http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_346054_346054 (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_346054_346054)
It says not for washington??
How come?
There is one on CL for $150.
Probably because it isn't an airtight design, and not EPA approved. I personally, have no problems with these stoves, and it is what we planned to get, all sold out here though. There's always next season, good thing for short winters!
Frank I am not real sure but it is something like CA when it comes to emmissions and not catalyic (sp?) converter (after burner) I think. Here anything goes. That even includes the old double 55 gallon stoves kits.
Not EPA certified It says.
$330 new?? sounds cheap built. Do you suppose this would give you trouble due to cheap craftsmanship?
BAD. Cheap chinese cast iron, not airtight and not worth trying to make it airtight.
WA state has some of the most stringent rules regarding wood burning stoves. Probably not legal for new installations in a home anywhere because it's not EPA approved. Many places you could get away with it in a workshop or remote cabin.
I've seen its junior sized sibling and it was probably not worth the money charged for, IMO.
The one I saw was so leaky there's no way the fire would likely carry overnight. My opinion of course.
I spent months, most of a year, looking for the low cost, well built, safe, efficient and decent looking wood stove I 'knew' had to be lurking someplace. Never found anything that met all those factors that was less than $700 - $800. Early on I found the VC Aspen, but said 'no way - too expensive' . In the end that's what we did buy, for $50 more than the price was when I began the search.
Maybe my criteria were too picky, but I never saw a used stove that I wanted either; at least not close enough to consider.
Thanks for your replies.
Don, That's why I asked.
I knew someone had see one.
I've been eyeballing that one in your cabin. It's steep but I don't want something I'll regret later either. Kind of like cheap whiskey.
How big is your place? How cold will it get outside?
We are happy with that VC Aspen. It looks good, works well. We have 432 sq ft actual interior space. When it is quite cold it does take a while to get the cabin warm. Like it was 27 degrees inside and it took 4 hours to raise the temp to 67. Looking at that, a larger stove might be better. ??? However, we have no problem carrying a fire overnight once the cabin is warmed up; fill at 11 PM, get up at 8 AM, when it has been down in the teens overnight. Oh and that's with only R13 in the ceiling at present. Come spring that will be increased to about R50 with blown in cellulose.
We probably could have done with a plain flat folded and welded steel stove for less if we'd found a used one. It would have been larger which on the one hand could be a plus in warming up from a cold start. On the other hand we didn't want a big stove taking up more space. And I never had anyone say they didn't like the looks of it. VC makes visually appealing stoves; more so than many.
The cabin will be 16 X Actual floor space will be 301 sq ft. It will have a loft and 12 / 12 roof so it will be a large space. Judging by yours would you suggest larger or about right? I plan on R walls and R floor and ceiling.
1 wood door and 1 window per wall double pane used unkown.
I think it should be fine. One difference between our places is we have no loft, so the heat has less height to fill. I calculate we have about 3450 cu ft. With a loft and smaller floor space you may have about the same cu ft. ???
We also have a 24 VDC ceiling fan that is not yet operational; have to get the 24 VDC battery bank set up in spring. The fan will help circulate the air and should speed the warm up a bit.
With a loft will you also have a section with a cathedral ceiling? A fan would help that a lot.
I'll put a fan in.
Its not too bad during the summer but the fall gets fairly cold.
I had a stove very much like that one in the first post. Very unsafe to use IMHO. With the sq. footage you have I would go a little bigger, and use an airtight stove. The wood stove is no place to go cheap, you get what you pay for. d*
Frank,
All the comments so far are right on. WA has strickter standards than the EPA. If you like Don's, I have a very similar stove I'll sell you for $250. Was made by Waterford (Irish), has glass in the door, is EPA certified, and in nice shape. The stove has firebrick on the sides, and refractory cement in the bottom. Used it for two winters to heat my home in Lacey, but have switched to a Godin, that burns coal or wood. If you want, I can even deliver it over to your Curlew site when I head over to my cabin there in the spring. If you contact me at my regular email, I can send a pic.
