Buildings and History - How and Why

[glenn kangiser]

So - there is another good thing about thread drift.  

[highlight]Note :  I ripped this thread off from PEG's Corbel thread as he made some interesting comments about old building quality and construction.  Possibly we can expand on old techniques, methods and things that have made them last over over the years as well as history associated with the buildings.  [/highlight]

Sleeping in -?  Moi :-?  Not too late today -- I worked the night shift here - till like 1:30 or so --- Don and I had to keep things going while you were getting your beauty sleep-- then today it was off to the gold rush.  I learned a lot.  How to differentiate between real gold and fools gold when panning.

Did I find any --- yup -- easily described  - 1 piece the size of a speck of pepper and a few about the size of a grain of flour.

Yesterday I cuddent even spill prospector -- now I are one.

From there I was still too excited so I went and found the site of the old Princeton mine - It would have been visible from my cabin.  Nothing there but brush and trees now - a hole in the ground and massive rock/unknown cement walls.  It is soft mortar like crushed slate in a giant formed rubble wall - 30 feet long and 20 feet high with misc. piers.



I hope to find enough gold to make a nice California Corbel.

[PEG688]

Yanno in that photo of the old mine theres some very impressive work /  building done there. 8-) 8-)

  Two , it looks to be , wooden water tanks and that main building look how straight the long roof pitch's are . Some multi level builds etc. The old times could get"er done fast and looking pretty fine as well.

And ALL MTL done with hand tools / at least pre elec. power tools I'd guess.  

 So you'll be out looking for that old site now ?? or do you know it's location all ready??

Edited to add::

 Note the water tanks are on a post and pier foundation , maybe John designed that siite  

Also edited to add:: Did you mean [highlight]WEB site[/highlight] , or the accual building site   :-/

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah - I was there - didn't see any signs so slipped around the end of the cable.  Maybe I'll go back and snap a few pics and post them.

I am trying to find the current owner and see if I can get permission to do some historical research on the site.

I always love the old mine buildings.

I assume that the tanks were cyanide leaching vats - needed to get all the gold out that they could and that was the most popular way for the final bit.

Here is a speech by George Radanovich -  http://www.house.gov/radanovich/press/2002/nov02/112002MariposaSpeechinLA.htm where I borrowed the photo from.  I know his cousin ?, Leroy and other relatives.  Interesting that Trabucco Warehouse was mentioned at the end of it.  Unfortunately I was the one who had to tear it down.  Another piece of history gone.  Greed, lawyers, insurance, liability and time are slowly (not slow enough) destroying much of our interesting past.

[glenn kangiser]

I walked on the building site with my grubbly little feet about 2 hours ago.  I was there -  found one interesting shaft although I think the main one may be filled in - at least part way.  From the photo, the one I found would have been off to the left or farther North I think.

[PEG688]

I assume that the tanks were cyanide leaching vats - needed to get all the gold out that they could and that was the most popular way for the final bit.

Well a tanks,  a tank . Not many barrel / wooden tank builders left. Very interesting trade barrel building that is. I've seen it done on TV New Yankee and some other show building wine barrels .

So you know the buildings and site ,  8-)

[glenn-k]

Housed in the above buildings was the steam engine - I saw the old boiler laying on the ground - not visible here -- I assume it powered this engine.

[glenn-k]

Interesting engine history I found from the name on the head of the engine.

http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6255981.html?industryid=23403

1871 - Simon Ingersoll received patent for steam-powered rock drill; Ingersoll Rock Drill Company formed; 1872 - first Rand air compressor introduced; Rand & Waring Drill & Compressor Company formed; 1879 - name changed to Rand Drill Company; 1888 - Ingersoll Rock Drill Company merged with Seargeant Drill Company, formed Ingersoll-Seargeant Drill Company; 1894 - W.R. Grace named President of Ingersoll-Seargeant; 1904 - Panama Canal begun using Ingersoll-Seargeant drills; 1905 - Ingersoll-Seargeant Drill Company merged with Rand Drill Company, formed Ingersoll-Rand Company.

http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6255981.html?industryid=23403

[glenn-k]

Note the board and batten walls inside the engine room.  In this area this would have likely been pine.  In the top picture see the cordwood stacked - likely for the steam engine.  In those days the hills around here were bare for miles around.

