I am planning a new little project and I am trying to make use of all the space as best as possible. I want to be about 700 sq ft. This one is 24x32 and is 768 sq ft. Plan being, cabin/home for family of 4. 2 girls can share a bedroom, we get the other. Need washer/dryer area and pantry. Trying to get rid of kitchen table to gain more living area but its not certain.
Everyone, please suggest anything that I can do to refine the floorplan. It seems there is a lot of wasted space here but my brain is fried at the moment.
(http://www.ouramericanadventure.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/768_cabin_floor_plan.jpg)
Here are some of my first thoughts.
Wood Stove: It appears to be too close to the wall and windows ???
Bathroom: twin sinks seem to be a waste of space in a small cabin/house. If the toilet was beside one sink the bathroom could be narrower. Our old 832 sq ft house had the bathroom situated across the back wall like that.
Q?: What's the space to the left of the fridge? Pantry?
I'm not sure I understand the kitchen table? It looks like an extension of the counter, and yet not quite. ???
Q?: water heater? Furnace or electric baseboard heat or just the wood stove?
...that's it for now
One more thing. I'm a big fan of having at least one entry door a full 36" wide. It makes moving bulky objects like sofas in/out much easier. Easier on the movers and the furniture, IMO. For the same reason bedroom doors are often 30".
And maybe it's just the way the program printed the door sizes, but 68 inches tall is not standard. Even I would crack my noggin on that. ;D
Is there a reason for 20x50 windows that I don't understand? Seems to me a 40x50 would cost less than two - 20x50. ??? When I selected my window sizes I knew what I more or less wanted then checked with the window guys to see what was a standard size, saving the cost of a specially ordered window size. Maybe you've already done that and have a lead on 20x50's.
That is standard notation for doors and windows - not inches but feet and inches - a 3068 is 3'0"x6'8"
a 2050 window should be 2'0"x5'0" first number being width - second being height so a 6046 should be 6'0" wide x4'6" high
d* d* d* d* d*
I knew that once d* d* d* d*
... never mind... ;D
I agree with above comments. The woodstove would be more effective near center of building, say on that short wall across from the dining table. I would prefer the bedroom doors swinging "outward" ... just my preference ... seems to save useful space. I would prefer the cookstove on an outside wall ... easier venting. If local codes allow, I prefer outside doors to swing outward ... usually not a problem if under a stoop or porch roof ... also more difficult for the bugler. Washer and dryer in a small house can be a real pain ... noise, moisture venting and such ... a connected garage or other side building would be my choice for such devices ... again, personal choices.
If the stove was moves as JRR suggested then there might be room for a coat closet near the front door.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 05, 2009, 12:56:32 AM
Here are some of my first thoughts.
Wood Stove: It appears to be too close to the wall and windows ???
This is true. We would put it at the distance required. The other option was in the center on that little wall between the kitchen and bathroom.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 05, 2009, 12:56:32 AMBathroom: twin sinks seem to be a waste of space in a small cabin/house. If the toilet was beside one sink the bathroom could be narrower. Our old 832 sq ft house had the bathroom situated across the back wall like that.
This is also true. The reasoning behind the 2 sinks was,,,,,, 3 girls in the house... Also, if I did what you said, it would make the bathroom more narrow yes, but the gain could only come from the closet? That would be a gain of 6" and, in my thoughts, not a useful addition in depth when clothes must be hung across width wise...
Quote from: MountainDon on January 05, 2009, 12:56:32 AMQ?: What's the space to the left of the fridge? Pantry?
It is a full height cabinet for pantry use. Also a requirement for the wife.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 05, 2009, 12:56:32 AMQ?: I'm not sure I understand the kitchen table? It looks like an extension of the counter, and yet not quite. ????
Basically, its one of those pennisula breakfast bars. I put oversized counter tops on it so it would have a large overhang to put your feet under sitting there.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 05, 2009, 12:56:32 AMQ?: water heater? Furnace or electric baseboard heat or just the wood stove?