Steve
sprestin@aol.com
Our old 1920 Round Oak is nearly air tight and if I wanted to reseal the joints where it goes together it could be , but it is so close to air tight that it easily holds a fire all night. It was one of the better stoves of it's day and is still excellent today. The castings are so well made that they are thin yet air tight. Not common in much of today's junk.
I have to say, I have this very stove. I heat my entire 1500 sq ft house with it. true, it's not airtight and yes I must get up and chunk it at least once during some single digit nights, but it does what a wood stove should do... heat. never could figure that california, washington thing.
that's kinda what i thought about it Zion. Sure, you get what you pay for, but sometimes a little less convenience is fine if is saves a lot of green. IMO, 6-7 hundred dollars is a lot of green, hell, thats two months mortgage! Is that all the actual benefit is to airtight? Just that it doesn't need attention overnight? I have never understood why, or what the big deal is. Better than a fireplace at heating and retaining coals I would imagine. Plus, the way I think about it, if I can buy it cheap, save up for a better one in the meantime, then sell the first one (usually for almost new cost), then where is the harm with that?
Yeah to me the name of the game is save money. Of course I should have mentioned that it only cost me $35 dollars for the stove. found it on ebay. new, still in box in north Little Rock. no reserve. man I love them auctions. I guess after 3 years use, in don't owe me anything :-)
Why would someone want to pay more for a wood stove that is EPA approved? ???
Back when catalytic converters, air pumps and all that crap was making our 1970's automobiles cost more and perform poorly, getting lousy mileage and all, I was against the rules changes. I will admit to having run a few engines without the crap that was forced on the auto makers. However, as time has passed the auto manufacturers were able to return performance and increase fuel mileage as they cleaned up the tail pipe emissions. :D Even with greater numbers of cars on the road the air is cleaner than it was in the 70's.
It's the same thing with wood burning stoves. New designs with smoke passages that allow gases to be burned further result is smoke that pollutes less. The same can be achieved with catalytic converters, though IMO, that is a second rate method as converters may need replacing. For these systems to work the stoves must be made airtight and remain airtight with little maintenance.
So again, why would someone want to pay more for a wood stove that is EPA approved?
For the same reasons they purchase more expensive organic foods, or grow their own. For the same reason some folks seek out raw milk. For the same reasons some drink bottled or filtered water. For the same reasons some avoid vaccinations. For the same reasons some folks really do not like second hand cigarette smoke blowing their way. Better health, a cleaner more pleasant environment, and sometimes to have a prettier looking stove.
In some places it means you can use your EPA listed stove any day of the year while non listed stoves and fireplaces can not. (No burn days in some places like ABQ.) There are some exceptions to the EPA rule, even in the state of WA.
As one who is generally NOT interested in government interference, I do appreciate the fact that sometimes there have been beneficial results.
Thanks for the explanation Don, makes sense. With the amount of people in this world, poorly burned fuel is definitely not too cool, whether autos, powerplants or otherwise. Is that the advantage to an airtight box though? Is that necessary to have a complete burn? I know you are not a stove manufacturer, but I don't understand how a non-airtight stove couldn't burn clean. One idea I've been thinking about, is to have a secondary burn chamber above the box, that the smoke travels through before going up the chimney. In theory, you would burn quite hot, and any unburned exhaust would combust within this second chamber through ignition heat put off by the box. Kinda like a cat, I guess. I don't understand why the box would need to be airtight for this to work though.
So I guess a fireplace would be totally against EPA, yet they still allow them to be installed. Its rather curious, actually. A totally inefficient burn, that lets off little heat, is ok, but a more (although less than EPA standards) efficient burn, that puts off more heat, and so doesn't have to burn as much, isn't ok. Of course, the hotter you burn, the fewer emissions there are anyway, so if you had that second chamber thing to keep the chimney from getting too hot, you would be back down to low emissions I would think. Kinda like how a well tuned, properly built hot rod engine, can actually have the same emissions as the new off the line stuff with all their added crap. Gotta take care of it properly though.
