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General => Owner-Builder Projects => Topic started by: AAA-DAY on May 03, 2006, 02:23:20 PM

Title: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 03, 2006, 02:23:20 PM
Just wanted to share our success with the plan we obtained from this site!

In the spring of 2004, we bought the 20' 1-1/2 story cottage plan. We increased it to 20 x 34 and sat down with a pad of graph paper and made some modifications to the layout.

(http://i4.tinypic.com/106mtf7.jpg)

Found this nifty site on the Web!  VERY fun and FREE!!  YIPPEE!!!

In April, we began clearing our building spot in the middle of our 10 acres of woods in Michigan's thumb.

(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B38%3A53%7Ffp345%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D323369926388%3Anu0mrj)

We worked every weekend all summer and fall until we finally got it weather tight by October.

(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B38%3A53%7Ffp342%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D3233699267%3C54nu0mrj)

We have worked on this project almost every single weekend and every vacation for 2 years now, but we are very close to being done. Inside, we have some finish trim work to do and the staircase/railing to the loft to put in. Outside, we have to put the stone on the chimney and around the base of the cabin.

(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B38%3A53%7Ffp345%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D3233699263876nu0mrj)

The exterior was sided in Certainteed stained cement fiberboard and the chimney will be finished in the same cultured stone we used on the fireplace surround.

We used pre-finished tongue and groove pine on the walls of the main living areas. The kitchen has pine cupboards. We put in an old barn wood accent wall. We used drywall and pine on the ceiling in the bedroom and bathroom.

(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B38%3A53%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D323369926388%3Cnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B38%3A53%7Ffp343%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D3233699267%3C73nu0mrj)

We hope to add a porch with overhang on both sides of the house, maybe this summer.
To see more photos of our progress:

http://danamycabin.snapfish.com/comcast (you need to sign-up for free account but it is quick)

Hope you enjoy the pictures. I will post more as we progress!

Note from John 5/22/08:
We now have a Gallery Page up for this house. Click HERE (http://www.countryplans.com/amydan.html).
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Jimmy_Cason on May 03, 2006, 07:46:22 PM
I really like the way this looks!
Where did you get the pine?
Is that tongue and groove?
What was the cost per foot?
Sorry for so many questions, I am just excited!

(https://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/casonjimmy/7b39re2.jpg)


Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 03, 2006, 07:55:47 PM
Thank you so much for your nice comments. Yes, it is tongue and groove. We bought it prefinished at Grove Custom Sawing in Houghton Lake, MI. It was .83 cents per lineal foot for the 1x6 used on the ceiling and $1.20 per lineal foot for the 1x8 used on the walls. It took about 3300 lineal ft to do the areas we did. Glad you enjoyed the pictures.
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Jimmy_Cason on May 03, 2006, 08:03:32 PM
Great job on the house!
I am glad you posted the link to the pictures.
It always helps me with the visualization of my future tasks.
They also help me estimated costs before hand
so I dont get sticker shock while shopping for materials.

                                         
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Sassy on May 03, 2006, 08:12:57 PM
I can see why Jimmy got excited!  So many beautiful features... love the wood inside - like the way you did the cupboards in the kitchen with some open shelving interspersed with the closed... very nice.  If you hadn't said you'd used cement fiberboard for the outside siding, I'd have never known by looking at the pictures.  Isn't that a little branch for the wooden handle on the bathroom door where I think you said the water heater was stored?
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 03, 2006, 08:30:49 PM
Thank you for your interest Sassy. The handle on the door to the utility closet is a whitetail antler. My husband is a BIG fan of hunting and all things related.
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Boatz on May 03, 2006, 09:18:17 PM
I really like seeing how the cabin looks with the cathedral ceiling! Did you rework the floorplan much at all?
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Yetanothermike on May 03, 2006, 10:53:22 PM
Well done!  I particularly like the collar ties, the kitchen, and the bathroom details including the pocket door.  Is the red-painted wood recycled?  

Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 04, 2006, 08:14:33 AM
I got out the original floor plan I bought from John and the changes we made were somewhat minor. I will post the floor plan we drew up as soon as I can.
To answer the red wall question; Yes, the wood is recycled. I came from an old barn that was torn down. The floor of the loft also came from the loft floor of the same barn. We sanded, stained it black, then sanded lightly again to distress it. We finished with 3 coats of Varthane floor finish. It is VERY rustic, but we love the look.
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: Amanda_931 on May 04, 2006, 10:10:01 AM
Neat idea.  (not just the floor color)
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: deertracks on May 18, 2006, 09:53:00 PM
Nice Place!!! Do you have your floor plan revision posted on this site somewhere by chance. We are looking to build a 20x36 with a full loft. I love your kitchen and the pine t&g. Great decorating on all the rooms!! You should be proud.
deertracks
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: jwv on May 18, 2006, 10:22:37 PM
Very, very nice.  Love the red wall and the loft floor.  I tried to do something like that in the cabin in CO but it didn't turn out quite as nice as yours.  Also love the cabinets, where are they from? Great job, you should be very proud.  Thanks for sharing the photos.

