Diy building a house? realistic?

Started by 1201, June 27, 2019, 12:50:29 PM

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1201

Hi, I have plans for a very simple (but largish house) only 4 corners and a simple roof.

In my area labor can be 75% of the cost. there is no rush to get in as we have a place where we are living now.

I was thinking:

have a professional do the underslab plumbing, and the slab foundation,

then I could do the framing myself with some hired labor
and install roof trusses
have a professional install the roof

do the above slab plumbing, electrical rough in, siding, insulation and windows myself over the course of say one year.

For inside walls and ceiling, I was thinking of a system like they use on mobile homes- I think its called vinyl over gypsum panels, that way I dont even have to worry about mudding or taping etc.

my biggest concern is theft. We live thirty minutes from the site and would only be working on the weekends. the lot is in a well developed area and not rural.

also, does anyone know of the panels Im talking about and where to source them?
any ideas ? do you think this is feasible?

thanks all

NathanS

Yes it is very doable, the main issue is financing. A bank generally won't finance an owner builder, and they want occupancy in something like 90 days.

I would just say your motivation should be more than saving money, though that is a big bonus. I have done every trade, and the only one where I thought the 2x (or more) cost multiplier wasn't justifiable was for HVAC.

For the panels you're talking about, I think the main consideration is fire rating. The seams may need to be taped for that. With a banjo an entire house could be taped in a few hours. Material availability can be a big issue, you really don't want to be special ordering anything. Lots of members here reduced the amount of drywall by doing wood paneling in areas.

For theft, you need a secure onsite storage container or lockable shed. Luckily, most building materials are too much work for thieves to haul, at least in my experience.

Feel free to keep asking questions.


1201

Quote from: NathanS on June 28, 2019, 07:04:27 AM
Yes it is very doable, the main issue is financing. A bank generally won't finance an owner builder, and they want occupancy in something like 90 days.

I would just say your motivation should be more than saving money, though that is a big bonus. I have done every trade, and the only one where I thought the 2x (or more) cost multiplier wasn't justifiable was for HVAC.

For the panels you're talking about, I think the main consideration is fire rating. The seams may need to be taped for that. With a banjo an entire house could be taped in a few hours. Material availability can be a big issue, you really don't want to be special ordering anything. Lots of members here reduced the amount of drywall by doing wood paneling in areas.

For theft, you need a secure onsite storage container or lockable shed. Luckily, most building materials are too much work for thieves to haul, at least in my experience.

Feel free to keep asking questions.

Thanks for the information NathanS !!

We are lucky that we shouldnt have to finance and that removes that (big) headache.

oh, I agree on the special order stuff. Definitely dont want to do that. 

So you think even with a super simple build it is still worth it to farm out the work?

thanks

MountainDon

QuoteSo you think even with a super simple build it is still worth it to farm out the work?

Depends... Installing a more or less standard HVAC means a lot of ductwork. Some people don't feel comfy with that, or with installing gas piping. Others don't like the thought of designing and installing the plumbing, especially the waste and vent lines. I don't like the idea of working on a roof that is steeper than 4:12, so I hired someone to do the metal panel installation.

As for HVAC I would give serious thought to a ductless mini-split if I had to build a new home.

Whether or not to pursue interior wall panels is a personal matter. Myself, I think they can detract from the appearance or make a place look cheap. So, again, perhaps a drywall contractor could be used. Ask around. We approached a drywall crew working on a housing project and asked if they would be interested in finishing walls after we installed the drywall panels. We worked out a deal with them that was good for us all. I like drywall for many things as it allows a wide color choice with paints and can be changed. Here and there T&G wood can be used as accent walls. Ditto stone and brick. If you know some wall sections will be covered (wood, stone...) those don't need anymore than a rough taping.

On site building security is another matter. That can be a problem.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

ChugiakTinkerer

If you've got any sort of a DIY mindset there's nothing that you couldn't do in building a house.  There are however quite a few tasks that a pro will do much faster and perhaps with better quality.  And there are a few tasks that the county may require be done by a licensed pro, such as connecting utility services.  If you've got the time and inclination you can save a huge amount of money, plus you have the knowledge of exactly how things are done on your house.

I would hire out foundation work and the finish mudding.  Pretty much anything else can be done by someone with patience and determination.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story


Adam Roby

I would add that many areas demand a job be done within some timeline, so permits are good for only a certain number of months before needing renewal or before the work needs to be completed.  I would also add that any time estimates you give yourself are often way less that it actually takes to do the work.  You may go one day with the intent to do so much work and only get the setup done before night hits or the weekend is over.  Make sure you allow enough time in your schedule for delays, and underestimating jobs.