Without being airtight I believe it's not possible to control the burn to reduce emissions well. Your idea of a second chamber is more or less what has been done with my little wood stove. The air enters at the rear and flows towards the front on the stove, under an ash grate. This air is regulated by a thermostatically controlled flap. There is a secondary air inlet that is not regulated. It supplies air that is preheated and distributed at the top of the firebox via three multi-ported stainless steel tubes. This air is to allow full combustion of the gases given off by the burning wood, rather than have then disappear up the chimney. Try and work that into the design; makes sense to supply fresh warm air if you want something to burn. That Aspen is not as simple a little box as it looks to be.
Due to the sometimes weird and wonderful ;D ways of governmental rules, fireplaces are exempt from the EPA rules. However, the fact remains that an ordinary open front fireplace is a poor heating device; overall a net loss may be the result. There are many good inserts that give the fireplace effect (with glass doors).
WA state has the strictest rules...
Type of Device Washington Limit EPA Limit
Catalytic wood burning device 2.5 grams per hour 4.1 grams per hour
Non-catalytic wood burning devices 4.5 grams per hour 7.5 grams per hour
Factory-built and masonry fireplaces 7.3 grams per kilogram Currently no limit
As a point of reference older uncertified stoves and fireplaces can release 40 to 60 grams of smoke per hour. My Aspen is rated at 4.3. It just sneaks in under the WA limit.
WA state even has rules on moisture content (20%) of the firewood; most places it's simply common sense to use dry wood. Any new wood burning device sold, offered for sale, or given away to Washington residents must meet Washington's standards. Even devices that are exempt from EPA certification must meet Washington standards. My understanding is that means you can not install a used old non-approved wood stove in WA state.
On top of all that the state or local government can issue total bans on wood burning under some circumstances, even if the stove is an approved model. One of the few exceptions to the rules would be older homes with no other source of heat. All new construction and significant remodels there must have a non wood heat source as well.
Nice scenery in WA state; too many rules, IMO. Well, okay it is darn beautiful, :D might be worth it. :-\
My stove has a catalytic combustor. There is a gauge built into the top. Once the combustion chamber get up to about 500˚ you flip a lever and route the gasses into the chamber with the catalytic combustor. In a very short time it's up to 1000˚ or more. You can reduce the amount of air reaching the fire and maintain those temperatures without even having a flame.
I burn about 1/3 the amount of wood that my neighbors do and it heats my house better than their larger stoves. If I fill the stove it will burn through the night without adding more wood. There's not much left 8 or 10 hours later but enough coals and embers that I can put in some wood and route the air up from the bottom. In 5 minutes of so I have a roaring fire.
It has heated my house efficiently and flawlessly for over 20 years. I thought it was expensive when I bought it. It looks like a bargain now.
Sounds like a great stove John. :)
If I can ever get around to building the smaller house of my dreams it will probably have the Aspen stove like yours.
I'm looking forward to feedback when you spend more time up at the cabin. I am concerned that a stove that small won't burn through the night.
For the size of our cabin, in the weather conditions we'll be there, I think it's alright. The overnight outside temp has dropped to about 16 a couple nights that I was up there. It carried 8 - 9 hours with still having a good amount of charcoaled wood left to get the fire going again with no problem. The firebox does require splitting some wood into rather small sticks so you can insert enough wood. The next model up might be better if the weather was below zero, the cabin bigger. I don't recall the price of it, but it was several hundred more.
We had a VC Intrepid back home. It heated out 832 sq ft house fine, overnight even with -30 degrees. At those temps there wasn't much left in the firebox in the AM; just enough to get it going again though.
Here is a link to Washington state approved woodstoves. Many of the models seem to be available used.
http://www.swcleanair.org/woodstovelist.html
Good link CREATIVE1
The stove woodswalker offered to sell to me is listed on there. [cool]
You all saved me the trouble of buying the wrong stuff.
Hmmmmmmm. I read the part on that link about "Burning Cleaner",.............. :-\...................... :-\.............. I get 20 minutes to get my fire EPA legal and I get 6 minutes in an hour to stoke it?!?!?!?!?! It also says to give my fire air,.......... :-\ Airtight/More Air....Airtight/More Air...... ??? Tastes great/Less Filling d* d* d*
Guess I'll freeze to death if the wind is blowing toward my neihbor too ::)
I am sure it will be a LOOOOOOOOONG time before those restrictions make it to Arkansas!!!!!!!!! ;D
Amen cordwood. :D
There was a discussion on this stove in another topic. They sell it brand new at tractor supply for $150. $320 plus shipping is a rip-off. The other issue that came up last time was clearance. If I remember correctly this stove requires 3ft. That can be a real issue in a small place.