[fourx]

Board and Battern was a very common construction method during the goldrush period here, as well, and there are plenty of old homes with them still around in this area- in fact, those constructed pre-mid 19th century, when timber was very freely available use slab and battern, where  vertical slabs as thick as a railway sleeper formed the wall material with the gaps between covered by batterns.

[glenn-k]

Interesting Pete.  How extensive was your gold rush - time period - area - types - Placer? Hard rock?  Did you have any of the buildings similar to the above -- it used gravity as a help in the milling of the gold - starting at the top and working it's way down through the process.  I understand that corrugated iron was common down there.  Were there examples of its use in the mining industry?

[John_C]

That's a fair sized flywheel on what appears to be a modest sized engine.  It's let into the floor a bit so it might be close to 8' in diameter.

Image how well those building would have stood up if they had been properly designed, engineered, permitted and inspected.  

Not far from me is the town of Dahlonega, GA.  They claim to be the home of the first gold rush in the U.S.   Auraria about a mile down the road from Dahlonega makes the same claim.  They're so close it really doesn't matter.   Dahlonega was the home of the first U.S. mint.  That building is still standing and is now the administration building for the college,  North Georgia Military College.

[fourx]

Glenn, the goldrush period here was much the same as your own, with outlaws ( called ""bushrangers'') holding up stage coaches and robbing banks. Most of the gold mining was shallow, and there are extensive trenches and workings still visable. Corrugated iron was easily transportable and used in the construction of batteries and mill buildings. I'll see if I can hunt up some links.
Just another thing on traditional construction- a method of fixing bearers and joists and piers to flooring- even roof trusses called ""twitches"" was common, and involves the use of heavy fence wire, no 8 from memory, to bind the parts together, rather than bolts and or nails. I used it to fix my piers to the floor frame and the verandah roof the the poles which support it. Was that method used there?
Here's a link to some current info and history
http://users.tpg.com.au/dtdan//index.htm

[glenn-k]

Haven't heard of twitches.  The mine timbers used a method called square set timbers usually.

I saw some of the old joints when I tore down the warehouse and in the Old building I am working on.  They used a half lapped splice over a column and the warehouse had post tops as tenons to connect the beams together.  Wish I had been able to get better pics of the joinery.  I'll see what I can find.



Columns set under the above joint.



The wood columns set above the brick column.

[MountainDon]

I house I grew up in, and that my Mom kept until about 1995 or so was built in the late 1890's or thereabouts. No one was quite certain.

It was a one and a half story 20 foot or so wide stick built building. LR, DR, Kitchen, and 1 bedroom on the main floor. Upstairs the bathroom, and 2 bedrooms. Off the back was an unheated enclosed porch with an upper closed in balcony/porch. Originally I think it was open as the floor sloped like a shed roof. That was off my bedroom, so I had a summer room to sleep in. Cool place, all screened in originally... no windows.  

One of the things I could never understand about that house was there was no insulation anywhere, except for a 3 - 4 inch layer of wood shavings in the attic floor. This was in Winnipeg, Canada and those winters were always cold and long.    At some point before my parents bought it in 1948 it was stuccoed. That probably helped keep the drafts down. It has a real brick fireplace.

The house is still standing today; the neighborhood has changed some, but for the most part the houses are still kept up. No earthquakes or tornadoes, hurricanes there. Just damn cold and until a couple decades ago it was prone to flooding in a really bad spring run-off. We never had water around the house, but the sewers could give trouble in a bad year. I have pictures, have to find them.

[glenn-k]

That's a fair sized flywheel on what appears to be a modest sized engine.  It's let into the floor a bit so it might be close to 8' in diameter.

Image how well those building would have stood up if they had been properly designed, engineered, permitted and inspected.  

