Like your house ??? Now if it stands in the way of increased tax revenue private developers can take it. Thanks, government, "Supreme" court, and developers.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44958
Maybe this will help.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45029
Glenn - are you speaking "socially?" :)
A few years ago when I lived in Hurst, Texas.
The city decided to upgrade and expand the 20-year-old NorthEast Mall complex.
They zoned something like 30 acres of nearby residential area as commercial.
People that lived in the area for 30 years were forced to move.
I think it was the first time in Texas the imminent domain law was used for a commercial purpose.
http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws79.htm
They are doing the same thing right now in Arlington Texas to make room for the new Cowboys football Stadium.
I just want to make people aware of the loss of their property rights. I don't do much about it-- just like the rest of us ostrich's.
I think the difference now is that rather than take your home for the expansion of a public use place a developer can take your house with government help just if you stand in the way of his private project if he can prove that his project will generate more tax revenue than your living there does. This can theoretically take anyones home in the US if it is desired by a private interest.
In Hurst Texas, It was a very stange view after they dozed all of the houses and trees. The only thing remaining for a while was the road, driveways, and some of the foundations. It looked like something from a nuclear war. People chained themselves to toilets in their houses, trees in their yards, only to be removed by law officials. I stood next to one middle aged couple as they watched their home of 30 years reduced to rubble. They only started crying when the bull dozer pushed over a tree they planted the day they got married and moved in.
Hi Glenn, everybody:
It would be interesting to know how the Justice Souter case plays out, considering how highly placed he is in the Justice Department........with his power and influence vs. a local gov't body, a final judgment could take years..... (and all of this in the "live free or die" state.... imagine that!).......
(My two cents) One of the ways people can try to "avoid" something like this (if it is possible) is to buy rural land, try to live as far away from development as they can and hope for the best
(and praying wouldn't hurt).
Here in western Massachusetts, eminent domain laws go back a long time in history and are deeply embedded in the minds of the local population..... in the late 1930's the state confiscated four entire towns, large ammounts of private property and flooded the region to create a huge reservoir (Quabbin Reservoir) so the city of Boston would have drinking water......
So, you see....... it's the same if you live in Texas, or Massachusetts, or anywhere else in the country........
Best wishes to all of you,
ebass
glenn, thank u for starting this disscusion. the best way to take rights from people is slowly, and quietly. jews were told years before the holocaust they just couldn't own dogs. pretty scary....
Yeah, eminent domain has been around and used regularly for roadways and bridges. My company has worked on the side of the people losing their land to boost the value of the land many times. The new issue is how easy it is to invoke eminent domain with this new ruling. It was supposed to be for the public's rights to outweigh private interests. With this ruling private interests are being pitted against private interests based on what kind of economic bonus can be had by the public. This is not good at all, and you can bet there will be many cases in urban areas challenging this ruling. I can think of a few projects I have worked on where it would be convenient to "take" an abutter's property to build a detention basin or entrance for a subdivision....believe me, this is coming unless the ruling is reversed somehow.
I think that it will not be long before some owers will stand there ground and want to fight it out. If they use violence it will draw a lot of notice. It was one thing when it was for public use but private is just plain BULL!
Kevin
Hey ebass...New Englander test: does "I can walk like a penguin." or "It's fun to find out what your voice really sounds like." mean anything to you? ;)
BOHICA - remember this ALWAYS ;D
Tell me Daddymem,
is that tag line from "Nuits de Reve" (nights of dreams) by those fabulous Canadian boys Moxy Fruvous ...?
jonsey.
:D
The lobby groups in washington are unreal,The last Yatch We built in maine was for a communications lobby ,the customer didnt sail and was not intrested in a maiden voyage?????When the yard owner asked (then why did You just buy the most expensive 34 foot sailboat in history???)340 thousand 1988 dollars-------- his answer was "this boat is for our legislators to use." and last I heard it was ported in annapolis. My Years repairing and building yatchs taught me the very wealthy are above the law for the most part. :'(
If only they weren't so brazen, huh, Chuck :-/ Seems like they love to do that to me.
The destruction of our rights is one of my pet peeves, Monica. My great grandparents homesteaded in Oregon --seems I should be grandfathered in ;D
We tell ourselves we have all this freedom and we are in the greatest place in the world, but many times it is only because we are not the ones crying as our home is demolished for a shopping center or dam or prison. When the time comes that it is actually our own home, maybe reality will set in.
