CountryPlans Forum

Does anyone know anything about this company?

Their website looks interesting.  It seems like a good option for the build-it-yourselfer.

Oops!  Forgot to include website.

http://www.firstdaycottage.com/

I'd found it, then went to look for a book so you posted the URL before I got to!

Hmm.  Wasn't David Howard one of the people Alex Wade really admired?

Shipping will kill you if you live out of their free shipping range.  Maybe even if they are still (as they were through February) "up to" $500 dollars off the shipping for a full load (not quite sure what that means.

And I still don't do roofs!  Especially two story roofs (over a walk-out basement)

"Full load" usually means "full truck load".

So hire the roof done already! ;)

Only 50 miles beyond free shipping..... :o  Wonder if this is the real deal.  The universal cottage this way would be sweet for us.  Anyone else scared by the sketched floorplans?

Firstday wants their MONEY in full...no way to inspect or choose any of the materials....and....they appear to be a broker....rather....than a FULL service dealer....I received a couple of samples of their drawing....pretty bad...when compared to JOHN"S...their concept is Kewl....but....VERY limited to the number of changes you can make....

This isn't my cup of tea!  JOHN has taught me well!

Hmm.  I thought that the floorplan was completely modifiable, not to mention custom for each client.  Didn't they say that on the site?

Here's the conversation that was going on in August of 2004:

http://www.countryplans.com/bbs/messages/6913.html

Thanks for the link.  

I've emailed First Day and asked if there are any First Day houses near us that my husband and I can see.

If we like what we see, we may take a trip to NH to inspect the facilities, or we may order their garage kit as a trial run.  My husband desparately needs the storage space for his business supplies anyway.

Again, thanks for the input.  At this point, we are interested in researching all options.

I'm pretty familiar with FirstDay, as we've been considering them for a few years.

No, they are most definitely not a broker. They are a company started by an architect with a love for timberframing, but who wanted to bring timberframing to a price that more people could afford.

I'm not sure where you got the impression they are brokers or that the floor plans are not changeable? That's completely incorrect. Actually, each kit is custom-designed for the individual client by an architect, all included in the kit price. He has designed the building system so that owner-builders with little experience can build their own house. It's really a great concept.

The prices are pretty good, but all in all, we decided we could do better buying materials locally. Otherwise, we would have used them.

Thanks for that firsthand knowledge, mindyc. :)

Well, after seeing the website I was pleasantly surprised when the info packet arrived today.  There are three full color postcards with pictures from the website.  There was a glossy black and white brochure showing floorplans and actual houses built from them.  There was an 8-1/2 x 11 black and white brochure with a bunch of floorplans and descriptions.  They have some interesting floorplans and details.  Of course now I am totally unsure ??? if I go this route or back to the 2 story universal....damn you architects with your great houses....  :P

Visiting one or more real First Days will be very important.   I had a chance to visit with an owner-builder in eastern Idaho about two years ago.  This fellow was a school teacher who completed the entire project in one summer (I think he subcontracted the plumbing and electrical).  He had no prior building experience.  

I thought his house looked a bit plain, but almost charmingly so.  Still, I think this plainness (actually, a better word would be "rough" or "spartan") was wearing on him.  He seemed a bit tired of the overwhelming amount of wood in the interior.   I don't think he realized that this could easliy be remedied by the use of plaster, sheetrock, or even the judicious use of paint.

Another of his complaints (having lived with the house for a year) was the lack of any protective and aesthetically pleasing roof overhang.   To keep things simple, the First Day eliminates overhangs.  Perhaps this style is common among stoic New England houses.  But, in sunny and snowy Idaho (and in rainy climates) roof overhang is functionally very important).  

Not wanting to pay freight across the US (almost half the purchase price of the kit -- and this was before the recent fuel price increases), I ended up borrowing some of the concepts when building my first out-building --  a 10x12 shed that houses my tools and power inverters.   I modified the rafters to provide modest tails that overhang by several inches.  

In the end, the First Day is an honest basic structure which can later be expanded and trimmed-out as you may desire.  It definitely has a distinctive look and is assembled in such a way as to make it easy for amateurs to perform their own construction.  

Oh, one other thing more than one First Day builder mentioned to me:  disregard any suggestion that you should only use a hammer.  Purist zeal won't sustain most of us beyond the first floor framing.   Buy a nail gun.

Overhangs.

Hmmmmm

Cob and strawbale people, not to mention those not wanting lots of solar heating in the summer, people who want screen porches and covered patios all love nice big overhangs (I qualify in several of those categories).

But remember:

some of the really inexpensive houses survived Hurricane Andrew precisely because they had no or minimal overhangs.--wind couldn't get under the overhangs to lift up the roof.