1201

Quote from: Adam Roby on June 28, 2019, 06:08:22 PM
I would add that many areas demand a job be done within some timeline, so permits are good for only a certain number of months before needing renewal or before the work needs to be completed.  I would also add that any time estimates you give yourself are often way less that it actually takes to do the work.  You may go one day with the intent to do so much work and only get the setup done before night hits or the weekend is over.  Make sure you allow enough time in your schedule for delays, and underestimating jobs.

thats really good information Adam. I believe the permit is good for 6 months and then has to be renewed.

I do know that projects can take way longer than expected, especially when the excitement wears off and the tiredness sets in.

thanks again

1201

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on June 28, 2019, 03:27:10 PM
If you've got any sort of a DIY mindset there's nothing that you couldn't do in building a house.  There are however quite a few tasks that a pro will do much faster and perhaps with better quality.  And there are a few tasks that the county may require be done by a licensed pro, such as connecting utility services.  If you've got the time and inclination you can save a huge amount of money, plus you have the knowledge of exactly how things are done on your house.

I would hire out foundation work and the finish mudding.  Pretty much anything else can be done by someone with patience and determination.

thanks for the words of motivation. I definitely will have the foundation farmed out to real pros, without a doubt. and drywall and mudding if I do go that route.
thanks

1201

Quote from: MountainDon on June 28, 2019, 01:47:26 PM
Depends... Installing a more or less standard HVAC means a lot of ductwork. Some people don't feel comfy with that, or with installing gas piping. Others don't like the thought of designing and installing the plumbing, especially the waste and vent lines. I don't like the idea of working on a roof that is steeper than 4:12, so I hired someone to do the metal panel installation.

As for HVAC I would give serious thought to a ductless mini-split if I had to build a new home.

I hear you on this one. mini split is the only option for me. Here is a link to the plan. its 80x32 and Ive color coded the zones.


total load is 24k heating and cooling , per BeOpt

master bedroom in YELLOW zone. wont need more than a 6k btu 31 seer minisplit
main living area in PINK should be ok with a mini split as well. Maybe I'll oversize this unit a little bit due to the large amount of window area.
the BLUE zone is one Im struggling with - there are three bedrooms, mechanical room, bathroom and laundry room in this zone. my thinking is that since they all feed from a central hallway, I can put a DUCTED unit here. I like exposed ducts so I would be ok doing an exposed duct ducted system. I just havent seen an exposed duct minisplit unit .
GREEN zone is the red headed step-child. it is too small to have its own unit but doesnt fit nicely into any of the other zones.

The other area of concern with mini splits is should I go with one large outside unit, or 3 to 4 small ones? one large outside unit would definitely look cleaner i think, but would it even work given the length of the house? so much to learn






QuoteWhether or not to pursue interior wall panels is a personal matter. Myself, I think they can detract from the appearance or make a place look cheap. So, again, perhaps a drywall contractor could be used. Ask around. We approached a drywall crew working on a housing project and asked if they would be interested in finishing walls after we installed the drywall panels. We worked out a deal with them that was good for us all. I like drywall for many things as it allows a wide color choice with paints and can be changed. Here and there T&G wood can be used as accent walls. Ditto stone and brick. If you know some wall sections will be covered (wood, stone...) those don't need anymore than a rough taping.

On site building security is another matter. That can be a problem.

you make good points. using wood covering(plywood) does it have to go over a fire rated wall like drywall or can I attach the plywood straight to the studs and call it good?



MushCreek

I built my own house, mostly single-handed. I hired out excavation, concrete, drywall, and attic insulation. I did it to save money, but mostly because it was the top item on my 'bucket list'. Here, permits have to be renewed every 6 months, but as long as you show 'progress', there's no limit on completing the project, and no cost to extend the permit. Bear in mind that some HOA rules have completion limits. We're not in an HOA. Every area will have different rules. Here (SC), you can do all of your own work, but you must live in the completed house a minimum of two years after completion before you could sell it. Another issue I had was insurance during construction. Our insurer would only cover one year under construction, but they decided to continue coverage.

Be honest with yourself about how long it will take. Working alone, I spent three years building our house and barn, working full time. I could have saved a lot of time with a helper. It's hard to tell how much time I really spent, as I had to get our old house ready to sell, and I had major delays waiting on subcontractors. Hint- They'd rather work for a builder than your one-off job. Depending on where you live, weather will be a major factor. During your build, there will be new records set for hot, cold, rain, snow, wind, and plagues of locusts.