Hopefully I'm not too far out of line on this. Don't want to get my tit in the wringer, but hey, John - it does have the word "home" in the subject line. Well - it started out that way - as it got too long I guess they can now take our hom :-/
QuoteTell me Daddymem,
is that tag line from "Nuits de Reve" (nights of dreams) by those fabulous Canadian boys Moxy Fruvous ...?
jonsey.
:D
WOW! Somebody else knows of them!
The power of the rich....I run into it all the time with work we do on Nantucket (a small island off the cape full of rich vacation homes). Just yesterday I was at a site right on the ocean with a beautiful cottage that had been made sooo quaint with small additions over the years. Well, that will be gone soon. The new owners pad over $5 million for this property and they will be at best, moving part of the house aside to serve as a guest house to make room for their 5,000+ sf home designed by some mucky-muck Italian architects. This is the mentality the rich have, they can do whatever they want, and there rarely is anyone that says they can't. On the other hand, here is the perfect place to try eminent domain. Take the house and turn it into an information building, build a parking area and provide public access to a beautiful secluded beach. That is a draw to tourism which in turn is an economic improvement for the Town, no?
Quote
WOW! Somebody else knows of them!
You bet Daddymem,
BOHICA, "I can walk like a penguin." or "It's fun to find out what your voice really sounds like." Sound like they could be song titles from those boys.
jonesy.
;D
The local officals are licking their chops here. Target wants to put in a large distribution center and the government owns land next to the interstate, a good site but not enough land, soo the local family farm is wanted. The land owner wants to preserve his family land and farm. We have lost a lot of jobs in this area over the last few years and everyone is taking up sides. Target says 1ooo jobs. it will be very interesting.
Mark
glenn, my great- grandparents were native americans, the original homesteaders :) i guess they weren't too far off on their land ownership theories.
I heard on the news last night that there is an effort in NH. to take one of the judges home for a hotel. I dought it would happen but It was a nice idea.
Kevin
Check the second link in the first posting I made, Kevin. The proposed motel.
It has been going on with the Native Americans since we got here, Monica. Here's a story from Mariposa on how we "acquired" Yosemite National Park - The Mariposa War - complete with military and all. This history happened at my doorstep. I have many local native American friends.
http://www.militarymuseum.org/Mariposa1.html
Quote
You bet Daddymem,
BOHICA, "I can walk like a penguin." or "It's fun to find out what your voice really sounds like." Sound like they could be song titles from those boys.
jonesy.
;D
Naw, those quotes don't have to do with Moxy...but anyone who lived in New England during the 80's would know the reference. Interestingly enough, this fact was pointed out to me by an Aussie who was a friend of a friend of mine both of whom relocated to down under, possibly due to the influence of Vegamite. ;)
BTW...WTH R U Aussies doing with penguins?! ???
Daddymem:
Nope!...... Means nothin' to me!.........never heard of 'em at this end of the state........gonna do a websearch soon and see who they are and what they're about........
ebass
Hrmmm you live in the Happy Valley? Or maybe in the Beavah Fevah area? :P
Yikes!
http://www.castlecoalition.org/report/pdf/ED_report.pdf
If you are an activist and interested:
http://www.castlecoalition.org/
I cannot say whether they are legit or not, but it appears they have some information to help get the ball rolling with your local government.
In happy valley......(what a name!) ::)
Ayahh........good cowhn weathah!........ ;D
Ok, I'll take the bait........what is beavah fevah?
I miss the farm stands there, the silver corn...mmmmmmm.
Imagine what can now happen at the used to be dead mall, now known as the live mall. All them surrounding fields could go to developers wanting to put in chain restaurants or big-box stores. Or maybe Pete's gets knocked down in favor of a Starbucks. :-/
Beaver fever happened in Pittsfield where giardia (a parasite) got into the potable water supply and made many people sick including some Town officials. It was believed to be caused by beaver feces. Gotta keep reminding people of this every time the earthy crunchies decide that trapping is wrong.
For more info:
http://www.responsiblewildlifemanagement.org/beaver_fever.htm
Here in WA, and I think ten other states, there are state laws which prohibit Eminent Domain takings except for roadways and the like, unless the area is "blighted."
Remember, privilege literally means "private law."
