Our client took some cell phone pics while we were working on their porch posts. These were from trees that were cleared for the homesite.
Might be easier to go backwards. This is the finished product;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/Picture8.jpg)
This was taken right after we stood the post and beam assembly;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/porchposts.jpg)
This picture is showing a post's tennon being slid thru a 6x6 bolster and into the 6x8 carry beam. the bolster is pegged to the tennon for uplift, the carry beam is lagged from the topside to the bolster. Joints in the carry beam are made over the post with the beams fitted around the tennon to restrain twisting, then 2 lags down to the bolster to secure them.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/postassembly.jpg)
This is a day or two later from the diagonally opposite end as the first picture above showing the 10' porch... that is a nice space.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/shingles.jpg)
This one was from a good bit earlier but showed how to lift a ridge without a crane. In this shot the two of us had just raised the two 18" x 28' lvl's into place. At the center of the ridge there is a pair of built up and braced 2x6 posts about 24' tall with a header of 2x's. A chain is wrapped around the header and come alongs were attached to the chain at various heights to lift beam, balanced from near it's center.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/26.jpg)
Nice looking cabin! [cool]
Nice work!
Thanks,
When I looked back at it the bottom picture shows something else. The long diagonal brace that plumbs the tall post under the ridge at each end was plumbed not with a level but by using Pythagorus. We made marks on the post and floor and measured the length of the diagonal when we nailed the brace. It does alot better job than trying to use a 4' level on a tall post.
The first pic shows the 12x16 root cellar/basement. That big pier can absorb alot of lateral force and is a good place for plumbing too.
Nice looking cabin indeed! That is a great little root cellar also, very functional idea. [cool]
Thanks for those pics DonP, especially of the ridge beam. That's the size beam I need and your solution for a crane-free lift solves that problem for me. Do you have a guesstimate on the weight of each beam?
frazoo
235.2 lbs...give or take a staple or two ;D. 18" LVL's weigh about 8.4lbs/ft. We were fortunate in that the delivery truck could reach the loft floor and set the ridge up there. The second post of the tall 2x6 "tower" was built after we slid the LVL's to the centerline of the building then the 2x header and chain were attached.
If he hadn't been able to get the lvl's up to the loft with the truck we were going to brace the tower better and drag the beams in from the gable end and slide them up to the loft first, then rerig and do the final lift. I've drug in and lifted a much heavier green cypress 6x14 ridge that way. A site built gin pole can also lift the beams from just outside the wall up and onto the loft floor.
I probably should post a safety warning here if you are going to do this. A come along is not intended for overhead lifting. I was injured once when the catch pawl did not fully engage. I went for the next stroke, the pawl bent and the load dropped. I'm pretty sure this was a come along I had already "tweaked" in a hard pull. Now I buy new come alongs when doing this, they're cheap, go slow and check the pawls' engagements each and every stroke.
There is nothing faster and probably safer than the crane but don't forget cathedrals were built without modern cranes. I have a picture of Biltmore estate under construction, there are 4 large gin poles working, in a drawing of a medieval barn raising they show 2 gin poles lifting a large timber bent. I worked for one old timer that said you just have to outsmart the timbers.
Just a quick note on come-alongs. I've been using these for years https://www.wyeth-scott.com/index.asp (https://www.wyeth-scott.com/index.asp)
Very well built and worth the money.
RIjake, those are awesome power pulls. I've borrowed one before and wondered where it came from, thanks for the link.
We're working on another set of porch posts, I thought you all might enjoy a few pics of the progress so far.
We harvested about 90 logs from the jobsite, I called a local portable bandmill come in and turn them into posts and beams, sawing 1" thick beards for trim on the way to those timbers. 70 horse turbo diesel, this thing made square ones out of round ones fast!
