Window Question

[BigDaddy]

I'm starting my 20x40 with double offset shed roof.  I want to put windows in the offset area as pictured below.  I would like to use these for extra light, but ventilation would be nice as well.  I'm wondering if I can install a standard double hung window sideways.  I.E a 24"wide x 48"tall turned 90deg to be 48" wide and 24" tall?  If not, does anyone know a resource for making your own single pane windows?
Thanks

[n74tg]

I asked this same question years ago (before forums like this existed).  The answer was no, and I think the reason was it had to do with in a horizontal layout a "vertical" window would leak. 

I will be interested to see if others confirm this.

[John_C]

Single or double hung windows won't work well mounted that way.

They make sliding, casement or awning windows for that type of installation.

[MountainDon]

It's been answered; but yes, the answer is a NO. If you look carefully at a modern window with sealed glass units you will see there are little 'weep' holes or slots on the bottom edge.

As for making your own single pane windows... why single pane? They are an big heat transfer hole in the wall.

If you want windows for just light you could get a non operating window with a good energy rating. Alternatively you could use glass blocks.

[glenn kangiser]

Charly Wing's book "From the Ground up" or possibly "From the walls in" tells how to make your own dual pane windows with wood frames - non-opening.

Not as efficient as todays gas filled ones etc., but then they have limited life also.

[BigDaddy]

Thank you all for your replies...something told me that you couldn't just turn the windows on their side. .   As far as the single pane windows, I just thought that it might be cool, but I wasn't thinking about energy stuff.  Glad you brought that up.  The glass block idea is new to me, but I may run that one past the wife...sounds pretty cool if you ask me.

Thanks guys

[MountainDon]

http://www.pittsburghcorning.com/index.asp

[jb52761]

I'm doing somewhat the same thing here...first I am cutting my own single-pane double strength glass and installing it against a 2x4 and furring frame to lock it in, with weatherstripping...then I am adding the second window, custom stained-glass, on the inside of the first, again with weather stripping...granted it's not the new gas filled top of the line thing, but I make stained glass windows as a hobby, so affordable for me...and you can always have a local artist do it with just clear glass as far as the "stained-glass" look if you prefer more light and less color...granted they don't open for circulation, but if thats what I wanted, it could be done...jb

[BigDaddy]

It's funny you mention stained glass.  I've been trying to get my wife to try stained glass since she is pretty good at painting stained glass designs.  A faux stained glass if you will.  I figure if she can paint it, then she should be able to layout the stained glass in the patterns.  Once she learns the actual techniques of cutting the glass and attaching it, I think she will make some beautiful pieces.

[cordwood]

I'm doing somewhat the same thing here...first I am cutting my own single-pane double strength glass and installing it against a 2x4 and furring frame to lock it in, with weatherstripping...then I am adding the second window, custom stained-glass, on the inside of the first, again with weather stripping...granted it's not the new gas filled top of the line thing, but I make stained glass windows as a hobby, so affordable for me...and you can always have a local artist do it with just clear glass as far as the "stained-glass" look if you prefer more light and less color...granted they don't open for circulation, but if thats what I wanted, it could be done...jb

How are you keeping the moisture from getting between the panes? Even commercial built units get a pin hole in the squiggle and they're junk.
My Father in-law owned a glass shop in the high desert and even in the desert we replaced tons of homemade as well as poorly made factory units that were full of mildew and water spots.

[Redoverfarm]

BigDaddy I know that they make windows for an area that you are considering.  Although they are not common and would probably be a special order item.  Of course if you had an outlet of a company that makes windows they often have several in a factory outlet store for a fraction of the cost.  One of my windows in the cabin was smaller than the others but I still wanted the double hung to match the rest.  I found a double hung in a 24" heigth and 36 width to fit.  I recall looking through their inventory of several windows with a lower profile but wider.  Special order windows that are returned can be bought for a fraction of what they actually cost. 

