load on the beam would be 300 plf x 8lf of beam= 2400 lbs. The proposed header in the center bearing wall would support twice this load if there is no roof load from above on it, only floor, 96 square feet x 50 psf= 4800 lbs.
The awc's WSDD manual publishes safe load tables. We're getting a little further out but I would still consider this a prescriptive table. A single 2x10 with Fb of 1400 or better and E of 1.1 or better will do the job. That's a fairly nice 2x10 in dougfir or SYP. A single 2x12 Fb>1000 and E>.64 also is listed, that is about anything. This takes care of the beam strength but doesn't address the end support.
PEte emailed this last night, and I agree, I missed a few other things.
QuoteIf you need double trimmers (jack studs) at the jambs of the second story opening, you likely do need some extra vert. blocking under them in the second fl. joist depth to match the 3 stud area above. Then you need like vert. blocking btwn. the double top pl. and the first fl. header. And, then if the jambs are actually stacked, how many trimmers do you need in the first fl. wall, and what vert. blocking under them and onto the foundation sill plate? Hint, the jamb loads are additive as you move down. Remember...., Continuous Load Path to the Foundation for Concentrated Loads!
Quote from: Don_P on May 15, 2011, 07:55:45 AM
I size beam dimensions by either consulting the code tables or by doing the math. The table was not a perfect fit but keeps it prescriptive. If I do the math my inspector will require that the design be stamped.
Let's do some math and see if the lower header can be smaller. I'm going to assume the house is 24' wide, center bearing floor. This means the exterior header will support half of the 12' width between exterior wall and center bearing... 6'. I'll use 40 psf for the floor live load and 10 psf for the dead load. 6' x 50PSF= 300 lbs/foot of beam. The total load on the beam would be 300 plf x 8lf of beam= 2400 lbs. The proposed header in the center bearing wall would support twice this load if there is no roof load from above on it, only floor, 96 square feet x 50 psf= 4800 lbs.
The awc's WSDD manual publishes safe load tables. We're getting a little further out but I would still consider this a prescriptive table. A single 2x10 with Fb of 1400 or better and E of 1.1 or better will do the job. That's a fairly nice 2x10 in dougfir or SYP. A single 2x12 Fb>1000 and E>.64 also is listed, that is about anything. This takes care of the beam strength but doesn't address the end support.
PEte emailed this last night, and I agree, I missed a few other things.
Can you put your post in plain English?
I'm not trying to be a PITA here but what you typed above tells me nothing. Are you talking about a single 2x10 DF / SYP #2 or better , NOT a doubled up header? What that OVE framing?? What a disaster / dis-service / joke that "new aged" framing system is . IMO YMMV.
The problems with building that way are unlimited, no thought to how other parts ,((( siding , interior trim , windows , doors ,)) all integrate , or are integrated into the building is given.
I'd dare say those houses will not last the long haul a building SHOULD last 200 years , todays buildings seem to be designed for maybe 30 years.
I wish the OP would chime in what what the wall thickness is 2x4 / 2x6. But will add we've been building houses with 8'-0" openings for at least 50 years , with double trimmers on each end, with a king stud beside them , solid blocked in the standard joist bay or not , the rim the joist ends "generally" are more than up to the task , (if framed the standard "old fashion way" ) to support the roof and floor loads on a two story house, given standard / or "good" building rules of thumb have been applied.
Stacking the point loads , providing a direct path to bearing , using doubled 2x12 headers , nailed together properly , should hold up even a Fairbanks , Alaska snow load , or name you city of choice Buffalo, N.Y. , Cleveland , Ohio , Boston ,Ma. . Hundred of two and thrid story houses are standing in those cities and have been for 200 years , using standard old fashion / good framing methods, the wood they used may be some what better on average , but still the new code requirements and "some" not all of this engineering we do today is nuts , adds to costs of building a home , and is so much over kill it's not funny any more.
So sez I a simple country carpenter . End of mini rant. no offense DonP your inputs here are very interesting , and they do follow the path we are on with dealing with building official's / departments, although it pains me greatly to have to deal with most of the morons and mainly the code book and the way they use it as a battering ram. The prescriptive code house is a boring house , IMO , YMMV.
So I guess it wasn't quite the end of my rant d* :-[ c*
hi everyone-
thanks for all the discussion!
