Going to be starting the build on the 20 x 30 with 1.5 stories in the next few months hopefully!
We live in South Carolina, and this will be my first ever house build... but I am very determined to do it, and live mortgage free when I move in
Planning on doing everything by myself EXCEPT for the electrical which I would farm out to a company
So the question is....
I know every county and state lives by different building codes they adopt and follow.... I know I can call them and ask what codes they follow and find the literature with countless pages of rules to follow
Is there a book or such that would be a "cheat sheet" of sorts that gives an individual as myself a "HOW TO" chapter by chapter to build certain aspects of the house? Such as a framing code section condensed, a roofing code section condensed, and so on?
I love the simplicity of the 20 x 30 plan on here, and it seems to be one of the easier houses to build, but the last thing I want to happen is have the building inspector come out and black flag me for something I did wrong or not up to code.... money is very tight for my family and could not afford the expense of throwing away any money by rebuilding or such
Please help
Steve
A couple of things:
First: Most of the United States has adopted the International Building Code with certain adjustments in certain areas. You can find out about those adjustments locally. Such is the case in South Carolina with specific amendments you can check online.
Second: Remember that "code" is really the building minimum. So if you are building for your family, or any human you want to be safe for that matter, building to code is more than jumping through hoops, it's the least you want to do.
Third: Typically, (and I have no idea how they do it in your county), you deal with a building inspector throughout the building process, so it's not like you'd build the whole building, be done, then find out you were not to code. Typically you will pass different stages as you go along.
Books:
House Framing, by John Wagner. If you really want to understand framing easily, I think this is the book.
Do it Yourself Housebuilding, by George Nash. This pretty much covers it all. Great book. Just one book, this would be my choice.
From the Ground Up, by John Cole and Charles Wing. My favorite book about house building. A bit dated and certainly directed to a specific type of house. Also a little touchy-feely, but I love it. It gets to the heart of all that you seem to be pursuing.
I applaud your goals. I get them. I was able to turn my remodeling efforts in a New York City apartment into a paid-for house down here in Florida for my son and I after a divorce. Tough times for me, but that home is mine. No one can take it from me. I love that. Good luck with your dream.
Why aren't you doing the electrical?
I think once you get started and start facing the challenges of building you most likely will bite off the electrical. To me it is the easiest to understand for some reason. My weak suit ----- drum roll please ---- plumbing!! But Ellen seems to have a grasp on that. When I was gone a lot she would have to take the bull by the horns once in a while and did real good at it. [cool] and she can also cook...... [hungry]
As far as code and cheats or helps yes there are a verity of code helps out there. Just do a little searching.
I agree with Rick---if you just pick up the latest NEC code book at any of the big stores, it's not nearly as hard as plumbing. They have code flipcharts there too for everything from foundations to framing to venting.
If you concentrate on each stage one at a time the whole thing is less daunting.
I've done all the work myself and the hardest thing for me is hanging doors
First let me be clear in saying I did not in any way mean to cheat at building to code.... I am intent on building the whole house at or above what is recommended with no shortcuts!!!
I guess instead of saying "cheats" I should of said "cliff notes" if anyone remembers those things
I am definitely going to try the whole plumbing system myself and use PEX for the whole system... if it were still the olden days of copper with solder and sweating, then I would call in a plumber... but I am going to try it myself as all the videos I've seen make it look like childs play almost in popping on the connections and such
Now as far as electrical..... still leaning toward calling in a pro for that one as I hate working with or on house electricity ( maybe the fact I got shocked real bad when I was a kid by holding one prong on a plug while sticking it in the outlet??? ) I will install ceiling fans and lights, but not comfortable with running a whole house electrical system!
I have never built anything that has ever needed a building inspector to come out... so I guess I am scared of how he will act and what he will do
In general, are building inspectors thorough or do they just eyeball things and see if they look good or not?
Working with a very tight budget, I have nightmares of framing the whole first floor and having him say tear it down cause I did it wrong.... that scares me!!!
Is this what you are looking for?
http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/sc/st/b4v07/index.htm?bu=SC-P-2007-999999
I use the one for NY pretty regularly. Any part of the build, you just click and read.
Let's say you want to start with the foundation. So you click chapter 4 foundation. You have to start with the footing, so you click footings. All the charts, sizing, soil values, and pictures to stay on the good side of most inspectors.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/sc/st/b4v07/st_sc_st_b4v07_4_sec003.htm?bu=SC-P-2007-999999
Please excuse my by my verbiage of cheats. Sounds like Van flashed right on what I was referring to. Just there are things out there so that you do not have to read the whole code book to build a house. You will find a lot of it never applies to your build. I am not one to advocates not following code. If something comes up and I cannot figure it out. Or to me it is a gray area I have the inspectors phone number and he can usually talk me right though a problem. Right now however I am not doing anything and I hear he is busy inspecting wind mills. [noidea'
Well I am about to pull permits to wire my shop but that is a state inspector.
