roofing question

ScottA · March 11, 2008, 09:36:24 PM

I'm trying to figure the proper sequence here... Do I need felt under the facia boards? Yes? The facia needs to be installed before the metal roof edging goes on? Yes? Does the metal roof edging go on top of or under the felt? I'm thinking it goes on top...

MountainDon · March 11, 2008, 09:53:18 PM

Drip edge first.
Then ice & water shield if used (over drip edge)
Then roofing felt.
Then shingles.

I think there's one type of drip edge that's better than the rest.... forget the term/name for it

I think PEG mentioned it?

March 11, 2008, 09:57:45 PM

You want to make the water stay out of everything, hence, Dons sequence.

Redoverfarm · March 11, 2008, 10:00:24 PM

I think Peg called it Z style I think. It was on an earlier post but I don't remember where. Also there is no need IMO to put felt behind the facia board that would re-direct the water behind it and cause problems with rot. Did you find any "ice guard"? If you did then this goes on over the drip edge and then start your felt with a 4-6" overlap at the top of the ice guard. If you are going to be some time before roofing with shingles you might consider "button nails" instead of roofing or staples to attach the felt. It will not take much wind to tear off.

glenn kangiser · March 11, 2008, 10:06:55 PM

The plastic buttons will deteriorate in about a year. Don't ask me how I know.

March 11, 2008, 10:08:02 PM

Style D flashing first , Ice and water shield (if it's being used , most folks here only use it on low pitched roofs , any where ice damming is probable it's a great idea to use at least the bottom 36" , one width of paper / I & W shield , then a Normal 2" ish over lap with the 30 lbs felt.

As I was taught , "Think like rain", always , always , always , lead it out to day light.

All flashing all felt should lead the water out / on top of the roofing , never bury the lower edge under the shingles . Felt the same way always lap it so IF water gets past the shingles it , the water , will be lead out to day light.

Glenn , you a little slow in shingling , felt is not roofing , right??

glenn kangiser · March 11, 2008, 10:11:24 PM

You saved the day again, PEG.

We need a superhero name for you.

ScottA · March 11, 2008, 10:15:43 PM

Great responses guys. Thanks. No delay on the shingle install, they'll go on as quick as I get this decking done. Should have paper on it by this weekend and shingles next week. So no need to install the facia boards first? I can just slip them under the edging later, right? And no felt paper behind the facia? Oh and no ice guard to be had around here. It would be special order.

Redoverfarm · March 11, 2008, 10:17:02 PM

Peg you hammered me again. But hey I was in the ball park. It was a letter in the alphabet. I did mention it was in a post you had recently discussed. Moral of the story don't believe everything you hear and check it out yourself.

March 11, 2008, 10:21:11 PM

Quote from: ScottA on March 11, 2008, 10:15:43 PM

Great responses guys. Thanks. No delay on the shingle install, they'll go on as quick as I get this decking done. Should have paper on it by this weekend and shingles next week. So no need to install the facia boards first? I can just slip them under the edging later, right? And no felt paper behind the facia?

It's way easier to install the facia and rake / barge boards first , in fact I like to lap my roof sheathing onto the top edge of tha facia so it doesn't get all wigglie/ warped etc between the rafters / truss's.

Every body does something a little different but I like it that way , more better , looks nice longer etc. And it's the "right way" to do it .

As I say at work , 'It's my way or the highway " they get to decide

PEG688 · March 11, 2008, 10:25:29 PM

Quote from: Redoverfarm on March 11, 2008, 10:17:02 PM

Peg you hammered me again. But hey I was in the ball park. It was a letter in the alphabet. I did mention it was in a post you had recently discussed. Moral of the story don't believe everything you hear and check it out yourself.

I saw your post after I posted mine , I was typing mine when you "beat me to it" I was adding to Mtn D's post IIRC he mentioned a "better type".

I saw you gave me credit ,

VERY few people use Style D , Home despot carries it here in my town but it's a very light weight gauge metal they carry.

If I walk into my regular lumber yard they don't carry it , so I have to think ahead so they can have it brought onto the island from the mainland / thier supplier.

ScottA · March 11, 2008, 10:25:39 PM

Ok that's what I figured. I'll put the facia on before the roofing. Thanks all!

ScottA · March 20, 2008, 08:18:17 AM

I was talking to roofer yesterday who told me the metal edging goes on top of the felt at the rake and under at the eaves. Makes sense to me.