The house is 36' long (the side the NEW sliding glass door is going into) and 26' wide.
The main floor has trusses that i'd say are 2x10, but they measure 1.5" x 9 (and not 9.25).
The walls are 2x6 walls.
So it sounds like I should use double 2x12 above the door and the same thing above both windows (so a pair of 2x12x8 above the door and another pair above the windows on the 2nd floor.)
thanks!! you guys are incredible.
Quote from: duncanshannon on May 15, 2011, 03:18:04 PM
-
The walls are 2x6 walls.
So it sounds like I should use double 2x12 above the door and the same thing above both windows
(so a pair of 2x12x8 above the door and another pair above the windows on the 2nd floor.)
thanks!! you guys are incredible.
You'll need 10 foot 2x12's 8'-0" RO + 6" (double trimmers both ends = 8'-6" Net header lenght.
You are right this forum, and the members are, pretty incredible w* :)
Also note none of us are engineer's , you play at your own risk ;)
Hey folks-
I talked to the lumber yard and they offered up their services to calc the header sizes. They recommended two headers on the 2nd floor with lvl on the main floor. Calculated point loads were still well within tolerance. I was glad to have the same conclusions (exception of 2 v 1). The discussion here really helped!!
On my other (east) side, I'll be installing 2 windows on 2nd floor and one on main. That was pretty easy... Just 2-2x10 with single trimmer according to thenlumber yard.
I really enjoyed this exercise and felt kinda nerdy when I was enjoying reading the calcs from the yard!
Quote from: duncanshannon on May 20, 2011, 02:56:02 PM
Hey folks-
I talked to the lumber yard and they offered up their services to calc the header sizes. They recommended two headers on the 2nd floor with lvl on the main floor. Calculated point loads were still well within tolerance. I was glad to have the same conclusions (exception of 2 v 1). The discussion here really helped!!
On my other (east) side, I'll be installing 2 windows on 2nd floor and one on main. That was pretty easy... Just 2-2x10 with single trimmer according to thenlumber yard.
I really enjoyed this exercise and felt kinda nerdy when I was enjoying reading the calcs from the yard!
So two shorter headers? Is that what you mean by 2v1 headers? The headers a are still laminated or double up right?
So if you've followed what Don and I have said the reason you have the LVL below is the point load you've got with the split headers on the second floor.
The other thing one header will do on the second floor is stiffen the wall a bit more then two headers separated by a short space between the headers.
Good luck , glad the yard could help you out some on this.
Yep, 2-2x10 - one over each window on 2nd floor. Lvl on main - calcs showed plenty of capacity for the point loads.
I read in a black and decker "how-to" book that you should build a temp support wall if you are removing/cutting thru more than 1 stud in a load bearing wall. How do you guys determine what warrants a temp support wall?
It seems like a pretty reasonable step for cutting in an 8' door... Necessary for a 3' window? 3' window width, 31" RO, 1.5" trimmer each side is a 34" header right? 16" OC studs tells me to cut thru 2. Prob call the newly cut thru the trimmer and add a new king stud. Right? Need temp support wall for that?
What's the rule for gable ends? I want to say the guy who installed some windows For me last year put windows in both gable end walls and non-gable end - (both greater than 4' wide) all w/o any temp bracing.
???
Thx!
A 3-0 header I wouldn't worry about any support at all.
Even a bigger header you can get away with limited support if the right conditions exists.
Say a gable end about 20 feet across ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June18th5.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June18th3.jpg)
I picked up the point loads with the doubled 2x6's , then we cut the nails with a sawsall that held the rim joist to the subfloor and the top plates of the wall below.
When your cutting these nails if there any weight pressing down the blade will get pinched and not move , IF that happens you need to re -assess your temp support , if the blade move fairly easily thru the nails more than likely you can remove the old wood and pretty quickly re-install the new header / rim / what ever.
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June18th6.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June18th7.jpg)
This wall was sheathed with 7/16" OSB on the outside , and had sheet rock installed on the inside , it's a gable end with a truss roof , and even though the end truss is not a structural truss , there's not much weight pressing down .
So seeing we pulled the rim with no issues , why not the beam?
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June18th8.jpg)
Look ma no beam!!