See if you can set up a ride along with the local building inspector. It's a great way to learn a lot, see how picky they are, and get to know them. They aren't the enemy (there are probably exceptions I'm sure) The supply side of plumbing is easy. It's the drain side that gets tricky---proper size drains, correct venting, correct slope, knowing where it's OK to wye off, etc....It's all in those code flip charts
The codebook is the cliff notes, I can guarantee memorizing it will not make you a carpenter, it is just a book full of cheat sheets, tables, rules, etc. You have to look through the plans and the codebook to find whether what you want to do is allowed and if so, how to do it. Any book you buy about the codebook is that author's snapshot in time, it is good insight but it needs to be checked against the real code. There is no substitute for the real thing.
In your build thread you mentioned building a pier and beam foundation, this is outside of the codebook. when I plan on doing something that is outside of prescriptive, codebook, I call the inspector or go in with drawings or whatever documentation he might want to see and discuss it beforehand. Sometimes he is comfortable with it, sometimes he has a good reason why I shouldn't do it, and sometimes he says, "that is fine but I'll need an engineer's stamp".
If you post details of what you are doing beforehand some of us actually hone our knowledge by knowing or looking up the section of the codebook that discusses that detail. What happens so often is someone proudly posts a picture of what they just did, and after the fact, there isn't much to say that they will want to hear.
Don... when I do start the build I will keep it fully documented here for others to see and of course for others to help me with when I run into problems
I guess its a scarey thing when you set out by yourself to build an entire house for you and your family... but with all the insight here on this forum, it will help me and keep me going when I do start it!
I want to build the house, which is the 20 x 30 with 1.5 on concrete piers to keep the cost down versus doing a slab.... I do plan on using more piers then what the plan calls for as well
Are you saying building on top of concrete piers is not in the codebook??
Correct, it is an engineered foundation. The codebook basically outlines two ways to build. The simplest is to follow the prescriptive methods outlined in the residential codes. The other way is to engineer any parts that step outside of the codebook. I usually try to stay prescriptive. In your area I would lean towards a crawlspace or slab foundation myself. There is the codified law, what is enforced is... whatever the local building official enforces.
Quote from: Steve_B on July 22, 2012, 06:01:36 PM
Are you saying building on top of concrete piers is not in the codebook??
You got it. Some inspectors are O.K. with it. Some flat out reject it. Some require an engineer to approve it.
As a backup, a full footing and crawlspace is probably less expensive than a pier foundation but requires more labor. A slab usually requires help and hired labor, but saves on the floor. As far as costs for a $30-40K full 1200 sq. ft. house, you are usually only talking a few hundred dollars difference between most of the options.
Quote from: Squirl on July 22, 2012, 06:34:16 PM
You got it. Some inspectors are O.K. with it. Some flat out reject it. Some require an engineer to approve it.
As a backup, a full footing and crawlspace is probably less expensive than a pier foundation but requires more labor. A slab usually requires help and hired labor, but saves on the floor. As far as costs for a $30-40K full 1200 sq. ft. house, you are usually only talking a few hundred dollars difference between most of the options.
Correct me if I am wrong here sir, as I prolly are wrong!
I was under the impression that a concrete slab, lets say 20 x 30 is somewheres in the $4,000 range in terms of concrete being poured and truck expenses...... where a concrete pier system is the cost of several sonotubes and several bags of concrete
What costs am I missing in the pier system?
I don't mind labor at all.... but my budget is very very tight
I think you should calculate the cost of pier build and rethink.. The bases you need ar 40 bucks each for starters...that is about $800 to start.
It is not as cheap as you think. And a lot more unknowna in building it.
I built my house on piers, so this is not a "I do not like them " thing. But I had a reason (big slope in land).
I guess I am the one who is going to ask is your septic, well and power in?
Quote from: Steve_B on July 22, 2012, 06:46:58 PM
What costs am I missing in the pier system?
But it is more than costs. None of us here are engineers, or at least no active member has revealed themselves to be a qualified/licensed structural engineer. Some active members are experienced careful carpenters, some of our members have learned by some of their own mistakes, some are more understanding than others of the forces that can be at work in a structure under the real world variety of weather conditions.
