Builder wannabe frustration

[ailsaek]

I am well and truly bitten by the building bug.  I look at pictures of partially built houses and salivate and imagine myself doing it (although I've never run a curcular saw, just the Sawzall).  I lust after pneumatic nailers.  I've even started dreaming (as in literall, in my sleep) about earth-bermed houses.

The thing that makes me feel strange, though, is that we could afford to buy a much bigger house than we can build, but I still want to build, cos if we build a house, I'll have gotten to help build it, whereas if we buy, all I get to do is paint the interiors and put up a few shelves.  I've found a possible plot of land (http://www.homesforsaleinma.com/propertydetail.cfm?mls=70299366) and in my opinion anyway, we'd have enough left to build one of the simpler FirstDay cottages and then add on later.  DH wants to wait until we have more money and can do something grander, with timberframing and SIPs and someone else doing most of the work.

And I being completely impractical, preferring to have something smaller but that I have helped build?  I suggested to DH that I could drive him to the train and then head up to the site every day this summer to work on the house and let our daughter (she's 19) get our son from the school bus at the end of the day, and I wasn't entirely kidding.

[glenn-k]

I'm with you Ailsa.

We have 2 houses - one built by someone else - added on to and remodeled by me in the valley.  I stay there when I have to.  The other house is someone elses place adapted to my uses.  The Underground cabin is me.  Most of the boards, sawed on my mill - windows, antiques, scrounged here and there, dirt piled on the roof - all the work there done by me, my wife and a few friends --- things done the way they did it before the start of time.  The house in the valley - sanitary - sheetrock - texture -tile -vinyl - like everyone elses.  The Underground cabin - spontaneous - rustic - growing, exciting, entertaining - Not for everyone -- but it is my place and each thing is there - functional and the way I wanted it at the time but easily changed in the future.

I'm not a Bible thumper but I remember this scripture - in Isaiah 65 --"Men shall build houses and live to inhabit them, plant vineyards and eat their fruit; they shall not build for others to inhabit nor plant for others to eat."

Sounds more satisfying to me.

Does a Robin build a house for a cat - a Hawk build a house for a Swallow, a beaver build a house for a Cougar, a human build a house for a troglodyte?  No -- we all know what we like and will never really be satisfied in the cookie cutter houses of the modern day cardboard box builders, unless we allow ourselves to be easily shaped to fit someone elses mold.

When you take a set of plans - make it out the way you like it and build it, then it is your house.

[benevolance]

Wow,

Glen in all the time I have been here and conversed with you...Never have you said anything more meangingful and to the point...Bravo!

Can I quote?

-Peter

[glenn-k]

Garsh, Peter,    I'm so flattered.  Please do ---it may be the last time I ever have a meaningful thought.  I'd like to be known for something.

[peg_688]

I'm with you Ailsa.



I'm not a Bible thumper but I remember this scripture - in Isaiah 65 --"Men shall build houses and live to inhabit them, plant vineyards and eat their fruit; they shall not build for others to inhabit nor plant for others to eat."

Sounds more satisfying to me.

 Humm content Vs. contex Isa. 65: 21-22. Glenn very good  :)New Heavens and a New Earth  

  Ailsa might also look at Luke 14: 28-30 , ending with "This fellow began to build but and was not able to finish."    

 Contex cost of being a disciple, content access the total project ," You can do it " , We  can help "   And unlike Home Depot we won't charge you   [highlight]But your [/highlight][highlight]the one who has to go "do it "rain / shine / wind / hale / to hot / to cold / , Hell [/highlight][highlight]anyone can build in good weather[/highlight] , Takes a nut to do it year round, IMO  ::)PEG  

[glenn-k]

Good point, PEG.  I just spent the last 2 days and 2 last week working in a jobsite that had up to 2 feet of mud and water in it---I stayed clear of most of it, but still not much fun.

Ailsa, maybe the reality is that all you would have time for is to find a set of plans you like - modify the design to suit you, then get bids to do the things you don't  have time to do.  Sometimes if you understand the process quite well and act as your own contractor you can save some but then again if you don't fully understand the process and a few things fall through the cracks - it could cost more than dealing with a good general contractor who will oversee the whole thing and make sure it gets done.  Choose a contractor carefully though.  Ultimately you are the one who knows what you are able to do.  I want you to be confident but not overconfident and get into more than you can handle.

If you haven't built before, even trying to build a doghouse or greenhouse etc. from a set of plans will give you some insight into whether you want to take on a much larger project or not.  Commuting to and from a building site as well as security of tools and materials can really eat into building time  if you are not there all the time.  PEG's right-- lots of things to consider.