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/19June.jpg)
OK we'll put one back in,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/sept17002-1.jpg)
So the simple answer is "it depends" on a lot of things , type of wall , type of sheathing , on a older house with board sheathing and NOT plywood / OSB sheet goods a lot less can be removed , even a older house with sheet goods BUT LESS sheathing nails per sheet this would be risky , the sheathing makes the wall sort of a box beam , and if you move quickly , as in hours, NOT DAYS , you can do what we did safely.
hey peg- cant believe i forgot to say thanks for the pics and example... very interesting.
I'm starting the interior demo for the new windows (removing sheet rock, framing in the RO's etc).
Two walls down, one more to go.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/cde8825f.jpg)
This wall will be getting two 4' wide by about 18" high windows (total of 8' across) that will be above the bed. The guy who put one windows in like this for me last year didnt open the whole wall and as far as I can tell didnt frame it to code because he didnt use jack studs. He did extend the header beyond the window to the next stud on either side. he said this is pretty normal for new windows in an existing wall.
i didnt think I wanted to do it that way, so i removed all the sheet rock and am going to frame in the windows properly. am i crazy?
One thing... as you may be able to see in this picture the electrical runs across the wall. I need to install jack studs... what do I do with the wire? Im hoping the answer isint remove more drywall and expose the outlet (right side), pull the wire, install the jack studs (4, for 2 windows), drill new holes and run the wire over.
Here is the 2nd wall i've opened up - replacing the one window you see and putting in one to the left of it:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/7d53003a.jpg)
Same electrical questions there.
Opening up the remaining wall tomorrow, removing a fireplace and starting on building the headers.
Quote from: duncanshannon on June 11, 2011, 07:41:04 PM
#1: The guy who put one windows in like this for me last year didnt open the whole wall and as far as I can tell didnt frame it to code because he didnt use jack studs. He did extend the header beyond the window to the next stud on either side. he said this is pretty normal for new windows in an existing wall.
One thing... as you may be able to see in this picture the electrical runs across the wall. I need to install jack studs... what do I do with the wire? Im hoping the answer isint remove more drywall and expose the outlet (right side), pull the wire, install the jack studs (4, for 2 windows), drill new holes and run the wire over.
#1: Pretty common doesn't mean it's right! Even if the header is longer than the window is wide you should have jack studs , or at least a Simpson clip under the header, if the header is only toe nailed into the king stud that's a pretty weak header.
#2: What you could do is use the the two last inner common studs as trimmers , leave a stud wider than the window is as the king stud , the next stud in could be trimmed in place to become a jack, cut it free top and bottom and from the sheathing , slide it left or right over the the "new" king stud . This would make you short of cripples under the sill , but those could be notched to accommodate the wire without significantly weakening the wall .
Another though would be to turn off the circuit , cut the wire and add two outlets spread apart on that wall , as you wouldn't have enough wire to cut it and add just one outlet box unless the guy who pulled the wire left a lot of slack. You did say abed was going under these windows so a outlet on either side of the bed might be a nice bonus! Of course you need to buy two electrical boxes and some wire. but it would be pretty simple to do.
#1 - should i be worried or doing anything? i dont think there were any brackets etc. he talked about lots of screws and perhaps an extra horizontal 2x4 on the bottom of the window or something. disappointing cause i told him several times i wanted things to code. there was a permit, but didnt identify 'new' windows vs replacement windows.
#2 - I think i get the general idea you are talking about here. "What you could do is use the the two last inner common studs as trimmers , leave a stud wider than the window is as the king stud , the next stud in could be trimmed in place to become a jack, cut it free top and bottom and from the sheathing , slide it left or right over the the "new" king stud" - but i read it a couple times and didn't 100% follow you... can you explain a bit more?
#3 - I like the idea of cutting the wire and adding -2- outlets. There is already one on the right hand side.. does it matter that there would now be two outlets 16" appart other than perhaps look a little odd?
Quote from: duncanshannon on June 12, 2011, 02:41:09 PM
#1 - should i be worried or doing anything? i dont think there were any brackets etc. he talked about lots of screws and perhaps an extra horizontal 2x4 on the bottom of the window or something. disappointing cause i told him several times i wanted things to code. there was a permit, but didnt identify 'new' windows vs replacement windows.