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb1.jpg)
We brought the timbers home to the shop and began boring and whittling;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb3.jpg)
This is another shot of the boring machine in use... well over 100 years old and still drilling true;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb2.jpg)
The top bolster and a brace being fitted;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb4.jpg)
Getting ready to fit bolster to post and braces
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb5.jpg)
And waalaa, about 10 more to go;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb6.jpg)
Quote from: Don_P on November 07, 2010, 10:20:29 AM
We brought the timbers home to the shop and began boring and whittling;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb3.jpg)
This is another shot of the boring machine in use... well over 100 years old and still drilling true;
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/pb2.jpg)
Where'd you come up with that boring machine Don?
Nice work.
Thanks PEG,
It's a short long story but I'm babysitting it. A timberframer was needing money and had it for sale, he didn't really want to part with it. I told him I'd pay the asking price and he was free to buy it back in the future. I'll be happy either way and he knows it's being taken care of and being used for its intended purpose. This one is a Millers Falls machine, one of the better machines made. If you ever want one pm me, I know a gentleman that refurbishes and sells old TF tools. Got a package of framing chisels and a boring machine bit due this week.
My slick and shipwright adz's are both "on loan for life" from a client I've done a lot of work for thru the years.
I was just looking longingly at the Barr corner and swan neck chisel's , so sure I'd love to have a chance to look at your friends offerings , hopeful the money will be available when he has something he'd like to part with.
I don't do a lot of big timber work , but I do what comes my way and it's nice to be tooled up for the work.
Some of the lastest work,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct2720104.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct2720105.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct27201010.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct27201011.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct222010.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct2220101.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct2220101.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct2720103.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct720101.jpg)
No order to the photo's sorry.
Thanks for the offer to be in the loop!
Sweet, nice work. I like the knife plates, stainless, holy buckets! I see you go for the exciting way of mortising for those too. I'd like to get a chain mortiser at some point, they do a good job on that cut as well. Quite a foundation, what is the structure going to be? Our job also has a fair number of eave brackets like the ones on the house in the background. I can usually do that size mortise and tennon work with a mortiser in the drill press and the radial arm.
I'll dig up a link and mail it to you for the antique tools.
This is a supplier of TF and log building power tools;
http://www.timberwolftools.com/
I had a bruzz, corner chisel, at one point. It seems to have grown legs. I'm not sure how much I miss it, they are a pain to sharpen.
It's nice to be looking over the shoulder of a couple of real craftsmen. :D :D :D
Quote from: Don_P on November 07, 2010, 06:19:28 PM
Sweet, nice work. I like the knife plates, stainless, holy buckets!
Those are purty , to bad you can't even see them now that the posts are up .
I see you go for the exciting way of mortising for those too.
I made a plywood jig and router-ed a 1/2 wide slot as deep as my 1/2 shank spiral router bit would cut , using my plunge router. It made the whole process much easier than just plunging in the chain saw bar.
I'd like to get a chain mortiser at some point, they do a good job on that cut as well.
Ya one of those would be nice, the ones that look up to the task are way to spendy for me!
Quite a foundation, what is the structure going to be?
A trellis , it gets 3x8 purlins lap jointed over the top about 18" OC. I cut one today to do a test fit. The beams in the photo also get a copper cap over them before the purlins go on. The Copper should be done this week coming up. I'll post a photo of the thing when I get it done.
So the whole concrete poured area is a big garden really!!! Cha , ching!!!! :)
There's a bit more to add at the top of the hill by the garage sort of a "gate" to the pergola / trellis , then you get a peek at the house once you get into the pergola proper. Nice folks , great job . My company remodeled the house about ten years ago.
Our website:
http://kreiderconstruction.com/
Our job also has a fair number of eave brackets like the ones on the house in the background.
I can usually do that size mortise and tennon work with a mortiser in the drill press and the radial arm.
The ones on that house more than likely are bolted together. Before I came on board they really didn't have a carpenter who could do the joinery I like to do, or at least no one suggested the old fashion / real deal way of doing it. At least that's what I think the reason was. When I suggest these type things the boss man is all for it. Pretty cool place to work, best job I ever had , no kidding, it's sweet most of the time.
