Hi everyone!
It is time for me to introduce myself and my project. I am planning to build a 16x24 cabin at a remote location in Northern Saskatchewan. It will be boat access only and it will be constructed on the rock of the Canadian shield. I will decline to give away the exact location of the cabin - the main reason for building it is to get away from it all. ;)
My background: I have been on this planet for a little more than three decades and I was born and raised in rural SW Saskatchewan. I have lived in Saskatoon for the last 12 years. I am a civil engineer and I pay the bills by making sure that our highway bridges don't fall down.
Project background: My girlfriend and I love to go on backcountry canoe trips in Northern SK. On these trips, we would wax poetic about how incredible it would be to wake up to the call of the loon and watch the morning fog lift as we sip our coffee on the veranda of our own small cabin. This idle talk increased in frequency and eventually formed into an idea that could no longer be resisted. At first, I was planning to build a squatter's cabin. My practical side forced me to investigate what it would require to build a "legal" cabin. It turned out to be not so onerous...with one exception. The Ministry of Environment (MOE) has put a moratorium on all recreational cabin leases south of the 56th parallel (and south of the 57th, on the west side of the province), unless you want to develop a proper subdivision with roads, utilities, etc. They drew a line in the sand, so to speak. That magic line is well over 500 km from where I live! I forgive you in advance if you think I am crazy. I am sure there are number of forum members who know exactly why I am willing to go to great lengths for a bit of true solitude. This cabin is meant to be an occasional getaway, not a permanent home. This was one of the reasons that I did not pursue purchasing land closer to home. I also do not have any interest in going into debt for this project - one mortgage is enough. The recreational cabin lease allows an individual to build a cabin north of the magic line for a mere $275/year. You are given the right to use a 75' x 150' piece of Crown land (you do not own the land) for the purpose of building a recreational cabin. The lease term is 33 years and as long as you have paid your dues and you have not caused any problems, they will renew the lease for consecutive 33 year terms. There is also a small property tax fee based on the value of the improvement that you construct. They have a form you fill out, you provide photos, and they come up with a fee. The tax collector that I talked to felt that $200/year would be a good estimate for what I am planning to construct.
We made a number of trips over the past two years looking for suitable cabin locations. There are many fond memories from these trips. I used Google satellite imagery and government topo maps (1:50,000 scale) to identify desktop targets for exploration. It was a real learning experience to explore the thin blue lines on the map, only to find that the 20 year old topo maps and 3 or 4 year old satellite imagery did not identify dry, boulder filled creek beds and mega structures constructed by the local beaver population. This summer (2013), we settled on a location that we first came across last summer. I made one final trip this fall to make sure that the location still felt right. It did. So I submitted my lease application.
Current project status: I have submitted my recreational cabin lease application and I am expecting a response in early summer 2014. The MOE does a bit of public consultation with First Nations groups and the few local residents that live in the area. I am currently deep in the planning and design process. I have my heart set on a 16x24 footprint with a half loft and a cathedral ceiling. I am very familiar with the issues associated with those choices, but to me, that is the quintessential cabin design. I plan to support the cabin on a pier and beam foundation that will be anchored into the bedrock with concrete footings and grouted-in rebar anchors. I know this foundation is not ideal, but I cannot think of a better foundation for a boat access, off-grid cabin...unless all of you are going to come help me haul bags of Quickcrete to the site, and then stick around for the hand mixing. I also think a permanent wood foundation would be problematic on an irregular bedrock surface.
I am hoping to complete the preliminary site clearing and foundation prep during the first week of July 2014. I will continue site clearing and foundation prep in the first week of August. I will be taking the entire month of September away from work and I am hoping to complete a weather proof shell during this time. I chose September because of the more reasonable weather and reduced insect populations.
That should be enough information to get my thread started. Stay tuned for more details of the Great Northern Saskatchewan Adventure. I will try to get some site photos up soon (after I read the thread on how to post photos).
Looking forward to seeing this project.....
I have assembled some of the photos from the cabin scouting trips over the past two years. Good times!
Here is a photo of yours truly during one of the first cabin scouting adventures in 2012.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uFHbPCtUJ2g/UqJgWlyCr5I/AAAAAAAAAic/PAFewMnOUPI/w506-h675/IMG_4407.JPG)
Our trusty partners in crime, the Jeep and the old orange canoe.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-niq2nWL-r_c/UqJk8pPsNzI/AAAAAAAAAj4/H8kTDyyOP3s/w506-h380/IMG_4403.JPG)
This is the view from one of our base camps. This is what we are searching for...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tFX2W0YrAjI/UqJl9OpFL1I/AAAAAAAAAkc/uaJ1uV3hWK0/w752-h564-no/IMG_4483.JPG)
The creek looked a lot more passable on Google Earth and the topo map. One of many dead ends (and lessons learned).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RvS7CrkWnT0/UqJlHB86_7I/AAAAAAAAAkM/iVOEPVJmMVg/w752-h564-no/IMG_4418.JPG)
Here is a glimpse of the beach that is pretty close to the future cabin site. My better half was firm in her belief that any cabin must have a suitable beach nearby. That is a tall order in the Canadian shield but we made it happen.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cWI9b4SKMNA/UqJlp--gzRI/AAAAAAAAAkU/YCCpin7_dPM/w752-h564-no/IMG_4514.JPG)
The view from the site. A friend and I went on a late season kayak trip to the site before I applied for the lease (end of October 2013). It is on a small bay and is about 8 to 10 metres above the water level. It snowed more than one would hope for while on a kayak trip.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yiIWEHAnAZM/Um7dRaV06qI/AAAAAAAAAg0/X-glN0k0k5E/w752-h564-no/The+View.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WXuuUkalOLw/Um7dJPkF7mI/AAAAAAAAAfk/NzTR40r3zho/w752-h564-no/100_1426.JPG)
(the above photo is from back at base camp - an old mining exploration camp)
Quote from: Kris on December 06, 2013, 06:48:57 PM
Looking forward to seeing this project.....
Hi Kris. I have enjoyed reading about your icosa dome project. You have a great spot along the river!
North Sask,
Looks like a great place! I'll be interested in watching your project. You've made me curious about how Alberta handles the lease request situation. I'll have to look into it. I assume your "lot" will be surrounded by crown land you will have access too.
Kevin (outside Edmonton)
Hi Kevin,
My lot will be surrounded by crown land for hundreds of miles in all directions. I will definitely have access to an impressive amount of wilderness.
Out of curiosity, I did a quick Google search to see what I could find for options in Alberta. I was not able to come up with anything for leasing crown land. You have a lot more economic activity in northern AB so maybe there are very limited options for leasing crown land. The Public Lands Operational Handbook has a lot of good info, but it is for commercial/industrial activity. It seems like contacting someone at ESRD would be a good place for you to start. If nothing else, La Loche is only 800 km from Edmonton. Come on into SK and lease some land for a cabin. ;D
Beautiful country, I have a nephew moving up into that area.
Can you identify the trees we're seeing? Are you able to harvest and use some of them in the cabin?
QuoteI plan to support the cabin on a pier and beam foundation that will be anchored into the bedrock with concrete footings and grouted-in rebar anchors. I know this foundation is not ideal, but I cannot think of a better foundation for a boat access, off-grid cabin
Let's think harder. Posts extending out of the cabin would be braced by the walls, that's one way. Making a moment resisting connection between pier and beam would be another, doing the same between rock and pier would be a third. There appear to be a few rocks, it doesn't take that much mortar to build a wall. Calculate load and provide resistance, it doesn't have to be concrete.
Quote from: Don_P on December 07, 2013, 12:27:08 PM
Beautiful country, I have a nephew moving up into that area.
Can you identify the trees we're seeing? Are you able to harvest and use some of them in the cabin?
I am curious to know what would bring your nephew to this part of the world. Is it for work?
I am pretty limited when it comes to identification of tree species. Down by the beach there are a lot of paper birch and poplar, maybe some aspen and cottonwood. I think the area is a former creek that fed into the lake. It is somewhat low lying and seems to be damp in the summer. This photo will give you an idea of the trees but it was taken in the fall on an overcast day:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ac6q4eh7LSg/Um7dFYjuupI/AAAAAAAAAeY/7iHztxsSLF0/w752-h564-no/100_1421.JPG)
The cabin site will be up in the background of the above photo. You can faintly see the rocky "cliffs" along the shoreline. At the immediate location of the cabin there are mainly small conifers. I'm thinking jack pine and black spruce. There is little soil cover over the bedrock and low solar radiation, so the trees don't seem to grow very large in that part of the world. Here is a different view at the cabin site:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--RgB6_PkLCo/Um7dAyjh7bI/AAAAAAAAAdg/HrBC6Dd9leM/w752-h564-no/100_1414.JPG)
The ground cover is mainly Labrador tea, lichen, moss and decaying organics. There is a 6 to 12 inch layer before you encounter the rock.
The idea of using the trees that are on-site is logistically appealing. I have never worked with logs so I am not familiar with the tricks of the trade. I am not interested in building a log cabin, but using some of the on-site timber for columns/posts might work. It might be tricky to find large enough trees to use in the build. How long do you need to wait to use a tree after you fell it? Do you peel of the bark and store it up off the ground?
