Need Advice: Break-ins and Theft of building materials

Started by Strix, September 10, 2018, 11:08:56 AM

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Strix

Hello everyone,

I'm checking in with an unfortunate update on my build. Some time within the last four weeks while I was on vacation, a break-in occurred on my property and a great many things were stolen and broken. I have several RV trailers and a small well-house which are secured with locks which have housed my build items. The thief/thieves used bolt-cutters to cut my gate lock cable, and drove in with (I assume) a truck and possibly a trailer. They cut all the metal loops which kept the trailers/wellhouse locked, but not the locks themselves, and appear to have had a long long time to go through everything. Basically anything still in a package, metal, tyvek, and small windows were taken. They also stole the alloy wheels off my pickup and were nice enough to place the brake rotors on boards... As I had limited daylight hours with which to re-secure everything, I basically boarded up all the buildings/RV's and did so from both the inside and outside. Given the time the thieves had, I doubt this would stop them if they really wanted to come back for another load.

The property is 2 hours drive from my primary residence. I am truly dumbfounded as to what to do next. I am not in a financial situation to replace all the materials at this time, and realize that these folks could really just come out and clean everything off the property within a week if they wanted to.

Does anyone have experience with theft and what did you do to prevent it? I have electric on the property, but I would have to get creative to prevent a thief from also using it should I leave it on while away... (thinking about angle grinders, etc...) There are neighbors but I believe them all to be recreational folks who are seldom around. I rarely see anyone despite having been to this property maybe 50 times.

My initial thoughts are to install day/night capable cameras and illuminate the property with IR at night. I would likely also install DSL internet at the property and send back data while away, but that is one of several options... Other thoughts are motion-sensor activated security lights, sonic "booby-traps" which make unpleasantly loud noise if doors are opened... I know I cannot install anything to harm an intruder without threat of being prosecuted for any harm inflicted. (Though I wish I could...)

I would likely need to give up on this project if the remaining materials are stolen from the property. I welcome all and any advice you folks might have! Thanks


Redoverfarm

Hind sight is 20/20 but I might suggest a well hidden game camera .  Given your remote location I doubt that you will be able to completely safeguard your property.  At least with the camera you should be able to capture the individuals physical appearance or vehicle discription possibly s vehicle tag #.  This may help to track down the individuals when given to a law enforcement officer.  Yes report it,  they may not be able to recover the property but then again maybe.  But it makes them aware of the incident to a particular area and time frame and it maybe be possible to associate your incident with others nearby and may clear it in the future.  If you install a security system which will alert you to an intruder you will need to make law enforcement aware of your location so at some point you may notify them if you get alerted to a breaking.  Neighbors close by can also help if they are reliable.  If nothing else to watch for vehicles entering or exiting the area. 

I had a neighbor who installed s system which incorporated both alarms and cameras and had the capability to call a predetermined number (neighbor or police). Which worked well.

The said part is that the person who committed it probably resold the items for penny's on the dollar.


SouthernTier

Strix:  Very sorry to hear about your bad luck.  :(  In some ways, I am surprised this doesn't happen even more often, other than the fact that building materials are heavy and bulky making it difficult to make off with them.

Once I started my build, I worked with my insurance agent to insure the build prior to completion.  Although the main concern was if it were to burn down or whatever prior to insuring it as a regular cabin, it also included theft of materials.

I have read a wide range of experiences on this board about people trying to get insurance for their builds.  Some easier than others.  I got mine through an agent I have used for 25+ years, and the underwriter was NY Central Mutual which someone else here said was good for this type of coverage.

A little too late for that now, but something for others reading this thread to consider.

MountainDon

Very sorry to hear about the theft.  We have been down that road two years ago, not with construction materials but with a completed cabin and two outbuildings.  We are also in a remote location, not visible to anyone on a public road anywhere near the property. But not invisible to satellites. Also not invisible to folks who grew up in the area.

One thing I learned is that being remote has the disadvantage of affording the thieves plenty of time to break in and sort through everything. I believe they had been on site since the day before. The only reason they got caught was one of them also got stupid and rode the ATV they stole from us on a public road. A local deputy saw that and pulled him over.

