3-way switch

Redoverfarm · March 10, 2008, 04:19:58 PM

Willy if you are on the forrum can you walk me through this. I had done 3-ways a couple of times but don't recall the exact diagram. I am planning on making the junction between the switches at the light (ceiling). I thought before I used 12/3 and tagged the white on one side for the traveler. Am I out in left field?

Willy · March 10, 2008, 04:45:55 PM

Quote from: Redoverfarm on March 10, 2008, 04:19:58 PM
Willy if you are on the forrum can you walk me through this. I had done 3-ways a couple of times but don't recall the exact diagram. I am planning on making the junction between the switches at the light (ceiling). I thought before I used 12/3 and tagged the white on one side for the traveler. Am I out in left field?

You can use 12/3 but 12/2 will also work. If using 12/3 run power to one box and go to the light from the same box. Then run the 12/3 between the 2 switch boxes. Take the white from the power run and hook it to the white going to the light fixture. Take the black from the power run and use it for the common on the switch in that box. Take the red from the 12/3 and hook it to the black going to the light. Then use the white and black from the 12/3 to work for the travelers on the switch. In the other box hook the black and white to the travers on the switch and the red to the common. That is one way to wire it. Now there are other ways to do it also. Another way is to run power to one box and take the light run out of the other box. Then you run 12/3 between the boxes. In the box with the power hook the white from the power run to the white on the 12/3 and the black from the power run to the common on the switch. Take the red and black and hook them to the travelers on that switch. In the other box hook the white from the 12/3 to the white wire going to the light, take the black from the light and hook it to the common on the switch. Take the red and black from the 12/3 and hook them to the travelers. Does not matter what screw you use on the travelers they do the same thing. If you want to use 12/2 all you do is replace the 12/3 with 2 runs of 12/2 and cut one of the wires off the one run and use it for the third wire. What I do is angle cut the romex at both ends so I know what romex it is. Then when I strip it out I cut off the white and use the black in place of the red wire and wire it the same as above. This allows you to save a few bucks on a long run between switches as 12/3 costs more than 2- 12/2 runs. If you want to feed the light box with the power it is wired different let me know if you need to do it this way but 99% of the time this is not done due to wasting more wire in the 3/way system. If you want to add a 4 way switch into the wiring you just split the travelers and put the 4/way in the middle of them and hook the commons together. You only use 2- 3/ways and the rest are 4/ways to make as many switches to opperate a light as you want to. Mark

March 10, 2008, 06:55:30 PM

I hijacked PEG's pictures from this thread

Or This way :

Willy · March 10, 2008, 08:46:59 PM

I like to use the black and white for travelers in 3-ways because if you use 12/2 or 14/2 (with ground) it only has black and white wires. When using the 12/3 or 14/3 (with ground) and the red wire is included in the romex I use it for the common because it is so different and easy to spot. It realy does not matter if you use either color just remember which one you use. The pictures makes it easy to follow. Normaly 100% of the time the brass screws are travelers and the black screw is the common on the switch. When it is time for make up and your not putting the switch in right away this is how I do it. I twist the travelers together in as pair and haft/hitch the common around them. This keeps them idenified even if there pushed back in the box or a switch is replaced later. Mark

MountainDon · March 10, 2008, 08:59:18 PM

Hey Mark, John is having DSL trouble today/tonight. He's emailed me and mentioned

"I was wanting to separate the fan and the light on two seperate switches but the problem is that my power feed is on the opposite wall/other 3-way. The 3-way would just operate the light and a convientional for the fan. I was wondering if the traveler would do this independent of going through the switch to work anytime. "

If you read this and have any advice for him email me and I'll give you his email address.

March 10, 2008, 09:03:56 PM

Quote from: MountainDon on March 10, 2008, 08:59:18 PM
Hey Mark, John is having DSL trouble today/tonight. He's emailed me and mentioned

"I was wanting to separate the fan and the light on two seperate switches but the problem is that my power feed is on the opposite wall/other 3-way. The 3-way would just operate the light and a convientional for the fan. I was wondering if the traveler would do this independent of going through the switch to work anytime. "

If you read this and have any advice for him email me and I'll give you his email address.