Quote from: Don_P on December 07, 2013, 12:27:08 PM
Let's think harder. Posts extending out of the cabin would be braced by the walls, that's one way. Making a moment resisting connection between pier and beam would be another, doing the same between rock and pier would be a third. There appear to be a few rocks, it doesn't take that much mortar to build a wall. Calculate load and provide resistance, it doesn't have to be concrete.
I was planning to cross brace the posts in both x and y direction. I like the sounds of all three of your options. Extending the foundation posts up into the cabin walls would be easy enough. Can you provide more details of the moment resisting connection between pier and beam, and pier and rock? Would well connected plywood gussets at the post be an option, or are you referring to some type of metal connection (Simpson Strong-tie)?
The stone wall is not an idea that I would rule out, and not something that I had really considered.
My nephew is heading up there to oversee a large construction project, probably for a few years.
Kind of what I figured on tree species, your poplar is probably popple, a common name for aspen rather than our unrelated tulip poplar which doesn't make it that far north. I've seen those names get alot of folks mixed up in trade mags and on the net. Sounds like mostly relatively low strength woods in the northern species group. The jack pine is in the SPF group, a good bit better, you can pull 2-4" thick dimensional design values off the awc.org span calc. I have heavy timber values in the NDS if you need them for posts and timbers. An alaskan chainsaw mill is one way you could convert trees to timbers with something you can pack in. It is probably too labor intensive to make boards that way...but then a remote gang rip saw was a gang of guys over a pit pulling on misery whips, it's all relative. Do remove the bark immediately, the inner bark is the tasty part for bugs to get a foothold, break it down to rough size as soon as possible, wood is anisotropic, it shrinks different amounts in all 3 dimensions. The closer to finish dimension before it starts drying the less it is trying to tear itself apart in the drying process. Large timbers and full logs will check as they dry where smaller dimensions still shrink and distort while drying but check less. How dry is a matter of finish expectations. For rustic I've kicked the birds out and framed the next day, for finish work get it as dry as possible. Dry wood is about twice the strength of green.
Extending posts out of the wall is pretty self explanatory, post frame construction. For moment resisting piers, you're in bridge work, I was thinking of galvy square tube with plates top and bottom. Either a strut from high on the post down to an anchor in the rock in each direction or one from low on the post to out on the beam...get sufficient connection to the wood. Or on top of the post plate have a length of flat platewelded or bolted securely to the post that is sandwiched inside the wood girder, long enough to develop the resistance when bolted to the girder, the plate would run both X and Y in the corners... if you can design something cost effective and easy to produce these folks would be in your eternal debt, and we can talk about going into business. Assuming the steel is too heavy to haul and if you have rocks that can be reasonbly tightly fitted then it won't take too much mortar, I'd just haul the portland and lime and find sharp sand there. Some amount of reinforcing steel to help tie it together would help but if the stone is angular and lays this is optional. With the same portland you can add gravel and sharp sand and make concrete to reinforce sections if you want. Don't haul aggregate if it is that big a pain and if it's local, again how remote is the key, scouting, digging, screening takes time as well. At least make rubblestone corner walls as wide as tall in each direction, anchor to the parent rock and to the girder.
And another thing ;D Setting a floor on top of an unbraced girder is dumb, the girder becomes the next thing that can overturn. Attach the joists inside of a well built, well connected girder, the joists then brace the girder. It does require joist hangers but the advantages outweigh the cost there IMO.
Don_P, I have a sneaking suspicion your nephew will be involved in something like this:
(http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/themes/sp_v1/img/i1k/i1k_2_linepath.jpg)
We noticed the choppers buzzing around all summer and we drive past one of their camps on our way up north.
Thanks for all the timber info. At the very least, I hope to incorporate some timber as a decorative feature. The majority of it will be used for keeping me warm.
You've definitely got me thinking about how I could construct a much more solid pier foundation. I want to stay away from using a lot of steel because I am trying to keep it simple and within my (limited) skill set. Having said that, I am starting to visualize some HSS posts with tee or angle braces that would be connected to a plate bolted to the beams. Anyway, using steel as bracing to achieve some moment resistance in the piers is a good option.
The stone option is intriguing. Building reinforced stone columns with some type of beam saddle at the top seems like something I could pull off. It would also look great (I am not planning to skirt the cabin). I don't think you would want stone columns without rebar. It seems to me that a lateral load (wind) would create tension on one side of the column and the mortar would crack, no? Repetitive cycles could eventually jeopardize the column.
Here is what I had been thinking for a foundation: chip a somewhat flat surface in the bedrock at each pier location (Hilti), drill two or three holes in the rock (again Hilti), blow out the dust, insert rebar into the holes and epoxy in place, set an 8" or 12" diameter x 12" high piece of sonotube (would result in a reasonable volume of concrete that could be hauled in by boat), place concrete into the forms, set a 6x6 post saddle into the concrete, install the 6x6 foundation grade posts, trim posts to correct height, connect beams to posts using something from Simpson (probably two LPC6Z). I was then planning to use 2x lumber as cross bracing (an X in each bay, in both x and y direction). I thought that would give me some pretty good resistance and it would be constructable at my location. Replacing the 2x cross bracing with a steel bracing system would be even better but I am failing to visualize anything simple at the moment (I can think of a few options that could be created in a fab shop). I am assuming that I would have minimal issues with chipping and drilling into the bedrock, but maybe I am being a little optimistic. The 10,000 or more cycles of -40 to +30 degrees Celsius since the last ice age should have at least weathered the first few inches of rock. Any thoughts from the gallery?
Lastly, I was definitely planning to set my floor joists on top of my beams. d* It just seemed so simple. Your comment about it being the next weak point is well taken (and seems so obvious now).
Quote from: Don_P on December 07, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
And another thing ;D Setting a floor on top of an unbraced girder is dumb, the girder becomes the next thing that can overturn.
No one can accuse you of sugar coating it! :)
LOL, I don't pretend to be anything other than a highly opinionated carpenter ;D
Nephew will be part of a mining operation I'm not sure exactly where in the province but it sounded like it's well north. The shield has seen 3-4 billion cycles and is still harder than the hubs. I'm on the next oldest granite and it doesn't seem to have softened appreciably, it's either rotten or as good as day 1. Quite doable but it's not a picnic.
If you have access to good steel suppliers and fabricators they can solve this easily. The resistance is to lateral loading but that is why I'm saying in masonry don't think about columns, think about wall sections, don't think about tension in unreinforced masonry, follow the load in compression at a 45 to ground... make the wall sections from connection above to connection below at least as long as tall, longer is better but it doesn't have to be continuous, and the rock is forming a continuous footing so there is no differential settling to cause a problem. And then add reinforcement, treat it as unreinforced compression only masonry when dealing with rocks and site mixed mud but back it up and hold it together with some tensile capacity.
A short wooden post is pinned at top and bottom, that is a very common scenario here when folks talk of pier and beam and there is no lateral stability in that. Pinning a brace to triangularize it will work if done well, that rarely happens but you have a better understanding of the forces and thus the connections required than most I'd imagine. Running the post from top of wall down to the rock with the wall bracing it has just one pinned connection, design that post as a cantilevered beam and it solves some problems, the issue then is hanging the floor between those posts but there are inturned hangers that will attach to the posts.
Quote from: Don_P on December 07, 2013, 08:20:54 PM
Nephew will be part of a mining operation I'm not sure exactly where in the province but it sounded like it's well north.
Hmmm...I guessed wrong. There are two main reasons to be working in northern SK - the mines or the 300 km transmission line that is being constructed (3 year project).
Back to the cabin foundation. I am still not able to fully visualize the stone corner wall option. So I would build stone-mortar corner wall sections, but how do I connect the beams - beam saddles, create a pocket for the beam to rest? What about intermediate beam supports - build a tee wall (in plan view)?
(http://timbertoolbox.com/sketches/pierwalls.jpg)
Use anchor bolts for the connection to the pier walls. Ideally these are tied to the rebar that is pinned to the rock. A mudsill on the top of the walls with the sill tied well to the floor perimeter beams. I'll often use joist hanger nails to nail straps to the underside of the mudsill leaving the strap hanging out to the outside. When the floor system is complete bend the straps up and tie to the floor rim.
The floor system acts as a diaphragm... a rigid horizontal plate. Push on one side and the force is resisted by the wall sections in alignment with the force. Think about that for a moment and you'll see why, althought there is nothing at all wrong with the intermediate piers being T shaped in plan, there is no need for them to be. For those following along, to bring a foundation like this into code compliance the area in between these heavy piers would be infilled with "curtain walls 4" thick, to help brace and transfer lateral load more effectively.
Don_P, thanks for the great illustration and description. I can now picture the entire system. When you talk about straps, would something like the Simpson coiled straps (CS/CMST (http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/CS-CMST.asp)) fit the bill? For the wall reinforcing, would you do the following: grout the vertical bars into the bedrock, build up the wall to near the top of the verticals, the verticals would be bent at the top prior to installation, tie the L or J bolts to the bent vertical bar, and then finish building the wall to the desired elevation. That is how I imagine it happening. Another option might be to tie a horizontal bar near the top of the vertical bars and then tie the L or J bolt to the horizontal bar.
I'm picking up what you are putting down with the floor diaphragm and the lateral load resistance at the corners. Not all supports need to resist lateral loads. d* This stone corner wall system seems to be a viable option. I am going to let it sink in for a while. It would also look great, provided the stonework was done well. I'm going to have to brush up on my mason skills. I would need to add a column in the centre of the footprint to support the post at the mid-span of the ridge beam.