My only wish is that I had tackled this when I was younger. I left an office job at age 60 to suddenly start doing strenuous physical labor, all day, six days a week. On the plus side, I lost 40 lbs. On the down side, I felt like I'd been hit by a truck when I got out of bed in the morning. It's still an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. I've never worked in the building trades, so I got to learn a lot. I know every inch of my house. I know that everything was done right, and far in excess of 'code minimum'. Our house is strong, tight, and extremely energy efficient. Best of all- Its paid for!
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

1201

Quote from: MushCreek on June 30, 2019, 05:06:26 AM
I built my own house, mostly single-handed. I hired out excavation, concrete, drywall, and attic insulation. I did it to save money, but mostly because it was the top item on my 'bucket list'. Here, permits have to be renewed every 6 months, but as long as you show 'progress', there's no limit on completing the project, and no cost to extend the permit. Bear in mind that some HOA rules have completion limits. We're not in an HOA. Every area will have different rules. Here (SC), you can do all of your own work, but you must live in the completed house a minimum of two years after completion before you could sell it. Another issue I had was insurance during construction. Our insurer would only cover one year under construction, but they decided to continue coverage.

Be honest with yourself about how long it will take. Working alone, I spent three years building our house and barn, working full time. I could have saved a lot of time with a helper. It's hard to tell how much time I really spent, as I had to get our old house ready to sell, and I had major delays waiting on subcontractors. Hint- They'd rather work for a builder than your one-off job. Depending on where you live, weather will be a major factor. During your build, there will be new records set for hot, cold, rain, snow, wind, and plagues of locusts.

My only wish is that I had tackled this when I was younger. I left an office job at age 60 to suddenly start doing strenuous physical labor, all day, six days a week. On the plus side, I lost 40 lbs. On the down side, I felt like I'd been hit by a truck when I got out of bed in the morning. It's still an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. I've never worked in the building trades, so I got to learn a lot. I know every inch of my house. I know that everything was done right, and far in excess of 'code minimum'. Our house is strong, tight, and extremely energy efficient. Best of all- Its paid for!

wow. thanks for sharing that. So inspirational. I love the pride of saying you did it, and saving money in the process.

thanks.

Don_P

That is a large house. Do you have a history of being able to stay in the harness and physically plowing for very long periods of time? Many people overestimate their ability to take on this kind of project and stay focused. This will be your vacations, weekends and holidays until dried in. So hard to say, be honest with yourself as to your abilities. Stay clear of the vinyl covered floor and wall finishes, that is what caused the toxic mold problem in the post Katrina trailers. If the wall cannot dry, really to both sides, it is going to give you trouble in the long haul.

1201

Quote from: Don_P on July 04, 2019, 03:38:21 PM
That is a large house. Do you have a history of being able to stay in the harness and physically plowing for very long periods of time? Many people overestimate their ability to take on this kind of project and stay focused. This will be your vacations, weekends and holidays until dried in. So hard to say, be honest with yourself as to your abilities. Stay clear of the vinyl covered floor and wall finishes, that is what caused the toxic mold problem in the post Katrina trailers. If the wall cannot dry, really to both sides, it is going to give you trouble in the long haul.

you are right. I keep vascillating between having it framed professionally vs diy.

professionally framed and roofed, it can be dried-in quickly and I can set about on doing the inside. this would cost about $16k labor for the house framing and labor for the metal roof roof.

or, I can do it myself and save 16k which is basically a new to me used car.

its a very hard decision.

Dave Sparks

I designed and had a builder/myself do a shell in 3 months. It took me and my wife a year to get the inside done for a certificate of occupancy and another year to get it homey for a 1800 square foot.  I agree with Don to be realistic.
"we go where the power lines don't"


retiredmarine

1201,  I was in your shoes a few months ago.  I've remodeled but never built from scratch.  This forum and the members have been a GREAT source of ideas and answers to my many questions.  I just finished week 13 on my house build and its coming along nicly (when it doesn't rain). Don't be afraid to try, you can always hire pros for areas your not comfortable with and then learn from them.

Quote from: retiredmarine on July 07, 2019, 06:25:20 AM
Week 13 - Trusses and wall sheathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnRJj_M4DEY

1201

Quote from: Dave Sparks on July 06, 2019, 09:25:56 AM
I designed and had a builder/myself do a shell in 3 months. It took me and my wife a year to get the inside done for a certificate of occupancy and another year to get it homey for a 1800 square foot.  I agree with Don to be realistic.

Hi Dave congrats on building you house yourself. I don't think there can be any greater sense of achievement than building your own house. What would you do different if you had to do it over?

