I found this walking my land..is it an old well?

[Don_P]

You're the doc so take this for what it's worth. I don't believe bacteria is limited to animal origin. I know that "wind shake" in trees is actually caused by a soil borne bacteria... from who or where it originates is beyond me. This was why I mentioned that a spring rarely passes, it almost always has bacteria. If they can identify and give you a count it would be more useful. Although until you get it cleaned out and confirm that it runs that doesn't matter a whole lot. It doesn't sound bad yet. We evolved alongside a lot of the stuff we get concerned with and seem to be no worse for the wear.

[glenn kangiser]

You can buy expensive stuff but when well drilling a gallon of Chlorox in a small well for 24 hours then pump until no more smell did it.  Wide open like that, I would expect a positive test... even birds do it.....

[AdironDoc]

True enough. Myriad bacteria everywhere. The packaging of the water test noted that the testing, albeit nonspecific, "in all likelihood, indicates the presence of pathogenic bacteria that will be hazardous if ingested". My impression: the test is geared for coliform, and other enteric nasties. I will go the clorox route after enclosing the spring, then send the water to a lab so that if positive, the pathogen can be identified.

[glenn kangiser]

Likely - the coliform is not necessarily a baddie but can indicate that the baddies could be there if it is there is my understanding.

[speedfunk]

Doc...we have something that looks exactly the same on our property.  I believe in our case it was a distribution box.  The springs that we are using for our water have pipes that were in them but they were rusted out etc.  The box very similar to yours had an incoming line and then a few outgoing lines to the residences that are below us.  They have municipal water now so its un-used.  I dont think it was a spring also but its tough to say..maybe I go look again for fun.

We also had a bacteria fail on our water.  Thanks everyone for sharing their knowledge about such stuff b/c I did not get the details just that the water had bacteria.  I have been drinking it ...it tastes good.  I started off just sipping it now I drink it whenever i am on land so I thinks its ok. I am not sick b/c of it so I am not that concerned.

[Squirl]

Sorry for the thread drift, but I am building in the same state as Adirondoc and Speedfunk.  My building permit regulations state that you need a "passing bacterial water test from a certified testing laboratory" for them to issue a certificate of occupancy, but it gives no other guidance on whether it can be a from spring box, home dug well, shallow well, rainwater catchment, trucked in, or anything else.

Has either of you (or anyone else in NY) received any clarification on this?  Speedfunk, have you researched other options.  I have a few, but I don't know legality for passing code.  I would just like to price and weigh other options than paying someone to dig a well.

[ben2go]

Sorry for the thread drift, but I am building in the same state as Adirondoc and Speedfunk.  My building permit regulations state that you need a "passing bacterial water test from a certified testing laboratory" for them to issue a certificate of occupancy, but it gives no other guidance on whether it can be a from spring box, home dug well, shallow well, rainwater catchment, trucked in, or anything else.

Have a read through this.DIY well and you can have the water checked out for occupancy issue.

Has either of you (or anyone else in NY) received any clarification on this?  Speedfunk, have you researched other options.  I have a few, but I don't know legality for passing code.  I would just like to price and weigh other options than paying someone to dig a well.

[AdironDoc]

Sorry guys, been out of town a few days. Come spring, I'll dump some chlorine (chlorox or pool powder) into the springbox just after I remove all the debris and cover it. A month later, I'll test again. I doubt this will ever be my primary source of water since it's around 700ft from the cabin. I also don't have any idea of the refill rate yet. A smaller guest cottage I'll build on this side of the camp could make use of it in the future.

Don't people with shallow wells usually run their water through a filtering system of some sort? I remember my dad's place up in the northern forests of Saskatchewan. He had a shallow well that seemed crystal clear but still conditioned the water.

I've not crossed the certificate of occupancy bridge yet, so I don't have any specifics on requirements on potable water sources. Being in health care it's not hard to imagine the Dept. of Health requires an ID of what bacteria and other nasties come up and the Building Dept will adhere to their recommendations. Common pathogens or harmless flora. I suspect they're looking for coliform mostly but will ask the inspector when I meet him for specifics and counts.

[Pox Eclipse]

Count the bounces until they start to taper off and that should be the depth of the water in feet.

Do European dowsing rods measure water depth in meters?

[HoustonDave]

Do European dowsing rods measure water depth in meters?

[AdironDoc]

Count the bounces until they start to taper off and that should be the depth of the water in feet.

Do European dowsing rods measure water depth in meters?

hahaha! yes, and I suspect that if two dowsers crossed paths somewhere deep in the woods, they would pass to the left of each other as well..

Cheerios mate..

[frazoo]

Don't people with shallow wells usually run their water through a filtering system of some sort? I remember my dad's place up in the northern forests of Saskatchewan. He had a shallow well that seemed crystal clear but still conditioned the water.

I'd rather err on the side of safety when it comes to drinking water.  A two to five micron filter coupled with a UV disinfecting light will more than do the job and there are no chemicals added to the water.  Filter placed before the light to lower the turbidity and leave less places for the nasties to hide behind when it goes through the light tube.  Clorox works well for wells, because typically there are no surface contaminants in a well once all drilling equipment is removed and you have disinfected the well with the chlorine.  At this point in time, you don't know if you have ground water or if it is being influenced by surface water (which is where most nasties live). If your source has been influenced by surface conditions, it could be influenced again in the future after your initial disinfection process.  The filter and UV light cost less than $200.00, replace the light once a year @ $39.00/replacement.  Still less than the cost of one case of the nasties.

frazoo

[AdironDoc]

Point "well" taken! 