Just one more question for you. That lady in the illustration, is she free on Friday night??? ;D
LOL, I think her name is Susan, one of the sketchup development team. They are like the quarter in a photograph, good for scale but kind of 2 dimensional :)
Bending a vertical bar to horizontal around the top with the bolt leg hooked under would be very good as far as tieing everything together. Yes I was thinking about simpson straps, either the coil stock or the precuts. I've also used heavy band strapping from lumber deliveries as better than nothing for strapping things together but it is not galvy. For crude but effective there is also slip forming, Scott and Helen Nearing were big proponents of it. Kind of ugly and wasteful of cement but low skill required. It's really not that hard to make a passable stone wall, just keep an eye on plumb as you go.
I thought it might be worthwhile to provide some further information on how the recreational cabin lease process works in Saskatchewan. It won't be of use to most everyone on here but it may eventually help some poor internet straggler (from SK). And others might just find it interesting. I mentioned some of the details earlier - you have to go north of the 56th parallel, lease size is 75' x 150' (0.25 ac), $275 annual fee, etc.
There are a number of conditions for the lease site. It has to be one mile from any highway, other cabins, and any other developments. If you are building near a body of water, you must observe a 30m (100 ft) setback from the shore. Pit toilets are an acceptable means of solid waste disposal. Once you have found a site that meets those requirements you submit an application to the government (Appl for Crown Land Disposition (http://www.environment.gov.sk.ca/adx/aspx/adxGetMedia.aspx?DocID=02caac17-abb0-4332-b44e-25b06c7ba896&MediaID=1752&Filename=Application+for+Crown+Land+Disposition+-+Lease+or+Permit.pdf&l=English)). The application must include a detailed site plan. I have been informed that the review will take anywhere from 3 to 6 months. If approved, a conservation officer will travel to the site with the applicant to verify the information on the application and to complete a metes and bounds (compass) survey. The application is officially approved after the site visit and then you are free to build.
The application form says that you must comply with Federal and Provincial building code regulations. The MOE indicated that they do not complete any inspections after the initial site visit and that there are no building inspectors in that neck of the woods. You can read between the lines. I will be complying with building codes as much as possible. The minimum cabin size is 37 sq. m. I am planning for a 16' x 24' cabin which is 35.7 sq. m. Close enough, if you ask me. Those are all the details that come to mind at the moment.
I like the fact that there must be a full mile between cabins. :)
N of 56 is a long ways north! ;D I spent part of a winter driving a truck between Winnipeg and The Pas (53.something N) and that was a long cold distance. !!! No wonder they don't bother to come and inspect after the initial time. They just want to GPS the spot. :)
How close does the nearest road come to your spot? Sorry if you've already noted that and I missed/forget.
The lake I am on has no other cabins on it. We did find a dilapidated trapper's cabin during our exploration of the area. I have heard that there is a cabin on an adjoining lake to the south and I have seen a few cabins on the lake to the north. On the few trips that we have been up there, we have seen very little lake traffic.
It sure is a long way north. The Pas is a good start, but my location would be well north of Thompson, MB! We won't likely make more than 4 to 6 trips up there each year, for about a week or two each time. Most of the trips will be in the summer but I'd like to make it up there at least once each winter, once it is insulated.
I have already talked to the conservation officer that will be tasked with the site visit and survey. He said the site visits are something that they look forward to every year.
I had to fire up Google Earth to check the distance to the nearest road. It is about 10 or 11 km from the highway as the crow flies. The distance over the water is 10 km. There is a goat trail from the road to the "boat launch." That brings up the topic of logistics and cabin construction. I am hoping to get the lease approval in the early to mid summer and I want to have a weather proof shell by fall. I have a small fishing boat and I am thinking of building a temporary barge using 45 gal plastic drums with a wood deck on top. Six drums will give me enough capacity to haul one ton loads of building supplies. In future years, hauling material in over the winter will become a viable option. Or if things go sideways this summer and I don't get as far as planned, I will use the winter haul option.
cant wait to follow your progress. I'm planning an Algonquin cabin up in Ontario soon. I'll be looking to your advances for tips on my own project.
Sidhewoodsa
It's -27 C outside, -40 C with the wind chill, so I think I will stay inside, stay warm, and do some cabin planning. c*
I have some questions regarding tools and power. I was originally thinking that I would do as much cutting of lumber at home rather than on site. I had hoped that this would allow me to avoid needing a generator and power tools on site (remember, this is a boat access only project so less stuff = better). I am now moving away from that idea and I think I will be purchasing a generator and hauling the necessary tools to the site by boat. I am trying to determine what size of generator to purchase for the project. I do not plan to use the generator to power the cabin after construction. Electricity is not part of the plan for this cabin. I am only planning to power one tool at a time and I think my biggest power user will be my mitre saw (15A * 120 V = 1800W). I found a generator sizing chart that recommended multiplying the running amps by 1.0 to determine the starting amps, and then adding the starting amps and running amps to size the generator. I guess I would need a generator that could handle a peak of 3600 W. I was hoping to be able to use one of those small inverter generators because they are so portable and produce "clean" power. The small inverter generators don't seem to produce 3600 W, and I also realized I shouldn't really need clean power (do cordless tool battery chargers require clean power???). Am I on the right track with generator sizing? I can't find anything used online so it looks like I might need to take the plunge and buy new. Home Depot has a Generac 3250 W (3750 W max.) that gets good reviews and sells for $480 in Canada. I also saw a Champion 4500 W (5625 W) at Costco for $400. Anyone have experience with Champion? Generac seems like a better brand to me.
Now for tools:
I have never tackled a construction project of this magnitude and I am wondering about my power tool requirements. I was planning to use mostly corded and hand tools rather than battery powered tools. All I currently have for battery powered tools is an 18 V drill. I have a corded 12" compound mitre saw and circular saw. I am also planning to purchase a used reciprocating saw (corded). What are some other bigger ticket tools that I should be considering? I want to avoid a compressor and an air nailer for a number of reasons: it would greatly increase the size of generator needed, it is another tool that can malfunction 6 hrs from home, and it is a dangerous tool when you are 2.5 or more hours to a hospital. I will likely rent a hilti hammer drill (electric or gas) when I am doing the foundation work and I will be purchasing a chainsaw for site clearing. Are there any other tools I am overlooking?
I'd get the Generac and yes ~3500 watts is minimum in my book.
A decent, sharp, handsaw for when the power is off and you just have a few cuts. I've run nicad chargers on dirty power, haven't had to with lithium ion's so don't know. I've already had to replace my Makita LIon charger when the fan died, I got their cheaper slow charge non fan unit that seems to be ok.
I like non box store Makita 7-1/4" skillsaws, good power to weight. I've been through 5 or 6, I reuse the parts when one dies and there is a difference inside the Lowes ones. From my experience stamped metal saw shoes warp and cast ones crack where I've never lost one of these aluminum plates.
A paslode cordless nailer would work without a generator but I'd agree you don't really need one, I predate air nailers... I was also the first kid on the block to tool up with them around here, they do speed you up a lot. Far and away the chainsaw is the most dangerous tool. I've lost count of the number of times I've shot myself or been shot, it can be bad no doubt but usually is minor. There are no minor chainsaw accidents. That far out especially, chaps, steel toes, helmet. If you are not thoroughly experienced with a chainsaw develop your skills closer to civilization. Bore cut everything that will take it and be very careful out there.
I prefer Milwaukee Ax blades for the recip saw, I use the 12" ones mostly. Expensive but good and strong, take a licking and keep on ticking, thick enough not to deflect around, same with their Torch line of blades for metal embedded cutting.
flatbar, crowbar, 8 lb sledge, framing hammer, framing square, 6&12" speed squares, 4' level... check it before you buy it and don't go cheap. I've been thru the entire rack at Lowes without finding an all bubbles completely true level before. chalklines (2) and a bottle of chalk. If you are prone to error (yes!) make the primary one blue and the correction one red. 2-25' tapes, 1-100' tape (metal not fiberglass). Multiple packs of pencils and several knives, they never seem to be in the safe place I meant to leave them.
Can you begin taking stuff in over the ice? we're looking forward to a blast from you all in a couple of days, they're predicting -8F which is darn cold for us, we usually don't venture below zero unless someone up there leaves a gate open :).
I'll definitely be getting a blue and a red chalk line!
We left the gate open and now it's too cold to go out and close it. Enjoy the cold weather. ;D
I could start taking stuff over the ice but it will be a number of months before I know if I will be approved for the permit. Future phases of the project (interior finishing, etc) will involve hauling materials over the ice.
I had the Costco Champion 4500 W (5625 W) gas generator, with the battery starter. It was a decent generator.
It was also big, heavy, and noisy and I sold it for a quiet Honda eu2000i, which has served us well to run 13-14 amp power tools one at a time, and charge batteries for tools, but may or may not be up to your power requirements.
There were some very minor problems with the new Champion generator. I have to say that I was VERY impressed with their phone customer service. Very knowledgeable staff, and they walked me through a procedure on the phone, and had parts to me in no time.
I would not hesitate to buy a Champion, especially from Costco, which has a 100% money back guarantee if you are not satisfied for some reason, no questions asked. I believe they have an even bigger Champion from time to time, and also the little Champion eu2000 clones, which are decent as well.
