permanent living in remote areas ... Pros/Cons?

Started by hnash53, November 30, 2007, 04:03:53 PM

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hnash53

I am thinking about building onto my existing cabin, doubling it's current size.  It is located in a remote area of western Wyoming at about 8000-8500 feet in elevation.  Most years (although not this year) access is by snowmobile from sometime in November to sometime in April.  I am considering living there full time once the addition is complete.

The cabin is about 20 miles from the nearest town of less than 5000 people.  It will be totally offgrid, powered by wind and sun, heated by wood.

I am wondering if there are those of you who are already living permanently in remote areas like this, or you have previously lived in remote areas ... what is it like?  I'm mostly interested in the mental/psychological aspects of such an existence. ???

I myself don't like big crowds, and matter-of-factly, small crowds bug me, too.  I like a few friends, physical work of my own choosing, and an uncomplicated life.

If you care to share such an experience I would appreciate hearing what you have to say.

Thanks.

ScottA

Are you planning to do this alone or with a spouse/family? I lived for 15 months in a remote area in Colorado at about 8900' elevation. I had a 40 mile drive one way to work and town was 15 miles away so it's close to what you're talking about. I enjoyed living there except when we had snowstorms. Getting out after a storm was often an all day affair of heavy work. If you don't need to dive to work that might not be so bad. I had to dig out 2-3 times a month during the winter so it was no fun not mention the lost income from not working those days. Storms always hit on work days. It gets cold for 9 months out of the year so unless you like cold forget it. You might not think it's so bad if you've only gone for a few days at a time but try below 0 for 3-4 weeks straight. In the end I decided it wasn't for me.


hnash53

Hey thanks for the reply.  I like snow and love cross country skiing.  I'm hoping my wife will do this with me. She's not sold on the idea.  I don't have to go to a job everyday.  I'm hoping that I can do some online selling to make some $$.  I have a modest retirement fund that will provide  a regular income, but won't get rich from it.  The cold doesn't bother me as long as I can eventually get warm.

We don't get the snow that CO gets but enough that I will have to snowmobile in and out for 6-7 months.  the ride is about 7-9 miles to get to where I can drive my vehicle.

Thanks for sharing!!

desdawg

I would like to do it, at least for a while. My location has friendlier weather than what you will have and is about 15 miles form a town of 800 or so people. I plan to be there next summer for sure. And I do have year round access with a 4 wheel drive. The biggest problem of course is the almighty dollar. I have many entanglements from my present life along with the normal expenses that will go on. (gas, propane, food, vehicle maintenance, etc.) I have a lot of home brewed building projects in mind up there and a good start on the needed materials. I think I could be content for quite a while. I don't know about forever. I am a one day at a time kind of guy.
Like you I don't need a lot of people around, in fact I prefer the opposite. A trip to a grocery store now and again will suffice. I have been a loner most of my life.
Anyway I think this is a great topic. And I look forward to seeing some other responses.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.

MountainDon

I could not live on a permanent basis in such a remote type of area, with winters severe enough to cut off the use of even a well outfitted 4x4.

My mountain property faces similar winter issues. Soon, probably this weekend, access by 4x4 may simply become difficult, or more than likely not possible except by snowmobile . I do have access to a place to park the 4x4 when a snowmobile becomes necessary. However, the issue of whether or not the 4x4 would be a victim of vandals or outright stolen is another matter.

My moniker may be MountainDon, but unless the world does actually go to heck in a handbasket, I'd rather not have to live up there in the winter. Spring, summer and fall are another matter. However, at this point in my semi-retired life that is not practical either. The daily requirements of the business needs our presence mid-August through May and it's too fat to commute daily. We spent most of June through August up there this summer and we loved it.

I measure the distances to town and civilizations amenities in terms of time rather than miles. The paved highway is about 15 minutes to a week away from the mountain property, depending on conditions. The nearest small town, Los Alamos is about a 50 minute drive from that point, on dry summer mountain paved roads. The nearest bigger city (current home) is another 75 minutes in the other direction on a good day.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

I meant to include in that prior post that everything I stated pertains to my present situation; 61+ years old with an adult son on his own, and my wife of 30 years with me still.  :o

If this was say 20 years ago, when we were younger, I would have still loved to spend summers up there. But not winters. If there are children involved the picture changes a lot for me.