Water heater will be propane instant mounted externally like the one we have in our current home.
I am not poo-pooing any of the comments. They are exactly what I need. I am just answering as to why I thought it. I will certainly play with each of the comments to see the effects.
I'd delete the entry door for the kitchen. For a small cabin, I'd try to make do with only one door and use the extra space in the kitchen for counter and cabinet space.
Closet for the front bedroom is quite large. I would stagger the closets, so that they were right next to eachother, or put them back to back. If you put them back to back, you could have a linen closet in the hallway, and each closet would still be good sized. Bathroom could then be bigger, or moved over. here is one, squeezed down to 24x28. Isn't necessary, I just like to see how small they can squeeze!
(https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc93/hobbiest/floorplan24x28.jpg)
Quote from: NM_Shooter on January 05, 2009, 10:29:59 AM
I'd delete the entry door for the kitchen. For a small cabin, I'd try to make do with only one door and use the extra space in the kitchen for counter and cabinet space.
You know, cabin design 22b had the full kitchen. :) Wife really liked the smaller kitchen with the door. Go figure. I do like multiple doors though. I hate looking out the back window at something I want and then running around the front and then to the back only to find out it's gone... :(
Quote from: Jens on January 05, 2009, 10:30:56 AM
Closet for the front bedroom is quite large. I would stagger the closets, so that they were right next to eachother, or put them back to back. If you put them back to back, you could have a linen closet in the hallway, and each closet would still be good sized. Bathroom could then be bigger, or moved over. here is one, squeezed down to 24x28. Isn't necessary, I just like to see how small they can squeeze!
(https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc93/hobbiest/floorplan24x28.jpg)
Jens,, that's not bad. We have the large front closet because it needs to hold a rather large safe (gun safe) + all the clothes for wife and I. I really like the kitchen design you came up with. It's very simple and fits. I had designed the closets staggered in one version but I ended up with space that I thought was wasted. The "new hall" that gets created. Your plan has that new hall that doesn't serve a purpose other than to hold doors. That's 20 sq ft that could be used elsewhere........ If we know where to put it.. Believe me, I worked for quite a while and sacraficed the 12-16 sq ft of hall that I have now... I hate hallways in small houses. But sometimes they are truly neccessary.
Quote from: phalynx on January 05, 2009, 10:29:10 AM.... The other option was in the center on that little wall between the kitchen and bathroom....
You described it better. That's the location I would chose for the wood stove.
Going back to the original plan, I would maybe suggest a stacked washer/dryer and a linen closet next to the bathroom in the space you've freed up.
Also, it's might be nice if one of the bedrooms (preferably yours) had direct private access to the bathroom via a sliding door. Could be done with some finagling.
The units we have are stackable, but we hate them stacked. Yes they take up more room unstacked, but you gain a ton of storage above them when they are unstacked. That was one of the first things we wanted in the new design, destacked. :)
Quote from: phalynx on January 05, 2009, 04:26:50 PM
The units we have are stackable, but we hate them stacked. Yes they take up more room unstacked, but you gain a ton of storage above them when they are unstacked. That was one of the first things we wanted in the new design, destacked. :)
Strong opinions, like me. ;D
When I did my design, I wrote down all the things I really wanted (big bath)and all the stuff I despised, like hallways in a small home. It really helped with the design process. Finally, I looked at adding some pizazz. That's the fun part!
Indeed it is!!! What's funny is you can get a lot of the things you want by making the home deeper. I guess I could go to 28' deep, it may help with some of it. I guess I am just scared to do so.... no real reason.
Why are you planning on building another house? Are you just sick in the head like me? I thought you just got moved into yours? Our house has the bedrooms along one half, bedroom, bedroom, then bath, other half is living room, dining room, kitchen. No halls, closets split between rooms. Decent sized rooms, 6x12 foot bath, all doors open to the living and dining rooms. 923 square feet it works out to (I thought it was smaller!), but would be 24x36 without the dining room, and moving the kitchen into its place. Kitchen would be bigger too! I could sketch it up for you if interested. I hate hallways too, but little vestibular spaces are sometimes nice to break the flow from common to private.