#2 - I think i get the general idea you are talking about here. "What you could do is use the the two last inner common studs as trimmers , leave a stud wider than the window is as the king stud , the next stud in could be trimmed in place to become a jack, cut it free top and bottom and from the sheathing , slide it left or right over the the "new" king stud" - but i read it a couple times and didn't 100% follow you... can you explain a bit more?
#3 - I like the idea of cutting the wire and adding -2- outlets. There is already one on the right hand side.. does it matter that there would now be two outlets 16" appart other than perhaps look a little odd?
#1: It's hard to say , but IF there is NO trimmer and the header is bearing only on fasteners that's not the best situation.
#2: In the blue room photo lets as the doubled up stud on the left side of the opened up wall could become the king stud for your RO , you'd leave those two as they are, you'd cut the next stud to the right off so your header would fit above it. Then cut the nails that hold it to the sheathing and the two nail that come up thru the bottom plate off with the sawsall. This stud now could be slid to the left with the wire left in place over to the "new king stud" so you now have a trimmer. Do the same thing to the other side and you have your trimmers all ready in place. You'll be short cripple studs but like I said you could notch those for the wires.
#3: It appears there is a outlet on the right hand side of the opened up wall, you should be able to open that box up and use it as the right side outlet , pull the wire back to the left side of the photo to set a box there . Cut a new wire to daisy chain those two boxes back together. So not boxes would be close together , you'd have one on each side of the opened up wall section .
@PEG - got it! thanks. great tip. [cool]
I'm done with the 'easy' demo now... sheet rock riped out and cleaned up. Now I need to remove my fireplace. Its a gas insert. I've got the gas off to it down in the basement and i'm thinking I can just disconnect it, cap the gas line, and pull the insert, remove the brick and be done with the interior work. There is the 'box' on the outside that runs up the side of the house, thru the soffit and roof - but thats for when I start the exterior demo. We are removing the fireplace and putting in an 8' sliding glass door. should be nice. Pictures later...
Prob. gonna see if I can rent a hammer drill or something to help remove the brick.
oh yeah... time to pick up the permit. Sucks to drop $440 for the permit. :(
well it was a pretty good day working on the house.
Finished the demo of the office where 2 new (3' double hung) windows are going in. The two windows are directly above the new sliding glass door thats going to go in where the fireplace currently is.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/8cf93b74.jpg)
Started the demo of the fireplace. Man, thats a lot of work. Here is a before and after:
Before: (https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/074f75be.jpg)
After (with a 3YRO who loves to mop!): (https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/94dc5c4d.jpg)
Had to disconnect the gas. that made me a little nervous, but it was very straight forward. (gas and electric scare me...) Turned it off a week or so ago (the line to the fireplace [top]). Just disconnected the feed today, and put in a 1/2" fitting with the appropriate "pipe junk"
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/e4c1aacb.jpg)
Went to Lowes... asked what the right tool for the job (remove a fireplace / brick) and they guy sold me a hammer drill. Tried that for about 20 minutes until I realized I was just making holes in the mortar. Was hoping for some cracking... then I took my hammer to it for about 15 minutes and got about 10 bricks out. Then I got smart and went to the hardware store and purchased a sledge hammer (10 lb) and that made the project much easier.
What to do about that huge metal box in the fireplace... its huge. Must be 4-5 feet across/tall/deep. How am I going to get rid of that?
Any other general tips on tearing down/out a fireplace and chimney? Looks like the "chimney pipe" is pretty hard core too (looks like steel or something).
Thanks!
I've got Monday/tuesday of this week off from work, so I can work on the house. I also have two guys with some experience helping me (and helping me learn).
We worked a full day yesterday (sunday) and made soem good progress on removing the fireplace. Man was that a lot of work and something I totally underestimated.
The Cinderblock went all the way up from ground level, up 2 stories and thru the roof. We got the wood/siding off, the cinder block down to the last 6' or so and most of the framing of the new sliding glass door done. The pictures dont do the ammount of work that was (3 men, all day) justice.
Before:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/846808b8.jpg)
End of the day:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/738f4af8.jpg)
Everything had oversized nailes... 20p nails on those 2x trim pieces. It added to the overall amount of labor.
The framing was fun... one guy helped me do it - its really the first framing i've ever done. Got to use my new framing nailer... which was fun!