Beaver fever-intestenial flu. :'(
Usually, If I'm going to eat them, I like my wild beasts as freshly "harvested" as possible, and definitely well-cooked........it normally kills off the parasites.....saw some photos recently, of parasites taken from humans (mostly in other countries), in an academic book on the subject.......quite nasty!....some are 3 ft long and big around as your thumb........others crawl around under the skin and poke through anywhere they want......even eyes!.......like something out of one of the "alien" movies........
Enough on that subject.......
Yeah, Rte 9 in Hadley could become just another strip mall......
but, if it does, just wait for another flood like 1936........
hey ebass, tropical medicine and parasitology by peters and gilles? i have the 4th edition, and wanted the latest 6th edition, couldn't order from anyone execpt publisher, $1,200.00!!!! just curious.....micro and parasitology r my true passions!!!
Vojacek, ya could slap me sensless...... and I still wouldn't remember the name of it!........unreal pictures though.........I'll ask the guy that showed me, if he can remember the name of the book, next time I see him.......come to think of it, .........it could have been online........well, anyway..... I'll try to get ya some sorta reference...........
Y'all have a good July 4th........
ebass
If you wish to monitor progress on the "Lost Liberty Hotel" proposed to be built on Souter's land, here is a link to the site.
http://www.freestarmedia.com/index.html
If you chose to invest in it, don't hold me responsible if you lose money. However if you strike it rich and wish to send me a commission------ ;D Just kidding - keep your wealth -
Wonder if this is just the beginning...I can think of a thousand better uses for this nice lush parcel of land on Pennsylvania Avenue in DC if there is anyone interested.
And it begins- not limited to home, but also family owned small businesses that don't generate enough tax revenue.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/02/BAGO4DI6GJ1.DTL
Update courtesy of the Daily Rotten.
I don't think that kind of c--- (ahem, says the ghost of an old parts place owner, "it's not crap, it's fine merchandise! Fine Merchandise!") is exactly new.
Friends were within a block of being displaced by Urban Renewal in the early 60's near the U. of Chicago. In the early 70's Vanderbilt wanted to expand their hospital. Either they or whatever city department was in charge of this ended up having a lot of trouble finding a place for an old auto mechanic, his shop, family and 15 cats. There wasn't anything remotely comparable. Certainly nothing within walking distance for area students/musicians.
And just recently Belmont University (overgrown college!) is trying to force out a nearby neighborhood. First by offering to buy, but the next step is to put a 5-story parking garage across the street from them.
Vojacek:
Regarding parasites, check out these: (2 books and 1 website).........1) Manson's tropical diseases by Wilcocks & Manson-Bahr... 2) The life that lives on man by Michael Andrews ... 3) www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/images.html - 5k
Thinking back, it was the website with it's color pictures I remembered most vividly, Necator americanus (hookworms), Ascaris (human and pig roundworms), Loa loa, and Toxocara canis (intestinal roundworm of dogs).......not the books.
Enjoy! ;D
ebass
Nearly everybody is angry with that supreme court decision, even the people who think that a lot of the property rights arguments are nonsense. (Does the government have the right to stand in for common sense?--sometimes that is what it sounds like)
Part of the problem with eminent domain for "development" is that often it never happens.
Or the local governments give away all their property taxes for the forseeable future so that an industry will come, and they'll make it up in jobs, they hope.
Here's an article that puts the decision into more perspective--rest of the column is pretty interesting:
http://www.alternet.org/story/23351/
"Justice Sandra Day O'Connor declared [in her dissent], "Nothing is to prevent the state from replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping mall or any farm with a factory."
That's the bad news.
The good news is that the Court's decision does not prevent states and localities from adopting a different approach. "We emphasize that nothing in our opinion precludes any state from placing further restrictions on its exercise of the takings power."
I subscribe to Jim Hightower's Lowdown newsletter. In a recent article he pointed out just how much taxpayer money goes into the bidding wars for corporate facilities (all in the name of JOBS! - most of which never materialize).
Read it here: http://tinyurl.com/cho4j
I can easily see how this same political "clout" could be used to justify property grabs to "sweeten the pot" for these corporate projects.
I guess supporting local small businesses or mere voters can't compare to the rush of a high profile corporate ribbon cutting ceremony.
Headline today.