Judy
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: jraabe on May 19, 2006, 11:02:50 AM
Amy and Dan have done a very nice job on this version of the 20' wide 1.5 story (http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings/50.html) plan. Especially noteworthy are their interior details and craftsman additions.

We are planning to do a Gallery page on this house but I worked up a few more images from the Yahoo link to paste in here.

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3614/basin3qz.jpg)
The bathroom basin

(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2708/kitchen7ce.jpg)
Kitchen cabinets

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/239/bedroom8ec.jpg)
Bedroom walls and typical window trim

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2863/dormer7qj.jpg)
Dormer treatment

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4145/sh8ml.jpg)
Shower and closet hiding the water heater
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 19, 2006, 11:04:21 AM
Thanks Judy! The cabinets are Kraftmaid, we ordered them from Home Depot. After shopping these cabinets around many places, they were the cheapest, plus we put them on out Home Depot card and got an additional 10% off and 1 year same as cash. Bargain hunting is such a job!
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: glenn-k on May 19, 2006, 09:07:15 PM
That is really a nice place.  Great job.
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: jwv on May 20, 2006, 09:12:00 AM
OK, so back to the cabinets.  Did you paint the black frame on the lowers?  And what is the countertop? YOur windows look like what we've ordered for our house. Now that I can see them in an actual home, I really like them.  Also that leaded glass window in one picture looks like the glass from a door we had.  Is that a door?

Judy
Title: Re: 20 x 34 1-1/2 story in Michigan
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 20, 2006, 11:00:06 AM
We actually are not completely done with the cabinets, what you see as black on the toe kick area is actually the unfinished toe kick space from the manufacture. They wanted too much for the prefinished, flimsy toe kick. We decided to do our own toe kick from either pine or slate tile, we will see. The black "stripes" inbetween the cabinets are actually sections of polyurethaned 3" pine spacers with a strip of stock "braided" molding stained black and finish-nailed in place.The counter tops are Formica in "Basalt Slate", it is colored and textured to resemble real slate.
(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B3757%3A%7Ffp344%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E%3A82%3E659%3EWSNRCG%3D3233698783355nu0mrj)

Yes, that is a window from a door. We bought the door to use at home and never did use it. We took the window out and built it into the landing support wall. It came from "Lowe's", so it probably is the same door you had!
(http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3B37648%7Ffp33%3B%3Enu%3D3233%3E66%3B%3E47%3B%3E232466%3B56%3C435ot1lsi)


Amy
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: Boatz on May 21, 2006, 12:13:48 PM
thanks for posting the floor plan - you've done such a beautiful job! it all makes excellent sense and you've managed to add artisticness and craftsmanship... WOW!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 21, 2006, 04:02:47 PM
Thank you for your kind words. We have discovered that there is NOTHING like building your own place to feed the creative Jones, both for the mind and the hands!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: deertracks on May 21, 2006, 04:56:51 PM
Great job... your house is very close to what we are planning. We will have a full loft. I was wondering if you have had any things pop up that you would do different with the floorplan. Sometimes using the space brings out things you can't know when drawing things out. We will be living in our cabin full time so I'm trying to figure in all the little things like broom closet, etc. I actually got those tips from seeing revised plans on this site. Thanks... enjoy your great place.
deertracks
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 21, 2006, 06:57:57 PM
Thinking about it, there are probably quite a few little things we would do different if we were going to live full time in our cabin. We revised the floor plan specifically with the intention of making this a vacation/weekend cabin only. To live there full time we would have put more storage in. We got rid of the pantry closet under the stair in favor of an open tread look for the stair way to give it a more open feel. The under stair closet would probably be very useful. We did not put a closet in the bedroom, instead, we use an Armoire for clothes. Full time living would require a bedroom closet. We originally planned to put a door to the bathroom in the bedroom, but didn't do it. It would be a nice feature, though. A coat closet would be nice, too. Hope this helps.
Amy
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: CREATIVE1 on June 14, 2006, 09:28:24 PM
I really like your combination of open and closed upper cabinets in the kitchen.  Looks very cabin-y.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: Amanda_931 on June 14, 2006, 09:56:28 PM

Creative 1 thinks:
QuoteI really like your combination of open and closed upper cabinets in the kitchen.  Looks very cabin-y
.

Me too.  cabin-y and useful too.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: RedRiverFamily on September 06, 2006, 09:54:27 PM
I really love the job you've done!  I just purchased the 1 1/2 Story plans and will be getting started in the spring.