Note that if you buy into a planned community you will probably not have the option of designing your own -your crackerbox must look the same as one of the six crackerbox models you are allowed to choose from.

[ailsaek]

Ailsa, maybe the reality is that all you would have time for is to find a set of plans you like - modify the design to suit you, then get bids to do the things you don't  have time to do.  Sometimes if you understand the process quite well and act as your own contractor you can save some but then again if you don't fully understand the process and a few things fall through the cracks - it could cost more than dealing with a good general contractor who will oversee the whole thing and make sure it gets done.  Choose a contractor carefully though.  Ultimately you are the one who knows what you are able to do.  I want you to be confident but not overconfident and get into more than you can handle.

Thanks for all the encouragement.  I still have hopes that we might build, but it's looking more & more like we buy this time (althogh DH has at least contacted the mortgage company to get pre-approved finally), so maybe once we're in I'll try building myself the writing shed I've always wanted and see how that goes.  Maybe I'll cut my teeth on that watchtower of jonsey's  

If you haven't built before, even trying to build a doghouse or greenhouse etc. from a set of plans will give you some insight into whether you want to take on a much larger project or not.  Commuting to and from a building site as well as security of tools and materials can really eat into building time  if you are not there all the time.  PEG's right-- lots of things to consider.

Well, my gingerbread houses never fall down.  Does that count?

Yeah, I think starting with building myself a nice shed would be good practice.

Note that if you buy into a planned community you will probably not have the option of designing your own -your crackerbox must look the same as one of the six crackerbox models you are allowed to choose from.

Ugh.  Yeah.  I'm very careful to check for "No builder tie-ins" on any land listing I consider.  I don't want to be stuck with some damned McMansion just cos I didn't read the fine print.  The only way I want to deal with a planned community is if I'm the one doing the planning.

[glenn-k]

We'll be glad to help you with your shed if that's what works out for you.  Now about those Gingerbread houses.......... :-/

[peg_688]

 Ah just go for it what could go wrong  . Here's a photo of a  expert , LCDR. with lots of hours , doing some thing easy , he'd done it MTY 100 plus times before this happened .  

  Ask / research the data , constuction injuriers / deaths , make Nav / Air look safe  .  




 


  Really simple stuff done hundreds of times a day at sea all over the globe .  

As my neighbor  said to me once "How hard can it be " , well it's all relative to what YOU can do .  PEG

[Daddymem]

Are you married to the Town of Methuen?  There are more affordable Towns in MA.  I live here and I work as a Civil Engineer, I'd be more than happy help out a bit.

[ailsaek]

Are you married to the Town of Methuen?  There are more affordable Towns in MA.  I live here and I work as a Civil Engineer, I'd be more than happy help out a bit.

DH is being transferred from Boston to North Reading, so we're looking for a place within about 25 minutes' drive of there.  Lawrence is cheap, but we don't want to live there because of the crime rate and the school system.  Anyplace north is cheaper that Sharon, where we live now - or at least that's how it seems at times.

Towns we're looking at currently are Methuen, Haverhill, Lowell, Dracut, Tyngsboro, Billerica, Chelmsford, and Tewksbury, plus Salem and Pelham in NH.  Methuen seems to be a nice place, though, with lots of houses under 300K.  

I've been doing my town research here: http://www.boston.com/realestate/community/ for starters and then googling to see what I can find out beyond that.  Most of my friends are renters in Somerville and Malden, so I can't ask them for advice.

[Daddymem]

Here are a few places to help:
http://www.hometownlocator.com/City/Methuen-Massachusetts.cfm
http://www.dls.state.ma.us/CHERRY/

Check out FEMA for floodzones (there is a Firmette tutorial):
http://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/FemaWelcomeView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1

Use Oliver for GIS data viewing (aerial photos, USGS, Zone II, IWPA, Soils...some of the key ones):
http://maps.massgis.state.ma.us/massgis_viewer/index.htm

Local News for some Mass. towns:
http://www.townonline.com/

[Chuck_Surette]

Really quick:

Methuen - good
Haverhill - potentially bad (some nice areas)
Lowell - see above
NH - ok but getting more expensive (like everywhere)

North Reading is kind of a one horse town - but with a nice green/center.

Has Middleton gone off the charts?? easy back roads to N Reading.  But, I think it has become a McMansion breeding ground.  My sister bought there 10 yrs ago.  

Also - Wilmington is right near there. (sorry..... ne-yaaa the-yaa)

[Chuck_Surette]

Have you thought about modular?? - I guess it's kind of the middle ground between building yourself or purchasing an existing home.  Could be just the ticket - to get in something nice, under $300k.

