It has only just begun

[StinkerBell]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856.php
According to this article Medical deaths due to error each year is about 195,000 in the USA. I say we make a law restricting the use of Doctors! Oh we did that would be Obama Care, never mind.....(please read this with great sarcasam)

[rick91351]

Good article there NM_Shooter.    My own belief is that more harm is done by prescription drugs than good. That goes for drugs that affect the mind as well as other parts of the body. But then the drug companies control the medical establishment, and that is another rant. But it does have a bearing here most likely.

Ban drugs, not guns  ?

That would never happen Carla with the amount the pharmaceutical industry lobbies congress each year.   

[MikeC]

"In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun"

Well dang - someone has got to inform the Police that possession is less than effective when encountering those who intend harm - military too.  Put the gun down & back away -now that there makes sum sense.

Mebbe Fred is right:
"Today I'm going to explain why gun-control is not only entirely reasonable but also certain to be effective. Only the ignorant can deny this.

First, some orientation.  Cement-headed NRA types need to recognize, and state manfully, that the illegalization of guns is in fact perfectly practical. History has shown this repeatedly. When the government outlaws something that huge numbers of people very much want, the outlawed items immediately disappear from society. This has been shown countless times.

When Washington outlawed alcohol, booze vanished overnight and everyone stopped drinking. Can anyone deny this? When Washington banned the use of cannabis, all of those of us made insane by Reefer Madness quit smoking dope, and today there is probably not a town in America in which one might buy a joint. Similarly, Washington made illegal the downloading of copyrighted music—which also stopped immediately. No one now has illegal music. Ask your adolescent daughter.

So with guns.  They are small, easily smuggled, of high value to criminals and will be of higher value when only criminals have them, so it is virtually certain that they will vanish when the government says so.

Mexico, where I live, has stringent laws against guns, which have proved at least a partial success. Criminals have AKs, RPGs, and grenades, while nobody else has anything. That's a partial success, isn't it?

While I am in favor of illegalizing guns and thus ending crime, I think the principle should be democratically applied. Let us begin by disarming the Pentagon. If this seems unreasonable, ask yourself: who kills more children in a month, Ritalin-addled little boys in America, or the US Air Force in every Moslem country it has heard of? All I ask is an honest body count. I will accept your numbers."
more @ fred's place - fredoneverything.net/SovietAsylum.shtml

[Windpower]

Alex jones on Piers Morgan

I am not a big fan of AJ but he effectively points out the false arguments

BTW violent crime in the UK where virtually all guns are banned  is at 2000 per 100,000 people

in the US it less an one fourth that at ~ 450 per 100,000

[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/fEbBM4DG9V0[/embed]

[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/JAnKOMex_eQ[/embed]

[Squirl]

The Upenn study is a joke.  I have always hated that study.  It made huge news and was completely flawed.  They used a sample of Philadelphians involved in gun violence as a representation of the U.S. as a whole.  At best it is representative of an east coast city, but no conclusion can be drawn if you even take a cursory glance at the data.

The vast majority of victims of gun violence in Philadelphia are:
1.) Poor
2.) African American
3.) Male
4.) Have criminal records
5.) Are suspected in drug related crimes

These statistics are reported on a daily basis in every media publication in the area.  The Philadelphia Inquirer even keeps a digital map of every shooting victim with full statics such as race, age, and gender.

So when you state " As identified by police and medical examiners, they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot."

So when gang banger A, shoots drug dealer B in a shoot out, you are drawing the conclusion that both being armed didn't help either of them.

It is head slappingly stupid.

[NM_Shooter]

This is getting out of hand :

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-obama-might-use-executive-order-deal-guns_694984.html

[Carla_M]

In case anyone is still interested in this here is an interesting video about crime rate and the USA.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/important-gun-violence-video-to-share-with-friends/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ooa98FHuaU0

[Tickhill]

Seems the ridiculous keeps coming:
http://politicker.com/2013/01/bloomberg-slaps-down-criticism-of-painkiller-restriction-plan/

It might be nice if he got a dose of his own medicine.

Also, my first paycheck of the 2013 year was about $27 shorter than the last one in 2012, thanks Democrats and all you castrated Republicans, oh that's right Social Security withholdings is not considered a tax,  2014 and 2016 is coming, if we can make it that long, or if there is not executive order eliminating elections.

I don't know how much more people need to see and experience before they wake up to what is going on.

[Carla_M]

armed custodial staff in schools

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/armed-janitors-approved-school-shootings_n_2458167.html?icid=maing-grid7|netscape|dl1|sec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D256328

[ScottA]

Good to see you folks are still sane and see AJAX still has his job at the ministry of truth. 

[Redoverfarm]

Good to see you folks are still sane and see AJAX still has his job at the ministry of truth. 

Only a seasoned member would be able to distinguish that.  Welcome Back.