I have never had (or been around) a wood stove, but am considering one for the home I'm designing. If I go with the two-story Universal Cottage plans, I am concerned that heat from the woodstove (on the main floor) will not be able to heat--or at least won't reach--the living spaces on the second floor, even with fans in place. Thus, I am thinking that choosing a woodstove as the heating unit may well "force" me to go with a 1 1/2 story design, and likely an open loft option.
Thoughts?
Second issue is that, for a backup heating system, I'm thinking of going with some type of radiant heat, but I envision it sized on the small side (i.e., just big enough to keep the house at, say, 45 degrees for times when I'll be gone and can't have a fire going). I also envision putting a small old-style radiator on each floor, maybe two on the main floor. I realize that the feasibility of this is related to the square/cubic footage I'm hoping to heat, but would it be feasible to have this back-up system run off the (gas) hot water heater, provided the hot water heater is rather robust?
The reason I ask is based on past experience with doing just that (i.e., heating space with a hot water heater). Several years back I converted a big school bus to an RV that I lived in for two years. I insulated the heck out of that thing, even the floor, and installed a hydronic radiant heating system in the floor that ran off the hot water heater. Granted, the living space was small, but the thing worked like a charm (with an air thermostat that told the circulating pump when to kick on/off). Ideally, I'd like to use hydronic heat in the floors of my future cabin/home, but I want to have the primary heat source be wood, and I'm not sold on those outdoor wood-burning boilers. Thus, I'm thinking that a good woodstove (with a small gas-based backup radiant system, albeit not in the floor) is the way to go. Installation would certainly be cheaper.
Thanks in advance for thoughts and comments.
w* to the forum Charcoals.... and where do you hail from? [waiting] :)
I think the wood stove will do fine if you get a big enough one in a well insulated house.
Also you can go to the remote sides of the upstairs and duct through the wall from the floor of the upstairs to the floor of the downstairs so there will not be a tendency for the cold air wanting to fall down while the warmer is wanting to go up and interfering with each other if you find it necessary.
Another w*. I wouldn't be too concerned with the heat in the upstairs provided that you have an open floor plan in the loft area. Hot air by nature will rise. Your biggest problem will be heating the ground floor because of this tendency. In a closed floor plan as Glenn has stated a few well placed registers should heat the upstairs in that application.
We lived in a 2 story house that had grates in the second floor. When opened up, they allowed hot air to travel into the upstairs. We had a furnace as well, but rarely used it, used fireplaces instead. This was a 200 year-old colonial.
Thanks for the welcome, Glenn and Redoverfarm. I grew up on a farm in Kansas, have lived in numerous states since then, and now am set up in Minneapolis. I'm looking to find some land within about an hour's drive of the Twin Cities and then hope to start building some time next year, doing as much by myself as possible.
Cool -looking forward to seeing your progress.
Charcoals,
I built a super-insulated 2-storey universal (link below) and, if you leave the bedroom doors open, my woodstove easily heats the upstairs without any vents. In hindsight, I'd have included a vent to my son's bedroom b/c we leave his door closed at night. I also highly recommend the Dutchwest Federal Airtight (large model). I grew up in a passive solar house with this as our only other source of heat and I currently use it in my own house. I've seen them used for cheap.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1275.0
Here is just a bit of experence talking so take it for what it is worth. If youth is your thing then do nothing. Wrong. You will not be young forever. What I am referring to is the heigth of your wood stove. I set my stove on the floor level. Although it was an easy install being that there was a concrete floor. Used slate tiles and the finished product looked good. Now every time I go to fire the stove it's down on one knee. And given that I have fired my stove continuious since October that is alot of bending. As mobility decreases with age you might consider a platform up off the floor for your stove. Even 8"-1' will make the difference. There are several different avenues to go in your platform. Plywood with 1/2"concrete backer, tile or stone and a concrete poured with tile or stone. I would give it some serious thought if I were you.