These guys are out of CT http://helpubuild.com/costeffectivesolution.aspx

The home store - is located in Western MA, off Rte 91 - up by Yankee Candle.

http://www.the-homestore.com/testimonials/

http://www.the-homestore.com/about/whyvisit.html

[ailsaek]

Chuck:

Thanks muchly for the advice.  I'd heard of The Homestore, but not the other guys, and I've been spending a happy few minutes checking them out.

Middleton, so far as I recall, was too expensive, so I haven't currently got any home searches pointing to it.  We're currently enamoured of Methuen for various reasons, but other of the surrounding towns have their pluses.  I like the look of Pawtucketville in Lowell, but I'm not sure how much I trust my ability to pick out a good or bad neighborhood.  I did spend a couple of years in Somerville, though, as well as in Arlington, Belmont, and Brighton, so the "Which of my old neighborhoods does this place remind me of?" test might work.

We're probably going to look at a couple of places up in that neck of the woods next Friday on our way north to visit DH's family (waaaaaaay up northern Maine).

I ran across some sites on thermal mass and concrete and passive solar, so I've been talking to my husband about building our son an earth-bermed concrete block passive solar playhouse in the backyard of our new place, wherever it may be.  He's happy to let me mess about with that (although he says I'd be dangerous with a Kubota), but put his foot down at installing radiant heat in the floor.  

[Daddymem]

Keiser, out of Maine makes a very nice looking modular farmhouse.  We looked into that at one point.  If you find land and choose that route, I would suggest making the trek up to Oxford Maine....there are several manufacturers all in one small area.  Oxford homes were very nice too.  Here is Keiser, if you want I can scan the brochure pages of the farmhouse.  Two of the homes were built in my Town, here is a picture of it:

This house is 15' wide iirc, with a bump out on one side for a living room and a master bedroom in the back.  It is efficient use of space to fit on the trucks for deliver, I think it was two trucks total, one the main 1st floor, two the second floor and bump out.

Here is a gorgeous modular in Oxford:

[Ailsa C. Ek]

Keiser, out of Maine makes a very nice looking modular farmhouse.  We looked into that at one point.  If you find land and choose that route, I would suggest making the trek up to Oxford Maine....there are several manufacturers all in one small area.  Oxford homes were very nice too.  

(snip)

Here is a gorgeous modular in Oxford:

Oh my.    Houses built back home!  I grew up in West Minot and went to church in Norway/South Paris, and we drove by the modular home and mobile home sales area a zillion times.  Don't know why I never though of them.

I think my mom will definitely approve of us making a trek up to Oxford, and it's a lot more reachable than CT.  I see a new websearch coming on.  

DH, by the way, was quite insistant, back when we were looking at timber framers, that we only look at New England based ones, so modular homes from a company based effectively in my hometown ought to be an easier sell (although he'll probably still grumble about the lack of SIPs).

Oh, and that second one is indeed gorgeous.

[Daddymem]

Mommymem could provide you with the pictures we took while up there.  We were camping at Papoose pond for a week and made a day trip.  You have to watch for meeting Mass codes, a lot of them up there do not, and some won't deliver to Mass at all.  One thought we had at one point was to put in a small as possible modular to get onto the lot then add on stick built.  We looked at Epoch (NH) because they have a small "in-law" cape and I do mean small.  Kent has a very nice ranch that would have been a good starter too and I think it was around $60,000, I think Kent is out of PA but there was a dealer in Oxford.  That house with the wood trim was $110,000 I think.  It is possible get a good blend of DIY and Turn Key if you can get a contractor to agree to it.  Do the exterior trim, get the cheapest floors possible and plan on hardwood or tile in the future, get the cheapest trim and finish work and replace later, finish the upstairs on the cape yourself (they come unfinished from the factory).  You end up paying more than DIY, but less than Turn Key for the same level.

[dail melton(Guest)]

Ok, I guess really, I shouldn't say anything on this subject. Most of you are more knowlegable than I could ever hope to be but; when it comes to never having enough money and needing so much done and, having a creative "urg" to create somthing with my own two hands; well, that I do understand. I've spent most of, and looks like due to this recent mess and going to spend the remainder of, my life "building." But what the heck, I enjoy it anyway.
If you're in no particular hurry, then go volunteer time with Habitat of Humanity. Tell'em you want to work on the building committee. There you'll get some free guidence in the construction process. Also, go take a basic carpentry course at a local college. Then, spend time walking construction sites (with the supervisor's permission if necessary) and closely examine how things are done. (But becareful. Some builders don't know what they are doing either!)
There are several good books on the market with lots of illustrations on home building. Need advice on good ones, email me. Last, design your ideas, get a local college or HS teacher, to volunteer looking at them. Or, run'em by the guys here. Then build a model to familierize yourself with the actual project you're about to undertake. Hell, just building the model will have you so excited that it will drive you insane.
Yeah, building in the weather can be a pain. My wife and I worked in pouring rain in Geogia clay to move logs and setup a mobile home one time. And I know what its like to walk catwalks in cut offs wearing a tool belt in the blazing 90 degree sun to put on a gambrel roof. It was hot, dirty sweaty and tireing. And the dang cat sleeping on the catwalk while I moved shingle bundles didn't help. But you know what Ailsa?