"Eliminate blight, " of course can have lots of meanings to different people.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050719/ap_on_re_us/seizing_property;_ylt=AjLe6B.N99sVkabHV9HqLFSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
CHICAGO - Alarmed by the prospect of local governments seizing homes and turning the property over to developers, lawmakers in at least half the states are rushing to blunt last month's U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding the power of eminent domain.
In Texas and California, legislators have proposed constitutional amendments to bar government from taking private property for economic development. Politicians in Alabama, South Dakota and Virginia likewise hope to curtail government's ability to condemn land.
Even in states like Illinois — one of at least eight that already forbid eminent domain for economic development unless the purpose is to eliminate blight — lawmakers are proposing to make it even tougher to use the procedure.
"People I've never heard from before came out of the woodwork and were just so agitated," said Illinois state Sen. Susan Garrett, a Democrat. "People feel that it's a threat to their personal property, and that has hit a chord."
The Institute for Justice, which represented homeowners in the Connecticut case that was decided by the Supreme Court, said at least 25 states are considering changes to eminent domain laws.
The Constitution says governments cannot take private property for public use without "just compensation." Governments have traditionally used their eminent domain authority to build roads, reservoirs and other public projects. But for decades, the court has been expanding the definition of public use, allowing cities to employ eminent domain to eliminate blight.
Progress report - second "Justice" may lose home.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45516
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/domination.html
:o enjoy
That's a good one, Amanda. I hope to invest in one of the judges house replacement projects just on principal-- a token amount anyway.
I have a feeling that the judge's houses replacement projects are token in themselves anyway.
On the order of the guy who decided that turn-about was fair play, and sued to have the Bible banned from library shelves. Would he have taken if he'd gotten it? Probably, but that wasn't the point.
(just caught a typo that would have been invisible to a spell-checker--remembered that truly dreadful--I sent it everywhere--poem that Daddymem posted)
Update on the Kelo case... actually it's a month old but I just saw it....
http://fairfieldweekly.com/gbase/News/content?oid=oid:119000
How low can the SCUMBAGS get ???
Is the city TRYING to lose big-time?
We can only hope the city loses. :(
This mornings Dallas Morning News has an article on the front page concerning a tv show to air sometime next week on a completed confication in Hurst, TX of some 150 homes for an extension of a shopping mall. This took place 5 or 6 years ago and the mall is now complete and the city is reaping huge income from sales taxes collected from the site. The article talks about how the city had actually reduced property taxes (very slightly) and provided more new services...spening more of our tax dollars....but, says virtually nothing about the poor homeowners displaced 'for the good of the city'.
It also mentions how the Tx legislature last week passed legislation preventing such seisures in the future....of course with tons of loop holes, one of which will allow the city of Arlington to continue confiscating houses for the new Cowboy football stadium!!!!
I am so frustrated by all this but, don't have a clue what to do about it. Oh, I've got some ideas but, don't want to spend the rest of my days in a cell.
Okie Bob
QuoteThis mornings Dallas Morning News has an article on the front page concerning a tv show to air sometime next week on a completed confication in Hurst, TX of some 150 homes for an extension of a shopping mall. This took place 5 or 6 years ago and the mall is now complete and the city is reaping huge income from sales taxes collected from the site. The article talks about how the city had actually reduced property taxes (very slightly) and provided more new services...spening more of our tax dollars....but, says virtually nothing about the poor homeowners displaced 'for the good of the city'.
It also mentions how the Tx legislature last week passed legislation preventing such seisures in the future....of course with tons of loop holes, one of which will allow the city of Arlington to continue confiscating houses for the new Cowboy football stadium!!!!
I am so frustrated by all this but, don't have a clue what to do about it. Oh, I've got some ideas but, don't want to spend the rest of my days in a cell.
Okie Bob
Okie Bob, I was there.
Thanks for letting us know. I will watch that program for sure!
This is one of my previous posts in this thread about Hurst.
_______________________________________
A few years ago when I lived in Hurst, Texas.
The city decided to upgrade and expand the 20-year-old NorthEast Mall complex.
They zoned something like 30 acres of nearby residential area as commercial.
People that lived in the area for 30 years were forced to move.
I think it was the first time in Texas the imminent domain law was used for a commercial purpose.
http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws79.htm
They are doing the same thing right now in Arlington Texas to make room for the new Cowboys football Stadium.