I was tempted to make my fireplace at the floor heigth to replicate some authenticity to the time period in Dogtrot. But my mind kicked in and I opted for a raised hearth in lieu of the ease of tending the fire and fireplace.
Great point Red
DemianJ,
I have checked out your home many times (I've been lurking for quite a few months before my first post the other day!) and I really like it, especially the porches. I got a bit excited after I found this site and went ahead and ordered the 2-story universal cottage plans. Although that was a bit impulsive, I think that I still made the right choice (for me). I'm thinking of extending the length of the plan from 34' to 36' or even 40'. I also plan to do a full, poured basement. I grew up in the unfinished basement of our house, and although I wouldn't want to spend all of my time in one, I very much like basements for some odd reason! (Maybe it was the sense of security when tornadoes were in the area, which happened every now and then. This was western Kansas, after all!) I think part of it is how nice and cool they are in the summers.
Redoverfarm - Thanks for the tip on boosting the height of a wood stove. I just got the lastest issue of Fine Homebuilding, which has a very interesting article on low-cost radiant hydronic in-floor heating, using a hot-water heater instead of a boiler as the heat source. I very much like that idea, too. It makes sense as well, since, as the article points out, the water in a hydronic system does not need to be heated to the high temp a boiler provides, so a boiler really is overkill.
Back to the grind tomorrow. Can't wait until I can exit the rat race!
You can't go wrong on the plans because they are open to be changed to exactly what you want and the are then your design.
Charcoals,
What month is that issue of "Fine Homebuilding"? I have often thought a low-temp heating system using a regular electric hot water heater would work just fine ... but the "experts" have been very vocal against such heresy.
I seem to recall seeing, either on here or on another site, a newer type of adobe fire places which I loved. Right now my plans call for a right-return, two-sided wood stove/fireplace but I would rather have the adobe type fireplace in the corner. Does anyone know what I am rambling about here? If so, could you please direct me to where I can find it or possibly the poor man's way of building one that is safe. The probabilities given above about man's aging gave me an idea of putting in an adobe fireplace with enough height off the floor to accomodate a old fat man like me.
JRR,
The article on using a water heater as the heat source in a radiant hydronic system is in the March 2009 issue of Fine Homebuilding. I just got it the other day in the mail. (I subscribe, so maybe I got it a bit earlier than the newstands. Not sure.)
Charcoals
Maybe Andrew's Cordwood House with a Rocket Stove?
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2410.0
Also check out Kiko Denzer's cob fireplaces and my clay oven (can't make 'em code) that I know of.
http://www.grannysstore.com/Do-It-Yourself/masonry_stoves.htm
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/build_your_own_earth_oven:paperback/excerpt_2
(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/kathykrn/PICT0012_edited.jpg)
(http://members.sti.net/glennk/underground%20clay%20oven%20(2).jpg)
I've seen hot water heaters used to provide hot glycol/water to run through piping embedded in driveways and sidewalks here to keep snow and ice melted----works quite well and you don't need to set the temperature very high---only about 70 or 80 degrees as I remember.
I have a Vermont Castings wood stove at my old farm house in Wisconsin
not sure of the model but it is about 24 X 18 X 16 IRRC
I think this is the model
http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=313
it heats the 900 square foot, not too well insulated 80 year old farm house just fine in the middle of a Wisconsin winter -- I have been quite comfortable in subzero temps
I has seen moderate use for 8 years and is in fine condition
I like the 'flip up' top lid -- you can just open it and drop in another chunk of firewood
highly recomended
It has a glass panel door in the front that is nice to look at too
Quote from: Windpower on February 03, 2009, 07:23:55 AM
I like the 'flip up' top lid -- you can just open it and drop in another chunk of firewood
highly recomended
Sounds like the old Vigilant model we had. Loved the top opening. :)
Glenn, something tells me that isn't epa approved. Do you have the proper clearances? Is it airtight? How wasteful and irresponsible of you. n*
Anybody know anything about waterford stoves? I think I am going to buy one on craigslist, it is the 104 mark II I think. $100. Seems like a pretty good deal from what I've been reading on it.
