Barn with LQ please help

saltwater redneck · February 10, 2013, 10:29:22 AM

I know it is almost impossible to get a complete cost from a basic idea but I am kinda in a pickle. I am looking at some land for our dream house with our horses. My plan was to to buy the land and for now build a barn with a 16 x 60 upstairs apartment. We could live there till we sell our current house, then we could build the dream house and watch it being built.

My plan is to only do what is nesessary on the barn to get the apartment done, I will finish the actual barn part later. This is what it would like when we move in,

The apartment is to be very simple, sheetrock, laminate floors, budget cabinets and fixtures. I would say I can do at least 50% of the total labor. The land is easy to work with, NC sandy soil, no rock or stone.

So here is my pickle, a local contractor told me it would take 65k to move in. That is with me doing a bunch of the work. I have been thinking all along that I could do it under 50k.
My cost will be 5000 for septic and 2500 for the well
Please give me some honest feedback from your experience.
Thanks in advance, I know it may just be a best guess scenario

Redoverfarm · February 10, 2013, 11:24:37 AM

The only realistic way to get an estimate is to price out the materials, and get estimates on the portion that you cannot complete on your own. A lot depends on your skill level and availability of equipment needed. Do you have a set of plans? This type of build is not one of those that you can get a cost per Sq Ft as there is much that would not be finished or built in the conventional way. The major expense will be the loft rooms because of the finished factor.

February 10, 2013, 11:52:53 AM

I do not have a set of plans, for now I am hoping to get some ballpark figures before I get any plans drawn. I know the figure of 100 per sq ft gets used alot for building houses but do you think you can finish the interior "excluding appliances" of a 16x60 box to live in for 20k? That would be elec, plumbing, flooring , sheetrock, cabinets, bath

I have done some figuring and I think I can build the shell and for under 25k. Does that figure look right? There will be 2900 sq ft of roofing to be done. Plus the columns, framing, joists, etc..
I am handy and I feel I could do almost all the work if time allowed. I have learned in the past that some things are better to hire out like sheetrock, roofing etc. If the money is that tight I can take on some of those jobs as well.
Lee

Don_P · February 11, 2013, 08:16:56 AM

That looks very much like a barn that used to be up the road before it blew over. Way underbraced for the sail and load above. My 30+ year old copy of the NC code does have bracing requirements for coastal structures of this type, they were requiring much more bolted full length bracing than you are showing. Having built there several times since the newer I codes have been adopted an engineer is probably going to be required. I suspect this will alter that plan significantly enough that a price guess now wouldn't mean a whole lot.

Redoverfarm · February 11, 2013, 08:20:03 AM

Don we had 3 barns collaspe during the wind storm in June last year. They probably were 50-70 years old.

February 11, 2013, 10:53:17 AM

Yeah, there will be a good bit of cross bracing. That was the only picture that I could find that was close to my idea. Then once I finish the lower it will be really strong.

I worked up a materials list for the shell, apartment framing and roofing done. I used today prices from Lowes. The largest chunk was the roof, rafters, sheathing, and shingles. The total came in around 10k.
The columns were a guess so I allowed 100 bucks per to cover the post and concrete.

My total dried in figures were below 20k, does that sound right to you?

rick91351 · February 11, 2013, 11:42:59 AM

If you don't have a plan drawn it is pretty hard to figure what you are going to need for materials. That photo is a real problem child just waiting for age and opportunity.

We intended to do something over a garage while we built a house. We decided - why do such? We found we were wasting time and materials that could and would go into the house. We could live in a fifthwheel camp trailer or a park model trailer tied into the septic and electrical and save a whole bunch of $$$.

saltwater redneck · February 11, 2013, 01:10:07 PM

Since I do not have a blueprint I allowed for the largest lumber I feel it may need. I wish I could do the RV/Camper thing but it is not allowed in the area the property is located. I have seen many homes here with the cross bracing I am allowing for so I think it will not be a problem. I do agree the that the pic of the apartment I used is just a disaster waiting to happen.

I have been punching numbers all morning and I have a total materials cost of 36k. I included everything I could think of and priced mid to lower priced componets. It includes appliances, ac/heat,flooring, sheetrock, cabinets,bath, etc etc. The only things I do not have a estimate for is plumbing and electrical.

It seems like my 50k or under idea is plausible.

Any feedback would be welcome.
Thanks
Lee

Alan Gage · February 11, 2013, 02:38:02 PM

I figured I could build my house for $40k (1000 sq. ft. single story on a slab). Secretly I thought I could do it for considerably less than that. I hired someone to install the septic ($4500) dig the footings ($500) lay a couple courses of block and do the concrete pour (I formed everything up ($3000)), and trench in 200 amp service from the pole ($1200). I did everything else myself including prepping and grading the pad, plumbing, framing, electrical, siding, insulation, roofing, etc... My main heat source is a wood stove and I have a used window AC unit to knock down the humidity in the middle of summer. I spent about $250 for electric baseboard as backup heat. I also built my own cabinets.