Remember that codes are minimums. There are a number of sources for online copies of the IRC. We have some listed in the General Topics Forum. States can and do make changes, additions and deletions. If you can find a copy of your states code online, make use of it. You will find no pier foundations listed as there are many variables that can enter into whether or not a pier system is viable for that particular location.
As Don_P stated so well, ask before acting. Try to work it all through on paper before turning any dirt.
There is a great thing called "code check" the general one is laminated and is like a flio\p chart that wals u thru the whoe thing been on the market for years i used it in 95 when i built my house. building inspector just had to have one. do not know what the new editions look like but mine was a list of the 10 most common rrors in building in each catagory
Quote from: rick91351 on July 22, 2012, 07:20:42 PM
I guess I am the one who is going to ask is your septic, well and power in?
Heck, I do not even have a piece of land yet to build!
Went out today to look at 7 parcels of land with no luck at all or not even a consideration for wanting any of them.... they looked real good on the website, but when I got there in person, it was clear they were using false pictures of them online!
One lot online had a picture posted from a cross the street ith the street having a double yellow line in it..... and in person, it was literally a one lane street and the lot was VERY heavily wooded as opposed to slightly wooded online!
One lot did not even have road access as it was behind a house..... from being in real estate here in SC, that would be illegal to sell someone
Land search is not going so well!
Septic is usually first because it is the hardest to place on the land. Also since you are on a budget spending $30K on a house and the possibility of a $20k septic later would not be pleasant. If considering a slab, you will want your plumbing in place off the bat.
Yes. You are missing a few thing on the cost of the piers vs slab.
Footings
Beams.
Brackets.
Bracing.
Skirting.
Subflooring.
Joists.
A slab skips all of that and will cost close to the same cost. Slabs are best for fairly level sites. $4000 for an entire house is a pretty good price. That would be just a little more than the price to get the subfloor on and insulated for a 20x30. The inspector would be happy and you would get all the steps done above in one shot. Because the weight of the building is evenly distributed across a large surface, you shouldn't have to worry about the possibility of it shifting like with piers.
I do remember one South Carolina build that required an engineer stamp fore piers.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=11318.msg155573#msg155573
Great job. By the time you pay the engineer, it probably would be cheaper and faster just to do a quickwall. Don't be intimidated by other foundation types, especially if your building inspector is not friendly to piers. Plenty of people here to help you walk through them. If doing most of the labor yourself almost all options come out within a few hundred dollars of each other. 6 one way, a half a dozen the other.
I did come home from your state today, from around Clemson through Gaffney... we're in peaches [cool]
Spent the evening in Greenville along the river. Nice country up that way but a bit far to commute.
While on the subject of foundations....
Curious here.... reading about them on the site here and online, it seems everyone prefers pressure treated 6 x 6 over concrete piers
Any input or thoughts on this??
Quote from: Squirl on July 22, 2012, 10:12:16 PM
Septic is usually first because it is the hardest to place on the land. Also since you are on a budget spending $30K on a house and the possibility of a $20k septic later would not be pleasant. If considering a slab, you will want your plumbing in place off the bat.
Agreed... and that was going to be priority number one when I get the land
All my friends and a few estimates for the county I will build in say between $1500 to $1800 tops for a septic install
Guess I am lucky with it being that cheap!
Hey Squirl.... what is a quickwall I ask???
Does anyone know if cinder blocks are allowed as a foundation for IRC building code?
I can't find any reference to them in there as for a yes or no
Quote from: Don_P on July 22, 2012, 10:28:31 PM
I did come home from your state today, from around Clemson through Gaffney... we're in peaches [cool]
Spent the evening in Greenville along the river. Nice country up that way but a bit far to commute.
You snuck by within about ten miles of my build! Best peaches in the world, IMHO.
Curious here.... reading about them on the site here and online, it seems everyone prefers pressure treated 6 x 6 over concrete piers
The 6x6 can either go in the ground and right up to support the beams, or can rest on concrete piers or you can do concrete all the way up. Pros and cons to each. Piers with posts mean you have a connection at the concrete and wood interface (that is the Simpson connectors being talked about). Wood posts all the way down means you have wood in the ground resting on some type of footer to distribute the weight in the soil. I personally do not like the idea of wood in the ground, but it is done. you need to do quite a bit of homework before you do pies...soil bearing capacity is a good place to start...the inspector is another. I would chat with him/her and get a first reaction.
Just a note....on foundations here, there are two types being discussed and a bit of mixing. Slab and crawl space. Different..with a crawl space you will need joists, beams and sub flooring. So in your comparison, keep them separate.
Also, to keep costs down level ground is best...will do away with need for a lot of excavation, which costs money.