I haven't burned the place down yet... ::)
course, almost the whole place is non-combustible material...I bet you've tried a time or two?
Since this is a woodstove thread, I thought I wouldn't waste new thread space with this simple question. What are the big dangers to having the exhaust go up the unlined chimney after exiting the woodstove? I ask, because as soon as we can afford it, we will be getting a full liner, but for the time being, am I just, "playing with fire" to use just a short section of stovepipe going into the bottom of the chimney? Sure would be nice to go ahead and start burning. We have been making small fires in the firebox, I keep a very close eye on how high the flames are getting as I am a bit paranoid, and I know that with a stove less heat goes up the chimney. Are chimney fires as big a concern due to the reduced flue temperatures?
Jens I am not real sure what you are calling an unlined Chimney. Is there clay or just parged block. The biggest problem with the older flues is that the parging and the mortar would give out in time and create gaps between the blocks. With just stove exhaust I doubt there would be a problem but if a flue fire would develope I doubt that the block could withstand that amount of heat . It is not uncommon for people to exhaust a wood stove into a fireplace chimney. In fact that is all an insert is. A stove w/o legs and a heat shield to block off the rest of the opening. A modern stove eliminates alot of the flammable gases which were once sent up the flue by re-burning them. So I guess alot just depends.
It is just brick. I am not sure what the original intended purpose was, coal, wood, I don't know, I just know that it has no clay liner. The mortar is in decent shape when examined from the outside. The wood stove I got is this one, http://pasurvivalprods.tripod.com/waterford.html. I would assume that the gasses would be pretty well spent, but I wonder if enough heat would go up the flue that chimney fires would be very common.
How old is it?
One thing to remember with a brick chimney is they creosote up faster than an insulated metal chimney. If you did have a bad build up of creosote and made a hot fire it's possible you could end up with a run away chimney fire.
My parents old house had brick chimneys; dated from the turn of the 20th century. They quit using the living room fireplace sometime in the 1960's as a chimney inspection showed some sort of problems.
Quote from: Jens on February 03, 2009, 03:23:02 PM
course, almost the whole place is non-combustible material...I bet you've tried a time or two?
Not a problem, Jens... If I catch the place on fire the 1" wood is rated at about a 1 hour fire wall. That means we have about an hour before the wood burns through and the dirt on the roof caves in and puts the fire out. The beams and girders should be good for 4 or 5 hours.
Sassy wants me to fire the stove up right now.
The house was built in 1930. The chimney appears to be fairly clean inside. 10x10" flue, unlined. Would a single wall stainless flex liner have major drawbacks? Enough to really worry about? I can get one for $175, vs. $400 for double wall. Alternatively, like I was saying, I could just use the chimney for now, but like I said, kinda worried about chimney fire. Is the exhaust hot enough to worry about that all the time, or just when you really have it roaring? This stove has secondary air, and combustion baffle. I'd rather not have to borrow money to get a liner in...getting cold though, and gas ain't getting any cheaper.
Well there has been a lot of discussion about wood stoves and their preformance. I thought I would post a video of my stove in the "after burner" mode. Excuse the background noise as the television was on.
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/th_100_2446.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/redoverfarm/scenes/country%20plans/?action=view¤t=100_2446.flv)
It is a difficult combination of lighting to get the stove itself to be visible as well as seeing the fire really well. Always fun to play.
Looks like a lot of heat.
Some low clearance wood stoves - the 1440 was reviewed by http://www.kk.org/cooltools/index.php
http://www.morsoe.com/us/Products/Stoves/
Not exactly cheap - the reviewed one had 7" clearance.
I have flue fires all the time! I can get easily 1' of flame rolling around the rain cap that is 12' above the fire box. Fire in the flue is not the problem with most flue/chimney applications it's the creosote that weeps between the joints to an area not intended for for fire or flames.