Oh, I just remembered one problem with the Champion that could not be fixed. The tires were a solid material, not air filled, and went out of round almost immediately, due to the weight of the generator. The tire material had no memory, so rolling the generator was a problem. That was annoying because it is pretty heavy, and rolling it freely is important to be able to do.
I am no way as experienced as Don or Don but I would trade one of those 25 ft tapes for a 35 ft. If I were to buy a new nail apron right now it would have suspenders because they get very weighty by the end of the day. Another thing I have found very handy is a tool pouch with a good leather belt. Lot lighter and holds the essentials and easier to get around in tight spots. Pocket for a speed square, nail bag and a tape bag or pocket. Loop for a framing hammer and pocket for a utility knife and a pocket from a pair of pliers and a couple pencil pockets all in one. If you are getting a lot of rain try Black Line Brand chalk. Stuff will not go away. Use only when you do not want a line to go away. ;)
I talked at length with a gentleman up on the Skeena River in BC a couple years ago. He was doing much the same as you are doing. But was having to go through Victoria and the Skeena Indians on a property. He actually was pleased the way it was going. Turned out the First Nations peoples denied they had claim to the property. Pretty unusual for there so he claimed. It to was on a lake. I have wondered many times if he was able to complete his dream!
I have two Honda generators of the 2000 series love them. I can link them and they run the fifthwheel no problem. Pretty easy on fuel - they have a eco setting or switch that helps save fuel as well. They are very quiet.
The generator is a difficult question. For me at least. I worked for years (decades ago) using a typical loud generator when I was making/installing wood playgrounds. I hated it, but needed the power. I really like the Yamaha and Honda inverter generators. I have a 2800 watt Yamaha that is an older, not as quiet as the newer types, but so much better than the loud ones. I also have a new Yamaha 2000i and it is wonderfully pleasant when running. I used the 2800i for my 20 yr old Makita 7 1/4" saw when we built our cabin. Mine is still pretty much original, but it never got the use that Don_P gave his. ;D I also used an 18 volt battery circular saw whenever it could do the job. The 2800i would also run my pancake compressor, but not at the same time as the Makita. The 2000i will also run the compressor or the Makita, but I have not tried any lengthy cuts such as ripping a long 2-by-something.
However if there was no plan to use a generator after the construction was completed I would probably just buy a noisy cheaper generator. But I sure like the quiet. Lots more money though. You could buy a Paslode fuel cell nailer and a Champion generator and have money left over for the price of a 2000i.
I second Don_P's advice on the chainsaw dangers and the accessory protective gear. Protect eyes, ears, top of your head, legs and feet. I use electronic shooting ear muffs as they let me hear the normal sounds around me when the saw is idling or off.
Thanks for the advice on generators and tools. I'll be watching for deals on new or used tools/generators over the next few months. I have a lead on a used Husqvarna chainsaw. It will be a late Christmas present for myself. The safety helmet and chaps will be purchased shortly after.
I have been doing a bit of cabin design work in AutoCAD (I haven't downloaded SketchUp yet but I hope to at some point in the near future). Here are a few exports of my progress. Comments (both good and bad) are encouraged.
First up is an orthographic projection of the stonemasonry foundation (complete with 2x8 sill plate). This is a to-scale and slightly modified version of the 3D rendering that Don_P produced earlier in this thread. I did not include any dimensions on the drawing but at this point I am thinking the max. height would be 3 ft, all sections are 1 ft wide, each corner section would be 3 ft long, and the "columns" would be 2 ft long. The foundation is laid out to be constructable and to support the floor beams. I did not size it the way it is for bearing capacity. For the heck of it, I calculate a bearing capacity of about 360,000 lbs or 180 tons (30 sq. ft of bearing area times an assumed 12000 lbs per sq. ft for crystalline bedrock). If I dump 100 lbs per sq. ft on my 384 sq. ft footprint (38,400 lbs), I have a pretty massive factor of safety.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0PqEpc_satk/UsortuOC2AI/AAAAAAAAAnA/7hFQt_kiFt0/w436-h564-no/stonemasonry+foundation.jpg)
With the above layout the max. span for the beams would be 9ft and the span for the floor joists would be about 7' 10". My tables (CMHC Table 16 and Table 20) tell me that 3 ply 2x10 beams and 2x6 joists at 24" OC should do the trick (S-P-F No. 1 or 2). Not sure if that would feel springy. I might consider 2x8 joists.
I just guessed on the sill plate layout. It seemed to make sense to me. I went with 2x8 so that I could accommodate the 4.5" wide beam and the J bolt that will come out of the stonemasonry foundation. Hopefully the details are visible. I may have to make a zoomed in version of one corner...
I also have some pictures of the floor framing and the floor sheathing. The sheathing pic is really exciting...but it makes for easy calculating of sheathing quantity.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Cua-tBHgFJc/UsorqoHx1HI/AAAAAAAAAnY/A5a5PoIt-NI/w436-h564-no/floor+framing.jpg) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6O2N_a4YhS8/UsorqsGilII/AAAAAAAAAng/PtyAbyiIt2U/w436-h564-no/floor+sheathing.jpg)
Actually, the sheathing pic brings up a point. T&G floor sheathing has the really annoying feature of being 15mm short of a regular 4x8 sheet. Is there any good way to deal with this situation or do I have to change the name of my thread to "15.75x24 1.5 Story Cabin Project" (like Mountain Don)? ???
It actually gets worse than that the more you think about it. The floor sheathing forms the diaphragm we were talking about earlier in the thread. The perimeter framing is the shear collector and the sheathing is the web of that horizontal beam. If you do like most folks and just run a tiny rip of ply to make up the last couple of inches the diaphragm is not connected together, you have a group of individual parts rather than having built a component. Also if you hang a deck off the rim there is nothing tieing the rim back into the floor system for lateral.
That was the reason I cut a little off the width by trimming the joist lengths and then the final sheet of sheathing. I didn't try to calculate everything out to the fraction of an inch so I would not have to trim the sheathing. If I had done that I could have had an extra inch or so of building width.
Here is a more detailed look at one of the foundation corner sections. Does this layout pass the sniff test? I recall reading a comment somewhere that said the anchor bolt must be within 12" of the end of the sill and I have complied with that requirement. Metal strapping with long "tails" will be nailed to the underside of the sill, prior to installing the sill, and will then be bent up and nailed to the floor beam (and maybe even the wall studs, if I plan it right).
Hopefully all of you will be able to make sense of the drawing.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VbRASGIT0zM/Usr2nzXFiiI/AAAAAAAAAps/erIHzbpnglA/w655-h847-no/foundation+-+detailed.jpg)
Remember this is engineer's work, so my sniff is not qualified, I'm simply trying to help make a remote build better. This is not something for others to emulate as the way things should be done. For us rubblestone masonry needs to be 16" thick... which is generally easier to build although it takes more materials. Coursed work can be thinner but I'm guessing you don't have too many flat rocks readily available. I'll often build an inside form to work against and then parge that backside. Yes 4-12" from the sill ends for the anchor bolts, plan your splice points as well. Anchor bolts, no more than 6' apart.
Quote from: Don_P on January 06, 2014, 03:08:44 PM
Remember this is engineer's work, so my sniff is not qualified, I'm simply trying to help make a remote build better.
It is a better sniff than most and it is much appreciated. ;)
Quote from: Don_P on January 06, 2014, 03:08:44 PM
Plan your splice points as well. Anchor bolts, no more than 6' apart.
I assume the above was an "in general" comment, as there will be no need for splices with my short wall sections.
Quote from: North Sask on December 06, 2013, 06:22:59 PM
That magic line is well over 500 km from where I live! I forgive you in advance if you think I am crazy. I am sure there are number of forum members who know exactly why I am willing to go to great lengths for a bit of true solitude.
I know what the area looks like up there, and fully understand why you're willing to drive over 500 km to get to a cabin. Looking forward to following your thread!
Quote from: North Sask on January 06, 2014, 12:15:30 AM
T&G floor sheathing has the really annoying feature of being 15mm short of a regular 4x8 sheet. Is there any good way to deal with this situation or do I have to change the name of my thread to "15.75x24 1.5 Story Cabin Project" (like Mountain Don)? ???
The T&G floor sheathing is really bugging me. Maybe I am over-thinking it. ??? My reference (http://www.canply.org/english/products/csp/csp_unsanded_shg.htm) (see bottom right) is telling me that I lose 15mm (almost 5/8") of the nominal width for each sheet. That will add up to more than 2" for four sheets on a 16 ft wide floor. The loss of width doesn't concern me but my main issue is that the two inches is then reflected up to the gable end walls. I will need to trim the excess sheathing off the wall (it will be regular square edge sheathing) and the stud spacing at one end of the wall will need to be modified, correct? Am I letting my OCD get the best of me?
Why don't they make a 4' 5/8" wide sheet and then cut the tongue and groove into it? That would leave us with a nice 48" face width.
One other T&G question, is it common to rip off the "groove" on the outermost piece of sheathing or can you put the 5.5" wide sole plate over the groove?
OCD? whatever could that be ;D
I have found it's usually better to trim a little off than to try to use every bit. For instance decks framed a couple of inches shorter than a 2' increment can then be sheathed with a common length decking board.
I can only assume the mill equipment is set up at 48" but you'd sure think they could make them stack to 48", very annoying. You can start with the tongue under the wall plate. Use a block of 2x4 scrap about 4' long and a sledge to seat the T&G, with the grooves on the leading edge you can smack the 2x4 hard without damaging the groove, if you lead with the tongue you'll ruin it by trying to drive the 2x against it.