Pays your money and takes your choice!

Conohawk,
Thanks for the insight and the inside scoop.  I have been living in a cottage with knotty pine cathedral ceilings, unfinished pine window trim and standard drywall.  The juxtaposition of drywall against the wood is nice, and I bet with wood floors it would provide a nice breakup to the monotony.  In my warped mind I see 4 foot high drywall wainscot-style with a nice top cap to make shelves against the recessed interior walls.  And since I can do anything in my mind since it doesn't cost any money, some recessed lights in the right places to bounce up against that wood wall.  

I'm not sure why people want to have little or no overhangs.  My guess is: contractors.  I plan on having nice overhangs on whatever I build.  Amanda, you may have hit the nail on the head.  The Cape and Colonial with little or no overhangs are everywhere around here in hurricane, blizzard, and Nor'easter  territory; perhaps no overhangs are done for good reason much like the saltbox purpose...  But does this construction practice make sense today still?

No tornadoes or hurricanes or Nor'Easters?  Wood is better than it was 150 years ago?

I don't think so.

But I still want the screen porch and the protection for my walls.

What?!?! I don't understand what you are trying to say...

Here in Cape Cod we have hurricanes, blizzards, and Nor'easters...in other words lotsa wind.  My guess is that maybe the old houses built here did not have overhangs for the purpose you mention...wind couldn't get up under the eaves and blow the roof off.  As I understand it, the winds and snow is one reason for the saltbox construction (along with the fact it is an easy addition to a colonial).  That short side of a saltbox got pointed right in the direction of those nasty winter winds so they went blowing right up and over the roof.  The houses were alot shorter inside as well because people were shorter on average, some of the doorways in the old homes here like the Kendrick house from colonial days, require me to duck to get under them.

Of course wood is inferior to the old growth wood, it is less dense but with today's fasteners are there less worries about roofs blowing off?  Should it still be a concern?  Are the large eaves gone because it is easier and cheaper to omit them?  Since I am not a contractor or an architect, I don't know the answer...just one of those things that hit ya and makes you go "hmmmm..."

Eaves and how long they are is more a style choice than a practical option these days. Metal strapping between the roof and walls can protect the roof from lifting off in high winds.

See Mike's cabin: http://www.countryplans.com/cowan.html

That said, the wide eaves and extensions (popular in craftsman style houses) cost more money to build. They do protect the siding somewhat from rain and can be used for sun control.

Examples of lowest cost structures almost always have a clipped eave like this...


or this...


As long as the water is carried away properly and doesn't run into the wall, these types of houses can live a long, normal lifetime. (The gutters on the upper shack look like they need some maintenance  :D)

And now we know, thanks John! ;D

$42,600 + $1.50 per mile shipping....For a 26 x 40 salt box..
That seems like way too much money for what you get.. Pretty much just dried in right?

A Kit Does Not Include:
 Foundation*
Plumbing* (No toilets, sinks, baths or water heaters)
Electrical*
Heating*
Kitchen Counter top
Appliances
Paint or Stain
Other Small Miscellaneous Items (some screws or nails, caulking, etc.)
 


A Kit Does Include:
 
Instructions & Plans

Posts & Beams

Sheathing & Decking

Foam Insulation

Roofing & Siding

Windows

Interior and exterior doors

Nails

Building Wrap

Interior Partitions

Kitchen Cabinets

Jimmy, that's been my conclusion on every house kit I've looked at, from all the various manufacturers... though the extra money is obviously paying for the labor needed to get the kit together.

These are cheap for post and beam kits!  Most of the kits don't include half of what these have.  I'm sure you could probably purchase all the components separately for a cheaper price, but you are paying for the complete design of the house as well as how the house goes together.  You are also paying for the system that would allow someone with no experience in building at all to just purchase a kit with instructions and have at it.  Dried in in this case is pretty much finished, the interior walls are complete when dried in since there is no drywall and the floors are complete since there is no plywood.  

>$42,600 + $1.50 per mile shipping....For a 26 x 40 >salt box..
>That seems like way too much money for what you >get.. Pretty much just dried in right?

No, it's not just dried in. It's nearly complete. It's most of the interior finish as well, including floors, interior walls, insulation, kitchen cabinets, etc. The only interior finish you must add is countertops (because it's too hard to ship that), plumbing fixtures, and appliances. The rest is stuff that you would have to do locally, no matter what, like foundation and electric. Also, the saltbox is the most expensive. The original is, what?, 10 or 15k less than the saltbox.