Today we should get the rest of the block and the huge steel firebox out... and 8' sliding glass door in. If we are lucky, maybe some more interior framing for new windows in other rooms.
it was a lot of fun working yesterday!
Looking good, it appears you have just the right project to provide all the variables necessary to hone your building skills. Removing old chimneys can be a real experience...try one with 120 years of ash in the bottom 8 feet. Does your area have any special requlations on wood burning appliances? If so you might be eligible for a rebate check on removal of the old unit...worth checking out!
@Danfish - no thanks on removing 120 years of ash! holy cow.
its worth a check on a rebate for removing it.. i've never heard of such a thing around here but i'll make a note to check.
Finally got most of the removal, install of door and repair of deck finished. Deck structure needed a little help - apparently no permit on this deck when it was built!
Still need to do the final install on the door and run a few decking boards... and post an add for free scrap on craigslist (for the fire box)... more pictures later.
I've moved on to start ripping the siding off and wrapping with house wrap.
The 3 days of work (last sun/mon/tue) were hard but fun and rewarding!
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/e09c46ec.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/14c1dbcb.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/fd7c9643.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/8ffe3282.jpg)
I havent updated this in a while... made quite a bit of progress since June. Starting to feel a little pressure in terms of getting it finished before it gets too cold to paint...
Framed in 2 new windows in our guest room / office. Really opens up that room, tons lof light and views into the back yard. Very happy with it. It was the first framing I did solo.... took 3 tries to get the first one right. Measured wrong (measured the RO and put the king studs, not the jack studs, the RO width. forgot the 2x6 below the header on top of the jacks).
Before:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/8cf93b74.jpg)
After:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/2e26cf5c.jpg)
Took our dining room (today) and future pantry/closet/hallway and added a window, replaced another: Framing went better but not great yet. Wire along the bottom caused me grief as indicated here http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11031.0 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11031.0)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/7d53003a.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/8235d03b.jpg)
Replaced the kitchen sink window
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/7a6759ab.jpg)
Plugged the old sliding glass door hole with a new window that will go below the future kitchen cabinets and above the future kitchen countertop
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/641572df.jpg)
Replaced 3 bathroom windows all like this: One of them was tricky (for me at least) as in delivery the jamb extension broke. The guy thats helping me made easy work of replacing that piece of the jamb extension with some scrap pine. Thats me brushing my teeth and taking a picture!
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/6143f365.jpg)
Oh, also got 99% of the tear off complete and most of the the house wrap up.
On this first picture, you can see the gable end needs work still. Its going to be built out (boxed out?) like the gable end on the left side of the picture (which is complete). I'm hiring that bit out. Pretty high and seems kinda 'custom' or 'fancy' work so I'm not even going to bother trying. Perhaps I'll help out/assist.
Need tweak two of the windows (kitchen and one bathroom not pictured) and then its time to start trimming & siding. Trying to get an electrician out here to wire some new outlets/lights while I've got everything off.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/5fba59fc.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/df6b24cf.jpg)
Quote from: duncanshannon on August 14, 2011, 08:06:38 AM
Need tweak two of the windows (kitchen and one bathroom not pictured) and then its time to start trimming & siding. Trying to get an electrician out here to wire some new outlets/lights while I've got everything off.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/5fba59fc.jpg)
See that tape over the big window you should tuck the top UNDER the bigger piece of Tyvek , it looks like you did the tape around most of the windows but not around the ground floor ones in the one photo. Maybe it's just hard to see in the photos?
Always lead the water OUT when ever possible. I've seen the tape leak when one of our guys didn't lap it right , he figured the tape was water proof. We caught it before the siding wen on, we had water on a window top. We lapped the paper properly and no more water leaked in, so it does matter.
Good catch! I noticed that today when grilling before the local small town parade (we live on the route).
The other taping is not finished yet... Will get there hopefully this week.
Aother 3 day weekend coming up - hoping to finish framingin the last two windows and filling one in.
Time to work on the house again...
I'm working on starting to trim and side this side:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/df6b24cf.jpg)
Yes, ive finished taping and started to trim the windows... so I should be able to start putting some of the siding on, right?
Couple questions:
I have flashing on the ledger and decking installed up the edge of the house. Hardie requires a 2" space between decking and their planks.