If you don't mind sharing, what brand and model are your windows?  I really like the look of those.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on September 25, 2006, 08:37:35 PM
The window are from a local company (Oxbowindo). They are green aluminum clad (outside) & pine inside. The grills on the inside are "Prarie" style. But the Doorwalls are Lincoln. We are happy with the windows. They are an excellent quality and they were cheaper than the big guys. You might want to try to look around your hometown, sometimes they can manufacture them for less.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: Boatz on December 05, 2006, 10:31:38 PM
So, AAA-Day, I'm curious - did you get the porch on this summer? Any updated pictures to share?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: phalynx on March 07, 2007, 02:31:30 PM
My wife and I love how you have built your house.  We are seriously considering making the changes you did.  I have 1 question.  In looking at your construction pictures, I ran  across one that doesn't "make sense" to me.  It may be an angle, or that I don't know where it is in the house, or something that you changed.  In this picture, there are some joist trusses that extend into the living room.  What are these for?  I don't see them in the finished pictures..

(http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/4458e2caz5f27058d/886are2/__sr_/ce5fre2.jpg?phodx7FBDdiEk21U)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: southernsis on March 07, 2007, 07:04:21 PM
Really a great looking place. We have the 1 1/2 story plan also and like what you have done with yours. I noticed a black dog in one of your photos. Can't tell what breed. It looks similar to a Newfoundland. Just curious about the breed as I have a Newfy.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: crose on March 14, 2007, 09:15:35 PM
what a great place.   thanks so much for sharing.  your photos and posting on this site make me anxious to get at it.

im from northern wisconin, near the crandon area.  ill be building my dream cabin (very humble cabin, that is) during the late summer.  

any ideas of about how much you spent on just the framing, walls, and roof...that is, to get it weather tight?  im trying to get the four walls and roof up in a month of full-time work with another guy (my nephew).

thanks again....great place!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: glenn-k on March 14, 2007, 09:41:48 PM
Welcome to the forum, crose.  Some have dried it for around 10 to 12M if they were thrifty and did nearly all their own work with volunteer labor.  There are some other bits of information scattered through out the forum.  A search may bring it up.  Use the "Click Search to find a topic quickly - search line -- not the one with the spyglass.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: crose on March 16, 2007, 01:17:49 AM
Hey Glenn, thanks so much for the warm welcome.  Wow, hard to believe that such a small place can get one into  10-12k, but actually, I dont doubt it.  Im finishing up a small bathroom/laundary room addition, 8x16 total, and Im already in it well over 10k...not quite done either.  It wipped me out and now the cabin is going to suffer.  The plumbing in the bathroom really killed me :o

I better keep my sights on a smallish cabin for now, lest I get in deeper than I can swim-financially, and have to come home with it not dried.

This is really a great website.  I get so stoked looking through everyones projects.  I will probably be purchasing one of the sets of plans in the near future.  

Cheers, and thanks again for the welcome.
Chris
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: glenn-k on March 16, 2007, 01:58:46 AM
Glad you enjoy the forum - that's our goal.

I spent 10K to remodel a bathroom at the other place years ago.  :o
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 14, 2007, 01:26:18 PM
Hi, Everyone!
Sorry I haven't answered any posts in awhile. I got busy and forgot to check in!! :)  I wanted to answer the question by "Phalynx" regarding the mysterious joist trusses that extend into the living room.  I can't see the picture you are referring to in the post, but I think I know what you are referring to. You are absolutely right that they don't appear in the finished cabin pictures.  These joists were nailed into place and spanned from the loft floor to the front wall and covered in plywood to create a "catwalk" to work on the ceiling area above the open livingroom. After we finished all the ceiling wiring, insulation, and tongue and groove, we removed the walkway.
Hope this clears up the confusion.

PS to Southernisis,  She is a VERY big Black Lab
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 14, 2007, 01:42:22 PM
Hi again! I forgot to post the new pictures of the loft railing and finished stairs. We used Pine and Rebar for this project.
We are currently putting stone on the outside of the chimney and we poured the cement porch on the other side this past weekend. It is approx. 10 feet wide by 34 feet long and we hope to have it covered one day! I will post pictures of these projects as I get them.

(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/stair-aaa.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: jraabe on May 14, 2007, 02:49:57 PM
Nice job on the stairs and the rebar railings. Very Snappy 8-)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: MarkAndDebbie on June 01, 2007, 06:59:06 PM
Looks great. Did you do anything to smooth/finish the rebar?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on June 03, 2007, 01:34:15 PM
The rebar was kind of rusted in spots, we toyed with the idea of leaving it in it's "natural" state, but the rust came off on your hands and clothes when you brushed against it. So basically, we wire wheeled the rust off and spray painted it black.

Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: glenn-k on June 03, 2007, 01:38:51 PM
Sounds like a good way to do it.  Nice contrast with the wood.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on June 03, 2007, 02:28:07 PM
Thanks, Glen. We like the contrast of new, satin smooth pine, old rustic barnwood, and a touch of "industrial" rebar. We try to keep things interesting by mixing our materials.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: MarkAndDebbie on June 03, 2007, 08:22:28 PM
We like it so much, we're talking about adding it in somewhere on our cabin. I'm looking at my cast iron skillet and wondering to myself about a carbonized oil finish...
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Floor plan updat
Post by: AAA-DAY on June 04, 2007, 10:34:20 AM
Let me know if you do that, I would be interested to know how it works out for future reference. Another alternative I have used for other projects is the textured spray paint, I think by Rustoleum. I believe it is called something like hammered iron. We used it to spray paint a gold lamp and some knobs, looked great.
Title: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior photos
Post by: AAA-DAY on June 17, 2007, 03:53:51 PM
This past weekend, we went to the cabin for a little R&R. When we pulled up, we discovered this little guy curled up in the corner of our chimney bumpout. He was nestled in behind some antlers my husband had propped up against the wall last time we were up. I didn't have my camera with me, but I took this photo with my camera phone. Too cute!!

(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/deer.png)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: deertracks on June 27, 2007, 05:47:50 PM
That's a once-in-a-lifetime picture!
How cute.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: Sassy on June 27, 2007, 11:30:01 PM
That certainly is!  What did the deer do when it saw you?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: AAA-DAY on June 28, 2007, 11:36:42 AM
I am glad you are enjoying this picture. The little one just turned his head (like in the picture) and pretended we were not there. We went to the neighbors to see if they had a camera, when we returned with their camera, it was gone. We looked in the woods for him for a while, but finally gave up.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: jraabe on June 28, 2007, 12:38:08 PM
That is certainly an evocative photo!

A tiny baby protected by the antlers of a dead ancestor...
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: happylogan on June 30, 2007, 11:46:57 AM
Nice finished product!!!  If tou don't mind what was the $$ final coast? Did you already have the land?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: AAA-DAY on July 01, 2007, 07:01:23 AM
We bought the land the winter before we started building. We estimate the cost to be roughly $50,000 for the structure. We have not sat down and figured it out yet.  However, we never paid anyone for labor cost, except for the septic field and well. We also shopped around alot looking for deals where we could. One day, we will sit down and go through all the receipts to figure it out (we might be surprised)!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: glenn-k on July 01, 2007, 10:26:45 AM
That is a shot (picture) that you could never set up if you wanted to.  Nice. :)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pic
Post by: peg_688 on July 01, 2007, 04:38:48 PM
Fawns think you don't see them if they freeze like a statue , this lil guy held the pose for a good 3 mintutes so I could go get the camera.


(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Brownsteinskitchen7.jpg)

Last week I had to stop the van on the road cuz one froze up in the middle of the road  :o They think thats there best defence when really little I guess.

BTW your is a great picture with the antlers  8-) Like Glenn said you could never set it up that way with a wild deer.  Thanks for posting it  :)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 17, 2008, 04:22:18 PM
Well, it's been a long winter! It feels good to finally get back to the cabin. But, no baby deer yet. I have taken more pictures of the latest updates and hope to post them as soon as I can get the posting issues I am having staightened out. In the meantime, I am enjoying everyone else's project updates!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 17, 2008, 09:27:52 PM
I hope I have my issues straightened out! Here goes...

Just wanted to share our progress if you care to see! To update, we have been busy putting the stone on the chimney and around the bottom of the outside. In addition, we poured the large porch. Landscaping will hopefully be this summer. The porch overhangs will have to wait until a better economy  :(

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1469-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1471-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1472-1.jpg)



We have been busy finishing out the trim work, and decorating the inside.  [shocked]

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1410-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1411-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1412-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1413-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1414-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1416-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1422-1.jpg)



We can not afford to put flooring in at this time, but we did paint the bathroom and bedroom floor with basement floor paint.  :o

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1427-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1453-1.jpg)



We put in transom windows above the bedroom door and bathroom door. Here is the bedroom one.  :D

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1449-1.jpg)



We also finished the trim in the loft and storage cubby doors.  8)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1430-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1434-1.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1436-1.jpg)



That is pretty much where we are left now. Hopefully the outside landscaping will receive our attention this summer. It sure would be nice to look at some green stuff instead of dirt across the septic field  ;)

Thanks for allowing us to share our project's progression!





Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 17, 2008, 11:48:04 PM
Thanks for posting the update, AAA-DAY.  Outstanding job.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: John Raabe on May 18, 2008, 12:57:33 AM
Very handsome job Amy. :D First cabin all the way.