Have him email me. There is a way to do this. Even a easier way if you can still run new wires. My email is on my personal information section I think at least I see it if I click on my name. My daughter is taking the computer line from me but I will answer it as soon as I get it back! Mark

MountainDon · March 10, 2008, 09:42:02 PM

Mark, you are hidden to the rest of the world, except for John Raabe and Glenn. You will see your own email because you are you... makes sense?? But everyone else sees hidden

....okay I just looked and John's email (redoverfarm) is visible under his profile..

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2097

Hope you can work this out for him.... then to help the rest tell us all about it here.

Willy · March 10, 2008, 11:06:02 PM

Quote from: MountainDon on March 10, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Mark, you are hidden to the rest of the world, except for John Raabe and Glenn. You will see your own email because you are you... makes sense?? But everyone else sees hidden

....okay I just looked and John's email (redoverfarm) is visible under his profile..

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2097

Hope you can work this out for him.... then to help the rest tell us all about it here.

I just sent him a email to see how I could help with his wiring problem. Mark

MountainDon · March 10, 2008, 11:10:52 PM

OK... here's what he's sent me

1.
well I made it to the board but couldn't do anything other than view. Went to Willy's profile and his E-mail is still listed as Hidden. I have spent the last 30-40 only being able to view 6 E-mails. I am ahead of your time so it's close to bedtime. If Mark get's back on this is basicly what I need to do. I have limited space(log chink corner joint). I have 3 switches on a non feeding wall now(3-way for light, convientional for fan. convientional for cateye spots. The 3 way will be 12/3 to light and then to other 3-way on opposite wall(power feed side). The other two convientional switches are 14/2. Is there anyway to get a hot leg (non-interupted by switch) from the 3-way common lug to use for the feed of the two convientional switches. I do not have enough room to go switch to switch and then to light along with the other wires. This will be on a seperate circuit so load should not be a problem.

I will try to check in the morning and hopefully they will have this thing worked out by then and maybe not. I will just work on somehing else tomarrow as I still have plenty to keep me busy.

Thanks for you help

2.
Don you might mention to Mark that I can run a neutral(white) in 12/2 from the feed side of the room to the ceiling light, then to the other lights/fan that are on that circuit without any problem. Just can't take them over to the opposite wall and work them to the switches. Also there is no codes here to worry about.

March 10, 2008, 11:13:39 PM

BTW, if anyone has a need to change their profile.... things like whether or nor your email shows, that can be changed under your profile... account related settings

Willy · March 10, 2008, 11:58:25 PM

Quote from: MountainDon on March 10, 2008, 11:13:39 PM
BTW, if anyone has a need to change their profile.... things like whether or nor your email shows, that can be changed under your profile... account related settings

I am waiting for a return on what I told him. I tried to make my email show but did not see anything on how to do it? I got Johns with no problem. I think I may have answerd his question on the fan motor but need to make sure first when he gets back to me. Mark

glenn kangiser · March 11, 2008, 12:05:22 AM

It's under Profile/Account related settings / un-check hide email from public to show it.

Willy · March 11, 2008, 12:07:26 AM

Quote from: glenn kangiser on March 11, 2008, 12:05:22 AM
It's under Profile/Account related settings / un-check hide email from public to show it.

Just found it and I think it shows now to the public. Mark

MountainDon · March 11, 2008, 12:12:02 AM

You did it mark!

March 11, 2008, 12:15:03 AM

Quote from: MountainDon on March 11, 2008, 12:12:02 AM
You did it mark!

I aqm suprised cause I know so little about forum sites. I only realy have 2 I vist and this one is great it fills a void not working on construction sites anymore. I can keep up with the rest of the building world on a small scale. Mark

wingam00 · March 11, 2008, 12:30:18 PM

From what I have found out the hard way, this option is the one to use if you have more that one light on the line for the switches to turn on or off.