I had a bruzz, corner chisel, at one point. It seems to have grown legs. I'm not sure how much I miss it, they are a pain to sharpen.
The Barr corner chisel looks sweet , I can put up with the pain of sharpening, I think , at least I'd like to give it a try anyway! c*
http://barrtools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=BT&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CSC
(http://barrtools.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/CornerChisel.jpg)
Quote from: John Raabe on November 07, 2010, 07:11:57 PM
It's nice to be looking over the shoulder of a couple of real craftsmen. :D :D :D
Thanks John , Don does post some nice work , AND he knows the code book better than most guys.
He's a nice addition around here that's for sure, great knowledge resource, as well as a fine carpenter!
Thanks both and backatcha,
That prerouting tip just made my day [cool]
Quote from: Don_P on November 07, 2010, 10:51:32 PM
That prerouting tip just made my day [cool]
Maybe a tough job pretty easy and insured some "accuracy" , with a chain saw accuracy is a relative/ subjective term. Even for Glenn
[chainsaw]
I could see and heard from the Project Manager that he'd ruined a few post bottoms when he was attempting those cuts. I told him my plan to use the router and jig and he said , "Jeesh that's a great idea!"
Cabinetmaker thinking maybe , it seemed like a simple idea to me ;)
That Cedar was / is something pretty special , not all of it's free of heart but most of it is. And I worked my a$$ off getting it. It was cut up river it Day Creek, near Sedro Wooley by Wild Ass Custom Milling website:
http://wildasscustommilling.com/.
They have some logger friends that clue them in on great logs , they call them "Buckskins" that have been left behind by commercial loggers.
Anyway it was cut with a Lucas "swing mill" a portable circular saw mill, but the people and I didn't like the "look" or texture of the swing mill.
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct820108.jpg)
So I called the guy who cut my Pine back last January , and he'd sold his mill but hooked me up with a guy here in Oak Harbor , Whidbey woodworking and Custom milling / http://whidbeywoodworks.westcoastlands.net/services.html. So Jeff re-sawed the cants for me, on his Timber King band saw.
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct820102.jpg)
We had to re-saw a curved Cedar beam as well that got made smooth instead of band saw textured,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Oct1620103.jpg)
we fed the curve thru the saw as the head came past , on that table we made out of high density PB.
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June22010005.jpg)
Looked nice , that last shot is of the re-done entry at one of the projects I posted about a year or so ago.
The one with the curved fake beams in the great room ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Mar12201013.jpg)
Old "look" entry , with standard beam, and if you look close some double beam look the Architect drew up. The curved beams a big improvement
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Feb1120102.jpg)
I'm also working on the curved ceiling with a groin or double barrel vault ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Nov420101.jpg)
The 90 deg. turn ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Nov420104.jpg)
They decided they want it to look like a boat on the 3rd floor, the ceiling will be Hemlock T&G 1x4 , with Sapelle bands about 3 ' OC.
Interesting work, when you can find it! The windows get a false valance to hide the roll-up blinds and to allow for a arched or curved head piece on the rectangular windows. PITA working thru the details of making it all work together , but we're getting there.
Wow, some beautiful work, you guys!
Thanks Sassy. Might as well finish what I started here ,
Copper in place ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Nov1520101.jpg)
Purlins in place,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Nov1520102.jpg)
We may add copper caps to the purlins as well, or the owner may do it. Might add some years to them.
Sorry for piling on your thread Don :-[ But it seemed to fit.
Looks awesome PEG, and you're not piling on.
You mentioned it being a shame the knife plates were hidden. My homeowners commented that it was a shame nobody would see all the mortise and tennon work. Oh well, we know :)
Actually I had meant to post another tangent thought to this thread but kept forgotting.
Awhile back we were talking about grading and I mentioned that knowing which way the tree was standing is sometimes useful. Porch posts is one of those situations. If all else is equal I stand the tree upside down, roots up crown down. If you look at how branches grow from the tree, the grain of and surrounding the branch goes down into the tree. If the timber is stood upright, when the wood checks or if there is any punkiness in the knot, there is an invitation to carry water deep into the timber. Upside down it directs the water out. Just another trick for the tool box.