1201

Quote from: retiredmarine on July 07, 2019, 07:50:18 AM
1201,  I was in your shoes a few months ago.  I've remodeled but never built from scratch.  This forum and the members have been a GREAT source of ideas and answers to my many questions.  I just finished week 13 on my house build and its coming along nicly (when it doesn't rain). Don't be afraid to try, you can always hire pros for areas your not comfortable with and then learn from them.


Sweet! I will be subscribing to your channel and watching every episode.

Thanks for posting.

Did you do the foundation yourself?

1201

Question for all.

Firstly-thank you for the amazing participation. I appreciate each and every one of you.

To my question. The plan is to hire out the slab foundation and under slab plumbing.

But, what if I were to do a stem wall  foundation out of concrete blocks? I could take my time and do one layer at a time and it would also simplicity the plumbing and electrical.

I could rent an excavator to dig the footings(footers?) Or even have that hired out.thoughts please

NathanS

Laying block is definitely doable and I find it very enjoyable, that's what I did for my house. I hired out the excavation, which was probably a good choice for my first build. Going forward I would just buy a mini excavator or tractor with backhoe and loader now that I have a lot of building knowledge. Cost wise, it would pay for itself.

I backfilled the inside of my foundation with stone and then poured a slab on that. We live in a pretty wet area, so I don't really regret that. Doing a crawlspace would take some of the pressure off plumbing decisions, but everything came out fine in our case.

I will say that if you have a full time job you will probably want to hire some of this stuff out, or at least leave the door open to it. Even going full time when you are doing it alone you will not really have any weekends off for a few years.

I would not be surprised if I spent something like 2-3x as much time researching how to build and design things as actually building them. So if I was framing the house from 8am-4pm, I'd be researching how to install my metal roof from 5-11.

1201

Quote from: NathanS on July 09, 2019, 10:38:01 AM
Laying block is definitely doable and I find it very enjoyable, that's what I did for my house. I hired out the excavation, which was probably a good choice for my first build. Going forward I would just buy a mini excavator or tractor with backhoe and loader now that I have a lot of building knowledge. Cost wise, it would pay for itself.

I backfilled the inside of my foundation with stone and then poured a slab on that. We live in a pretty wet area, so I don't really regret that. Doing a crawlspace would take some of the pressure off plumbing decisions, but everything came out fine in our case.

I will say that if you have a full time job you will probably want to hire some of this stuff out, or at least leave the door open to it. Even going full time when you are doing it alone you will not really have any weekends off for a few years.

I would not be surprised if I spent something like 2-3x as much time researching how to build and design things as actually building them. So if I was framing the house from 8am-4pm, I'd be researching how to install my metal roof from 5-11.


thanks for that information. that is great to know.

as far as time in research vs time working,

architect hassan fathy said it best, in his book "architeture for the poor": paraphrased " If I have 3000 hours to build a house I will spend 2900 hours in planning and design"


:)


retiredmarine

Quote from: 1201 on July 09, 2019, 09:43:07 AM

Sweet! I will be subscribing to your channel and watching every episode.

Thanks for posting.

Did you do the foundation yourself?

I didn't.  The original plan had the house on piers that I was going to dig and pour myself. DonP talked me out of that with his great argument for a full foundation. The cost was well worth it, I started on a solid, square foundation!


MushCreek

There's a lot to be said for using a pro to get a solid, level base for your house. In my case, I built using ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms) and one of the keys to success is to have a very, very good footing. My concrete guy builds ICF, so he knows what he's doing, and got me started with an excellent footing. The house came out very level, plumb, and square without my having to compensate.
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

JRR

About planning.  Always important.  But if one isn't careful, "planning" can be a mere half-step away from "dreaming"; and slows up the actual construction.  I believe everyone will agree that the most learning comes from the actual hands-on, "doing/construction" stage.  There used to be a popular phrase, "analysis paralysis"!

I find it helpful to build a to-scale model early in the planning phase.  Doesn't have to be overly detailed, ...especially at the beginning.  I find that actually assembling a model, even if of paper and cardboard, brings the hands into the problem solving.  Beats any illustration app you will ever find.  And if you are working with a group (think "church building committee" or "city planning council" ...) an accurate model can be very engaging for eyes and minds and can help achieve focus.  A model can be very helpful when discussing plans with sub-contractors or city folks.

Dave Sparks

There is not much I would do differently on my house. I needed it shelled in in 3 months as I had accepted a job in the area.

The one thing I could have screwed up was having the roof dump snow on openings like doors and garages. I never thought about it but somehow it was right.

The other thing I wish I did was angle the house 20 degrees more to the north to minimize the summer sun coming in our large view windows.
"we go where the power lines don't"