I applaud those who successfully home school their children. That is quite an undertaking. We did not choose that route as we were not sure we could do as a good a job as the private schools we did use. Living up there in the mountains with a child in a government school would have involved way too bus driving and/or bus time.

My other concern, where children are involved, is the availability of health care facilities. Being snowbound and in need of medical assistance is something to consider. As we get older that can also be something to consider.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Erin

Quotethe ride is about 7-9 miles to get to where I can drive my vehicle.
and
QuoteThe cabin is about 20 miles from the nearest town of less than 5000 people.
I don't consider this all that remote, myself.   [noidea'

Since I currently have young kids, I wouldn't want to live where it was that hard to get them in to school. But without them, or the need to go to a job daily, I wouldn't hesitate!  :D

(BTW, I've lived in areas where you park your vehicle at the oil and ride the tractor/4wheeler/sled back to the house when the weather is bad.  Not quite the same as months on end, but it gives one a feel...  And I haven't lived closer than 50 miles to a town of 5000 in over ten years. ;) )
The wise woman builds her own house... Proverbs 14:1

glenn kangiser

#7
Do you have a backup plan if the snowmobile conks out in the middle of the drive, Hal?hmm

I'm about like most of you guys- not too upset if I don't see anybody for a while --heck -- there's always CountryPlans.

We are 4 miles from a town of 1700 and about 40 miles from anything larger.  That's close enough.  As we are on a mountain ridge with only one road in it seems even more remote, but we have little of the cold to deal with.  Plenty of wild critters around if there is ever a serious need for survival.  In the real mountain cold like you have -- it wouldn't appeal to me.  As desdawg is,-- I'm still a bit too trapped in the system.

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

MountainDon

Quote from: glenn kangiser on November 30, 2007, 10:46:37 PM
Do you have a backup plan if the snowmobile conks out in the middle of the drive
That too, is on my concern list. Stranded in winter is never a good thing. Deep snow makes for poor hiking. I hate snowshoes, though I've never tried any of the more modern variations.

This reminded me of another thing I forgot. ::)
Hauling in supplies with just a snowmobile has got to be a lot of fuss and bother. There are snow sled "trailers" available, but that's another thing to have to bother with...
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

We've talked about possibly living up there in the mountains most of the year after we retire and possibly selling the present suburban home. We'd reclaim one of our rental condos as our "city" and winter address. The hole in that is where do I keep my stuff in the garage/shop?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

ScottA

Other issues we had to deal with...Elk in the yard...bears in the trash...vandals, we got broken into twice in one year. Nothing stolen just broken glass and a mess.

MountainDon

Quote from: ScottA on November 30, 2007, 11:57:02 PM
Elk in the yard...bears in the trash...
Forgot about the wildlife...
Elk... not too bad until they start trashing trees in the fall  >:(  Okay if they come calling "in season"  :)
Bears... I took to keeping a firearm handy for a while this fall.  :-\

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

ScottA

Every Elk around where we lived spent the hunting season at the Evergreen golf course about 15 miles away. Somehow they knew no one was allowed to hunt at the golf course. A local guy got arrested for shooting a bear that was in his house. Seems he was suposed to leave and let the bear do what it wanted acording to the law. I never will understand that.

John Raabe

Hal:

Good to hear from you again. Want to be a hermit, huh?

Well there's a long American history of making a life away from civilization. Thoreau, The guy on PBS who built the Alaska cabin and then documented it with a wind up movie camera... lots more we could come up with. Some are cultural heroes.

I love solitude too, but don't know what I would feel like after two weeks. I do think civilization is probably overrated and the mental fear of being isolated out there will likely be much scarier than the reality.

I guess the worst that could happen is you go all "Into the Wild" on us. :(

It's a very personal choice and hard to give advice to someone on... still, I've seen your cabin. It could be worse! ;D
None of us are as smart as all of us.


peternap

I spent a winter in a firetower on a mountain top called reddish knob.
Your biggest problem is going to be cabin fever.
If your wife isn't 100%, your marriage will get a very tough test.