They stole my game cameras. Lesson learned from that was we need at least two cameras; one to be found and the other very well hidden.

They saw the video surveillance cameras up under the eves but were clever enough to figure out the blind spot, break into a shed and use a ladder I had there and approach the camera from behind. Cut the cord and smash camera for good measure. Unfortunately, that led them to discover the cameras were decoys, very real but not really connected.  Lesson learned there was to have more cameras, no blind spots and have a real-time connection to a security service ar at least to a remote DVR and alarm on your phone or the PD department.  We have not done that as it entails an available cellular connection and power. We're nowhere near the power grid, so power is 100% solar and battery.

I do have an improved motion detector light system that I made up. It operates on 12 VDC so does not need the inverter running all the time. The motion sensors do not use much current unless the lights (LED) are activated. Even then the power use is minimal.  But they are only of deterrent use at night.

With available power on site, plus available DSL you should be able to put together a system that will alert prowlers with lights at night and to record their activity anytime with a lesser cost than all off grid would need.
 
Personally, I don't think loud noises are of any help when remote.

Best of luck.

Oh, Yes definitely report to the police. Our county Sheriff detectives came out and photographed everything. Unfortunately, nothing other than the ATV was recovered, along with a shotgun they took from our cabin and had on the ATV at the time the guy was topped. The only good part was these guys were caught and stopped a months-long series (30+) of area burglaries. From what I hear nobody has taken up where they left off.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

CabinNick

If you have good cell service at the property, there are some trail/game cameras now that automitically text or email pictures to your phone.  You have to pay a monthly service fee for the cellular service.   I wish I had better cell service at our property to use this method; I suspect we will have break-in/theft issues as well. 


Rys

What a bite! Hope you're able to figure something out.

JRR

We have a cabin and property that is 2 hrs away.  We are very lucky to have good neighbors that we engage with very much.  (Birthday,  Seasonal gifts for grand kids, etc.)   We pay their kids well to maintain the grass lawns; and invite all to walk the property whenever they wish.  We can expect a phone call if anything seems amiss.  There still have been some; easy-picking, minor, thefts from out-buildings, but nothing has been taken from the main cabin which is in their easy view.  We never go to the cabin without checking in with them, at least by phone ... and we often have a good ole porch visit and chat.  We try not to be an imposition, and in fact I have been able to help them with some "free" auto repairs.  ("Free" if I ignore the priceless attention we get.)


Strix

I have been pondering whether it is better to install visible lighting along with cameras or to use no-glow IR lighting and night-vision cameras. Any thoughts? The camera system I am considering basically does both at once and is fairly cheap... (ie I can buy 6 of them) Visible lighting seems like it might act more as a deterrent and would allow licence plates to show up more readily on a camera system, but the IR would make it difficult for a thief to know there is any recording going on at all... Visible light would also imply that the power is turned on, which I'd rather they not know... Any cameras or lighting could be easily defeated if the thief finds them, so redundancy would be key here as well...

I am also toying with the idea of building a shed of sorts out in the rather impassible part of my property, hidden from view anywhere, and moving the remaining valuable (hand carryable) items in and sealing the thing shut. Or burying items which will not be affected by moisture... Plastics, tyvek, glass, rigid insulation, etc... It's all a huge amount of extra effort to secure this stuff now since any of it could disappear.

I have one trailer which is packed floor to ceiling with lumber and only has one door or window big enough for the material to come back out of. I am planning to take another heavy trailer and park it within a few inches of the lumber trailer, effectively making there no actual exit save for cutting into the trailer itself.

Heading back up there this Saturday, praying that we haven't had a repeat visit from this thief...

Dave Sparks

"we go where the power lines don't"


Strix

This building project was to be a recreational cabin for my family and I to stay in while improving the property.
The end goal was to have somewhere for hunting deer and to grow timber as a financial investment... That being said, the property would be unoccupied for a majority of the year.

Turns out the DSL service does not extend up the dirt road as I had been told. It would be cellular or satellite internet only as far as options go. Both are very expensive. It would be fairly difficult for me to set something up where I can monitor it from here in the cities, but I will continue thinking on this...

