We are buying additional solar stuff from this guy -- seems like a pretty good deal. Panels themselves were about $4.60 per watt.
http://www.partsonsale.com/cabins2intermediate.html
We haven't rec'd the stuff yet but I'll update on the follow through as the deal goes along.
I'm posting this sales persons number as he directed me to a much better deal they had going.
877-498-6527 Jim extn. 208
Update - he did follow up with a call to let me know he is missing one piece -- will ship the rest and other part when it arrives.
Thanks for the link Glenn. I'll have to give him a call... I see most individual items don't show prices... at least not the few I looked at.
We're thinking of maybe installing the solar panels/pole and the cable from them to the building site while I'm waiting on the shoulder. Gotta do something!!
I think in general its a pretty good deal - includes the mppt controller - we upgraded to a larger controller and went with 4 panels. He said the panels themselves worked out to $4.60 per watt. He also upgraded us to circuit breakers for the 4 panels.
Maybe you can talk him into a better discount for Countryplans members.
$4.60 a watt is good.
I'm looking for somewheres around 500+ watts. ???
We just did that -- tell him you want what we got- it was in Kathy's name- 4x 135 watts and a 500 watt controller- he said it was ok with the 540 MPPT controller - he also includes some mounting hardware misc stuff in the kit. Probably higher here because I think they had to add state tax but it was $3100 + with everything.
Nothing but good to report on these people so far. The parts all arrived today with the exception of the one backordered item.
I did some comparison shopping today and found that Affordable Solar (//www.affordable-solar.com/) beat them on the package I selected as being closest to what I want. That was without any freight factors counted. Affordable Solar is closer to me (across the river and has much of what I want more than likely available there for pickup... so that's a factor I would count when it comes down to the nitty gritty.)
I did buy a 12 foot length of 4" steel schedule 40 pipe today. It's to install in the ground as the pole mount for my panels. I had to drive 105 miles round trip to get some used (ex-oil field) pipe but saved a bundle even counting the gasoline. The used pipe was $50. Local new pipe(could only find new) was $170. Gas $30. Savings $90. At 3 hours time that's $30 an hour. :D
...and a salt block for the elk and deer. Saved a dollar over local, but that was simply a bonus for the trip. (some things are cheaper in the country).
Sounds good, Don -- I didn't shop a lot as these guys were just one of the better ones I found fairly early and were nearby - in Oregon actually but had a office in Hesperia.
They're still better than some as far as prices go; and sounds like they deliver a they say they will. Many points for that. It helps when the vendor is closer to home as well.
Glenn,
Sounds like you got a good deal and delivered on time is a plus. [cool] Are you adding this to your existing set up or something new? We have 225W of those HF panels now for just under $1000. But they are not the same quality by a long shot.
Larry
We are adding this to our existing panels - to add power for Sassy's pool and a new electric refrigerator to replace the propane one.
I think solar panels are a good investment no matter what, Larry. You can just keep adding. If you get to using an MPPT controller then you want the panels to be the same that are on that controller as it matches it's draw to the maximum output of the panels. Dissimilar panels won't work together that way - or not well, so defeats the purpose.
I have a couple kyocera kc130 solar panels and I love em. Got 4 AGM batteries off someone on craigslist for $30 each, hold 88 AH each! Paid $620 each from wholesalesolar.com
Then went with a morningstar TI-45 charge controller. It can handle about 6 of the kc130's since the panels put out 7.5 amps each ( 45 amp max total ).
At the end, im running a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter, i use 4 guage wire between the batteries and shielded 12 guage extension cord triple-weather proof hornet wire to each panel
The Kyocera panels are my favorite. I just hooked them up today as the last week or two have been spent working on the pool and a couple jobs - new refrigerator last night so needed to get the power in place.
The stuff above worked out great - It took about 15 minutes to hook up the panels after the wire was on the roof and controller wired. The little controller he sent was a new MPPT controller for a great price - It just handles 500 watts - we went 540 fine. I checked some calcs today - About 44v open circuit - controller running the panels at about 30v and putting out 25.8 at the time I checked. The nice thing about higher voltage into the controller is you can use much smaller wire.
I'm sure you will enjoy the true sine wave inverter. None of the others compare in efficiency and making your tools and equipment happy.
Morningstar is great - I get e-mails from them al the time.