Pretty much, I am sick in the head. Yes we have made tremendous progress on our place, but it's the location I don't care for. Originally, we intended to move to East TN. I am not sure why but we decided against buying there and ended up buy here in Austin. I basically settled for something rather than getting what we were looking for. I want 4 seasons, rain, snow, green, nice trees, hills, all that good stuff. I didn't much of that at all. Plus I really don't care for Austin. It's not my kind of town.
So yeah, I am sick in the head, sick to move back to TN. Sick sick sick... d*
I like looking at what others have done in their places. The more and more I see small homes, the more I want to downsize further.
Also,,,,, heheheh,,,, my wife isn't too successful with stairs lately.. ;D or rather, this immoticon is more appropriate... ???
Where in east TN? We are in Knoxville.
The living area is quite large . . .
You may want to consider moving the bathroom to the front of the house. Leaving the bedrooms and laundry in the same area. An electric hot water heater could go in one of the cloosets. Or, if a 20 gal electric, it could go under one of the corner cabinets in the kitchen.
The deep closet in the one bedroom may be wasted space. Consider wall cabinets in the other bedroom. (Would be great for a tv or a fold-down desk top.)
There still would be enough room to locate a woodstove against the bath wall.
I prefer a dining table to a kitchen half-wall. The table is more convenient if you have children . . . (They can be doing homework without disturbing your working in the kitchen, etc . . . )
I think the two foot wide windows on your plan would not be large enough to exit in case of emergency.
Good Luck . . .
(https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/bayviewps/Misc/CountryPlan1.jpg)
We originally liked Sneedville area but we are thinking now about south of the Tri-Cities area. They get more snow. I used to live in middle TN.
Quote from: bayviewps on January 05, 2009, 08:00:01 PM
I think the two foot wide windows on your plan would not be large enough to exit in case of emergency.
Good point... IRC2003 has this to say about emergency exits...
minimum clear width 20"
minimum clear height 24"
minimum clear opening area 5.7 sq ft.
I can do 4' wide windows. I just thought it looked nicer with 24" windows. Safety is important.
Bayview has some interesting ideas on the redesign too. Trying to play with them to see if I can make them work.
Quote from: phalynx on January 05, 2009, 10:33:40 AM
Quote from: NM_Shooter on January 05, 2009, 10:29:59 AM
I'd delete the entry door for the kitchen. For a small cabin, I'd try to make do with only one door and use the extra space in the kitchen for counter and cabinet space.
You know, cabin design 22b had the full kitchen. :) Wife really liked the smaller kitchen with the door. Go figure. I do like multiple doors though. I hate looking out the back window at something I want and then running around the front and then to the back only to find out it's gone... :(
How old are the girls? Do you have cats or dogs? If the girls are young, or you have critters, I can definitely see wanting a door. Also, a kitchen table
is living space, the most important living space! You prep meals at it, you eat at it, you play cards and do puzzles at it, the kids sit at it to do their homework. A table is necessary. I'd give up a couch before I'd give up a table, in fact, I did just that.
The points are valid, but don't neccessarily apply. We don't use our table too much. A oversized counter would do the same in our house. The girls are 11 and 7. We have both a dog and cats. We wanted a large living room because I am really big and my furniture is thus big... (insert Jolly Green Giant joke here, Glenn). By the time we have a couch and the 2 recliners, the living room is 12x20.
Goes well with a troglodyte, Phalynx. [crz]
How do you feel about pocket doors? Not good everywhere, I know, but they are real space savers especially for doors that are usually open.
You know, I love pocket doors. I think they are fantastic. They are just hard to fit in small homes because of lack of wall space. I will review the plan to see where they can fit. That's a great way to shrink.