I did it MYSELF, for alot LESS, and the PRIDE in accomplishment is ALL MINE! (and the wife's when she helped.) Thank you GOD for giving that to me. NO builder you hire, can give you all that! Later guys....dail

[Morgen(Guest)]

My suggestion really wasn't about building, but possibly a way to buy...I had a friend who bought acreage, moved the smallest and nicest modular she had onto it in a back corner and then lived in it during the trial and error of building the main home...that way she was onsite, not living in the construction or paying double rent and now that it is done she either rents it out or uses it as a guest cottage.

[Ailsa C. Ek]

Land & trailer might work.  It was an idea DH floated by me a way back.  Then I can just start stockpiling concrete blocks and see where it gets me.

Anybody know how you find out if various towns allow trailers?  Do you just call the town office or what?  I'm amazed at how much nicer mobile homes are than they used to be.

[Amanda_931]

(if you go looking for mobile homes--or travel trailers--they work too and are, ahem, supposed to give you inspiration for getting the house done quickly because they don't really work all that well--make sure that you are in the one you are thinking of buying for at least an hour, don't purchase if your eyes are watering or your nose running at the end of that time, it will be worse when you wake up every morning)

Some of us have been in the travel trailer for five years now.

[Daddymem]

Sooooo many towns in MA have their regs online.  Google Town of or City of.  In their zoning bylaws they may define a dwelling, Wareham for example:

DWELLING: A privately or publicly owned, permanently fixed structure containing a dwelling unit or
dwelling units. The terms "one-family", "two-family", or "multi-family" dwelling shall not include hotel, lodging house, hospital, membership club, trailer, mobile home or dormitory.

Then look for mobile or manufactured home, Wareham again:

Manufactured Home
A structure transportable in one or more sections built on a chassis and
containing complete electrical, plumbing and sanitary facilities, and designed to
be installed on a temporary or permanent foundation for permanent living
quarters. For floodplain management purposes, the term "manufactured home"
also includes park trailers, travel trailers, and other similar vehicles placed on a
site for greater than 180 consecutive days. (Amended 4/28/87)

Then look for use regulations based on what zoning area is in question(usually a series of tables), Wareham again:
PRINCIPAL USE       R130 R60 R43 R30 MR30 WV1 WV2 OV1 OV2 CS CG CN CNF MAR INS IND
Manufactured home Y       Y‡   Y‡   Y‡   Y‡     Y‡            Y‡    Y‡   Y‡             N    Y‡    Y‡   N

And then, if it looks like zoning allows it...ask, just because it is on the books doesn't mean it will happen easily.  Call your building inspector and flat out ask if mobile homes are allowed.  I usually try not to give away any information at all to the inspector, they do not have the right to know who you are or where you are asking about, if they do just sound like an engineer or land planner and say I am not at liberty to discuss my client's plans, that usually does the trick.  You will mostly find it isn't allowed in MA towns.  Mobile homes are typically in mobile home parks around here.  If your town isn't online, go to the clerk's office and they sometimes have a reference set to look at or at the least you can buy them.

[Daddymem]

In the case of methuen...

Trailers and/or <<mobile>> homes are allowed in the Town of Methuen with the following restrictions:

1. Trailers and/or <<mobile>> homes are not to be used for the purpose of dwellings, places of business or places of storage except as allowed below.
     
2. All legally existing trailers and/or <<mobile>> homes may be continued as a non-conforming use on the existing site.

3. Trailers and/or <<mobile>> homes used on construction projects as offices or places of storage, or when used as a temporary dwelling on the site of a single family residence which has been destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by fire or other catastrophe, must have a permit from the Building Inspector to be used as such and may be used only for the time limit stated on the permit. If the time expires, a new permit will be needed.

[Ailsa C. Ek]

Oh pooh.  So I guess cheap modular instead of mobile is the way to go - either that, or check the regs up in Salem and Pelham, NH.  (We have a couple of plots of land with no builder tie-ins that we're looking at there.

Bother bother bother.