Interesting info. I wish I could have considered solar power for my house when it was under construction, but it's a bit more than I could afford from my initial investigations.
What is out there that could add to a AC system as back up that is in this kind of price range? My two appliances that run all the time are the refrigerator and electric water heater. Everything else is just occasional use like the tv and the washing machine and lights. No dryer.
My power bill is only $54.00 / mo. anyway, but who knows how much it will go up in my lifetime.
Just curious.
Christina
The stuff it would take to keep an a/c running for a house would likely be about $30.000 to $40,000. They are heavy power users. One way you could possibly benefit would be to put in about 2000 watts or so and grid tie it to get net metering - trade with the utility. You would still need a full system with batteries to have power when the grid was down.
The electric water heater - dryer - any heating units would all need to be changed to natural gas or propane also.
There is not much of a way to beat the utility companies cheaply. You pretty well need to plan it from the start to keep the cost as low as possible. If we get an a/c at all it will be a single room small one only.
Most off grid houses have fans or swamp coolers where they are effective.
I meant an alternating current (AC) not an airconditioner.
as opposed to direct current (dc).
I just haven't seen reasonably priced anything solar to power alternating current appliances.
Christina
Quote from: CWhite on July 09, 2008, 11:59:53 AM
What is out there that could add to a AC system as back up that is in this kind of price range?
Just curious.
Christina
Christina if you are looking for something as a back-up have you considered a back-up generator. It would tie into your existing panel box and nothing would have to done to the house wiring. I saw that Home Depot had a 7KW Generac, Propane fired, eight circuits, automatic disconnect box on sale for $1,600. Of course you would have to have a small propane tank to run it. They come on auto when the power goes out and turn themselves back off when the power is returned. I think you said you had a propane tank. Just run an extra line from it to the gen.
to convert solar power to a usable alternating current, you use an inverter connected to the battery bank. That provides 110 outlets fed from the 12 volt (or 6 or 24 or 48, etc) direct current battery. There is some power lost in the conversion process so a lot of case it is more efficient to purchase a DC appliance. That being the case, any solar system can provide AC service with the proper reserve (amp hours) in the batteries to handle the load.
However, from the sound of it you may also want to consider using more propane powered appliances. They have propane driven fridges and hot water heaters. If you look at the RV market the options open up even more.
I would consider changing appliances or even look at the generator option before investing 15k in a solar solution that will likely wear out before it pays for itself. At 54 a month, that's a likely scenario.
In the GA climate you would be a good candidate to turn most, if not all, your water heating requirements to solar. There are simple, inexpensive systems that would work in any area where freezing is relatively uncommon.
A grid tie solar system might also be feasible if the power company allows it. Combining the two might all but eliminate your power bill.
My personal opinion is that if you are on grid already, if it's been dependable, if the bill is as low as you state, stay on grid.
[Maybe buy a generator for emergency power when/if the grid power fails. However, unless you are home most of the time it'll have to have an autostart feature to kick in when/if the grid fails. If you're not there when the grid fails you may lose the contents of the fridge/freezer, the furnace fan won't run, so there's no heat, and so on.]
If you have cash sitting around burning a hole in your pocket, or simply are paranoid about grid failure, then a solar PV system large enough to supply all your power would be comforting, if not economically justified. If your power company offers net metering at least you can size the system to just be big enough to make the monthly bill zero or close to it. Your power company may offer a deal where they pay you a fair rate for excess; mine does, but many do not.
Solar costs $$ for the equipment. In most cases it's less $$ to be on the grid.
As far as appliances go; propane fridges, etc are fine except it's my opinion that over time the fossil fuels will increase more rapidly than the cost of electricity. That said, we're planning on a propane fridge as we will be generating our own Solar PV off grid power; using a propane fridge will cut the number of panels we need by a considerable number.
good info. Thanks for the responses.
I've had a back up generator fueled with gasoline for many years. Power goes out from storms sometimes, and we power the whole house with it, no problem.
I just like the idea of using solar instead for normal, everyday use. Unfortunately, it is still for rich folks. The initial inquiries back when I was looking into building it into the house was going to be a $20,000 to $25,000 increase in the cost of the house. THAT was not happening.
I will stick with what I've got.
Christina
That is pretty well right in there with what I have seen here - unscrupulous contractors can increase that cost.