In my kitchen in the Victoria cottage, I have one storage wall with the refrigerator, and everything else just base cabinets except for some open shelving. The storage wall is 9.5 feet long, so there are actually two pantry/closets. I may use one as a hall closet, since it's close to the side entry. I had room for an island, which will also serve as seating. I didn't want a dining room either. If the need arises, get one of those coffee tables that converts to table height. They're great!
I live in a house I designed with a great room 13 x 28, with a cedar ceiling, with three skylights, that soars from 8 feet up to about 20 feet. In a small home, having one dramatic area is a big luxury. Everyone thinks my home is huge, but it's only about 1,600 square feet. So I
heartily agree that where you spend your time is where to allocate square feet.
I have mixed feelings about pocket doors, having fought with one in our bathroom for a number of years. They don't lock too well either. I may go with some sliding barn doors in the new house, but they wouldn't work too well in your plan.
Pocket doors. IMO, they appear to be the solution on paper many times, but in practice oftentimes it turns out different. As rwanders stated, I believe their only utility is "for doors that are usually open". For a bathroom where the door is likely to be opened and closed frequently they are a PITA. Ditto bedrooms, as far as I am concerned.
Now with all that said, yes, we used a pocket door in our cabin. It was space saver time. The cabin will be occupied most of the time by just the two of us. The bathroom design places the toilet at the end away from the door, no direct line of sight to the toilet. That's enough privacy for an old married couple, or a younger couple for that matter. If company is around the door can be slid closed on those occasions. For general use, I don't like them.
If you must have one, and if it is likely to be used daily I would do like PEG suggests and get one of the metal framed units with 4 wheels on each roller assembly. (mine is wood framed but with 4 wheels per roller... a compromise for my reasons above.)
If you use pocket doors, make sure you switch to shorter drywall screws and nails! I haven't had it happen to me, but have seen people nail/screw them shut! And you usually don't find out until almost done with the job.
So, after letting it sit for a while and then revisiting it after a break, I have made some more modifications. I shrunk the cabin 2' so it is now 24x30. 720 sq ft. I combined the utility and bathroom somewhat. Swapped bedrooms. Got rid of the Kitchen bar area and just left a place for a table.
Comment away... Make suggestions.....
(http://www.ouramericanadventure.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/725cabinv5.jpg)
My two cents. (bear in mind I ain't married, and have no kids, but I DO like to cook so a kitchens functionality is higher on my list of priorities.)
Move the kitchen sink to the bathroom common wall ( one 'wet wall' simplifies plumbing, veggies/meat out of fridge directly to sink for washing/unwrapping), move stove to door location (gives counter space on either side of cook surface {double plus good}, bad energy juju having heat source next to cold source), move door to sink location or to end of counter (sliding glass door?). Alternatively move stove to sink location and leave door in place. Either way, get the hot stove away from the cold fridge.
Ditch the full tub (really now, with four people...three of them girls...who's going to have TIME to take a BATH??). Go for an un-cramped corner shower in the upper right corner of the room, sink in the lower right, and toilet on the far wall under the window. Bring the left side wall in about 2 feet (expands MB). Push back kitchen wall just a tiny bit if you NEED to to make it fit. If you absolutely MUST have a 'bath' consider a 'walk-in (http://www.premier-bathrooms.com/popup.php?prod=5&im=1)' model.
Reduce closet depth between main and second BR. Build two separate closets for secondary BR (One for each girl... FUTURE HEADACHE SAVER!!!) Shorten wall across from W/D, set MB entrance at an angle to room, and turn recovered space between MB and bathroom into closet (small, shallow vertical linen closet opposite W/D between MB door and MB closet?). Louvered accordion doors to 'hide' W/D.
Here is a pic with most of the modifications Phssthpok suggested. I am not sure how they are settling with me but the visual will spark more conversation. The bathtub was requested by the 3 girls.... I guess shaving your legs in the shower isn't a easy.... I dunno. I still have to have a large closet in the master to hold a large safe. That part isn't negotiable ??? I am also not sure about the door on the side. Lil-bit really likes the door on the back.