I strongly suggest you do like I did. Yes I trimmed here and there for walls. To me it was no big deal. Some people make a big deal out of using full sheets, which to me makes more problems to solve.
I don't understand why the mills don't make it work to cover an actual 48", but they don't and they don't listen to me.
One other note on T&G sheet goods. The T&G are machined to leave an apparent gap when fitted together. I have know people to use a big hammer and force the joint together. Don't do that.
(http://www.apawood.org/buildertips/images/M300_fig2.jpg)
Not the image I was searching for... the one I wanted shows the "interference" fit of the T&G. Forcing together can split the groove.
Thanks Don and Don. I want to make sure that I minimize waste. If I go through the effort of hauling it 6 hours and then floating it 10 km, I want to bloody well use it on the cabin. :D But trimming a little bit of sheathing here and there is not the end of the world.
I am going to have to get to work on revising my plans. If I ever come across the inventor of T&G sheathing I'm gonna have some choice words.
Just to confirm, I will be able to stick with my 24" OC stud spacing until the last stud bay, at which point I will need to make up the lost width, correct? The gable end walls won't be symmetrical....uh oh, the OCD is flaring up again. d*
Quote from: North Sask on January 10, 2014, 11:19:04 PMJust to confirm, I will be able to stick with my 24" OC stud spacing until the last stud bay, at which point I will need to make up the lost width, correct?
Yes, but the stud bays will not all be equal even if you built a wall framed to be exactly 16 feet wide. You lose something in the width of the end stud bays the way the corners are made typically with three 2x's. If you build the long walls first they occupy 3.5 or 5.5 inches of the 16 ft width, throwing off the symmetricalness. Plus the end bays are different widths from the rest when you make allowances for the first stud being fully covered by the 4 ft wide sheets of sheathing.
Quote from: North Sask on January 10, 2014, 11:19:04 PM
The gable end walls won't be symmetrical....uh oh, the OCD is flaring up again. d*
The ridge will be centered, unless you make it uncentered, on purpose or accidentally. Once the interior and exterior is sheathed and finished only you with a tape measure will know what is under the skin.
~~~~~
You mentioned 24 inch stud spacing. I did that and now that you mention it I remembered there were times I wished I had gone with 16" OC. I went 24 to eliminate some studs, save money. Also, in theory a 24 inch wall has greater thermal performance, a higher overall R-value. In practice it probably doesn't matter much. And of course there were a few pieces less of material to carry or move. On the downside I felt forced to use 5/8 drywall to head off the possibility of wavy walls. It does happen with 1/2". The 24 inch spacing also reduced the number of positions that could be used for electrical boxes without resorting to using "old work" boxes that fit anywhere mid span. I did that in 2 places and it was a PITA. Either way works. Just my thoughts... ???
The first layout pull on a wall is normally either 15-1/4" and then off that 16", 32, 48, etc... or for 24" on center it is 23-1/4" then 2' off that. That allows the sheathing to break on a stud. Well, unless you really want to go OCD and allow for the corners of the sheathing to lap in one direction, then allow for that 7/16 or 1/2" as well. We usually layout to the framing perimeter but you can layout to the sheathing perimeter. I prefer 16" oc but you can do 2' or even 19.2"... How tight a knot do you want to get twisted in? ;D If you are careful with window and door placement you can eliminate some framing by using studs that are on layout. If you really want to cut down on lumber investigate "OVE" framing on the APA website. That rears it's head every few decades but you need to detail it well and I've rarely seen that happen.
Quote from: MountainDon on January 10, 2014, 11:55:07 PM
Yes, but the stud bays will not all be equal even if you built a wall framed to be exactly 16 feet wide. You lose something in the width of the end stud bays the way the corners are made typically with three 2x's. If you build the long walls first they occupy 3.5 or 5.5 inches of the 16 ft width, throwing off the symmetricalness.
The stud bays wouldn't all be equal but they could be symmetrical (mirror image). Here is a plan view of my stud layout that I drew before I realized the T&G sheathing issue. It is 16' x 24' with 2x6 studs at 24" OC. The outermost stud bays in the gable ends are 22.5" - 5.5" = 17" wide.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v-2ExH7UMxU/UtFcjYTtG_I/AAAAAAAAAts/g6CeyC6_2FI/w685-h564-no/plan+view+-+stud+layout.jpg)
I will have to modify this to have one outer stud bay with an opening of 17" and the stud bay at the other end of the wall will be a couple inches narrower (all of the interior stud bays will remain at 22.5" wide). Note that the above pic does not show the the 3 ply 2x6 columns that will support the ends of the ridge beam. Of course those columns will also affect the stud bay dimensions.
Don_P, I am planning to implement a lot of advanced framing principles. Mostly to reduce the amount of material that needs to be hauled to the site, but partly because I like the idea. So far I have read some of Lstiburek's writings on OVE. I will check out the APA website. As you may have noticed, I am rather detail oriented so hopefully I can do justice to OVE. I will put up some of my early framing plans once I make the "T&G edits" to my width.
Going back to the floor/foundation...
Should the middle floor beam be dropped or flush, relative to the joists? I won't be running any utilities, so the dropped beam isn't as appealing/necessary. More hangers would be required for a flush beam (more squeaks?) but I would have direct load transfer from the middle ridge beam column to the middle floor beam. Another minor issue with a dropped middle floor beam is that it would require shorter stone masonry columns and the beam ends would be exposed.
Wood on wood is better construction than hanging on nails, the tie across the building is better, but either works. Blocking over the dropped girder will support the post and is good practice to support the joists against rolling.
Brings to mind a house we worked on after a fly by nighter flew. There were several heavily loaded support posts and they appeared to be sinking into the floor, yup no blocking under them, they were sagging into the subflooring that had nothing under it. When there is a point load over the blocking I paint the blocks red and write "Do not remove!" on the blocks. Another story, some tradesmen are animals.
***I moved the roof insulation discussion (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13489.0) to the General forum. You can disregard this post but I have left it here for posterity.***
I have reviewed some of the old threads on cathedral ceiling insulation and I have reviewed the Green Building Advisor article (http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-build-insulated-cathedral-ceiling) on insulated cathedral ceilings. From that I have come up with three alternative roof insulating scenarios (vented and unvented). It seems like Option 1 and 2 would not meet code as shown below but they are a step in the right direction. Any tips on determining what the insulation thickness would need to be for the setup shown in 1 and 2 (to meet code)? I think it would be appropriate to assume -30 C (-22F) outside and 21 C (70 F) inside as the worst case. I don't really know what to assume for humidity levels. Are there any resources/references for that or can you just use the humidity provided by the weather forecaster? Keep in mind there will be very limited winter use, no showers, no laundry, wood stove heat, and no interior plumbing whatsoever. I want an insulation system that will allow me to keep some heat in the cabin for the occasional winter trip but I also don't want to create a mold/rot disaster.
I am leaning heavily toward Option 1 (or some variation - I could also add rigid foam insulation to the interior of Option 1 or 2). Part of the reason is because the upfront cost would be low because I could/would insulate some time down the road. Option 3 would have a large upfront cost. Option 2 is a slight variation of 1 with a home made rafter vent rather than a factory made vent.
Option 1
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l58Zujn72oc/UuCl5qNOPzI/AAAAAAAAAyM/Xy-j1DUbj-U/w958-h485-no/Roof+Insul+-+Opt+1.jpg)
Option 2
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-R4cYQEnUbd4/UuCl6KnGfSI/AAAAAAAAAx8/ZafeGk1E2Sw/w958-h532-no/Roof+Insul+-+Opt+2.jpg)
Option 3
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wEmZiEhuVg0/UuCl5_7QT_I/AAAAAAAAAyE/27q9sxL0kEY/w958-h489-no/Roof+Insul+-+Opt+3.jpg)
I have a first draft completed for the cabin plans. I will post some of the details when I get a chance. I am struggling with the interior layout. :-\
Here is some of the design work that I have completed so far. It is definitely a first draft and I'm sure it will change many times. I'm not really happy with the layout but it is a starting point.
Gable wall framing - no windows or doors yet. I am currently planning to balloon frame the gable end walls but I am also going to prepare some plans for a platform framed gable wall with the loft sitting on top of the lower gable wall.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SG6cQiFZWCg/UuBm42rT5KI/AAAAAAAAAyU/hLZmKePlTf8/w437-h565-no/Gable+Wall+Balloon+Framing.jpg)
Loft Framing. Nothing too exciting here. There will be a load bearing 2x4 wall supporting the loft joists at their midpoint.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QIkD3tlku2E/UuBm8Z2M3YI/AAAAAAAAAyc/8EpCxU3hIy4/w437-h565-no/Loft+Framing.jpg)
Roof Framing. I have not yet decided what to do for the barge rafters. Advice would be greatly appreciated. The rafter ties and collar ties are visible in this drawing. Rafter ties will be architectural only (not structural). The collar ties will be on every other rafter pair. I don't believe this meets the new IRC but I am comfortable with this decision given the relatively low wind loading at my build location.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8bB-tdXAtMg/UuBm6M7pEoI/AAAAAAAAAys/145fxqnItMo/w437-h565-no/Roof+Framing+-+Plan+View.jpg)
Here is a section view with a bunch of details. Not sure if all the details make sense or if they are proper. Let me know if anyone sees anything scary. Hopefully the finer details are visible.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xhvP-e4ia4E/UuCtKRa7YpI/AAAAAAAAAzo/aNSFCRM1VmM/w665-h565-no/interior+cross+section+2.jpg)
And last but not least, here is version 1 of the layout. Suggestions are strongly encouraged. Note that there will be additional sleeping quarters in the loft. The "X's" between the studs are potential window locations.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sNAVXSqGlao/UuBm4dFDO2I/AAAAAAAAAy8/3b8i_ihAHUs/w437-h565-no/Floor+Plan+-+Main+Level.jpg)
Check your subfascia and fascia detail. I like to have 1/2-3/4" of the fascia dangling below the soffit to form a drip.