In Hurst Texas, It was a very strange view after they dozed all of the houses and trees. The only thing remaining for a while was the road, driveways, and some of the foundations. It looked like something from a nuclear war. People chained themselves to toilets in their houses, trees in their yards, only to be removed by law officials. I stood next to one middle aged couple as they watched their home of 30 years reduced to rubble. They only started crying when the bull dozer pushed over a tree they planted the day they got married and moved in.
Also, just North of that area on the other side of Loop 820.
One person held out and won his right to keep his land and house.
The city allowed a new shopping center to be built around his property. 15 large stores were within 300 feet of his house. His property was totally surrounded by parking for the mini-mall.
It was a very sad situation for him the constant noise and lights made him sell about 5 years later.
It was bull dozed down and 60 extra parking spots where added... Progress at its finest.
Jimmy, you remember correctly. If you hear when the show will be on tv, please let me know as I'd love to watch it too. Can't wait to hear the spin they are putting on how good the confiscation was for the city!!! Probably not a thing about how hard it was for the poor home owners that were displaced! I wonder how those people are doing now. The whole thing makes me furious and the Cowboy deal is no better.
So, where are you building now? My place is on Cedar Creek Lake.
Okie Bob
I will try to find out about that show Bob.
Cedar Creek lake Huh? Very Nice area!
I am building a little at a time every other weekend or so about 20 miles East of Quitman, Texas in Raintree Lake Estates. It was a some sort of Campground in the early 70s until the oil business went under. At one time many years ago there was a Yogi the bear statue at the entrance.
My mother in law snapped up about 10 one-acre lots a few years back at 500.00 each. She sold my wife and I one for 1000.00.
In our little town ,the scumbags buy 100 +year old houses in this historical district and level them before oppositon can block it ,just down the street there was a nice victorian house when I went to kentucky 11 days ago, now theres dirt and angry letters to the editors of the local rag.These are the type that would love to grab property FOR THE COMMUNITY GOOD and there on pockets.You can bet this has there mouths watering.what they destroy can't be replaced.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/09/325009.shtml
How wonderful that the eminent domain law was made before N.O. flooded. Now they can get it cheap and get resisters out of the way. :-/
I think that some of the southern states have already passed laws to prevent eminent domain seizures except for gov't projects (splitting neighborhoods for an interstatate, for instance ::) )
Don't know if Louisiana was one of them. But the big problem may be land speculators.
Here's a breakdown of residential property by owner-occupied, price, etc. from the LA Times. (dumb question--how could you have 46% owner-occupied if none of the price categories are over 27%? Something is screwed up.)
LA times published this first, but they do require registration, so the link to the republished story is here:
http://www.guerrillanews.com/headlines/4917/Speculators_Rush_to_New_Orleans_Blacks_Fear_Gentrification
Rent versus own in the city of New Orleans
Renter-occupied 53.2%
Owner-occupied 46.8%
*
Vacant versus occupied in the city of New Orleans
Occupied 84.8%
Vacant 15.2%
*
Percentage of owner-occupied homes in each price range in the city in 2004
Under $50,000: 5.6%
$50,000-$99,999: 27.0%
$100,000-$149,999: 24.2%
$150,000-$199,999: 18.4%
$200,000-$299,999: 14.4%
$300,000-$499,999: 6.5%
$500,000 and over: 3.9%
Drudge report linked to this this afternoon:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051006-120902-5838r.htm
QuoteThe District will begin using eminent domain to acquire parcels of land at the site of the Washington Nationals' ballpark by the end of this month, after unsuccessful negotiations with nearly half of the landowners.
City officials said they expect to file court documents to take over at least some of the 21-acre site in the coming weeks and have $97 million set aside to buy the properties and help landowners relocate.
The city made offers to all 23 landowners on the site last month but received no response from 10.
"We think there are some that we'll have good-faith negotiations with," said Steve Green, director of development in the office of the Deputy Mayor for Planning and Economic Development. "There are some we haven't heard from at all."
Many property owners on the site said the city's offers are inadequate. Others are suing the city on the grounds that it has no right to use eminent domain to acquire land at the site, despite a Supreme Court ruling affirming the right of municipal governments to take private property for the purpose of economic development.
In April, the city notified property owners on the site that they would be required to move out by Dec. 31.
City officials said the District is on target to have title on all of the land by that date, but they don't expect to have full possession of the site until early next year, with construction on the $535 million stadium to begin in March. That would give the construction team, led by Clark Construction Group of Bethesda, about two years to build the ballpark in time for Opening Day of 2008.