We lived for a couple of years on a painted plywood subfloor. It was really no problem and easy to repaint when needed.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: CWhite on May 18, 2008, 10:47:50 AM
Your home was an inspiration to me while I built mine, and I am very impressed with your attention to details inside.
The interior door sure does add a heightened look inside the bedroom.  I am equally impressed with the exterior finished chimney stone.  Great job on that.  Landscaping sounds like another perfection project for you, but I think it fit so naturally into the landscape now, I can't wait to see what you do to improve it if you'll post pictures further in. 

I am going to build a plate rack cabinet much like the one pictured in your kitchen.  Would you mind posting a picture of it closer up so that I might see it?  thanks if you can.  I'm still working on details in my house, and very much enjoying living in it. 

Christina
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 18, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
Christina,

Thank you so much for the post. I took a peak at your photo collection link, talk about attention to detail! What a stunner.  :) I absolutely love the carving details in your home. The floors in your lower level are just wonderful. My husband (Dan) poured and finished our floor with the intention of doing acid staining on the concrete, but we didn't take care of the poured floor while constructing and it was so stained and full of construction gunk, that we couldn't do it. Now seeing yours, I am so bummed that we didn't put more care into protecting the finished concrete while building.  :( 

Well, here is the plate rack Dan built for the cabin. I finished it in a flat black paint, sanding some "years" into the paint, then stained it with a gel stain. I finished it with 3 coats of rub on satin finish poly. Please post your finished rack, I LOVE to see handmade pieces.

Good Luck with your project!
Amy


(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/CIMG1411-2-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Mike 870 on May 19, 2008, 09:13:24 AM
Looks great.  I love the stonework and the wood trim contrasts with the sheetrock walls really well in the bedroom.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Sassy on May 22, 2008, 07:01:39 PM
Beautiful, Amy!  Really enjoyed looking at your pix & the progress you made.  I'm with Christina, the yard looks good as is with the pine trees & the wonderful way you've done the stone work around the base of the house & chimney.  It is always nice to look at some green, but Glenn would say, plant a garden - he doesn't have much love for grass yards... 

I noticed the plate rack, also - so your husband made it?  Very nice - I could use one of those...  again, the house is beautiful - your work is something to be proud of - even without the finished floors, most people won't even know  :)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 22, 2008, 07:22:33 PM
Sassy and Mike, Thanks so much for your kind words. The problem we are having with dirt is the LARGE septic field. We can't plant anything that will put down roots (for obvious reasons!) I am not sure what else to cover this field with that will keep the dust and weeds at bay. It seems that grass is the least complicated thing. Any other suggestions fit for a septic field. I would appreciate all suggestions!
Amy
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 22, 2008, 07:44:40 PM
PM Daddymem.  He may have some ideas.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 23, 2008, 06:46:15 AM
Glenn,
OK, I will be glad to PM Daddymem ... but what does PM mean?  ???
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 23, 2008, 07:41:49 AM
Private message.  That way you may get an answer sooner.  You just click on his name on one of his postings or member profile and it will give you the option to send him a private message.  If he has notification turned on it will pop up a message notice to him next time he signs in.  (Here he is an off duty septic system engineer and general good guy). :)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 23, 2008, 07:54:03 AM
Thanks! I will do that, and now I will always know what PM means!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: deertracks on May 25, 2008, 02:04:15 PM
Can you please tell me what finish you used on your interior pine? We are trying to get a rich golden tone with a satin-look finish. We will have pine interior doors and trim but not all the lovely pine in the cathedral ceiling for now. If I missed this info posted elsewhere in your site, I apologize.

Your house is wonderful and I'm sure it will make it hard to leave when vacation is over!!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: John Raabe on May 25, 2008, 11:20:27 PM
Deertracks:

According to the Owner-Builder Gallery (http://www.countryplans.com/gallery.html) page the interior pine was prefinished - (probably with a type of polyurethane).

There is more information here about the materials and finishes used in this house:

http://www.countryplans.com/amydan.html

Here is a link to how one supplier of prefinished pine paneling does their two coat process.

(http://www.buffalo-lumber.com/images/hand-stained-pine-2.jpg)
http://www.buffalo-lumber.com/pine-paneling.htm
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: John Raabe on May 25, 2008, 11:57:37 PM
PS - Here's a photo from Deertracks' project and the Snapfish gallery link she sent me.

(https://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/jraabe/deertracks.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: glenn kangiser on May 26, 2008, 12:12:10 PM
That's looking good.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on May 26, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
Hi Deertrack's,

John is correct, we did buy it prefinished with 2 coats of clear water based poly. It was available in a "candlelight" finish for an upcharge. This was a water based, also, but it was tinted a golden color. The company sent us actual pieces of the wood in both colors. We wanted the more golden color, but really didn't want to pay the additional charge, so we went with the clear.