Double top plate the gable wall 5.5" below the roof plane and run lookouts on edge from the last inboard rafter to support the overhang and fly rafter.
I'd omit collar ties and run metal straps over the ridge connecting rafter pairs together, more headroom.
If there were a door onto a full length porch where the futon is and if the roof were a simple gable covering house and porch there would be more room in the loft as well, and a place to hang out and keep stuff dry.
Going back to foundation, if you enclose a room between corner, center girder pier and center piers you'd pick up all kinds of lateral strength and have a good lockable generator storage place early on.
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
Check your subfascia and fascia detail. I like to have 1/2-3/4" of the fascia dangling below the soffit to form a drip.
Here is a more detailed view:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fWe-XSLTjsg/Uucq3L1DhDI/AAAAAAAAA1M/jA1rw2anfJQ/w1093-h845-no/Eave+Detail.jpg)
There is 9/16" from the bottom of the sub-fascia to the bottom of the fascia. After I use up 1/4" for the soffit there would be 5/16" remaining for a drip edge. I set it up that way so that both fascia and sub-fascia were flush with the roof sheathing. To get more than a 5/16" drip edge I would have to use a 1x8 fascia board and rip it down, correct?
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
Double top plate the gable wall 5.5" below the roof plane and run lookouts on edge from the last inboard rafter to support the overhang and fly rafter.
That is a good detail. So that would eliminate the rafters at the vertical plane of the gable wall, correct? Two issues come to mind. If I went with an unvented ceiling, the lookouts would be visible from the interior. Seems to me that would look odd. If I went vented, the lookouts would not allow for venting in the interior rafter bay that was adjacent to the gable wall.
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
I'd omit collar ties and run metal straps over the ridge connecting rafter pairs together, more headroom.
Yeah, that is an obvious upgrade. Collar ties are out.
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
If there were a door onto a full length porch where the futon is and if the roof were a simple gable covering house and porch there would be more room in the loft as well, and a place to hang out and keep stuff dry.
I'm not quite sure what I want to do for a deck and for the final orientation of the cabin just yet. I need to give it more thought. I am toying with the idea of a full deck out the front of the cabin (16ft wide section). Your suggestion would be to use the same footprint for the cabin (16x24) but the roof would be possibly 24x24, allowing for an 8 ft covered porch?
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
Going back to foundation, if you enclose a room between corner, center girder pier and center piers you'd pick up all kinds of lateral strength and have a good lockable generator storage place early on.
I think you are subversively trying to get me to comply with the code. :o LOL. I do agree that would make for some great storage. How would I go about connecting this wall to the stone masonry sections? I am envisioning a vertical mud sill that would be connected to the stone masonry with L bolts tied to the rebar, same as the detail for the horizontal mud sill.
Yes that does eliminate the gable rafter. I've had a 1"x5" notch in the tops of the lookouts in the center of that end bay specced for venting. We've also done several that used 2x12 rafters with 2x2's over them to allow for 12" insulation and venting space. In that case it does use more time and materials for the 2x2's but allows all kinds of creative venting not only in that area, by leaving a gap out but also in trouble areas like around skylight bays and venting valleys.
yes I wa thinking a ~24x24 roof would kill 2 birds, giving a large covered porch and giving more headroom in the loft area.
I was thinking of more stonework for the cellar making the walls masonry but I like the idea of treated ply bracewalls... good thinking. Yes a vertical "buck", or mudsill, bolted to the pier would work.
If you bevel the top of your subfascia it'll allow a higher level cut on the rafter and allow more dangle on the fascia. Cut the sheathing flush to the fascia and use a metal drip edge or gutter apron to cover and protect the edge of the sheathing ply.
Quote from: Don_P on January 28, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
yes I wa thinking a ~24x24 roof would kill 2 birds, giving a large covered porch and giving more headroom in the loft area.
I really like the idea but I think I need to pull back on the reigns. I don't want things to get too complicated or expensive. I'm certainly not ruling out the idea but it will go on the "maybe" list.
Quote from: Don_P on January 28, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
If you bevel the top of your subfascia it'll allow a higher level cut on the rafter and allow more dangle on the fascia. Cut the sheathing flush to the fascia and use a metal drip edge or gutter apron to cover and protect the edge of the sheathing ply.
I've been waiting to come across such a suggestion. Both the sub-fascia bevel cut and the flush cut on the sheathing are helpful. Thanks Don!
I am toying with the idea of platform framing the rear gable wall (which will connect to the loft flooring - don't worry, no plan to introduce the weak hinge). The platform framing might be a little easier for me to construct (as opposed to tall balloon framed walls) as it could connect the 24 ft walls and the loft prior to constructing the tall gable walls. Does that make sense or should I just stick with balloon framing both gable walls? I am trying to go through the construction sequence in my head: foundation, floor, 24 ft walls, bottom section of rear gable wall (platform framed), loft (to use as a working platform), columns for ridge beam, ridge beam, rafters, front gable wall. Not sure if that is correct or not. I would still balloon frame the front gable wall. I am wondering if it would make sense to get the ridge beam and columns in place before in-place balloon framing the front gable wall. How does one go about "in-place" framing the front gable wall (rather than building it on the deck and standing it up)?
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
Double top plate the gable wall 5.5" below the roof plane and run lookouts on edge from the last inboard rafter to support the overhang and fly rafter.
Could I not use a single top plate for this wall and put the lookouts directly over the studs in order to stick with my advanced framing plan? With the elimination of rafters at the gable wall plane, the gable wall will be somewhat load bearing. Is it still considered a non load bearing wall in terms of door and window header specification (thinking of OVE principles)? I did a rough calculation that seemed to indicate each stud would carry about 160 lbs (24" x 32" x 30 psf).
It is late and I am not sure I am making sense any longer. Time to go to bed...
Yes, you are thinking correctly and your "raising script" is right on.
some pics
(http://timbertoolbox.com/sketches/22.jpg)
I don't win em all but I did at least get him to put a well braced corner under it ;D. They have since said they wished they did a full crawlspace. I always wonder what to say, I want to say "I've been there, go to school on my mistakes rather than repeating them"
(http://timbertoolbox.com/sketches/26.jpg)
The platform framing for the lower box is in place. The tall built up post for the ballon framed gable is in place with a temporary tie across the end to restrain the eave walls which are braced to the deck, the tall post is tied to that temporary tie and it is braced to the lower deck in the direction of the ridge. The permanent loft post is in place and braced to the deck in both directions. We've built and braced a hoisting tower at about midspan, dangled a chain and swapped off come-alongs to lift the 2 ply ridgebeam from that. It went away and a post replaced it in the final.
One way to do the gable balloon framing is by math :P, another is to set a string and frame to that, my usual way. Another would be to mark the drop along a nice straight rafter and temporarily nail the top plate to that. Then temporarily slide that rafter into place over the wall location and temporarily spike it. Then frame the wall with the top plate nicely held in alignment by the temp rafter. When the ballon framing is done brace it to the floor and slide the rafter back into it's permanent location and attach the lookouts to it, over the wall. Block over the wall between lookouts, single top plate is fine if you maintain alignment... very difficult to do if you are also attempting to place lookouts so that they support roof sheathing edges, you are playing with the base and hypotenuese simultaneously. If there is over 2' of wall above an opening you're supposed to have a header. You can sheath intelligently and call the ply/plate/stud an adequate header for the load. Up is generally higher loading than down around the overhangs. There is no shame in a few hurricane ties between lookouts and wall along the ends, lower gable to eave overhang corner is the weakest corner in high wind, attach it down well.
If you look at the wall right behind me you'll notice a hole in the framing, the front door kings/jacks header and cripples are not in yet. By leaving them out we kept that wall light enough for 2 old guys to lift. Then I built the door framing in place. Michelle and I did that quite often so that the two of us could raise longer wall sections out on the backside of nowhere alone. Just about everything in those pics is non OSHA... YOYO, you're on your own.
Great info, Don_P. I will have to re-read that a few time to get it to sink in.
Is there a house in that mess of scaffolding, bracing, walkways, and ladders??? ;D
LOL, it was a nightmare to shoot the roof ply. I usually bring a bunch of the roof ply in and lean it upright against the loft wall, then lift it up a sheet at a time to someone on the loft floor who is dragging it onto a pile on the floor. Then I go out and they feed me a sheet at a time thru the rafters and I nail them down. The center lifting tower and bracing was gone by then but I leave the bracing in place until the roof is sheathed, or at least until I have a "rack" from eave to ridge on each side. The poor homeowner was working around that end post brace trying to feed me sheets and clocked his head several times.
