I am wanting to know the proper way to install a wood burning chimney in my house? Do I need to run stainless insulated pipe from the wood burner all the way out the roof or can I run the stainless pipe only when it passes thru the floor and the ceilings and metal pipe in between?
Thanks Mark
Let's assume you are running the chimney straight up, not out the stove rear.
You can run black pipe (stovepipe) from the stove up to within 18" of the ceiling. Black pipe must have 18 inch clearance to combustibles, that's the rule. With proper heat shields that distance can be reduced some, but without looking it up I doubt that it can be reduced to less than 12 inches.
Then you must transition to triple wall (air spaced) or dual wall insulated pipe. IMO, the best choice is stainless steel inside and outside with thermal insulation packed between. That continues up through the roof where it is topped by the cap and spark arrestor screen. The insulated pipe must have a 2 inch clearance from combustibles all the way up. No switching back and forth.
Yes a two story run of S/S pipe is not cheap, but the only real safe alternative is masonry and that'll be a real bundle of money to install in new construction and an even bigger bundle to retrofit.
In looking into a wood stove for my place, I have found out that the cost of the stove itself is the least of your worries. The pipes are quite expensive.
You do not want to compromise though. If you think about it, fire and wood do not generally mix to well together (well, they do but in a bad way!). I am going to take the time and save the money up to do it right!!
Check out this website. It has double wall instead of triple wall. They claim is just as good.
http://www.selkirkcanada.com/
They sell this at Lowes.
Kevin
I've used the Selkirk chimney, the latest time was for the chimney in my gazebo. Selkirk was the brand I used for my first wood stove 30 years ago. It was made in my home town.
It uses an inner and outer stainless double wall construction AND is stuffed with insulation between the walls. It's some kind of mineral composition I believe, gray in color. Way back it used to contain asbestos. The chimney still gets warm to very warm on the outer layer of steel.
Triple wall chimney has no insulation material inside. There are three concentric tubes. There are two variations, one is air insulated, that is air is held captive in each section and is the insulating medium. The other uses the thermo siphon action of heated air to provide cooling as air rises through the entire assembled chimney.
As long as the chimney is Class A rated it is good chimney. For some reason I prefer the insulated double wall, all stainless steel.
One note: Do not attempt to mix brands. Sometimes they may seem to fit, but maybe not perfectly. Don't take a chance with fire/chimney's.
I installed my stove and chimney three years ago by myself, with no knowledge what-so-ever about installation. I spent alot of time researching and reading before my attempt, and to this day all is well. I used 5 feet of the stainless double-wall insulated chimney. It shoots out 3 feet above the roof, with approx. 20 inches sitting inside a cathedral support box, a metal box about 16 x 16 inches, then the bottom drops into the cabin the rest of the way and onto the black stove pipe. The 5 feet of stainless chimney was right at 100 bucks just for that. The stove itself was 160.00. Including the stove pipe, rain cap, chimney cone, etc etc, I spent right at 425.00...
I actually worked for a couple of days out of town, so sorry if this was already mentioned -- didn't read well, but your pipe must extend above the roof to a point, minimum 2 feet above the nearest point within a 10 foot radius ( the nearest point 10 feet away). I don't think this has changed over the years.
The insulated or triple wall pipe will prevent some of the creosote build up also as it will run hotter inside, preventing condensation of at least some of the creosote. Don't ask me how I know. [crz]
Glenn....yes, I believe those regulations are still in play---for your own safety basically. The requirements are there to prevent any downdraft from rolling over the ridge of the home and forcing the smoke back into the living space. They describe it like water going over a waterfall. Wind will roll down the side of a roof just like a waterfall, thus blowing in, instead of carrying the smoke out and away.....jb
Quote from: jb52761 on April 12, 2008, 09:27:45 AM
The 5 feet of stainless chimney was right at 100 bucks just for that.
Can you still get it that "cheap" anywhere nowadays? I can't find Class A pipe for any less than about $40/foot!
I wasn't sure I remembered correctly so I looked it up. The 6" diameter S/S insulated Selkirk class A I bought at Lowes last year was $48 for a 24 " section, the 36" was $67.