Officials said that timetable remains realistic. Clark built the 80,000-seat FedEx Field, home of the Washington Redskins, in less time.
Oregon property rights law action.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002562231_measure3715m.html
The people that live and work in America today are living a lie...Our grandfathers fought in WWII for the ideal of freedom...Because they believed they were making the world a better place.
My Grandfather told me before he died when he could not get a building permit to build a workshop....That this was not the freedom he spent 5 years overseas fighting for.
He told me that if people in 1939 knew what rights or lack of them people would have never volunteered so readily to fight in the war
Property taxes...Zoning laws...You have to get permission to build on your own land...And you have no right to keep your land...They can just take it away from you.
What part of freedom fits into that.
We all tell ourselves that in Venezuela or Iraq that The American way is better and when we go in and blow up one of these countries...We say it is for the best because it will be rebuilt in the American Mold.
Are we so sure that this is heaven on earth?
-Peter
I don't believe the "Take care of me generation" even has a clue as to the amount of rights we have lost in the last 5 years with more in the works to be taken away each day, Peter.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9048
My great and great-great grandparents didn't come here because they agreed with what is happening here today, in fact they fled from nearly the same situation as allowed by the rights losses mentioned in the above article.
A lady who fled Nazi Germany because she was non-aryan told me she gets chills each time she hears the words Fatherland Homeland Security.
Now the Pentagon is using trickery to get people to re-enlist offering $15000 tax free bonuses, then after the signing, saying -- oh-- by the way -- April Fool.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/247264_guardx05.html
Quote from above article:
According to a state Guard spokesman, Maj. Phil Osterli, at least 15 Washington National Guardsmen and women signed re-enlistment forms promising them a tax-free $15,000 bonus in return. Many of them were stationed in Iraq at the time, he said.
But Pentagon officials have said in published reports that the bonuses were canceled because they duplicated other programs and were prohibited.
What a reward for offering your life to fight a war based on lies -- oh-- wait a minute---- I get it now --to be continued------------unless somehow someone figures out a way to stop it.
Losing your home -losing your money - losing your life. All part of a continuing pattern of corruption.
I think y'all just don't watch enough Fox News.
::)
(of course I can't watch TV at all here--not through-the air, not cable, not satellite)
You are so lucky, Amanda. You must be living right. No TV. ;D
I have it but refuse to watch it. I'd rather get my news from the conspiracy channels on the net. Note I did not add the word "theory" to the word "Conspiracy". ;D Even the sitcoms and general entertainment are geared toward propaganda and dumbing down.
I don't need anymore dumbing down. Take that any way it suits you. :)
Glenn,
The funny thing about loss of rights is that if you decide you do not want to play by these militaristic rules and surrender all of your rights and freedoms...
Soon enough they will come and round you up...So that you will no longer influence anyone else into standing up for themselves.
My wife and I want to buy land in Tennessee...It is cheaper than the mountains of NC and there is still a lot of remote places in the high mountains that are not Zoned.
I buy and sell classic cars as a hobby...And I bought a car from a guy in the middle of nowhere on top of the mountains in Western North Carolina...No Zoning there.
Wouldn't you know the government has stated their intent to start surveying and making records...The people there are pretty upset about it.
I want to get a piece of land pretty quick in a place with no Zoning laws...that way I can build what i want and not have to answer to the building inspector.
Here in Upstate South Carolina it is ridiculous what they make you do to put up a "Baby Barn"
Back to freedoms...When the Homeland Security folloishness was getting started and the Patriot Act was passed ...A lot of 80 year old people were getting brought in for interrogation.... We all complain about the government...And 80 year old people are extra cranky....So when a 80 year old would say to hell with Bush....the next thing you know he was in a 8 x 10 cell
Some freedom we have here....
What about the beutiful thing they came up with....That they no longer need a warrant to search your property or to conduct surveillance on you...
Democracy at it's finest there I tell you
Trust me Glenn I know of the freedoms that have been lost...
I bought a 100 year old house a few Years back in Canada and tried to have it moved onto a piece of land I bought.
I got moving permits for over sized loads...We were going to cut the house it was a colonial Salt box...28 x 44 full basement... 2 and 1/2 stories...Hardwood floors, marble counter tops...crystal chandeliers...Real wood doors in every room...Cast iron radiators in every room...It was all real wood...Groove and tongue boards the whole thing.... Gorgeous...