Animals aren't much of a problem except bears like to check everything out. ;D
These here is God's finest scupturings! And there ain't no laws for the brave ones! And there ain't no asylums for the crazy ones! And there ain't no churches, except for this right here!

Erin

Don alluded to this, but it's a definate con:  medical care.

Baby number #2 was born when we were living 50 miles from our nearest hospital.  (The town, biggest in the area, was 2000 people).  If was getting pretty exciting those last ten miles.  ;)

I had a lodged kidney stone when we were living on a ranch 15 miles from pavement, and 70 miles from our nearest hospital (in a town of 1500).  Weather was perfect, but the drive to town was still agonizingly long.  And then, because renal failure was bigger than our little local hospital was equipped to handle, I was put on a plane and flown another 100 miles to Rapid City. 

Now imagine that with a broken limb.  Or heart attack or stroke where time is of the essence. 
and for the worst-case scenario, imagine it as the middle January with 4 feet of snow on the ground...

just something to consider.

--Erin
The wise woman builds her own house... Proverbs 14:1

hnash53

Thanks for all the replies and the experiences and thoughts.

1.  Snowmobiles are only one option for accessing this place in the winter.  I would probably buy some kind of snow vehicle with a cab on it.  I've looked up Cushman tracksters, Argos.  What other vehicles with cabs do you all know of? ???

2.  I'm 54. Worked since a sophomore in high school.  In terms of medical access and cost, I'm at the point that I am no longer willing to sell my soul for the high cost of medical insurance and easy physical access to medical care.  I've sold my soul for decades for security, comfort, and convenience ... and I'm no happier for it. :-[

3.  Yeah, I'm scared to do it.  But the alternative of remaining how and where I am ... well, I'll just say that the cost (and I don't mean $$) is getting too high to stay where I am.

4.  Yes some would say that I am going to be a hermit, but there are others who live up there year round.  I realize that it would be to my advantage to begin networking with full-timers up there for help when needed, and a face when the walls start closing in.

Thanks for all your input so far.  Any further comments are welcome.

MountainDon

#17
I've seen a variety of tracked cabbed snow vehicles over the years. Most if not all, that were available for purchase were too well used, or rather too badly used and too poorly maintained to be a real bargain. For my money there's no sene getting something old without going through everything with a fine toothed comb. It's one thing to break down spring thru fall (no snow). But it's a whole different ball of wax when the temperatures are below freezing and something happens. Been there, done that, didn't like it.

Bombardier, Thiokol, Tucker Sno-Cat are some of the names that come to mind. There's a guy with an LMC two seater, enclosed cab near me. It's an early 80's model. He paid over $10K for it and spent more on repairs. They're all larger than any Cushman I've seen.

What's the local snow history like? How many feet of accumulation, from what month to what month?

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

StinkerBell

#18
My one suggestion would be is to see if you an have on hand a supply of antibiotics, in case for example you get pneumonia. If you have asthma make sure you have something like predisone on hand. An expanded first aid kit is what I am thinking.

desdawg

If you are going to try to cover all of the possible mishaps you probably ought to stay in town. My favorite movie is Jeremiah Johnson with Robert Redford. When Jeremiah had been a moving target for the entire Crow nation, one man at a time, and he was worn out and tired he ran into old Del, another mountain man. Del said "Jeremiah, maybe you should go down to a town." To which Jeremiah replied "I've been to a town Del." I jumped out of my seat and cheered with visions of lines of people, lines of cars, lines of lines and HOA's dancing in my head. It was a spiritual moment.  ;)
If you want to go, go. If it get's to be too much come on back. It doesn't have to be a one way ticket and would probably do you some good. I know it would do me some. I am 59 by the way.
I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.


John_C

Desdawg

Quote from: desdawg on December 01, 2007, 06:27:24 PM
If you are going to try to cover all of the possible mishaps you probably ought to stay in town. .........My favorite movie is Jeremiah Johnson with Robert Redford. When Jeremiah had been a moving target for the entire Crow nation, one man at a time, and he was worn out and tired he ran into old Del, another mountain man. Del said "Jeremiah, maybe you should go down to a town." To which Jeremiah replied "I've been to a town Del." .....