The reading I did says the housewrap should be on top (over) the flashing. Seems to me that, if i follow the instructions perfectly, i'll see 2" of Tyvek below my siding and above my deck. yuk.
Whats the deal with that?
Is that one of those things that the warranty requires but nobody actually does because it would look terrible?
thanks
Here is a picture to be more clear:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/32ed3229.jpg)
As part of this project, i had another thread about removing an interior wall and wether or not it was load bearing. Linking here to tie the two threads together.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11068
Quote from: duncanshannon on September 11, 2011, 02:39:08 PM
Here is a picture to be more clear:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/32ed3229.jpg)
Run a 6" wide counter flashing over the top of the Z metal , this extends the metal up the wall higher , you can stop the wrap above where the Hardi starts so you'll see what ever color metal you run , Galv., White, Brown, Black are all stock items in 6" rolls , generally 12' , 25' 50 ' rolls .
ETA : You will have to slice your wrap , flip it up , install the 6 roll metal then flip the wrap back down , trim as required so it doesn't show.
Quick update... and a question.
I've got all my windows installed now... last two went in last weekend!
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/a0676a57.jpg)
Also, got the last of the gable boxing in framed and wrapped. The plank is covering up the exterior of the new windows.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/3abd47cb.jpg)
Got some siding on the house... which is a nice milestone to hit. Winter is coming quick! Need to get windows trimmed and siding up this year. Given up on any hope of getting it painted this year.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/c1761d59.jpg)
Now... in order to keep siding, need to get the lighting adjusted around a new sliding glass door. I filled in the old 6' door and put in a new 8' door in. Need to slide one light down closer to the door and install a new one on the other side of the door.
My question is.. is it code (generally) to run the wiring along the header above the door?
the O is the existing light location. 1 is the new home for the old light and 2 is the location of the new light. I drew in red where I think I want to run the wire.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/caddd4b0-1.jpg)
Can I do this and be code? I tried to google and read a bit and no real luck. I don't know the code enough to even ask the right question / use the right key words yet...
Any input is greatly appreciated!
Thanks
We do that all the time, meets code here in NM. It looks like 2 by 4's up there so you'll have to put notch plates over all the holes if you can't get them back an inch and a quarter.
It's 2x4's that have been ripped down to about 2 1/8 inch - they are nailing blocks infront of the double LVL header. (2x6 walls).
where in the UBC would this be talked about? is there something that talks about over a door, or infront of a header, or is it really just about the size/depth of hole in a stud or a metal plate covering a notch?
I think it's mostly about the size of hole in relation to the material, I think it may be up to 40% in a bearing wall but I'm not positive. There are some cases like posts and jack studs where you can't do it, but cripples, king studs and such are allowed. I have been working for an electrician for the past 6 months or so and I was amazed at the holes we punched everywhere. I used to ask a lot "is this O.K?", but now I pretty much drill away! Most everything we do is inspected.
Also the hole can be as close as 5/8 to the edge, but if it's less than 1 and 1/4 inch you need a notch plate.
Quick progress update:
Siding is all on except 2 1/2 courses (and one small piece of soffit). Might have to wait until spring... got some snow yesterday. And a ladder I had on long term loan has gone back to its owner (down to 1 24' extension).
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-7.jpg)
Have moved indoors mostly now to work on insulation, vapor barrier, and sheet rock. bleh.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-2.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-1.jpg)
Getting a bit anxious to get the dumpster out of the drive way... so started another small project. Will do the demo and then outta here with the dumpster. Taking out a closet (removing walls and doors) and putting in (later) a new closet system by Elfa from The Container Store.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-5.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-8.jpg)
Time to clean up... (and ask a couple questions here...)
And now... a couple of questions.
1) As I remove the interior walls
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-8.jpg)
I'm left with the 2x4 that goes across the top of where the old wall was.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-6.jpg)
If I remove it, the insulation up in the attic is going to fall thru. Is there an easy way to remove and patch the drywall other than going up in the attic and putting some cross bracing / backing between the rafters (flush to the top of the drywall) to screw the drywall up?
2) Vapor Barrier - As I put up the VB, how should I be 'connecting' it back to the rest of the barrier thats in place?