I did call the Sheriff's office today after much discussion of what the hell to do next with friends/family, and they have asked me to speak with a deputy and give further description of the theft...
The Sheriff was irritated that I'd waited this long to report, so to anyone out there who finds themselves in my shoes, tell your law officer(s) ASAP!

Not sure what is next for me here. My co-owner of the property sounds like he would like to jump ship and sell the property. This is going to be such a messy affair to sort out, I am certain.
Thanks for your input, everyone. I'll report back with what I decide to do to. I have plenty of ideas now, but none of which are cheap/easy. Wishing people could just be honest and fair!

-S

Dave Sparks

Thanks for the explanation! It is a tough one to solve. I have people doing what you are doing offgrid but they do finally move in. Until then, we can monitor Outback and Schneider electric power systems remotely with a cellular account. $40 a month and $300 in electronics and some power.

You could skip the power system and have a cell, battery, and some solar. If you really love the place you should keep looking. Otherwise just use the place and sleep on it. 

Good Luck!
"we go where the power lines don't"

PHU

Sorry for your lost! If ONLY you can leave a few dogs around to guard your property, that would be the BEST deterrent method to keep those hyenas out!!!. Unfortunately, your distance doesn't allow you to do that.  I think we all face the same dilemma with bad people stealing.  It seems to me that no matter what security measures you have in place, these hyenas will do whatever it takes to get what they wanted and they will find a way to take it from you.  I don't have a solution for your problem....but my advice is, DON'T be discouraged by these thieves, you get smart and you make sure you captured them no matter how long it takes.  These people have NO CONCEPT OF DECENCY nor RESPECT for anyone! 

Kingrace78

I really feel your pain!  My off grid property was broken into, just found it yesterday.  They cut the chain on the gate then crashed through the garage door on the steel building.  They took the generator and some miscellaneous stuff, tractor and boats were not touched.   Does anyone know of  good camera system that can be used off grid? I have cellular signal and could set up a small solar system for power.  I would need to monitor from home and be able to record off site incase the DVR is stolen or destroyed.  I am looking for any suggestions. 
Thanks for any help, John

JRR

My power company (Ga Power) offers sales info on security systems.   I've never looked into it, but they would be the first on my "list".

About canines, I have a friend whose dog "got loose", and a walking passerby "hit him with a lunch pail".   (My friend insists the dog would have done no harm if the guy hadn't attacked with the pail. ...??.  The bite was pretty severe,  Made impressive photos and emergency room records.)  Any way, the first suit was for three million dollars US ... which friend has.   The final settlement was for around $500K, I am told.  Quite a lawyer!  Quite a lunch pail!

I have watch-cats, not dogs!


Dave Sparks

#14
Quote from: Kingrace78 on October 10, 2018, 09:12:51 AM
I really feel your pain!  My off grid property was broken into, just found it yesterday.  They cut the chain on the gate then crashed through the garage door on the steel building.  They took the generator and some miscellaneous stuff, tractor and boats were not touched.   Does anyone know of  good camera system that can be used off grid? I have cellular signal and could set up a small solar system for power.  I would need to monitor from home and be able to record off site incase the DVR is stolen or destroyed.  I am looking for any suggestions. 
Thanks for any help, John


What is your power system? It all starts with how you will power the alarm/camera and get out to the web?
"we go where the power lines don't"

Kingrace78

Dave, I do not have any power now.  Would a small solar system with batteries  be enough to power a security system?
Thanks

Kingrace78

Dave, do you design or sell solar systems?  I could use an upgrade, I only have an old small panel that is used to keep the boat battery charged.


Dave Sparks

Yes I just happen to do that....If you look at my website on the left here, there is an e-mail address. Please e-mail and I will send you my client e-mail.

For others the key here is as the OP stated to inform law enforcement. They often solve these crimes, they just need to know.

It really sucks that this happens, but unattended structures offgrid or ongrid are easy prey and steps must be taken to prevent this.
Otherwise, it just keeps happening.

On the other hand, I have clients so remote that they are just about as safe from this crime as they can be.