You got me thumping on the table and watching that part of Jeremiah Johnson again during supper.  Robert Redford's delivery of that line is spectacular.  It comes off like  "I'd rather be attacked, one by one, by all the Indians in the world then go back to a town."

You also touch on what has spoiled rural living.  People move to a rural/remote area and almost immediately they muse... "you know how few of the roads are paved?".....  "you realize police response time is terrible and the fire department is nearly useless?".....  "We need a trauma center." ....  '"Do you know how far we are from a decent cardiologist?" 

I am the curmudgeon at large who ask why they moved out of the city.

I ride my bicycle almost every evening.  I and a few others live down a dead end road surrounded by woods.  I tell people that what is good about my ride is what's bad about my ride.  I often ride for an hour without seeing a car, person or dog ( I do see lot's of deer and turkey and the occasional bear).  It is really wonderful,  A year ago in April I fell and broke my hip.  It was about 45 min. before anyone found me and they had to drive out for a mile or so before they could get a cell phone signal. 

I was back on my bike doing the same hilly ride 7 weeks after surgery.  Do I think about another fall... of course.  But, if I lived in the city a drunk driver or gang banger would likely have taken me out long ago.

BTW  I am also 59.

desdawg

Hey John, it's good to run across someone who is like minded and a Jeremiah Johnson fan. I think medical contingencies are over rated and 90% of all medical problems are psychosomatic. If you can think yourself sick why can't you think yourself well and just have everything be all right? The last time I was a patient in a hospital was the day I was born in one. When the medical profession needs a shot in the checkbook they just get Oprah or someone to talk about the symptoms for the latest and greatest disease and within a week or so 30% of all the housewives in America have developed the majority of the symptoms. Seems to work out real well for them.  :)










I have done so much with so little for so long that today I can do almost anything with absolutely nothing.

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

John_C

If you like Jeremiah Johnson I recommend the PBS video on the Lewis and Clark expedition.  There are so many parts that are either amazing or will cause you to be scratching your head.  For example when they reached the Columbia river basin, home to the most plentiful salmon fishing in the world, the Lewis & Clark expedition refused to eat salmon and traded for dogs to eat.

There is a funny part near the end of part 1 where they got acquainted with grizz.

They conducted their expedition under extreme conditions, and with very limited knowledge of what they would encounter, yet lost only one man. He died, in all likelihood, of a burst appendix and he would not have survived even if the most advanced medical facilities of the day had been available.

Re. Jeremiah Johnson  Did you pick up in the very beginning where he is " looking for a Hawken rifle .50 cal. or better.  He settled for a .30 but it was a Hawken" ?   A .50  would be a bit light .58 being preferred, but a .30 would be nearly useless.  it would have fired a 110 grain round ball a low velocity.  In the east it would be a squirrel or target rifle.  Marginal at best for deer,  WAY underpowered for elk and it would really piss off a bear.  I never figured out if this was a mistake in the movie or the first evidence of what a pilgrim Jeremiah was at that stage.

tanya

I lived in remote areas most of my life raising three children on my own, sometimes they had a long bus ride, other times we homeschooled other times it was neighborhood car pool.  It really isn't much different from living in town.  I tend to be pretty choosy about who I associate with.  Neighbors are important in the mountains but just as important in town, nothing takes the place of decent folks in the neighborhood.  Don't worry about access to much, the rigs will break down anyway.  Medical care?  well that is laughable since chances are you will get worse once you see a doctor.  The key issues are to focus on safety, warmth and water.  Yes I have spent MONTHS melting snow and bringing buckets of water from a creek a half a mile away and yes I have had bears in my house before, even living in town is a hassle when your rig breaks down and you need to get dogfood at a moments notice.  It is jsut all in the planning.  Stock up the pantry, woodshed and insulate the water system as good as possible and go for it. There is always town to go back to if you get ill or tired.  Some people actually make the home base  in the mountains and just rent a small apt. in town for the worst months of winter. 
Peresrverance, persistance and passion, keys to the good life.