I ended up spending close to $70k, way more than I could have imagined. If you've never done this before there are tons of little hidden costs that you're not aware of. The easiest thing for the beginner to estimate is the framing materials because it's the easiest thing to wrap your brain around. I also found out that the framing material is the cheapest part of the build, 2x4s and plywood are cheap. Metal roof sounds cheap when you price out the steel, then you find there's another $1k in trim and fasteners. Who would have though regular aluminum vented soffit would cost over $1k? Fasteners really add up too. Lots of stuff like that.

I did get a little more extravagant than I'd originally planned but this is my full time residence and when you're in the middle of the build an extra $500 or $1000 sounds better than getting all done and kicking yourself for the next 20 years wishing you'd done something different. There were places I could have cut costs but it still would have been a lot more than I'd anticipated.

Alan

February 11, 2013, 02:42:32 PM

Quote from: saltwater redneck on February 11, 2013, 01:10:07 PM
I have been punching numbers all morning and I have a total materials cost of 36k. I included everything I could think of and priced mid to lower priced componets. It includes appliances, ac/heat,flooring, sheetrock, cabinets,bath, etc etc. The only things I do not have a estimate for is plumbing and electrical.

If you're at a rough $36k estimate for materials and you haven't figured in electrical or plumbing yet I don't see how you're going to come in under $50k since you said you thought you'd be hiring out some labor.

Alan

rick91351 · February 11, 2013, 02:48:29 PM

AG is very close to the truth. Unless you are a real good with a pencil and know all the ins and outs. Take what you sort of think and double it, then you will be close the final product cost. If it makes you feel good I will add you might have a little left over.

Rick

Bob S. · February 11, 2013, 04:04:27 PM

We have a member on the forum that is building a barn like this.
Have you checked out (48x48 barn and writers retreat loft in Iowa)?
I am sure that he would be abel to give you lots of insight.

good luck with your project, Bob

saltwater redneck · February 11, 2013, 05:51:00 PM

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback. I am planning on allowing 60k for the first part of the project. If it goes over I will just have to do the rest little by little.
Lee

saltwater redneck · February 11, 2013, 05:55:23 PM

I found the 48x48 barn topic but he has not posted since 2011.

I sent him a message with no replies.

February 11, 2013, 07:10:57 PM

Alan,

You couldn't have said it better. It is the little crap that eats you out of house and home. I decided to put in vented soffit, and it did darn near cost what the metal roof did. But, it is done, and the money is spent and I'm glad I did it, but the trim and fasteners are crazy. It's not hard to run 50% to 100% cost overrun. Not hard at all. As amateurs, we always under-estimate.

Don_P · February 11, 2013, 10:57:04 PM

LOL, don't feel special.

I think the pro's bid was 65K, we're up to 60? He's fixing the cost and providing most of the labor for 5K?

Take them pizza on Fridays

!

saltwater redneck · February 12, 2013, 07:21:45 AM

I can see where you guys are coming from. There are many places in the constuction that can go as planned or for some reason be double what you planned. I have a limited budget so I am going to do my best at keeping the cost down. I dont need to splurge on extras since we will only live there a couple years but I do want it to last. If the area allowed it, I would seriously think about going with the RV idea till we build the "dream house". Since we need a barn anyway, I am thinking we will get our money worth out of the barn/apartment idea. It will also be alot more comfy to live in. Years later it will be great for a hangout area, guest quarters or office.

I thank you for a reality check,

I wil be sure to post my project here if all goes well.
Lee

Don_P · February 12, 2013, 09:32:51 AM

Try running the basic idea past a post frame company... Morton buildings or whoever is in your area. Sit back and listen to their suggestions and see how they come out. They do the engineering and are as cost competitive as it gets.

Alan Gage · February 12, 2013, 11:00:25 AM

Quote from: Don_P on February 12, 2013, 09:32:51 AM
Try running the basic idea past a post frame company... Morton buildings or whoever is in your area. Sit back and listen to their suggestions and see how they come out. They do the engineering and are as cost competitive as it gets.

Not a bad idea. I recently priced out a 35x45 with 12' sidewalls and, if I remember correctly, (estimate isn't in front of me) was quoted around $40k. That was for everything except the slab and electrical in my case and included two large overhead doors with electric openers. No living quarters or partitioned walls inside and you'd need to add plumbing as well. Best part is it would be up in a hurry if that matters to you.

Instead of having a temporary living quarters on top of the barn could you just live on the main level in a partitioned off area? It would make construction, plumbing, and electrical simpler and cheaper. When you've got your dream house built tear down the partition walls and you've got your full size barn back.

Alan

river place · February 15, 2013, 09:17:36 PM

On my place in AR I had National Barn build me a 30 x 40 pole barn with 12ft walls and an insulated roof to eliminate condensation inside. First thing was gravel drive and gravel pad for barn. Was able to use barn with gravel floor for storage. Had septic line run into barn and added plumbing on one end so I could build a 10 by 30 apartment area. Later had concrete floor poured and they built insulated walls on concrete. I have 12k in barn and 5k in concrete and maybe another 4k to 6k in apartment materials