Got the house for $10,000 and it was going to cost $30,000 to get the foundation poured.. house moved and put back together with all new insulation and upgraded wiring...
But they would not let me do it...
They wanted $6,000 in building permits... I refused because I said the building permit was already paid for 100 years ago
They eventually revoked my moving permits for the house and I had to resell it to someone else.
I spent 12 hours a day for a month trying to make it work...I called counsellors at home knocked on doors and even got the county to have a special meeting...Just to shut me up....
In the end I was not allowed.
Some freedom I had....
So yeah I have known for a long time that we are allowed to do what they tell us....
First they try to get you onto the payment for life debt plan (starting in university)
Then they do away with Cash...Bring about debit cards and credit cards... ATM machines... so they can figure out how people spend money and restructure the economy accordingly to generate more tax dollars
In Canada they did away with the Thousand Dollar Bill.... I know it is one small thing....But in my lifetime (30 years) it has been non stop one small thing after another..... Continuous!
I used to lean to the right in politics...Like to think I still do...But Bush and his cronies are so fanatical that 90% of the right are portrayed as liberal sympathizers...
Thank god that he only has 3 years left...And he has made such a mess of everything he has touched that This country cannot and will not stand for another fanatical right wing lunatic.
Maybe with a new leader we can push for abolishment of things like the Patriot act...And push for more individual rights and freedoms...
And if we are dreaming...we can get the eminent domain abolished while we are at it...
Is it too much to ask for building inspector abolishment too?
-Peter
I know exactly what you are talking about, Peter and am not under any illusion that they can't find me if they want me. I don't think I'm a big enough fish for them yet but even if I am, I feel I should voice my objections and try to get others to quit hiding in fear, open their eyes and really become aware of what's going on.
When headlines like the one below come out I would like people to think of what it really means. Yes, the men in black may soon be coming to a home near you. I knew common city policemen in a small town who carried a spare gun in the trunk in case they made a boo-boo and had to plant it. What can happen when men are given power that makes them above questioning, and you have no right to representation. They still put their pants on one leg at a time the last time I checked -even "W" does, but the old saying holds true, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton- British Historian
FBI mines records of ordinary Americans
Under Patriot Act, feds probe lives of residents not alleged to be terrorists
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9939709
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501366.html?nav=hcmodule
It seems that this should be posted under the Parallels In Time thread, as it is a very close parallel.
Quoting from Wikipedia,
The role of the Gestapo was to investigate and combat "all tendencies dangerous to the State." It had the authority to investigate treason, espionage and sabotage cases, and cases of criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and on Germany.
The law had been changed in such a way that the Gestapo's actions were not subject to judicial review. Nazi jurist Dr. Werner Best stated, "As long as the [Gestapo] ... carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally." The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws.
The power of the Gestapo most open to misuse was "Schutzhaft" or "protective custody" — a euphemism for the power to imprison people without judicial proceedings, typically in concentration camps. The person imprisoned even had to sign his or her own Schutzhaftbefehl, the document declaring that the person desired to be imprisoned. Normally this signature was forced by beatings and torture.
More fine reading here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo
As far as building inspectors go, I know some good ones, and don't have a problem with them protecting the paying public - the ones who won't or can't DIY, from unscrupulous contractors, but I think an owner builder has the right to build his castle or ghetto and provide shelter for his family in whatever manner his resources will allow as long as it doesn't put the public at risk.
I don't take sides with politics - I don't like any of them and feel that we lose no matter who is there. Figureheads don't dictate policy. They only forward agendas and if they get too far out of line, they are eliminated or removed.
An air lines security insider remarked to me after 9/11 that he couldn't believe the powers that be would go that far (killing thousands of innocents) to forward their agenda. He wasn't talking about the "Arab Hijackers".
That's another part of why they feel they can simply take your land if they want it. The lives of the common people mean nothing to them. You are your social security number.
......but a slight glimmer of hope --some are showing a semblance of having at least a bit of decency--- will it go anywhere ???
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/11/03/national/w154446S12.DTL
Oregon Governmental Thieves Trying to Steal Property Without Compensation
http://www.newswithviews.com/Taft/john24.htm
Amazing what is being done to Joe Sixpack...And For the most part..Joe Sixpack just accepts it and moves on...Unaware that every single one of his fundamental rights and freedoms are being stripped from him...