Thats pretty close..115 bucks...I bought the 2 foot and the 3 foot....I knew it was somewhere around 100.....got mine at Menards, although I have issues with that place....not the store or merchandise, just some of the people working there....don't ask any questions, just know what you are after. Some of the folks at this store are a pork chop short of a full grill when it comes to knowing anything about what they are selling... ::)
Check out this comparison shopper page. You enter in some parameters of your system, and it gives you a ballpark:
http://mb-soft.com/juca/info/chim1.html
While out of date, it does give you a good idea of the BOM for the chimmney.
-f-
FWIW, what I found when I was looking for insulated chimney for the gazebo chiminea last year was IF you can use 6 inch pipe you can not beat the Selkirk chimney at Lowe's, IF they carry the parts you need. They don't carry stuff like 30 or 45 degree elbows, or cathedral ceiling mount kits. Selkirk makes it, Lowe's simply doesn't stock it.
Anyone looking for specialty flue and liner items, might want to bookmark this site. I stumbled into their site and looked at a few of their on-line catalogues. Haven't bought anything yet.
.
http://www.elmerspipe.com/
Mentioning chimineas ... I have one that has endured rough out-in-the-weather fire-pit service for years. No cracks. It seems to me a masonry furnace liner made out of similar clay material would be a great problem solver. ??
What are the clearances from combustibles required for stovepipe (black)? We live for a year in a house that had a woodstove, with just stovepipe going all the way up and through a steel plate in the roof. I think the plate kept the pipe a good distance from the wood. I don't remember any stainless at least. We used that little stove as our only heat, and didn't have any problems. It had been in use up there for about 15 years without any problems.
$100 is cheap insurance, even for this cheapskate, just wondering what the clearances are, curious about it now that I have read a bit more about the proper ways.
single wall black pipe 12", double wall black pipe 9" IIRC.
You guys are freaking me out. Its going to be about 18' of 8" pipe to chimney my woodstove $$$$! :(
Quote from: considerations on January 20, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
You guys are freaking me out. Its going to be about 18' of 8" pipe to chimney my woodstove $$$$! :(
You can take single wall up until the roof and a ceiling bucket then put in triple wall through and above 2' above the highest point within a 10 foot radius. You need clearance from combustibles for the mentioned distances inside.
If anyone knows something wrong with that let me know.
What part of the house is the stove in, considerations - sorry if you already posted it somewhere - short on time lately.
Quote from: considerations on January 20, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
You guys are freaking me out. Its going to be about 18' of 8" pipe to chimney my woodstove $$$$! :(
We're in the same dilemma, needing a permanent outdoor chimney pipe for our rocket stove, preferably insulated. We need about 25'. Last winter we needed something fast and cheap, so we just got a bunch of galvanized furnace pipe. I think it was under $40, and it's still holding up through a second winter just as good, if not better than the painted single-wall chimney pipe.
But yeah, we have to think of something permanent that won't break the bank sooner or later...
Quote from: Ernest T. Bass on January 20, 2009, 12:28:55 AM
...so we just got a bunch of galvanized furnace pipe...
At the temperatures that wood burning stoves run it is a very bad idea to use galvanized pipe for the chimney, especially the piping nearest the stove. Zinc is the material used for galvanizing. Zinc when heated to a high enough temperature gives off poisonous fumes. It is most dangerous when welding metals with galvanized plating. Symptoms are akin to the flu. However, repeated exposure can lead to emphysema.
Unfortunately all the insulated pipes are not cheap; doesn't seem to matter who makes it, whether it's double wall with rock wool insulation or triple wall S/S air vented/cooled pipe. But it's better than slowly poisoning yourself and others.
Glenn's pretty much got it.
The single wall stove pipe can be run up no closer than 12" from the ceiling IIRC. It is then transitioned to the insulated double or triple wall stainless steel chimney pipe. The insulated pipe then runs up through the upper spaces and roof.
I used a 'drop mount' from the ceiling joists. The insulated pipe sits in it and a 12" insulated pipe connects to the lower end, extending into the room. Then there's the converter coupling to connect to the single wall black pipe.
Can your stove also use 6" pipe considerations. Some can, some can't. It would save some money. I've found Lowe's to have a great price on 6" Selkirk chimney on those parts they carry.
If you buy the telescoping type of welded seam black single wall pipe for the stove - up connection it makes the job much easier and it looks much tidier. Snap seam single wall pipe never gives you a nice round shape in my experience. The welded seam telescoping pipe should be available at any good stove dealer. The boxes do not carry it.