Now compare that to other kit houses, most all of which are truely only dry-in. No interior walls, no cabinets, no interior doors, etc. The price is pretty good, I think, if you're looking for a timber-frame kit home. Like someone else said, you're also paying for the system that allows a novice to build their own timberframe home.

Of course, all that said, you can still do much better buying materials locally, if you have the confidence to build, without a system designed for someone with no experience.

What is your time and running around worth?  You can either spend time builiding the kit or running to the lumberyard to get materials.  Whether or not the kits are "good buys" is influeneced by a family's time constraints.  If you and spouse are both working and only have week-ends and vacations to build, every daylight hour is precious.    Thus, spending a little extra makes sense.  The 'rub' comes in defining the term "little extra,"

A  kit would take out any of the guess work,
but it would not have worked in my case.

I had $3000.00 to get started.
Then I buy what materials I can afford as I go.

That way works too.

A third way would be "for various reasons I need some kind of specialized stuff (e.g. ventilation, clean air, protection against climate change, or wheelchair access) and and that is the point of building."

I think I can remember when house kits first became available.  Advertisements showed up in "Popular Mechanics" and the like.

The kit-bug bit a fellow co-worker "Fred".  He selected a (big) house plan and sent in his money for a complete kit.  Then for days he happily shared with us the artist conception drawings of what was to be his dream home.

Reality struck harshly the day the trucks arrived and left behind all those materials ... plywood, studs, window units and rolls of insulation lying on the ground.  I'm not sure of Fred's building skills, but I know he did not have time for a building project of his own.  It was during a building-boom ... so he could not interest any contractor to take the project.  

Another co-worker who lived near Fred's site said he later saw weeds enveloping the piles of material.  

Fred never mentioned it.

Interesting story JRR!

It is sad to see a lot of expensive materials overwhelm an inexperienced builder who may not even be able to store them properly in a ventilated and dry place.

House materials can rot quickly if not used and then brought under cover in a timely manner.

Another reason to start small and slow and learn what you need as you go...

Kit houses while often sold to inexperienced builders are most appropriate for an experienced crew lined up and ready to go for a quick project. They can be a cost-effective way to build in remote locations with short building seasons (Alaska and northern Canada?) In these locations you have to be experienced enough to get all the right materials together before they ship and then be able to put them together as initially planned and on time. If a new builder can do this the first time it will be a minor miracle!

John, others,

Just what is the "ruin" time limit on framing before it's dried in? I know that depends a whole lot on the climate and time of year, but generally speaking. Six months with occasional rain? A year? Two weeks in the winter?

And is it considered "out of danger" when a tar-papered roof goes on, or only when house-wrapped siding is also in place, or what?

I'm trying to imagine myself building and wondering whether a delay on my part at a critical juncture would ruin the entire project.

A lot depends on climate, especially rain, humidity and storms.... that and your luck!

However, here are some suggestions:

• Framing, especially OSB subfloors and roof sheathing should not stay continually soaked for longer than a few weeks. Use exterior grade plywood for slow building in wet climates. OSB can puff up.
• A roof with only lapped roofing paper as covering will give a great deal of protection for several months as long as it isn't damaged.
• Once walls are sheathed and building paper is up, the house is protected quite well for many months or even a year. Get some sort of roof covering on however, even if only roll roofing.

From observations as I am working on projects and talking to a project manager about this a few weeks ago, the six months or so could be near it.  It can vary greatly but after six months of off and on rain, OSB t+g flooring was getting to look pretty rough- kinda rough on top with swelled wood chips.  He said he was close to having damage but they got the roof on in time.  

Sun or time can also dry studs and twist and warp them from a little to a lot.  Many times they have to go back through and replace studs or framing that have warped an unacceptable amount. :-/

Found this image on the old forum. It's a First Day cottage.

(http://countryplans.com/bbs/images/firstday.jpg)

Not exactly generous with roof overhangs, are they?  :o

Just thought I'd add my two cents.  I seriously considered the Firstday approach.  I wanted overahangs, and the system was able to accomodate that desire.  I think their goal with the package/concept is a fast build.  True, this system is not the only way to achieve that goal, but it is hard to argue with repetition!  I am currently in the process of building a home (by owner) that has taken advantage of the concepts on this forum.  I did the design, and had an architect review and stamp it.  There has been more than one evening spent scratching my head when on paper and thru "thought experiments"  I thought it was all figured out.

With overhangs, you now have eaves to finish.  It isn't a whole lot of fun at the top of the ladder or scaffold looking up!  It adds considerable time, and that is why I think it is left out as a "standard"

Also, back in the 80's, I think Rodale Press had a plan out for a garage or shed that used the same laminated timber framing concept.  I saw the plan, but do not own a copy.  Does anyone remeber this?