The ceiling, doors, and trim in the bathroom and bedroom, however, was bought unfinished and we finished it with 2 coats of oil based poly. This gave it a wonderful golden tone that we loved. It was a lot messier, smellier, and more work, but the finished golden color was worth the effort.

Hope this helps!   Amy
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: deertracks on June 02, 2008, 09:04:21 PM
Thanks John and Amy... that helps.
Hopefully some day I'll have inside pics to show!!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: irish25 on October 18, 2008, 08:59:47 PM
How much would it cost to put up the cabin/house? A guesstimate. Thanks! Jerry
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: glenn kangiser on October 18, 2008, 09:09:45 PM
I think some have done it themselves for $50 psf plus or minus.  w* to the forum, Jerry.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: apaknad on October 19, 2008, 08:06:06 AM
hi jerry,

welcome. what part of mi. you from? i live near jackson. alot of smart people here and some great ideas.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: rakuz66 on October 22, 2008, 06:17:45 AM
Cabin looks great!.  Did you use a ridge beam?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on November 01, 2008, 07:41:10 PM
Hi Rakuz66. No, we didn't use a ridge beam. We used a ridge board because it was a less expensive alternative. A ridge beam that long would be very costly and hard to get back into the woods. Instead, we used two 2 x 12 x 20's spliced together with a scarf joint.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: smcdaniel345 on March 29, 2009, 10:33:44 PM
How did you support the second floor?  My husband and I are building a 20x42 with a 20x18 loft.  Like your floor plan, the bedroom/bathroom wall downstairs is not center (or even close to it).  My brother is law wants me to move the bathroom wall over so it's closer to center, but I like the layout I have.  Also, the upper floor has a wall down the center to divide the area into 2 rooms.  What options do I have to support the upper section?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on March 31, 2009, 08:04:23 AM
Your loft size is close to the size in our cabin. We were able to support the floor independant of any supporting walls or post underneath. We used a 12" LVL header that spanned the 20 foot width and sat on top of the exterior walls. The loft floor joist (12" also) rested on the back exterior wall and were supported by joist hangers attached to the LVL header in the front. Then, the loft decking was attached on top of the joist. This arrangement created 8' walls in the rooms under the loft and 9' walls in the vaulted ceiling area. The rooms underneath could be divided in any way because they were not needed for support. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any further questions. 
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: shmily524 on April 09, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
After some time has passed, are you happy with the siding? Will the maintenance schedule be better than vinyl or wood siding?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on April 09, 2009, 12:29:33 PM
We couldn't be happier. We love the look and it has required no maintenance yet, aside from washing the dirt off. We have had wood siding on previous structures and they did require staining or painting every 4 or 5 years. Vinyl is pretty carefree, but the wood-stained look is not available (that I know of). Another benefit that is not applicable to wood or vinyl is that this siding is flame retardant.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: TexstarJim on April 13, 2009, 06:24:20 PM
I'm really impressed with your cabin and want to thank you for sharing your work with all the pictures.  I've had the plans for a little over a year and finally got financing through my bank.  The mortgage collapse all across the country has made it very difficult to get started, but I will begin the first week of June 2009.

Will you be available through the coming months for questions when I get into a dilemma over which step to make next?  I sure hope so, you can be a great help and probably save me time and money by helping me to prevent a mistake before I make one.


Update to reply:  I've started on mine, finally.  Loan came through towards the end of May, the first thing I did was have the aerobic sewer system installed and due to delays by the company installing the sewer system, I didn't get to start on my pier and beam foundation until early August.  My thread is running as: "24x32 Lake Cabin in Oklahoma"

Thanks, Jim  ;D
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on April 14, 2009, 11:29:42 AM
Hello Jim!  Good luck on your upcoming project, it is an exciting time. We will be available and more than happy to answer any questions you have about our methods. All and all, we are extremely happy about how the cabin turned out and have had no problems with it. Please do post pictures of your progress, we would love to see them!