The light at the end of the tunnel seems to get further away (or at least not any closer) as I get deeper into my cabin plans. d* There seems to be an endless number of small details that need to be addressed. Luckily, I somewhat enjoy the planning work. I also think that having a detailed set of plans will be essential for this project. Running to Home Depot to pick up forgotten building materials will not be an option.
The latest detail I am looking at is the column to ridge beam connection. At present, the beam will be a 3 ply 2x12 (actually, it will be two 12 ft long, simply supported beams - for weight/logistical reasons) and the two end columns will be 3 ply 2x6's. The centre column is not finalized but it might consist of a 4x4 wrapped with four trimmed 2x6's. Or I will find a good tree early in the summer and try to get it peeled and drying for use in the fall.
I am thinking that Mr. Simpson will have something for me. For those of us that enjoy the Simpson flyer or website, it looks like either an ECC4.62-5.5 or an ECC4.62-4.62 with straps rotated 90 degrees would work. The latter would be preferred based on how it would be bolted through the column. I just realized I could rotate the column 90 degrees (2x6's would be perpendicular to the other wall studs), add two layers of 1/2" plywood between the 2x6's to maintain the 5.5" wall thickness, and use an ECC4.62-5.5 (w/o straps rotated 90 degrees). Sorry if that got a little wordy/confusing...it makes sense to me. :o
The built-up column will be hidden within the wall so I could probably build some type of "saddle" with 2x6's on either side of the ridge beam, extending a few feet down the column, bolted in place. This would not likely have near the capacity of the Simpson product but the whole roof system will be held in place by many rafters and by the roof sheathing.
Any thoughts on the home-made saddle approach vs. the Simpson product? Are there other options I am not considering?
Quote from: Don_P on January 23, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
Double top plate the gable wall 5.5" below the roof plane and run lookouts on edge from the last inboard rafter to support the overhang and fly rafter.
Don_P, I did understand what you were describing with this comment but pictures would have been even better! I just came across this thread (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10283.0) you started about three years ago. Great stuff.
I see that you added a false rafter tail in the plane of the gable wall (nailed between the lowest lookout and the sub-fascia). I also had not considered the blocking between the lookouts above the gable wall.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/beyer216003.jpg)
Did you just bevel the lower ends of the double top plate and terminate them in no man's land (in line with the vertical plane of the wall sheathing)? That project had a ridge board. Did you bevel and toe nail the double top plate to the ridge board? I assume it would be acceptable to bevel and toe nail my double top plate to my ridge beam.
I make a wood saddle for the ridge, you can see it in the jungle gym framing pic. Steel strapping would work but if you go to that extent look down and strap the bottom of the post to the floor as well or it's for naught... probably unnecessary.
The bottom of my gable wall plates were just square cut, I believe those hit the bottom plate inboard of the eave wall. i've cut angled blocks to stack the top plates on when needed. The top end of the top plates is bevelled to the pitch and nailed to the ridgebeam... or saddle framing. And yes you are seeing a dummy tail down at the bottom.
The 1st inboard rafter is one of your straightest, select your 4 best for those locations. Notice I've stabilized the rafters and the wall at roughly midspan. Going non osha again, I initially cut the lookouts a little long, install them and then mark the top and bottom ones and chalk a line on the topside. Then climbing the ladder formed by the lookouts and keeping my weight inboard I cut them all in the air to that straight line, then apply the subfascia. This is not safe but creates a dead straight fascia. That is strictly up to your comfort level up there. You can also run a string on the inside of the 1st rafter blocked !.5" in off the rafter and brace it straight to the stringline, then cut the lookouts to actual length and nail them in place, no trimming in air. If the rafter is straight the fascia is straight.
I took a bit of a break from the cabin planning for the last few weeks. I am getting near the end of drawing my plans (now I have to learn to use sketchup and make a 3D model). There have been a few small details that are bugging me so I avoided working on the plans. The most annoying issue is trying to detail the intersection between the rake soffit and the eave soffit. I want to use a detail like the one shown in A.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mGMqmCtMSj0/UyYUr-cLHcI/AAAAAAAAA3w/QB0hLQvKHPY/w620-h845-no/eave+return+styles.jpg)
Also like this:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m1cZwre0NN8/UyYUvfx-NxI/AAAAAAAAA34/gqkNLucrZ90/w634-h845-no/soffit-fascia+details+2.jpg)
I thought that there would be a good reference for how to construct this detail but endless google searches and reading through many framing books did not yield the magic method. A number of the framing books approach the issue but they do not go into any depth (How to Build a House by Larry Haun and Housebuilding by DeCristoforo do the best job). I guess there are many possible combinations of fascia thickness and roof pitch to complicate the matter. I can figure out multiple ways to make this detail work but none of the them feel quite right. With my 9:12 roof pitch and a 1x6 rake fascia I get a 6.9" plumb cut at the rake/eave intersection. If I use a 1x8 eave fascia I would need to rip about a 1/4" off the fascia board to make this work. I was thinking I might install aluminum fascia trim rather than using a painted board. Ripping 1/4" off the fascia board would also require trimming the aluminum fascia. Anyone have any thoughts on aluminum fascia versus painted fascia board. Here is a pic of the detail that I have drawn in AutoCAD. It is pretty difficult to interpret with all the lines...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8duxzAAs6qY/UyYePWkjcrI/AAAAAAAAA4o/wIGUb_r2-bQ/w1093-h845-no/Eave+rake+intersection.jpg)
Here is another view:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8BvEfPLO6-A/UyYePJFWvSI/AAAAAAAAA4g/HAfWEhJ2eWY/w1093-h845-no/Eave+Detail+2.jpg)
Maybe those pics only make sense if you were the one who drew them.
If I use a 1x6 rake fascia then I would use 2x4 lookouts to support my 2x4 barge rafter. This results in a huge drip edge (over 1.5" on the rake and 2.5" on the eave). I am wondering if this would look odd or am I worrying about the small stuff. I could also move the barge rafter down by 1/2" to reduce the drip edge. That would also mean I would have to mess with my eave soffit details. Sometimes it feels like I am chasing my tail with this detail. I could avoid this trouble by using a "pork chop" but I just don't like that look.
That's all for now...I'll come back later with more of my frustrations.
I wouldn't leave 1-5/8 dangling myself, I'd rather rip or pad and get it somewhere closer to around 3/4 or so of hangey down... or under dangle, official terms I'm sure :).
In your pic of the vinyl return notice the eave subfascia forms a flat at the end of the rake plumb cut. They've sort of fudged it out with the vinyl. On a wood soffit I run a flat strip of soffit wood on that level part and my rake soffit wood comes into it, bisect the angles in a miter for that joint. Now imagine if the eave sub were a 2x4 instead of a 2x6. You would simply make a level cut on the bottom of the rake plumb cut and that level portion of soffit would be a bit wider... I'm trying to be lazy and make you draw it, holler if that was clear as mud and I'll reread more carefully and sketch it if need be.
Under dangle sounds pretty good to me! ;D
I have now read your soffit description three times and I just can't work it out. Well, the first time I read it was after a bottle of mead, so that doesn't count. I'm not really sure where the "flat strip of soffit wood" is supposed to go. I don't have my work computer with me so I can't play in AutoCAD. Here is a sweet drawing from Paint:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AZi-whIjRz0/Uy4mDOax_vI/AAAAAAAAA5M/y7XbxyZnz5c/w640-h400-no/soffit+fascia.jpg)
Am I picking up what you are putting down?
Thanks for stopping by my thread! It looks like you are gathering some great information here with wonderful input from both Dons.... what a pair!
your northern adventure strikes a number of different chords for me.. off the grid - :) rather secluded - :) access by boat.. well that is the biggest :) - when I am not on this forum, I am on a sailing one.. can't get enough of being on the water whether in a sailboat or kayak or canoe..
with the effort that you have put into the planning stages, you will be well-equipped to get started this summer. i like your comment that you can't just run out to home depot if you happen to forget something.. the pics of the cabin location that you posted looked inspiring.. how bad are the mosquitoes up there?? we can't wait to see how your project progresses.. jt
jt, thanks for the words of support. You are correct - the Dons are good people.
I have found that the bugs are only bad in the low lying areas where they like to live. The cabin site is up on a rock knob so I am thinking it won't be too bad. I do have future plans to put a screened porch on the cabin if the bugs and I don't get along.
You got it :), tune that level cut on the rake fly rafter up or down according to what you need for the eave fascia. It'll affect the width of the flat strip as you rise but that is about all.
Thanks, Don. I'll draw it up in AutoCAD to make sure I can get it to work. You wouldn't happen to have a photo from a past project?
I haven't found a pic yet that was close enough to see the detail. I'll post one if I come across it.
I just got your comment on my thread and then read yours. Our projects are very similar. We were able to use a 30+ year old Honda generator. 1500w. this powered our Hilti, small compressor, winch, drills etc. one at a time. We built a barge like you are thinking of, you see it in our video. it is 8 50 gallon drums with a deck on top, and it works well as a swimming platform!
good luck with the build, Ill be following along.
A
Time warping back a few months to when you were asking about equipment and safety far from other people I'd recommend getting the best ladders possible and paying close attention to how and where they're set up. I think every close call that I've had that could have been serious has involved a ladder. No worse feeling than stepping off the roof onto the ladder and suddenly having it start to slide down. And there's no better feeling than when it stops 1 inch away from going too far. Both times this has happened I thought the bottom of the ladder had good traction. In one case there was still ice/frost 1/2" under what looked like bare dirt and the other time the ladder was at too low of an angle and the ground was muddier than I thought.