You can see here... where I filled in a old window, I have seams...
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-2.jpg)
Closer up:
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-3.jpg)
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/file-4.jpg)
There is 3/4 foil backed rigid foam under the 1/2 sheet rock. that appears to have been used as the barrier originally. I'm putting up 6mil plastic under the foil backed foam. Should I tape the edge of the tape of the 6mil to the edge of the foam/sheetrock? Will hanging the sheet rock press it closed / seal the VB enough? I cant find much talk about vapor barrier online.
3) Lastly... should i be putting a bead of caulk across the top of the wall between the 2x4 and the vapor barrier to help seal that? It seem that more modern barrier 'stuff' is so much different than what was inplay in 1984 (when this house was built)... i can only hope and imagine that what i'm doing, if not exactly right, is a big improvement over 1984 techniques. Any good resources for talking about vapor barrier in Cold in Winter HOT in summer climates like Minnesota?
The house is looking good. You've been doing a lot of work!
QuoteAny good resources for talking about vapor barrier in Cold in Winter HOT in summer climates like Minnesota?
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-106-understanding-vapor-barriers/?searchterm=vapor%20barrier
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/info-sheet-310-vapor-control-layer-recommendations
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0410-vapor-barriers-and-wall-design
http://www.buildingscience.com/doctypes/enclosures-that-work/etw-building-profiles/bsc_climatemap_view?climates=cold#climatemap_anchor
Alan
Hi Alan-
Thanks for the complement and the links... will read 'em for sure.
Duncan
thanks alan. i scanned those and didnt see much about 'how to' install it... like how to make sure that you tape/seal joints well etc. Did I miss that or does it not cover it much?
anyone else on the removal of the interior walls and needing to patch the gab from the 2x4 in the ceiling?
Most of their stuff doesn't really involve how to, more of a recommendation of doing. My reason for posting them was more in response to this question:
QuoteAny good resources for talking about vapor barrier in Cold in Winter HOT in summer climates like Minnesota?
My take on reading those articles is that a vapor barrier isn't required or even recommended in climates such as ours. That it's virtually impossible to detail them correctly so that they actually perform as a vapor barrier and that you can run the risk of trapping moisture in the wall. More important is achieving a solid air barrier, which can be sheetrock if all penetrations are caulked (top and bottom plates, around windows, doors, and partition walls) and all outlets are sealed. The majority of water vapor that will make it into the walls will come from bulk air movement (like around an outlet) rather than through the sheetrock.
But that's just what I've read. I have no practical experience. Lots of houses around here are done different ways with no problems.
Alan
Quote from: duncanshannon on November 25, 2011, 09:03:07 AM
anyone else on the removal of the interior walls and needing to patch the gab from the 2x4 in the ceiling?
The easiest way out is a fake beam attached to the 2x4 sticking down from the ceiling , either stained a accent color or painted the ceiling color to blend in.
That 2x4 should have a 2x6 nailed to the top of it that would have been sheet rock nailer backing for the ceiling, most folks just nail a 2x6 to the top of walls like that to create the backing lip.
That being said there could be nothing up there depending on who framed the place.
So even if there is a 2x6 up there when you pull the 2x4 out then it's hanging off the ceiling sheet rock , so it's either the fake beam , or up into the attic to shore up the situation.
G/L PEG
I'm overdue for a longer update... lots of work since the last update. (prob. not enough progress given how long its been...)
Here is a visual of one of my lessons learned going thru my first major remodeling project myself.... Make sure your windows are set exactly right so the jamb extensions will be flush with the drywall! (or perhaps it was a bad drywall job...)
Now that I'm trimming the windows... i'm paying the price for this being off.
(https://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/sodatrain/Siding%20and%20Windows%20Project%202011/33D392E4.jpg)
Too bad its that way on a handful of windows. :(
I'm not striving for perfection on the finish work here... so we will see how it turns out in the end.
Any good tips for dealing with this kind of gap? I've got one somewhere else that is about 1/4" (and i hired the install of that window out! It seeems to usually be the corners and is not that way around the entire jamb.
Caulk? Wood Putty? Bondo? Shims? More jamb extension strips?
Last night on one window I took a planer and scraped away some of the drywall (which is now covered up by the trim).
I spose I could sand off the back of the trim too... not at 1/" tho.