(http://www.ouramericanadventure.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/725v6.jpg)
Where does the back door go? I would not put a door just to have one I would put it where you need it to get to something outside like a deck woodshed carport etc. I don't like walking through the laundry to get to the bathroom. A stacked W/D unit in the kitchen would be better IMO. Is this a cabin or a home? I'd put the fridge where the door is and slide the door down a bit to make the kitchen easier to use.
Back door would go to a deck. The Washer Dryer are stackable but after having them stacked now, we hate stacking. Not the end of the world either way though. This would be a full time home.
Didn't you just build a house dude? You a glutten for punishment or what?
It's fun! Austin isn't going to be my home forever... Goal is to buy new property in the TN-KY area and build this new home. When done, move there using all the proceeds from this place to pay it all off and then farm and live life where it isn't 105 degrees.
Since this will be your home, but you plan to sell, that means it will be someone else's home so resale considerations would be important.
I love showers and don't use the tub, but with only one bath, potential buyers will want a tub. And make the bath seem as big as possible. I know it seems like a waste of space, but believe me, with 3 females in the house, the bathroom will be used by more than one at a time.
For the laundry, it needs to be as isolated as you can muster. Definitely don't put it in the kitchen or behind bi-fold doors that won't cut the noise. My sister had her laundry off the kitchen eating area, and wouldn't rest until the laundry room was moved to another part of the house.
What about closing off the laundry area with solid double doors, and using the space in front for the door to the MB? That way this small hallway provides 3 doors, laundry, bath, and MB. And you can probably create some more closet space.
I agree with what others have said about the kitchen. The classic stove, sink, refrigerator triangle is a proven concept, use it. Working space on both sides of the sink and stove are important, because you may have or future owners may have left handed people.
And don't forget that refrigerators can be made to open in either direction. I couldn't believe that a fridge opened the wrong way in an apartment we were about to move into. I asked the landload to reverse the door, which he did. Then recently my church bought a new fridge that again opened the wrong way. I reversed it myself.
This new "cabin" will be the new home with no intentions of selling. I was referring to selling the house we just built here in Austin to pay for it. I agree with you on the washer/dryer noise. I cannot stand it. I am currently playing with some more refinements. Seeing what I can do with it.
The MB door treatment isn't exactly what I had in mind. I was thinking in terms of squaring up the one 'diagonal' closet (trust me...identical closets will eliminate any possibility of 'space' arguments), and running the MB door from the corner (eliminating the little 'hallway' in the MB). This would reduce the 'linen' closet to about the depth and width of one folded bath towel, but being floor to ceiling that should still be plenty of storage to meet your needs. Doing this would probably result in an angled acces door to the laundry room which may or may not be visually appealing....dunno. ???
RE: the W/D location..Visually, the bathroom and laundry rooms seem to be similar in size. What if you moved the W/D side by side to the back (outside wall) and closed it off with solid doors (read: not wooden louvered...better sound isolation) opening 'phone booth' style? This would allow more open floor plan in the bathroom without encroaching on the rest of the living space as well as having the added benefit of a short, direct exhaust route for the dryer. The closet would act as a sound buffer for the MB and you could hyper insulate (for sound) the wall section between the kitchen and W/D cabinet. The drawback to this would be losing the window in the bathroom. Of course that whole idea kind of plays havoc with the bathroom layout, so it may not be feasible.... :-\
With the large Bathroom you could probably reinsert the full bath, but here's something to consider: If the girls want a 'bath' for leg shaving, you can (correctly) point out that the 'walk in' unit I linked to has a built in seat. Try this for yourself....go through the motions of 'shaving' your legs...which is easier: standing up, laying down (with your back against the wall to simulate a standard tub) or sitting in a chair while propping your foot against the wall? ;)
Here is another version that Lil-bit and I have come up with. It's much more compact and not a lot of storage although it has more than the others.
(http://www.ouramericanadventure.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/725aqft_cabin_ver7a.jpg)
Sent you a PM if you see a strange e-mail address. c*
rlr