Also get one that can handle a lot more weight than you expect to need. I tried to save money with my first couple ladders and even though I was well under the weight limit they would still start to twist and buck if they weren't loaded evenly or if I shifted my weight. Scary stuff.
A nail gun is extremely handy when working alone. It comes in handiest when you need to hold something in place with one hand and fasten with the other, both of which are hard with a hand driven nail or screw. Not to mention the increased speed when putting in thousands of nails in the wall and roof sheathing. I've never thought they seemed all that dangerous when working alone, though you do have to be aware where your spare hand is when nailing things like studs as if you're aim isn't true or the nail hits a knot it can suddenly come out on the other side where it's not expected and find your spare hand holding the stud in place. Just make sure you're spare hand is back farther than the maximum reach of the nail. I also never put my nailer on "bump" so that I have to depress the tip and pull the trigger each time. That seems to eliminate many of the possible injury scenarios.
A chalk line was my best friend, found so many uses for it. I went through 3 of the regular cheap ones (the strings start to fall apart then bind up the works) before I broke down and spent $15 on an Irwin with a 3:1 crank and super duty string. That lasted much longer and was well worth the money. I'd make sure I had 2 of them at all times in case one breaks.
Spring for a cordless impact driver. Very handy. I finally broke down and bought a little 12v Dewalt half way through my build because I needed something that could fit in tight spaces. Wish I'd have bought it right off the bat. It's been amazing. An 18 or 20v would be better and not much larger.
Alan
Thanks for the tips, Alan. I purchased a new ladder this winter when it came on sale. I have some experience with rickety old ladders so I can empathize with you. I will take your advice with the quality chalk line.
[cool] I have been following your posts with a fair bit of interest. I am a carpenter as well, but I don't do much building far from any major cities or towns. I have however worked as a commercial diver in some remote locations before. The one thing I am curious about is what kind of wildlife is in the area you are going to be building in? I know when I was working in the Territories we had a big electric fence around our location due to bears and some other large animals in the area. I know it is nice to plan on your build, but if you get an unexpected visitor miles from the nearest help, safety is one thing to think about.
As for generators I would seriously read up on reviews on any generator you are considering buying. I bought a generator for my farm and talked to a lot of guys that used those cheaper gen's at work... they all said the same thing to me. You get what you pay for quite often. I ended up biting the bullet because I wanted something for long term that I could rely on no matter what since it is a hassle for me to haul stuff to and from my farm. I bought a bigger Brigs & Stratton gen and have not had any problems with it in 2 years now. My buddies at work told me they have worked with the cheaper gens and found they actually shake themselves apart after a full days use... so they have to be brought into the shop each evening and tuned up and everything tightened back up. You may get lucky and buy a great gen that will work for you for years without any problems, but just be sure before you do buy any gen you read a LOT of reviews before deciding which model to take that far north. trust me there is nothing more frustrating than getting that far out in the field and finiding it breaks down on you and you have to halt production. Being that far from any repair shop or warranty depot might be worth the extra few bucks to get something reliable.
You should also go through every single stage of your project very carefully and think of what tools you will need for every single step. IE: Anchoring holes into bedrock... Generator (for power), Hammer drill (with appropriate sized drill bits - for rebar you choose to use). Power cords (unless you want to drag generator around all day long from hole to hole). A snipe (heavy bar to bend your rebar if it needs to be bent), an angle grinder with cut off discs to cut rebar to appropriate lengths. The hammer drill you will need it you choose rebar larger than 10M will most likely be more than just a cheap hammer drill your next door neighbour uses, because if you drill much with a giant bit using a small hammer drill you will burn it out incredibly fast (I've seen it done and heard the boss scream at guys for burning out his brand new hammer drills). Also take spare bits for drilling. If you have not drilled into concrete (or bedrock) with a hammer drill before you will be amazed at how easy it is to bend or snap off a bit (I see new apprentices do it far too often). If you plan on cutting any rebar on site the easiest way to do it is with an angle grinder (you dont need a big one but you will go through a lot of cutting discs). If you use an angle grinder you will definitely need safety glasses and a full face shield (nothing like getting grit and metal sparks in your eyes far from anywhere). You could use a hacksaw if you want cheap and light tools, but be prepared to take a long time and work hard if you go that route. Once you ahve holes drilled out you MUST blow the dust out of the hole so some sort of blower to blow the holes clean (most hammer drilles come with a blower of some sort). If you think of skipping the step of not blowing the holes out (I've seen that done far too many times), your hilti adhesive will not bind to your hole and your rebar can normally be pulled out of the hole with the adhesive strongly stuck to the rebar by hand (I've done it myself to a few apprentices). You can use anything from a cheap snot sucker for babies noses to a hand pump from Hilti to blow the holes out as long as it cleans out the dust from the hole. A round wire brush also helps to loosen up dust that is stubborn when you are blowing out the holes (like a giant pipe cleaner). If you are going to use rebar for any reinforcing while you build you will need some tie wire and linesman pliers to tie it all together (cheap pliers work just as good as fancy Klein pliers when you are out in the bush... just less cash to drop if they get lost out there).
Once you have your holes drilled you will need a special mixing caulking gun if you use Hilti adhesive (and buy spare tips). A lot of apprentices I have seen have a very bad habit of drilling one hole, clean it out, add adhesive to hole then stuff rebar in and move on to the next hole. By the time the next hole is ready for rebar the adhesive will be set in the special mixing tip and it is junk. So either drill several holes in one shot and clean them all out THEN pump adhesive into one hole, add rebar then go to next hole pump adhesive add rebar... etc, etc, etc. Do enough holes that you use up all your adhesive with one tip, or just be prepared to go through a lot of tips. If the temps are cold then be VERY sure you have cold weather adhesive (I know Hilti makes a special cold weather adhesive but can't remember the name off handy - I think it is Hilti Ice).
I hate to be the party pooper, but I just hate to see all your planning going into your plans and blueprints and once you get up there you find yourself missing something or you have the wrong product. I would seriously suggest you go as thoroughly through every step in your building process and think about every possible step to get all the tools you will need. A few basics I would suggest are below.
-chalk line (with some spare chalk) - speed square - framers square - 25 ft tape measure - 100 ft steel tape measure (handy for checking for square on your floor and walls where a 25 ft tape would be short). - nailgun / hammer (be prepared for a sore arm if you plan on pounding nails for days on end) you can buy all electric nail guns now if you dont want to drag a compressor up there DeWalt makes on that uses rechargable batteries (probably other companies by now also) - nail bar - caulking gun (to apply PL adhesive on your subfloor, accoustical sealant inside when you come to that stage, etc) - Work knife with spare blades (Olfa has tons of models available at Home Depot/Ronas etc) - skill saw - tool belt - whisk/corn broom - jerry cans for fuel (generator) - linesman pliers - pencils (use pencils for marking not pens/markers - you can't paint over pen marks or markers they bleed through the paint - I've sen that done also) - nails assorted sizes (for framing and sheething your walls/floor) - Hilti epoxy or an adhesive to anchor rebar to bedrock(with the proper caulking gun to use the epoxy) - angle grinder with zipcut disc's (or a hacksaw with a spare blade or two) - PL subfloor adhesive - spade (to mix concrete if you use any for your main support) - wheelbarrow or some container to mix concrete in - pail (to haul/hold water for your concrete while you mix it up)
The one thing I would seriously suggest is to download some youtube videos or videos to show how to do certain parts of your project onto a cell phone or laptop. So if you are stuck and forgot how to do something you can break out a video and see an expert show you step by step how to do it right. If you have a generator up there you can recharge batteries on it if need be... plus at night you can always relax by a camp fire and load up pics onto a laptop/cell phone of your project while you eat. Trust me, if you forget to make sure your walls are square before you stand them it can be quite a pain in the back side to try and fix it once you have the wall sheeted (a LOT of new apprentices do that if not properly supervised on normal sites).
I really do wish you the best in your build but hope you have someone to help you think of everything before you start hauling things up there. I'm sure some guys could wittle my list down a bit, but standard construction sites do have a ton of tools they use every day. Not to mention a good laser level can really help you get your structure up plumb and level, but you could get away with a 6 ft, 4 ft, and 2 ft level with a long board that is straight.
Hey CarpenterCanuk,
Thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate the advice. I'm sure there will be a few hiccups along the way due to the remote location but I have started making lists and I will be checking them twice. I want to keep the backwoods trouble shooting to a minimum.
I have given some thought to downloading how-to videos, just in case. I also have some good books on masonry and framing that I will be taking with me. I guess a rewarding part of the experience will be overcoming the challenges that pop up during construction.
Hi North Sask, I'm from Saskatchewan and living in Texas for awhile. I have canoed and traveled North of La Ronge on camping/canoeing trips quite a few times. I'm in love with that area and would seriously like to pursue what you are doing. Would you be able to help me with some info and guidance in how to accomplish this?
Thank you,
Dan M
p.s. I know you have not been on here for awhile and your probably in the wilderness now building :)
:D
North Saskatchewan, how is your Cabin coming along. Was up in your woods by Churchill River, near Pelican Narrows. Fantastic Walleye. Caught 5 walleye (4 lb average) in 6 casts. 120 fish in one day. Kept 4 for eating. Catch release great. Any pics of your project. 8)
Cheers
PB43