QuoteNow there are other ways to do it also. Another way is to run power to one box and take the light run out of the other box.....

If you use the first method with more than one light, the lights are dimmer than normal. Not sure why but had it happen. But heck I am not sure how 3 or 4 ways switches work but I can wire them and make them work.

Very good instructions and picture Mark and MountainDon.

Mark

Willy · March 11, 2008, 02:11:29 PM

Quote from: wingam00 on March 11, 2008, 12:30:18 PM
From what I have found out the hard way, this option is the one to use if you have more that one light on the line for the switches to turn on or off.

QuoteNow there are other ways to do it also. Another way is to run power to one box and take the light run out of the other box.....

If you use the first method with more than one light, the lights are dimmer than normal. Not sure why but had it happen. But heck I am not sure how 3 or 4 ways switches work but I can wire them and make them work.

Very good instructions and picture Mark and MountainDon.

Mark

You may have hooked up the light fixtures wrong after wiring the switches correctly. If you did not hook all the whites to white and all blacks to blacks in the light fixture boxes you could have put the bulbs is series instead or paralell. To test this unscrew one bulb and see if the other one goes out also. Mark

Redoverfarm · March 11, 2008, 09:26:48 PM

Willy I sent you an E-mail and photo's explaining my problem. Let me know if you received them.

Willy · March 11, 2008, 10:46:45 PM

Quote from: Redoverfarm on March 11, 2008, 09:26:48 PM
Willy I sent you an E-mail and photo's explaining my problem. Let me know if you received them.

I Emailed you a answer and it is probley easier to solve this by email. I think I have it answered and I may lose the computer for a while. Took a long time to type what I think I was saying in a way I think you are understanding what I mean and I understood what you said! Realy it will be easy if you follow the email closly and I broke it up some to understand it better. My mind works better in sentences with spaces and long paragrafs loose me sometimes cause I need to picture what is going on at the same time I am reading. Mark

gandalfthegrey · March 12, 2008, 10:59:13 AM

Mark,

Do you mind if I state what you said in my signature? It explains my dexlexia to my wife perfectly.

My mind works better in sentences with spaces and long paragraphs loose me sometimes cause I need to picture what is going on at the same time I am reading.

March 12, 2008, 12:54:00 PM

Quote from: gandalfthegrey on March 12, 2008, 10:59:13 AM
Mark,

Do you mind if I state what you said in my signature? It explains my dexlexia to my wife perfectly.

My mind works better in sentences with spaces and long paragraphs loose me sometimes cause I need to picture what is going on at the same time I am reading.

Go for it, why not it tells me I am not the only one. Mark

Redoverfarm · March 12, 2008, 03:08:25 PM

Willy I think I am straight now for the meantime. I have to chink before I put the switches in. Like trying to drywall with them in place. It usually creates a mess on the switches and wires. I will let you know how it works (or doesn't)later. Thanks for all your help. Sorry to be a PIA but it was just bad timing with the DSL and the like. What did you think of the corner wiring? Don't laugh. You have probably had some in your career that you would have just liked to walk away from too.

Willy · March 12, 2008, 03:39:41 PM

Quote from: Redoverfarm on March 12, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
Willy I think I am straight now for the meantime. I have to chink before I put the switches in. Like trying to drywall with them in place. It usually creates a mess on the switches and wires. I will let you know how it works (or doesn't)later. Thanks for all your help. Sorry to be a PIA but it was just bad timing with the DSL and the like. What did you think of the corner wiring? Don't laugh. You have probably had some in your career that you would have just liked to walk away from too.

Well I think I would have tried to cut out a little knotch to straiten the run out some but once there in the chinking it won't matter. I have a right angle drill motor and short auger bits that can drill thru the logs. Problem is it is better to not weaken the logs just to hide a wire. I have had to do a few things I don't like over the years because there was no other way to get it done. When I wire homes I put in a couple extra circuits in the attic and craw area out of the panel. I also have put a empty 3/4" conduit both directions out of the panel and boxes on the ends just in case they may be needed later. Glad I was of some help. Mark