It is usually someone who knows the area and once (or still does) lived nearby.
"we go where the power lines don't"

PHU

Quote from: Dave Sparks on October 10, 2018, 11:51:35 AM
Yes I just happen to do that....If you look at my website on the left here, there is an e-mail address. Please e-mail and I will send you my client e-mail.

For others the key here is as the OP stated to inform law enforcement. They often solve these crimes, they just need to know.

It really sucks that this happens, but unattended structures offgrid or ongrid are easy prey and steps must be taken to prevent this.
Otherwise, it just keeps happening.

On the other hand, I have clients so remote that they are just about as safe from this crime as they can be.

It is usually someone who knows the area and once (or still does) lived nearby.


The cops should try to SOLVE these crimes, because it's people like us that BRING their community the $$$$$.   ;D ;D ;D

MountainDon

The police do as well as they can. We do need to report the thefts and break ins. Not every event is going to be solved right away.  September of 2016 our cabin was burglarized. It is a recreational property, off the beaten track, not visible from any public road. Visible via Google maps, etc. though.  With that burglary we got lucky as one of the 2 brothers took our ATV from the barn and rode it down the FS road to where it intersects with state highway 4.  He was seen by a police deputy who stopped him.  Long story made short = he was arrested, his brother was arrested and that put a stop to a year long series of burglaries in the area. 

The guy on the ATV received a 5 year suspended sentence. A part of that involves repayment of the cost of those items we had receipts for. He is working and the state is handling repayment. $100 a month is the goal. I will know better how that works sometime later as the wheels of justice move slowly. The first payment is due next month. $2910 is the total we could backup with receipts.

The brother is doing time as he already had a long record.

So, yes, report thefts.  Also keep receipts filed in a safe spot.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


Kingrace78

I reported my theft as soon as I saw the break in.  The sheriff came out looked around and created a report.  I gave him a list of stolen items with the serial numbers.  Not sure of everything that is missing but sometime I am bound to go get something I need and it will be gone, oh yeah that was stolen.


Does anyone have a game camera that has a cellular card in it?  I am looking at a Spypoint that the cell service is free up to 100 pictures a month or has a small fee for more.


Thanks John 

DaveOrr

Quote from: Redoverfarm on September 10, 2018, 11:35:55 AM
Hind sight is 20/20 but I might suggest a well hidden game camera .  Given your remote location I doubt that you will be able to completely safeguard your property.  At least with the camera you should be able to capture the individuals physical appearance or vehicle discription possibly s vehicle tag #.  This may help to track down the individuals when given to a law enforcement officer.  Yes report it,  they may not be able to recover the property but then again maybe.  But it makes them aware of the incident to a particular area and time frame and it maybe be possible to associate your incident with others nearby and may clear it in the future.  If you install a security system which will alert you to an intruder you will need to make law enforcement aware of your location so at some point you may notify them if you get alerted to a breaking.  Neighbors close by can also help if they are reliable.  If nothing else to watch for vehicles entering or exiting the area. 

I had a neighbor who installed s system which incorporated both alarms and cameras and had the capability to call a predetermined number (neighbor or police). Which worked well.

The said part is that the person who committed it probably resold the items for penny's on the dollar.

I have 3 game cameras hidden around my property.
Haven't had any one around so far other than rabbits, fox and a couple of bears.
Dave's Arctic Cabin: www.anglersparadise.ca

Kingrace78

I bought and installed a Spypoint trail camera pointing towards the entrance of my building.  It seems to work well.  It records video and pictures on the SD card in the camera and will send 1 picture to their app on my phone via cell service, whenever the motion detector is triggered.  I have it hooked to a large deep cycle battery that has a solar charger. I have the camera hidden so hopefully it will not be stolen. 
Thanks John

Dave Sparks

A smart thief will wear a mask and just find the solar panel or the battery, so this needs to be very well hidden. Hard to hide a solar panel....

I think it is better to just go there once a month and rotate the battery which can be hidden easier than a solar panel.
"we go where the power lines don't"

Alan Gage

Sure am sorry to hear of your problems. I honestly don't know what I'd do in your case. I'm trusting to a fault and rarely lock anything up. I'd be very demoralized and might have a hard time continuing in the same location. Hope you persevere and get your place built.

Alan