Everything looks so great PEG and Don
:)
Don_P
QuoteIf all else is equal I stand the tree upside down
Hey Don, would that advice apply to red cedar trees left in the round and left untreated that had some taper, like from 8" dia. to 6" dia.?
It would look a little funky, but if they lasted longer.....
That's where everything is probably not equal... visually a natural post looks better rightside up to me. I flipped one the other way this morning because it hid more waney edge... so it's just one more thing among all the choices. A cruck was often upside down to give cleaner wood to do the majority of the notching in.
Thanks Don for your reply. I kind of anticipated the answer to the direct question, but I like to read your responses because you usually give additional info. and I was not disappointed. ;)
You are a valuable resource on this board. Thanks.
Wow, is this house taking forever, but we're having fun ;D
We got the heavy timber trusses set in the greatroom ceiling a week ago
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/Beyer8_15_11001.jpg)
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/Beyer8_26_11012.jpg)
and started setting the porch posts this past week. We fabbed them in the basement garage,this is a corner post being fitted (PEG, new toy, that's a Makita chain mortiser with the yellow cover on the floor, big labor saver)
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/bugs6-27-11014.jpg)
We now needed to get them up to the porch a floor above. At the rate we are able to set and brace them I really didn't want to bring a crane in and the site wouldn't allow us to reach where we needed to with a Lull so we decided to go manual. Probably not OSHA but it works if you are careful. We bolted the scaffold together, counterweighted the rear, clamped and chained an I beam on top and hung a chainfall from it. Lift and roll across the deck and set the posts over 1/2"x4" knife plates that will be bored and pinned through the posts. This is the first couple of posts of 12 that will support the front porch roof.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/beyer9_1_11005.jpg)
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/beyer9_1_11011.jpg)
Nice new toy :) Lookin good Don!! [cool] Where there's a will there is a way!! Rome wasn't built in day eh :)
What are you using , again if you've mentioned it all ready, for the post and beam stock? Looks like White Pine, pretty nice stuff to nice tight knots!!
It it's Pine the smell must be amazing in the temp shop!!
Yup, the interior timbers are eastern white pine, they came from a large local sawmill/ log and timber home company and were kiln dried and in house graded. The exterior stock was from the oak trees I cleared on site. We had done all the oak work in the garage before moving upstairs to the pine, it was like moving from cutting iron to soap. The smell is nice, especially compared to the heavy acid smell of oak. A friend has been doing a porch in black locust timbers. We were talking a few weeks ago, nice stable and strong but his elbows were screaming. Michelle was doing my prep and mortising while I fitted up. After several days she was hurting and asked if there wasn't a power tool to cut the mortises... can a guy ask for more ;D
Quote from: Don_P on September 04, 2011, 05:27:33 PM
Michelle was doing my prep and mortising while I fitted up. After several days she was hurting and asked if there wasn't a power tool to cut the mortises... can a guy ask for more ;D
Michelle is your wife??
I love the smell of Pine, Red Oak is a endurance think, like you said sour acid smelling stuff. Red Cedar makes me sneeze , not uncontrollably just a nuisance thing .
26 years plus a few more and truly blessed, we've worked and played together for most of it.
This was a mixture of several species of red and 2 of white oak, I'm usually ok unless it's bacterially infected... I hate cat pith oak :P We did a run of western redcedar log homes and both ended up with nosebleeds, still pretty sensitive to the fine dust from it. One friend cannot be around it or teak. I can feel locust but some folks cannot be near the dust. I've only worked with one person who sensitized to pine and that was pretty mild.
Incredible work guys
I took the camera to work today, we got the front porch roof on. In the far right rear in one pic you can see one of the stone columns rising for the back porch.
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/Beyerporch101011003.jpg)
(https://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x109/windyhilll/Beyerporch101011007.jpg)
A magnificent porch!