[jb52761]

Cordwood...yes the air or moisture between the panels is sometimes a problem. The interior crafted glass panels are not going to be fastened into place so tight as to not me removeable. These panels are framed in wood, and hang on hinges from the top. I can simply swing open when I need to, and air the space out, wipe it down, etc. The sides are weatherstripped so when swung down tight against the furring, I get a decent seal. Granted, doesn't sound like something everyone would do, but I figure I am making them myself, its affordable, the look is nice...with my wood stove going in there, I haven't been forced out by the cold yet. And I do not sleep in the cabin overnight in winter. It is used for my studio basically, and my free time hang-out if you will... ...but I do stay all night there in the spring and summer...I like to hear the waves hitting the bank as I'm falling asleep.....jb

[cordwood]

Cordwood...yes the air or moisture between the panels is sometimes a problem. The interior crafted glass panels are not going to be fastened into place so tight as to not me removeable. These panels are framed in wood, and hang on hinges from the top. I can simply swing open when I need to, and air the space out, wipe it down, etc. The sides are weatherstripped so when swung down tight against the furring, I get a decent seal. Granted, doesn't sound like something everyone would do, but I figure I am making them myself, its affordable, the look is nice...with my wood stove going in there, I haven't been forced out by the cold yet. And I do not sleep in the cabin overnight in winter. It is used for my studio basically, and my free time hang-out if you will... ...but I do stay all night there in the spring and summer...I like to hear the waves hitting the bank as I'm falling asleep.....jb

Kool!!! Kind of like Storm Windows. I have seen some people prolong the need to wipe down the windows by putting some Minute Rice in the toe of some pantyhose and setting it inside the air gap. One woman told me it would keep her windows from getting frosted for the whole winter. I've never tried it but she seemed honest so I belived her.

[Mike 870]

Funny this should come up.  I was just thinking of trying to make windows filled with a water/antifreeze mix.  I was thinking of glazing the inside similar to an aquarium.  I'd think the specific heat of water would make them have excellent insulating quality.  Granted the visibility would be aweful, but they could perhaps be used in areas where the view is not all that good and you just want some natural light.  Might not work at all but would be a neat expiriment.

[MountainDon]

I'm not in agreement with your hypothesis. I base that on my tables of thermal conductivity. Here's a sampling. Lower numbers mean less conductivity, higher numbers greater conductivity.

Aluminum     250

Air     0.024

Argon     0.016

Carbon Steel     54

Glass     1.05

Water     0.58

Wood across the grain, white pine     0.12      
   
Wood across the grain, balsa    0.055

Water is better at resisting thermal conductivity than aluminum, but not better than air, according to this. Argon filled low-e windows are better than standard air filled ones.

[Mike 870]

I guess I can scratch that science project.  I was thinking back on a science project where we heated up a bunch of things and our teacher had us guess which one would heat up fastest, and which would retain heat the longest.  We could chose from soil, water, and some other stuff.  We all picked soil and were wrong.  I was thinking that the mass would be a good thing for insulation.  But now that I think of it, that doesn't make much sense.  Maybe there would be some kind of thermal mass benefit?

[John_C]

Interesting chart Don.  I didn't realize that Al was that much better at conducting heat than steel.

It reminds me of an article I read a while ago.  Something to the effect that some of the windows have gone way overboard in their claims of energy savings.  For example in your chart Argon is 33% better than air.  But the entire window matrix of glass, sash and "air" space would not be 33% better. As you go up the price ladder to triple paned and perhaps filled with even more exotic gasses the % of improvement over a similar air space goes up, but it is a diminishing return.

I barely glanced at the article... I was wondering if you've seen a comparison like that? 

[MountainDon]

No I haven't seen anything like that John. My own investigation into windows for the cabin led me to believe the best bang for the buck was dual pane with the low-e technology, air filled space and extruded vinyl frames. They use a U-factor for energy comparison. The ones I elected are 0.31 IIRC.

I don't recall the numbers, but the argon gave a little better performance but they cost a lot more extra. It didn't make economic sense to me. I would like to replace the aluminum windows (standard dual pane) in our house. We may do that some time after the cabin is done. That'll cost. The alternative would be to move to a new and smaller home, but we get slammed on property taxes on that. For some time there's been a 3% limit to annual tax increases as long as you stay in the same home. Some of the increases have been astronomical. It's worse the longer one has been in their home. We've been here forever; 1985.


FYI
Stainless Steel     16