PEG688 · March 20, 2008, 09:01:41 AM

Quote from: ScottA on March 20, 2008, 08:18:17 AM

I was talking to roofer yesterday who told me the metal edging goes on top of the felt at the rake and under at the eaves. Makes sense to me.

And IF water gets under your shingles and on top of the felt where will the water go?

It will go on top of either your sheathing and /or behind your facia , which depend on your soffits will put the water running into the enclosed area of the soffit.

The felt / ice and water shield should be on top of the metal , BUT not run in such a way as it will show / stick past the exposed edge of the metal.

Your shingle should stick past that style D flashing by 1/2" to max 1".

Think like rain , lead the rain to day light , ALWAYS !

Or not , your dime. You'll just spend more of them , dimes , repairing your roof.

March 20, 2008, 09:42:33 AM

Could someone post a picture of how that should look?

glenn kangiser · March 20, 2008, 10:14:28 AM

Let's try this and see if PEG approves.

PEG688 · March 20, 2008, 01:01:18 PM

I was talking about sloped roof , 4 in 12 and up . Your basics are right IF it was sloped.

Different details , flashing / roofing etc would apply If it where a flat roof as shown.

So what are we talking about

Maybe I'm confused

MountainDon · March 20, 2008, 02:03:16 PM

PEG, I believe the roof in question is a sloped roof. Glenn's graphic worked best if you angled your screen towards ya'.

If I understand this question and answer correctly, there are two edges, the eve and the rake, and it is normal to treat them differently. The eve edge on the sloped roof would be handles as previously described, with the weather resistive barrier over the metal drip edge.

The rake edge I understand is done differently, the metal drip edge acting as a cap over the weather resistive barrier to keep wind driven rain from getting under the weather resistive barrier.

I've also been told that leaving a slight gap between the sheathing edge and the drip strip is a good idea. That's what I've been told by the guys who did my roof.

PEG688 · March 20, 2008, 02:19:41 PM

Could be right Mtn.D , IF metal goes up what I call the rakes , the sloped edge of the roof it can go under the paper . But what happens in the long run is folks get confused and end up running ALL the metal over the felt and then at the soffits / eaves IF water get past the shingles , which it should NOT , it ends up going into the building at that soffit point.

I guess it's to hard to "Think like rain"

Add to that wind blown rain and you have more , "none simple " answers to what would seem to be a simple question

Having the style D go up the rakes is IMO a good idea , it stiffens that protruding shingle edge preventing the very often seen , "droopy edge shingle" look , which in turn becomes the rotten wood look as once the shingle droops it promotes the capillary action water has of wicking water up hill , which is yet another issue eh

There is no simple solution to this issue , or so it would seem.

The style D flashing goes a long way to prevent most of them , but few folks want to spend the few more dollars to add it to the project.

Redoverfarm · March 20, 2008, 02:22:37 PM

I too looked at the sketch and was going to say "Glenn a flat roof?" but I think he was hitting the general application showing the overhangs. Maybe he wasn't able to show it as a pitched roof. I guess your imagination has to come into play or commen sense?

March 20, 2008, 02:31:11 PM

Quote from: Redoverfarm on March 20, 2008, 02:22:37 PM

I too looked at the sketch and was going to say "Glenn a flat roof?" but I think he was hitting the general application showing the overhangs. Maybe he wasn't able to show it as a pitched roof. I guess your imagination has to come into play or commen sense?

There in lies the problem with "rough " sketches , 1/2 way details

Details must be shown to scale and well be "true" to whats really happening or they become just other confusion points.

I'm sure John R. our Architect would agree, more harm than good comes from "rough details" when it really matters.

That's why I mentioned the lack of slope on Glenn's "detail".

Redoverfarm · March 20, 2008, 02:45:50 PM

Peg I haven't mastered the attachment details of the computer or the resources to gain them. So I probably go a little over board on explanation. Which too gets very confusing. I am like alot of other people. I can do the job but have a hard time telling others how I did it.

gandalfthegrey · March 20, 2008, 04:13:46 PM

That's OK Peg, I'll just tilt my head and immagine that Glenn had it right.

PEG688 · March 20, 2008, 04:51:18 PM

Here's a photo out of Wagner's Modern Carpentry , my high school shop class book , call of 1974

Although they have a defferent flashing shown , the details are right.

Glenn or Mtn .D you may want to snag that image as it may get deleted at some point in the future when my P Bucket account fills up again.

MountainDon · March 20, 2008, 04:57:33 PM

I was just pondering making a drawing... and now I snagged a copy of that.