[speedfunk]

squirl:

You are correct in your description of NYS Cert of water.  I am not sure what I am going to do really.  The test failed the first time I did it, it however had leaves in the spring box and was open ( I sent the firstday at the same time so figured why not try the new land).  The guy I know locally died recently (schenevus) so if you know of anyone else let me know.  So I have been drinking the water and it tastes good and has not effected me in anyway.  well i do have this muscle glitch sometimes ..hm...

I will have to wait till the results come back when I finish the spring box and get it cleaned out.  However depending on how it fails I will do my own research.  Not all bacteria are bad so from my limited understanding is it could fail and still be fine?  I am not drilling a well period and will find a work around if it fails.  GL i hope yours is perfect. 

[glenn kangiser]

The e-coli are just an indicator that pathogens could be in the water and not a guarantee that they are.  Some e-coli are bad and some are not.  They are just easy to find.

Some places locals will build a tolerance to bugs that would make others sick.

[Squirl]

Thanks for the response speedfunk.  I have read the NSF guide to rain water catchment for potable water.  Similar ones are published by various state governments.  Two of the ones I have read are from Texas and Ohio.  The Ohio one is actually part of their building code.  The reality of it is that birds poop on roofs.  Some type of bacteria will get into the water supply even with a first flush diverter.  A sand, .1 micron, and UV filter are considered to code for these water supplies.  I can't see why the same technology applied to shallow wells would not pass requirements for eliminating bacteria and passing the tests.  I'm sure there could be other factors, such as if your shallow well is too close to a fertilized field.  There are many chemicals and mineral issues that might have to be dealt with, but, theoretically, the bacteria issues should be easier to overcome.

[Squirl]

BTW speedfunk, I didn't know that it was done by private contractors.  I thought it was done through Otsego soil and water conservation, just like the perc test.  I did find a list of Laboratories on their website.  I assume you were referring to Tom Whibeck's Water Lab.  He is still listed.  I guess it is not the most up to date list.  I am going to set up a small rainwater catchment system before the larger one as soon as the ground thaws.  I would appreciate if you could keep me updated which one you use or have heard of.  I will post how it goes when I get it done.  Did you take the water over, or did they send someone out?

[speedfunk]

Squirl:  I am sure your right that the same techniques could be applied to a shallow well/spring.  Yeah private guys do it also.  If you also find one let me know.  We are not there yet but sometime lol.  Until then I will appreciate the lower taxes (with out cert of occupancy) 

The land that is above def plays a big part.  If I was in a low lying elevation and had farms around me I would not be so confident.  However, I am on a big hill , there is a house above me but I get the feeling that my spring comes from a pretty deep vain and that any contaminates from ground would be filtered pretty good by the time they got to the spring head.  In all cases it seems a good bit of common sense goes a long way.

Thanks glenn, that kind of what I remember as well , that not all ecoli is bad etc, it also makes sense if you grew up drinking it that your body is very familiar with what is in the water and if of average health could separate the good from the bad.

[glenn kangiser]

As I recall some bugs that would not bother the locals would give new visitors the Hershey's squirts. 

[ben2go]

As I recall some bugs that would not bother the locals would give new visitors the Hershey's squirts. 

We call it the green apple $h!t$ here.

[AdironDoc]

Thought I'd throw a follow-up question on here as I'm headed up to the camp this weekend. We'll break ground soon on the cabin. Anyway, as you recall, I had found an uncovered springbox with a bunch of debris in it. It tested fine for all but trace bacteria, which with the home test, are not specified. Some of you mentioned putting some chlorine in and retesting a month later. I wondered on any suggested specifics. I have bromine shock for my spa. I have a jug of chlorox by my wash. I could get a box of pool chlorine. Any thoughts on how best to do this? How much? How long to let it sit before testing again? I'd estimate there's around 40-60 gallons of water in the box but depends on how deep it ends up being. After cleaning it out and shocking the water, I'll be covering the box with a small plastic shed from HomeDepot.

Doc

[archimedes]

I've been doing research for the same reason and found this:
http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/better-than-bleach-use-calcium-hypochlorite-to-disinfect-water/


Mixed in quantities described here'
http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthfiles/hfile49b.stm

Also, I found a good site selling disinfecting products if you want to clean the water further.
http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/chlorinator.html

[UK4X4]

http://www.overlandjournal.com/media/news_and_press/overland_journal_completes_water_filter_and_purifier_test/

I read the artical and it covers a lot of the off the shelf purifiers, the larger system would be fine for a cabin,
They actually tested the gear with real nasties and the results were surprising.

I think the value award went to the typical standard household carbon and mesh system,but not sure.
, with a Doulton carbon filter

Basicly if you have a water source its not that dificult to purify it

here's a site with just filters and gear

http://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/DWUV.htm

[MountainDon]

If you use any filter media like the Doulton, Berkey and others one thing to remember is that when you close up the place for winter those type of media may be damaged by freezing water that is retained in the filtering media