Trying to 'wrap up' the interior parts of the project in the next couple weeks before dear-parents come for a visit.
Lots has changed. More soon.
custom cut wood strips to fill the required space. At least that is what I have done once. Cut to rough length, place against the window jamb, scribe a line, rip close to the line, plane smooth, glue and finish nail. ???
Its a pretty common issue, it's cause is thick / wide studs , some run right in the 1/2" some can creep out to close to 5/8" . Then the sheathing can be not sucked tight all the way around the window RO . Then we add building wrap , the the Vycor and / or Vycor + Vy-corners at the bottom , maybe add a bow out in the trimmer midway on the trimmer causing the top and/ or bottom to ride out . The hangers can get lazy and not suck the S/R tight on the inside , the insulation may be pooched out of the stud bays not allowing the S/R to set tight .. So you get the idea , having a window not flush all the way around is pretty common.
What you want is solutions , not causes d*
The basic way IF one uses vinyl windows which you didn't do by that photo , is to adjust the interior surround before it's set , I put the surround in the opening then adjust it's depth by trimming , to get it as close as I can all the way around so I cheat it to the "best fit" position then .
In you case you could go outside and use a block and attempt to drive the corners that are to far out on the inside in. This seldom works , but you might get one in 5 to move inward a bit.
So when that fails the next easiest fix is the old sheet rock bash, place a piece of trim where it goes for the inner reveal , trace the outside edge so you know how far out you can bash , then bash away , this works most of the time.
If the offset is a 1/4" or more a jamb extension placed flush with the casing can work depending on if the casing is paint grade , or stain grade .
If it's paint grade you can let the caulking help you a 1/16 to 1/8" gap is caulk-able.
Good luck .
Well... I guess lots of things can cause that. I feel a little better... thanks PEG :D
QuoteSo when that fails the next easiest fix is the old sheet rock bash, place a piece of trim where it goes for the inner reveal , trace the outside edge so you know how far out you can bash , then bash away , this works most of the time.
Now we are talking! sounds nice and fast. I'm gonna give that a whirl on he worst ones.
QuoteIf it's paint grade you can let the caulking help you a 1/16 to 1/8" gap is caulk-able.
Thats deff. my speed. I was hoping caulking would be ok. I don't know why it wouldn't... other than it seemed to easy given the mild anxiety i had over starting the finish work!
I've got my trim and jambs painted with the sashes clear coat stained.
Thanks!
Quote from: duncanshannon on April 15, 2012, 11:45:36 AM
Well... I guess lots of things can cause that. I feel a little better... thanks PEG :D
Now we are talking! sounds nice and fast. I'm gonna give that a whirl on he worst ones.
Thats deff. my speed. I was hoping caulking would be ok. I don't know why it wouldn't... other than it seemed to easy given the mild anxiety i had over starting the finish work!
I've got my trim and jambs painted with the sashes clear coat stained.
Thanks!
All this is heresy to fine home building of course and I'd never do any of it ;) My windows and doors always lay flat , plumb and square , the grain is always aligned , things that are designed to be flush are flush , and in relief are well in relief!! 8)
One note of caution on the S/R bash , the casing can appear tipped inward , you can lessen that some if needed by taking some meat off the back side of the outer edge of the casing , depending on it's style / thickness. If you're mitering the trim you can monkey with the miter or give it a slight back cut angle to help out some times.
G/L PEG
Quotemonkey with the miter
That's where finish carpentry becomes an art.....
Quote from: MountainDon on April 15, 2012, 01:38:03 PM
That's where finish carpentry becomes an art.....
Or butchery c*
Thanks PEG and Don for the tips.
I applied the hammer smash technique with some luck. Its a bit coarse, hopefully some caulk and paint will make it so people wont notice :)
Of the 11 windows I finished this weekend, only one is really bad. Overall the work is not as bad as I expected it to be. The last two windows of the day, which were flush with the sheet rock almost all the way around, are pretty respectable.
10 more windows, 3 doors and 1 sliding glass door to go. Oh, then baseboard all around too... but I think thats gonna come later.
Glad we could help out, paint covers a multitude of sins , or a good painter can make a marginal carpenter look better, of course a poor painter can make a great carpenter look marginal , such is life!
;D ;D