I will NEVER use an unlined brick/rock chimney again. It is almost impossible to be certain that wet creosote has not oozed through the cracks and in the attic area or wall space. The fire just follows the trail like gunpowder in a western movie. Metal pipe can do the same thing if it gets rusted out OR the joints are UPSIDE DOWN! d* The male ends need to go DOWN to prevent hot flaming tar from running down the outside of the pipe and creating the "Lava flowing down the mountain" look! :o
Also flue fires don't require a large fire to get started, DUST can cause a flue fire very easily! [shocked]
Quote from: cordwood on February 10, 2009, 12:18:46 PM
The male ends need to go DOWN to prevent hot flaming tar from running down the outside of the pipe and creating the "Lava flowing down the mountain" look! :o
Just to make this perfectly clear, because when I first read that my mind was still working on a mental image of the insulated chimney pipe.
The double wall insulated pipe I have worked with over the years is always installed with the male connector end pointing up, the female socket down. The female inner wall overlaps the joint of the inside to prevent leaking through the joint.
However, it is correct that the black pipe that connects between the stove and the insulated chimney, is installed with the male connector end facing down and inside the upper female end of the next pipe down the chimney.
If one is using factory made chimney pipe and related parts it would take some extraordinary effort to assemble all the parts of the chimney with any parts oriented incorrectly.
I've never seen flames coming out of a chimney cap and hope I never do. That doesn't seem right to me. ???
My Mom's boyfriend Mike, is a retired fire fighter. He told me that he has seen many chimney fires. They would usually get there after the chimney was not burning any more. He also said that it doesn't make a difference if it is the double, triple, or single wall, they all melt just the same and must be replaced after a chimney fire. They have been running stovepipe inside their chimney for the last ten years, with no problems, and he wouldn't take a chance (any more than just using wood heat, or power tools) with their house. They couldn't afford double wall at the time, so they just make sure to keep it clean, and inspect for rust, which is a very common problem, I guess.
The house we had with a wood stove in California, had only stovepipe all the way up and through the ceiling. So did the other three houses on the property. We would clean ours out with a hot burn once in a while. A little cardboard, aspen, or a tightly rolled paper bag of planer shavings works well. It would get rid of the creosote build up. Maybe there were fires sometimes, don't know! Not saying its smart, just saying...
My brother in-law argued with me over the orientation of the pipe saying I was putting mine upside down till the night his started dripping flaming creosote onto the floor and that pretty much convinced him, The pictures of him covered in white dust from the fire extinguisher I bought them for Christmas helped too!!
If it gets cold enough again and I get someone to walk me through posting pictures I will show you the flaming cap trick!!! I don't by any means recommend anyone doing this but because I installed this in MY house and I maintain it and have been heating this way for thirty years or so I feel very comfortable with my situation,.......However my wife of over twenty years does not always share my slightly off center sense of security. Considering all the broken bones (100+) I feel every time the weather changes I guess her worries may have a certain degree of merit [noidea'
Anyone come across one of these before? I'm thinking of buying it second hand. (The price is right!)
It is CSA approved and has the stickers to prove it but is not a brand I have heard of. Google turned nothing up so I was wondering if anyone had come across one before.
(https://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/alianita/countryplans/macgregorstove.jpg)
The Legend reads "MacGregor" what the significance of the kangaroos is I don't know....
look more like deer than kangas to me. looks like a nice quality stove though.
I was sure that was a joey in her pouch there ... :D
Sorry to be late getting in on this discussion, but feel my 30+ years of wood stove heating experience might be of some help. The first 10 yrs I heated with a Vermont Castings stove vented into a fireplace chimney (circa '30 house) that did have a clay flue. Had one chimney fire while at work (spouse home) that taught me the critical importance of yearly chimney cleaning. Firefighters came in like gang-busters and broke into an attic access to see if structure was starting to burn. Luckily, the clay liner contained the fire, and they didn't turn on the hoses. I would NEVER, NEVER vent a wood stove into an unlined flue. Jens, I think a single-wall, flexible stainless liner would work OK, if inspected and cleaned often. There are companies out there that can place a long tube bladder into the chimney, inflate it, and then pump refractory cement into the space between the bladder and the bricks. Makes a very good flue that will last a long time. Probably pretty expensive tho. Personally, I would not use single-wall steel pipe inside the chimney because of the numerous joints involved.