I think the backup generator is a decent solution for you when all things are considered.
I think you have done a great job with your house, Christina.
Thanks Glen,
I can't tell you how invaluable this site was in accomplishing our goals. The house is so livable, and is really much more room than I imagined. I'm still really picky about what goes in there. My newest project is building in the box beds for guest accommodations upstairs. I will be carving details for them as well, so it's not going up in a weekend.
I'll post more pictures to the link so the progress is shown.
I do love my house.
Best part was the big porches, and maybe the high ceilings inside.
Christina
hi christina,
just saw your house pics for the first time. very nice! i hope to use some of your ideas if i ever get started on my place. i might opt for the solar and wind set up if i can and also i found that you can get land by a river rather cheap by comparison in MI's U.P... HYDRO POWER!!!
i forgot to ask you christina, what plans did you use?
Quote from: apaknad on July 10, 2008, 02:23:14 PM
... also i found that you can get land by a river rather cheap
Riverfront property sometimes has it's disadvantages. :o
Seasonal cabins are great by a stream but full time residences are taking a chance if they are in a flood plain or the potential for flooding. My uncle has a great piece of land which he has made a picnic shelter, boat dock for fishing and a great place for the summer. ButTTT it does flood 1-2 times a year and the complete bottom covers. I wouldn't even trust the statistics in regards to the labeling of 100 yr flood. In our nearest town we have had 3 hundred year floods in 20 years. Hey that suppose to be 300 years isn't it. Two of which were 1 year apart. When the Corp of Eng finds the money that was earmarked for floodwalls I guess it will happen. They have used it up on other projects which take precident I suppose.
Quote from: Redoverfarm on July 10, 2008, 07:17:12 PM
I wouldn't even trust the statistics in regards to the labeling of 100 yr flood. In our nearest town we have had 3 hundred year floods in 20 years. Hey that suppose to be 300 years isn't it. Two of which were 1 year apart.
Terms like 25 year "event", 100 year "event", 500 year "event" are really misnomers, and therefore misunderstood by most people, in my opinion.
The term 100 year flood actually means the chance of enough water/rainfall in a certain period of time, to cause flood, is 1 in 100, or 1%. Similarly the term 500 year event means a statistical chance of the "event" occurring is 1 in 500, or 0.2%. Therefore it is possible to have a series of 100 year floods in consecutive years, or even in the same year.
You can maybe get a better handle on this by thinking of a bag containing 99 regular Oreos and 1 Double Stuff Oreo. If you reach in and grab a cookie the odds are 1 in 100 that you will grab the Double Stuff Oreo. Each time you reach in the bag contains 99 regular and 1 Double Stuff so each time your odds are the same. It is just as possible get the Double Stuff Oreo frequently as it is to never get one.
If it's hard to grasp, don't feel bad. I flunked statistics the first time around. ;D
Quoteodds are 1 in 100 that you will grab the Double Stuff Oreo
Only until I grab the double stuffed Oreo. Your nuts if you think it's going back in the bag :)
Quote from: John C on July 10, 2008, 08:27:13 PM
Only until I grab the double stuffed Oreo. You're nuts if you think it's going back in the bag :)
rofl rofl
So I guess if you get the double stuff. lick off icing and put it back it will not flood.
I understand and I was making a point that it doesn't hold true to the norm and if someone was looking to buy riverfront property with that assumtion they would be all wet.
i am still in a dream stage right now but yes, flooding would be high on the list of things to watch out for.
I made one of my customers raise his pad 4 feet about 30 years ago beside a slough. I had seen it flood before.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/kingsslough.jpg)
Many times since I have gone by that building during slough floods and seen it sitting high and dry about 2 feet above flood level. I always felt pretty good about making him do something he didn't want to do, and I assume he is pretty happy about it too.
Hi apaknad,
I used John's 1 1/2 story plans. I changed them a lot, like everyone else does, but it's still in there.
My house is a full time residence big enough on the ground floor for my husband and I, with lots of room for the family (grown kids) to come visit.
It is a great home, and we get lots of comments from the customers who wander back there through our sculpture garden behind our gallery. Last week I finally put up a little sign saying "private" so people would not go wander around the back of my house where my clothes hang on a clothes line.
Good luck with yours. It is quite an adventure. Mine's not over yet, but close.
Christina