[rick91351]

Good to see you folks are still sane and see AJAX still has his job at the ministry of truth. 

Welcome back!

[Pox Eclipse]

Alex jones on Piers Morgan

I am not a big fan of AJ but he effectively points out the false arguments

Jones put forth some false argements of his own, such as Hitler taking the guns.  Hitler didn't take the guns, the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, passed in 1919 after the Treaty of Versaille took the guns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany#Restrictions_imposed_by_the_treaty_of_Versailles

In 1919 and 1920, to stabilize the country and in part to comply with the Treaty of Versailles, the German Weimar government passed very strict gun ownership restrictions. Article 169 of the Treaty of Versailles stated, "Within two months from the coming into force of the present Treaty, German arms, munitions, and war material, including anti-aircraft material, existing in Germany in excess of the quantities allowed, must be surrendered to the Governments of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to be destroyed or rendered useless."[1]

In 1919, the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that "all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately."[2] Under the regulations, anyone found in possession of a firearm or ammunition was subject to five years' imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 marks.

In 1938, Hitler passed the German Weapons Act, which, contrary to what Alex Jones would have you believe, liberalized the gun ban:

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:
Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]

The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]

The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]

The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]

Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or dealing of firearms and ammunition.[6]

Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.

So it was no Second Amendment, but the point is, Hitler loosened the draconian gun control laws imposed after the Treaty of Versaille, ironically demanded by ostensibly democratic Allied countries.

Now look what you've done: you've made me defend Hitler.

[Tickhill]

Looks like it came pretty easy to you.

[ScottA]

I wouldn't pay much attention to Alex jones. His main motivations are keeping himself in the spotlight and his listeners scared. All that matters is the 2nd amendment is the law and anyone trying to infringe on the right it secures is breaking the law. The only legal way to implement gun control is to amend the constitution.

[NM_Shooter]

The key here is that:

"NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions."

Go figure. 

Actually, Germany looked the other way with regards to that gun law, and it was not enforced with any enthusiasm until Hitler.  He was the one who played it to his advantage to disarm his opponents.  Not his own party, which was above the law. 

Hitler did not make the law, but he certainly used it to carefully disarm only those who were a threat to him.  Ultimately, it led to the atrocities that were committed. 

Plenty of references below :

http://kentuckysip.homestead.com/files/Nazi_Firearms_Law_and_the_Disarming_of_the_German_Jews.htm

[NM_Shooter]

Well, what do you know. 

It now appears that NO RIFLES were used in the Sandy Hook shooting.  No AR's, no AK's, nothing.

That certainly didn't stop the howling apes of the liberal left from using this to promote their restrictions on black rifles :

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

[Redoverfarm]

You just don't know what is factual anymore.   

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226

[NM_Shooter]

You just don't know what is factual anymore.   

http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226

Yeah... no kidding.  I have to put some trust in that.  Although I'd like to know more about it being carried into the school, or just used to breach the door or whatever.  MSNBC, in odd form, sure jumped all over the story about an AR not being used.  I wonder what their source was. 

[Redoverfarm]

Sort of like the game you use to play at school.  Start a subject and pass it opn and by the time it reached the end it was nothing like the original.  If you go by the Police website it states that the AR was in the school.  The news media states it was in the car when in fact the shotgun was in the car.  Clips showed the officer remove the long gun and it was cleared of the ammo like you would a shotgun so that would coincide with the officals claim.  Some persons don't actually know the difference  only that it was long.    Didn't have time to check but the coroner would be the reliable source as to what ammo was used.  Either way the media is not "fair & balanced" .

[rick91351]

........................   snip................................Some persons don't actually know the difference  only that it was long.    Didn't have time to check but the coroner would be the reliable source as to what ammo was used.  Either way the media is not "fair & balanced" .

Most all Politicos and Reporters don't know the different between a 44 Mag and a .223.  Seems most agree that over ten rounds is 9 and a half to many.

Fair and balanced is only in eye of the talking head at the time.

[NM_Shooter]

Brass on the floor would be additional data, I would also find it surprising if there were not security cameras that recorded much of the event.

[Redoverfarm]

I guess they will tell us what they want us to know.  But I bet it is a completely different story delivered to the ones that make the laws.

[UK4X4]

In regards to the "violent" crime in UK- we report the figures diferently.

To us just about every crime is included

heres just gun related homicides- from wikipedia

firearm-related death-rate per 100,000 population in one year

United Kingdom  0.25      2012
United States     10.2       2010

Not having guns in society would make a diference--------the thing is I'd rather have a gun !
and plan to at our Colorado cabin- just have to work out how !

[Redoverfarm]

--------the thing is I'd rather have a gun !
and plan to at our Colorado cabin- just have to work out how !

Better hurry at the rate that this administration is going after the 2nd Adm probably will not be that many new owners before long.