I do need to get directions Jay, I knew we were close.
Steve, section 404, " concrete and masonry foundation walls" concrete block is the masonry there.
A wood post pinned to a concrete pier is something that has evolved here independent of any qualified review. The Simpson post base and beam connectors are not designed to resist the lateral loads this configuration experiences. That is the reason this type of foundation needs to be designed by someone competent in structural engineering.
What are the feelings of building the foundation for a 20 x 30 1.5 story out of cinder blocks?
Using the standard 8 x 8 x 16 block and stacking them three blocks high would give me roughly 24 inches under the joists to work with in terms of installing drains and such
If my calculations are correct, it would take 225 ( 8 x 8 x 16 ) cinder blocks to do a three tier level
Any thoughts on this idea for a foundation?
http://www.sakrete.com/products/detail.cfm/prod_alias/Surface-Bonding-Cement
Quickwall is the name brand for quikrete's SBC system.
Yes, cinder blocks are known as hollow concrete masonry units (cmu) in the code.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/sc/st/b4v07/st_sc_st_b4v07_4_sec004.htm?bu2=undefined
South Carolina's code is a little sparse on information, but relying on the larger IRC should suffice. Just run it by your inspector.
http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_4_sec004_par001.htm
225 sounds about right. Lots of people here have built 20x30's with concrete blocks.
(http://captainofcalamity.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/IMG_0610.150114503.JPG)
By recollection it is 15 blocks on one side, 14 on the other and 22 down each of the long sides. Then just alternate the other side to 15 and 14. Perfect fit for a 20x30. Your plans probably call for a 2x12 center beam, I went with a triple 2x8 because they fit better in the 8" block pocket.
I'd suggest you consider another block high..make it a lot easier to work underneath. little extra cost.
Squirl..what kind of footings do you have for your blocks?
What are your center piers like?
The wall footings are 7" thick, 12" wide with 2 strips of #4 rebar. I wanted to go large enough to have the option of someone adding a second floor if someone wanted to someday. The building will outlive me and other people tend to want more space.
The center piers are five 16"x16" 4000 psi concrete with #4 rebar at ground level. There is a half block mortared above that with a simpson bracket to a PT 6x6. I then toe nailed that to each girder and nailed a plate over each.
I bought blocks last year. From the local block company they were about $1.25. So without the mortar, you are probably talking about $100 per course.
i have just under $3000 into my pier and beam to the same point as a slab would put me. i could have had a slab put in for almost the same. only reason i went with the pier is it allowed me to.build it and pay for it in three steps instead of paying for the whole slab at one time.
I would just like to say thank you to all for the information, advice, thoughts, and help!
I daringly say that I am counting on all of you to get me through building my house!
Squirl..
Why the half block on the center line?
Steve...
Important to run stuff by the group before going to far with most stuff...as you did here I did that and it saved me a lot of heartache and redoing stuff. Once you do it, can be really tough to take the advice. You'll get some different opinions on some stuff, but you can sort them out with a bit more work. I also got a lot of tips on making it easier which came from experience of others doing it many times and passing it on to me.
If you have not sone so, pays in spades to go back and look at various builds as they were documented. Just the pics can show a lot and there is discussion around lots of key topics. I learned about nails.screws on here!! Lots to learn and it made my house better.
The half block was simply to try and better distribute the downward force across a larger surface area. Rather than have 30 square inches transition to 256 square inches , I had 30 square inches transition to 56 square inches, then 256 square inches. In reality the thickness of the concrete along with the 4000 psi strength could probably have handled the full load in one spot, I just felt more comfortable distributing it.
Quote from: Squirl on July 24, 2012, 08:57:32 AM
The half block was simply to try and better distribute the downward force across a larger surface area. Rather than have 30 square inches transition to 256 square inches , I had 30 square inches transition to 56 square inches, then 256 square inches. In reality the thickness of the concrete along with the 4000 psi strength could probably have handled the full load in one spot, I just felt more comfortable distributing it.
As an ex-concrete guy [cool] looks like you did good! I did like those houses however that we poured with a center footing and a knee wall was framed on the footing.
X2 on code check for electrical reference. I also bought an NEC book and found it to be almost worthless in respect to how expensive they are.
Do not fear your electrical install!!!! You can save a ton of money doing your own rough-in for the electrical, and it is fun and easy.
Consider laying in your grounding rods when doing your foundation.
The ride along with the inspector is an interesting idea. I wish I had thought of that. Good way to get to know your inspector too.
Here in NM, you can pull your own plumbing and electrical permits, but you need to pass a written test to do so. The code check book was sufficient for me to use as a study aid.