Additional note on metal fumes. Cadmium is even more dangerous than zinc. Cadmium is used for plating metals for corrosion resistance. Cadmium is also used in some plastics as colorants or stabilizers. Safe until burned and inhaled. :D Cadmium will kill you. It causes kidney damage that is irreversible.
Cadmium plated bolts are frequently used. It provides corrosion resistance without the need for the thicker zinc coating. It's better than zinc for bolts that need to be torqued to specs. Used in airplanes a lot I believe.
One reason to dispose of NiCad batteries properly instead of land filling them.
Yeah, I should have clarified...
We did not use any galv. pipe in the house, or anywhere near the stove. By the time the flue gases get to the galv. stack outside, they're only a couple hundred degrees.
That's good to hear. Nobody needs any heavy metals in their body.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 20, 2009, 01:48:46 AM
That's good to hear. Nobody needs any heavy metals in their body.
Some people like it a lot. I used to listen to Metallica and Guns N Roses, though I wouldn't consider them heavy metal.
System of A Down, Serj Tankian and Primus here, Jens. [crz]
I have to do it to wake up. d*
I'm trying to lay off the zinc though. [waiting]
"What part of the house is the stove in, considerations - sorry if you already posted it somewhere - short on time lately."
Almost in the middle, both fore and aft and thwartships. It is in the "L" of the staircase, which, except for the enclosed-under-the-stairs-part is open. I think the pipe will be at least 18" from everything until it hits the roof. This is a straight up, no bends installation.
I'm planning on a heat shield behind the stove up to about the back of the flue, which is about 6" above the stove. (its actually a part of the stove).
The dream:
(https://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk265/considerations/My14x24Option02h.jpg)
The reality. It will actually stand on a wood box that is about 18" tall. That post on the left is exactly in the middle of the 14' house width.
(https://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk265/considerations/HPIM1038.jpg)
This picture of the stove by the stairs is a tad confusing to me. Seems it is quite close to alot of wood...or, lets say, combustables...I need to study this more....the picture is making me really nervous.....jb
It's sometimes dufficult to tell distances looking at a photo. Every stove should have a label or metal plate on the rear that gives minimum clearances. As long as those are followed there should be no problems with safety.
"Seems it is quite close to alot of wood...or, lets say, combustables...I need to study this more....the picture is making me really nervous"
Don't worry, she's not anywhere ready to be hooked up, and the stairs are far from done. I have no intention of working this hard to get this far and then burn the whole thing down because I cut corners on the stove installation. No way.
There are tons of shielding options, and I've got a pretty good grip on how to make the heat move forward, not backward. There may be an optical delusion in the pic, as there is plenty of room for clearances in the "L".
I put a tiny stove into the office and so I've had one practice run already. The chimney costs were minimal because of the size of the stove and the height of the roof.
The single wall option may work...I'd not researched that far ahead.
I hadn't really thought about the $'s for this chimney. I try not to think too far ahead or it gets a little overwhelming.
Obviously you have installed a stove before. I was just concerned for your safety as it is a little hard to determine the required clearances. Please don't think I was judging your intelligence. Wouldn't want anything to happen to my forum friends here......jb
"Please don't think I was judging your intelligence."
Not at all, and my apologies if my response was "too direct". Seems to be a talent of mine. ;)
If I wasn't looking for input, I would not post. And this is the one place that I spend any time doing just that. There are so many places in this world where not speaking freely is the best way to keep things running smoothly.
The only places on this forum I stay pretty silent on are the religious and political threads. I've found this to be a pretty good policy for me.
Come on in, the water's fine.... rofl
Something I haven't seen mentioned that has come up on my triple wall pipe before is animals nesting in the space between the layers of pipe. I have had to remove bird and mouse nests from the outer space on mine even with hardware cloth over the opening. To the best of my knowledge it isn't supposed to be sealed up or it won't transfer heat properly?!?!
I have never had a problem in the burning season, Only in spring when everthing gets frisky. ;)
Quote from: cordwood on January 23, 2009, 07:10:46 PM
To the best of my knowledge it isn't supposed to be sealed up or it won't transfer heat properly?!?!
That's right. Triple wall works by having cooling air being able to circulate freely.