It is sickening to see leaders like Bush push the flag...As he did when justifying the war in Iraq...Talking about the fundamental right of freedom for the Iraqi People...and people in America are being raped of their fundamental rights and freedoms...
God bless America indeed...Just once I would like someone like bush to speak of freedom and have a point or not be a hippocrit.
-Peter Ross
I don't like any of them left -right -upside down or rightside up--
They are constantly trying to find ways to relieve you of your property. Around here, word travels fast so many of the people hit the appropriate town meetings and help to stop some of this illegal outrageous action.
Usually less is more...
Less government or government involvement equals less taxes and more individual freedoms.
as a rule I find...
If there was only a way to engage a star trek like cloacking shield over our land so we could build what we want and not have to worry about people trying to stop us or fretting that they have missed out on a chance to tax us yet again
-Peter
"Less seems to be more" Seems to be about the only guide line on picking any kind of official. Promise me you will make government cuts, period. No more looking out for anyone please. Give the ------- a buck and expect two worth of problems. Don't buy into a good plan. $ is best kept and used by the individual who earned it. Create a product or provide a service. No redistribution please. Please put the book " Little Red Hen " on the book list.
In a search I was doing today I came across this article that is the best explanation of how we got where we are, with the ability to have our property taken by state, that I have seen.
Note that I have not read all of it as it is very lengthy. Things are explained using easy to understand examples.
Have a read and see if some lights don't come on.;D
Rothbard Article http://www.mises.org/easaran/chap3.asp
Glenn
you bringing up the point that when you apply for permits they make you sign waivers forcing you to give up all your legal rights...
I have as of yet in my life to file for income tax...There is a law in Canada called Magna Carta...that comes from british common law that still applies in Canada. (though they are trying to close the loophole)
Anyways the first time you file for income tax in Canada you actually volunteer yourself into the system...many people in Canada call me retarded and insane...But Revenue canada has never so much as called me in the 16 years I have made enough to file for income tax... Gee I wonder why
I am not violating my rights as a citizen...your no trespassing sign is perfect in my humble opinion...
If only such a thing were appliciable in Canada!
-Peter
I haven't come across anything that applies to Canada, but will watch for it.
Even though there are laws to protect our rights we have to know them to have the benefit of their protection. It isn't automatic.
The above article by Rothbard is generic and applies to all types of states or countries.
Glenn
I know what you are talking about when you talk about the IRS being ruthless
In Canada..Revenue Canada (IRS equivalent) will smash down your door, and seize your property all without a warrant if they feel at any time you are trying to do anything that would lessen their ability to collect taxes from you
There is a loophole in the wordhole in Common law in Canada adapted from the Magna Carta...And when people try to denounce paying taxes revenue Canada will try to force them to comply...Threaten jail and property seizure etc...Expect to be hauled into court.
Luckily In North America we have a very powerful tool called the law of Precedent...So when someone is successful in proving that they do not have to pay taxes...It becomes easier for another...They can use the success of previous people as evidence their claims have merit.
That is the path that is being used by many in Canada and I suspect that in America as well people that decide to take on hamburger hill use the success of others as legal evidence for their claims.
The constitution and declaration of independance are remarkable documents...Sad that people do not read them study them and know them to understand the kind of freedoms that they are supposed to have!
Okay I am getting down off the soapbox
-Peter
Considering the discussion I thought you all may be interested in this.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1118-23.htm
jonesy ;)
Thanks for the link to that story Jonesy. I'm sure it won't be allowed to benefit individuals -- but wait a minute -- corporations are viewed as individuals. Can't live with 'em - can't live without 'em -----he says as he types on his HP computer made in China and supported in India.
Maybe that's the plan - take our home and land then outsource us.
Update on corrupt Supreme Court Justice possibly losing his home for Lost Liberty Hotel.
Crooked Judge's House Goes Up For Vote (http://www.rense.com/general69/souter.htm)
If they win I hope that the "lost liberty hotel" does include the original 200-year-old farmhouse.
I hope the name the bathroom the "Souter Room."
I would be happy to use it first if they do. Souter room - even the name gives me giant stomach cramps. I promise - I will really overeat before I go there. :):-/ I will reserve a room there and pay for a night's stay -even if I can't go to use it. It's just the principal of the thing. :)
No comment... :-/ :o :-? ;D