Best of Luck, Amy
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: jaysteinbach on January 13, 2010, 03:01:32 PM
hello, i must say i love the house you built, what im trying to do here is get the modified plans that you did to build this house with the catherdial ceiling and how you managed to build it. how you did the roof truses, and beems, my idea was 24x50 the same way you did your house. do you think your plans would work the same way??thanks for any info you can help me with. please email me with anything you can help with or guide me with jaysteinbach2009@aol.com thanks jay
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: waxheimer on March 15, 2010, 08:31:01 AM
Where is the washer/dryer? 
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: pasia on August 09, 2010, 10:57:03 AM
DOES ANYONE HAVE A COPY OF THE REVISED FLOOR PLANS FOR DAN AND AMY'S MICHIGAN CABIN. THEY TURNED THE 1 1/2 STORY CABIN INTO A 20 X 34  1 1/2 STORY WITH A SHED DORMER LOFT. IT IS BEAUTIFUL !!!! WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME IDEAS.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: brybry on December 29, 2010, 05:45:27 PM
hi was wondering if you can purchase your plans from from countryplans planning on building on sebago lake me. in spring and eally liked all your ideas
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Mike 870 on December 30, 2010, 06:03:15 PM
Nice, I was just in Naples ME.  Good luck with your project.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: EaglesSJ on December 13, 2011, 03:10:20 AM
What is the rise and run of your stairs. Seems very steep but I have been thinking of redoing ours and like the look and fit of yours
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on December 30, 2011, 08:50:20 PM
Hello EaglesSJ. Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, we moved and changed our email address in early 2010 and totally forgot to update it here. Looks like I have missed several folks questions. I am so sorry!

You are right, the main flight up from the first landing are steeper than a normal stair run. Going up is fine, but going down is a bit tricky if you're not used to it. We had to do this in order to not run in front of the kitchen. It works nice in this instance because the support wall (the one with the leaded glass window) for the second landing (on step down from the loft floor) acts as a bit of a privacy screen to the bathroom and bedroom area.

My husband doesn't remember the rise and run exactly and we won't be going up until spring. He just remembers that he measured the height between the landings and the width we had to work with and came as close as he could to a comfortable distance between steps while evenly filling the space. The staircase is an open build, which is important because it allowed us to use deeper steps for a more solid footing. The steps run in front of each other, kind of like a very tilted ladder. Sorry the explanation isn't the best, it's hard to describe.

Here are a few pictures. One from inside the loft looking to the landing at the top, and one from the top landing looking down to the bottom landing.

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/cabin/CIMG0447.jpg)

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/cabin/CIMG0449.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Don_P on December 30, 2011, 09:41:14 PM
It looks like the run could have started at the edge of the red and white checkered rug. If so that amount of room would have increased each tread by several inches. I don't like winders but they can also help buy you some room sometimes.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on December 30, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
You are absolutely right, starting the run closer to the door would have given us some room. But we didn't do that because the stairs could not have risen that high along that wall because of the slope of the ceiling. We had to make a turn and start up sooner to follow the peak of the roof.

This picture shows a better view of the relationship between the ceiling and stairway.

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/cabin/CIMG1412.jpg)

And we, also, are not fans of winding staircases.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Don_P on December 30, 2011, 11:21:29 PM
Ahh, there's the rub. I like the red wall  [cool]
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Mike 870 on December 31, 2011, 10:43:47 AM
This has always been one of the favorite cabins on CPs.  Glad you are back.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: ellbaker on January 01, 2012, 02:21:09 AM
I agree, glad you are back.  Your cabin is my inspiration for my build. I copied your dormer and am getting ready to build a similar fireplace. I wanted a similar exterior but the pre stained Certainteed was a luxury I could not justify. Ended up going with plain Certainteed and self painting.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on January 01, 2012, 12:47:45 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome back and the kind words regarding our cabin.
I agree, the prefinished Certainteed was a big expense, but I think it's gone up quite a bit since we ordered it. Although, I understand some construction type materials have gone down in this poor economy, but I'm not sure since our building days are behind us...for now!  ;)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: ellbaker on January 01, 2012, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: AAA-DAY on January 01, 2012, 12:47:45 PM
I agree, the prefinished Certainteed was a big expense, but I think it's gone up quite a bit since we ordered it.

Prefinished with stain was $19 a piece vs $5 for primed.  220 pieces made it an easy decision.  I started off trying to use the same stain in Redwood color but that was a $200 experiment gone wrong.  I also used Duration paint which has a lifetime warranty vs. the stain was a 7 year warranty. 

(https://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z392/Ericbaker0467/IMG_20111217_125445.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Ameryt on January 08, 2012, 03:00:36 PM
@ Ellbalker would love to see more pics of  your cabin!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- Fixed broken link to photos
Post by: AAA-DAY on November 17, 2012, 03:17:00 PM
Hello! I haven't been to this site in quite sometime and now realize that when I rearranged my online photos I broke the link to the photos I've posted. So I thought I would update the link to the new photo album.

http://photobucket.com/danamycabin
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: C.Oden on March 19, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
Wondering if anyone has more pics of this particular build ?
The links are all DOA it seems. Beautiful job they did.

How would one address making the stairs not as steep? If one added more length per se - anyone have thoughts on a slightly different configeration w/o ruining the overall layout of this place????? Thanks
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: suburbancowboy on March 19, 2013, 05:21:45 PM
A higher landing would have decreased the angle.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: C.Oden on March 19, 2013, 05:29:55 PM
That I understand somewhat  but to get that higher landing to become reality would be done how other than extending the house and then "pushing"  the thing back per se on that new longer wall? To create a higher landing requires more actual floor space to do so. Maybe its somehow available there - not sure and that was reason I was hoping more pics are out there somewhere.