Not far from me is the town of Dahlonega, GA.  They claim to be the home of the first gold rush in the U.S.   Auraria about a mile down the road from Dahlonega makes the same claim.  They're so close it really doesn't matter.   Dahlonega was the home of the first U.S. mint.  That building is still standing and is now the administration building for the college,  North Georgia Military College.

I was not aware of the Eastern US gold rush.  Learn something new every day.  I found references to it now that you mentioned it, John C.

I would guess that that engine was 12 or more feet long.  

Here is another one about 20 miles away that is at least that long.  

[fourx]

The dificulty in moving something as massive as that in the days of horse and cart would be incredible.
http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/ReadingRoom/3.1/Craik1.html This shows the use of corrugated iron and a stump and batten high-set construction method used in tropical and sub-tropical areas. Many homes are still built to this design. My own home is on stumps, elevated to catch every breeze during the hot steamy summer.

[jraabe]

I'm learning a lot from this interesting thread.  

There wasn't much gold mining up in my neck of the woods, but during the same historical period, loggers of the Pacific NW were building bridges using a brute force design involving old growth timber (which was cheap and available).

[peg_688]

John is that photo out of the Saganaw loggers book / site ?? Do they have a site??

My neighbor to the west of me was part of the Saganaw loggers back in 1930's , he's gone now but his wife still lives next door , they have a book "The Saganaw loggers " Bob's photo is in it , interesting photos , they'd burn 7 cords of wood a day , or cut 7 for the steam donkey's that dragged logs , and what ever else they needed to move . I check on line to see if thats where you snagged that photo.

They used a lot of good timber back then for just about everything , carbon foot print was a tad LARGE  ;DMaybe exexex large  

[glenn-k]

The dificulty in moving something as massive as that in the days of horse and cart would be incredible.

Fairbanks Morse made a model similar to this that could be disassembled and hauled into the mines in smaller chunks.  I have several of the old one lungers at my other place.  This one is a hoisting engine where the mine hoist is built right onto the engine, but not the real portable model.




http://gasenginerow.com/index.html  I have some model Z FBM engines.

It and others like it are preserved and running at Vista, CA.  As I recall, they also have some nice steam engines - the above are gas or kerosene around the year 1900.

http://www.agsem.com/

[glenn-k]

Great looking bridge, John.  I'm lusting after the logs.

My granddad, dad and uncles had or ran sawmills or worked in logging in the PNW.  I think my uncle was using an aluminum walker when he finally quit falling.  Not sure about that but I think he probably still has a chainsaw at near 90.  How's he keep going you ask :-?--- Preservative, I think -- he drinks lots of preservative.

[John_C]

I was not aware of the Eastern US gold rush.

You had one too?  

I have friends who used to live in Truckee, CA.  Right on Donner Mtn.   When I mention the Donner Party,  Sierra Nevada Mtns. and the snow they get there a lot of people here think I'm making the whole thing up.

[glenn-k]

The Donner Party started the original potluck.  Bring your own dish.  Unfortunately people had not yet caught on to the idea yet so pickens were slim.  They are just a few hours up the road from me.

I really love the old gold towns and the buildings in them are great.  This year we will be making more field trips so I hope to help  keep this thread interesting for a while.  Many of them are small houses like John designs and most of them are still inhabited.

[MountainDon]

Some nice engines there Glenn. Loved the triple diesel 15,701 cubic inches!!

You gave me another reason to visit some places in CA.

[Leo]

I have spent the last five years in a 1886 mansion,fortunately that will end soon,paying $650 to freeze all winter has made Me appreciate a wood stove and Small houses while beautiful it is a Energy disaster.  Originally built by a by a judge law office one side home on other so total heat 1100+$.but the wood work is out of this world how can carvings  in Oak and maple 3/8 by 5/8 not crack in all that time?grain at 90 degrees ?  <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="https://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w113/addison51/022407_1524b.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[Leo]

It was winters here I came to realize i didnt spend 65$ for my car But 650 to freeze,the time Ive spent repairing houses some very old pre 1760 cape in Maine..How do you tell the herd there biggest investment is obsolete? i should Be able to heat a16x32 well insulated with My old pal wood stove without felling any trees.for chainsaw change..then Ill get as warm as I want.