Or would it need to be relocated in general placement?? ???

Thanks
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on March 20, 2013, 11:46:07 AM
Hello! I am sorry that some of the pics have lost their links. I did some rearranging of my on line album and didn't realize I was messing things up, and it appears that the postings are too old for me to edit. So I have included a link to the album that contains the pictures:

http://photobucket.com/danamycabin

Regarding the staircase...in order for the cabin configuration to remain as it is, this was the only way to put the staircase without making changes we were unwilling to make. Believe me, we racked our brain trying to figure it out because this pitch wasn't what we wanted.
The layout is posted below for reference. The first set of stairs, from the main floor to the first landing are at a normal angle, but when you are on the landing the ceiling above you starts to slope upward (12/12 pitch) so you cannot have the landing higher. You are correct that if the walls in the main area were taller than 9 ft, you could make the first landing higher by sliding the first set of stairs closer to the doorwall, allowing more stairs in the first set. What the wall height would be to allow a normal staircase, I'm not sure.
The second problem is the location of the kitchen which is tucked under the loft overhang. If you move the second landing, at the loft entrance down toward the center of the cabin, you would end up with the support wall in front of the fridge. While there is just enough room to open the fridge, I didn't like the obstruction it would create in the kitchen.
Perhaps making the cabin wider than 20' would give you more room to work in a normal stair, or somehow doing a modification that would allow the stairs to come straight down from the center of the loft toward the front of the cabin and make a turn back toward the kitchen. This would impact your livingroom space, but you may counteract that by making the cabin a little longer by maybe 4 or 6 feet.
Having utilized the space for a while now, these are just some ideas that may work for you. We don't use the loft often, we have a pull out couch for guest that can't make the climb up the stairs. Going up the stairs is no problem at all, those that are able to make use of the stairs don't seem to mind once they find the method of descending that works for them.

Hope this helps. If you have any other question, please ask!

(https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/blondrtt/cabin/106mtf7.jpg)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: UperJoe on March 20, 2013, 12:43:43 PM
Hi AAA! - you have done a nice job on this place. I am curious as to the link above you provided - I cannot get it to open and would enjoy seeing more pictures also. Is there a magical trick to getting this to open?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on March 20, 2013, 03:14:02 PM
I'm not sure why it won't open. It opens fine for me. What happens when you try to open it? I will work on another link, and repost when I get it worked out.
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: MountainDon on March 20, 2013, 04:20:55 PM
works for me  ???
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: UperJoe on March 20, 2013, 06:56:05 PM
Does for me now too ??? ??? [cool]

I at first thought it was server issue here or something and had a friend try off his laptop and using sprint hotspot and he had same issue. Maybe it was just a short term glitch  with them.
Thanks - and now I am off to peruse them all again.     :)
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: C.Oden on March 20, 2013, 08:04:49 PM
Not for me  :-[
Do I have to have an account with them or ?

I click the link and takes me to page and thats it. Once I had the spinning circles show up but nothing now????? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: UperJoe on March 20, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
me either again - it did for the second try and now nothing.  :o
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: C.Oden on March 21, 2013, 10:31:39 AM
Today must be the charm .... the pics open perfectly!! [cool]
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on March 21, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
I am so sorry to have them stored on such a problematic site!!  ??? But I'm glad they appear to be opening for you all now! [cool]
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: waterbug on March 21, 2013, 11:28:22 AM
I have looked at your build thread numerous times trying to plan something for my family and must tell you that your place looks great!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: AAA-DAY on March 21, 2013, 12:02:38 PM
Thank you so much! It was (and still is) truly a labor of love!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: UperJoe on March 21, 2013, 12:54:35 PM
P=Bucket working fine today!!!! And I agree with everyone else ....a fantastic job on this build!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: umah on March 27, 2013, 05:17:31 PM
I love how this came out, it's a beautiful place!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Doubledeuce on April 12, 2015, 03:16:55 PM
what a beautiful cabin. absolutely love it!
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: roadmap65 on May 05, 2016, 03:44:12 AM
There hasn't been a comment on this in awhile. Maybe one of the experts can help. My question is on the wall height of AAA-DAY cabin. Are the walls 8 ft? maybe 9?
Title: Re: Michigan 20 x 34 1-1/2 story- New interior pics
Post by: Mark.R on May 09, 2016, 03:59:37 PM
Hello' this is a beautiful cabin. The side walls don't look as tall as others.  In post 75 I believe is your answer.  They said 8 feet in the bedrooms so I think I feet.  They have done a wonderfully job as so many have done here.  Great  resource