Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Afternoon - May 29th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

K, did what I wanted to do during this holiday weekend - used up all of my supplies (wood, etc.) and had to stop. I'll have to place an order at the lumber yard later this week for more.

I was able to get all my common rafters in and 3 end ones. Now I just have to do one end rafter, the lookouts, and then the barge rafters.

Question: Where those outrigger rafters meet at the top, there's no ridge board up there in my case so the only support will be the lookouts, facia, and soffit. Could I, should I, make some kind of gusset where the rafter angles meet up there?

Here are pics so far:

[astidham]

congrats!! what a huge step!

[Don_P]

Looks like you are notching in 2x lookouts flatways. I usually run the gable end sheathing up to the underside of the lookouts which creates that gusset. One way to brace the end rafters straight at this point is to build and brace the end walls. I'm usually running for the roof at this point but you can install the plates and a stud or two in the center of the rafter span and brace that back to the floor. It doesn't hurt to run a horizontal row at midspan across the top of the rafters holding them on layout. I also like to put blocking between the rafters flush with the outside of the wall that is about 1-1/2 " shorter than the height of the rafter above the birdsmouth out there... if it is a vented roof. If foam run the blocking up tight to the top of the rafters to create a dam for the foam guys.

I usually run 2x6 flys and subfascia and 1x8 fascia but that is a personal choice.

[ajbremer]

That is exactly the information I've needed Don_P, thank you. I will reread it again to fully understand it all.

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Morning - May 30th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Hey Don,

I don't understand this part of what you said last post:

"...but you can install the plates and a stud or two in the center of the rafter span and brace that back to the floor. It doesn't hurt to run a horizontal row at midspan across the top of the rafters holding them on layout."

I'm still wondering about where those 2 - 45 degree angle cuts on the barge rafters come together. Can I make a little gusset plate and nail it to the back side of them?

I've seen builds here where they are putting that blocking between the rafters above the top plates, I'll do that and leave vent room.

It rained and stormed in the very early hours of the morning and I went out there and swept the water off the floor again. It'll be a celebration when the rain don't get in.

Here's another question about my gable end / loft window framing y'all. My build has those ridge beam posts in the middle of each gable end so my choice of windows becomes somewhat limited, my windows have to be on one side or the other. I originally wanted to get those windows that are pointed at the top and angle down along the 45 degree roof line, one on each side - 4 total. Are there standard dimensions for windows like that or are they always a special order. The bad thing about those types of windows are that they don't open and I would like windows that open so I may just forget about the fancy angles and go with rectangular windows on each side of the post on each end.

[metolent]

Wow!  Looks really great, you must be quite pleased!  I've been checking back in regularly just to see how you're coming along Al. 

I used trapezoidal windows on either side of the posts on my cabin.  I special ordered them to sizes I chose, based on the stud framing between the windows to make for the proper 45 degree downward angle across all three on both sides to follow the roof line.  I used fixed glass on mine, but there's nothing stopping you from using combinations.  For example, I was initially set on using triangular windows on top of casement windows to get a similar look, but would open.  The triangular windows were going to be fixed (e.g. cheap - would have been 2.5' x 2.5' and were going to cost me about $40 ordered and delivered), but the casements would enable me to open everything up without the dividers needed for sliders.  It would still look similar to all fixed panes, but open.  In the end, I realized it would be a pain to open/close them given the height off the floor, so I elected to just use the two sets of french doors to "open" the wall and went with the fixed glass for the trapezoidal windows up there.  If I recall correctly, those custom-sized six windows cost me ~$800 delivered.  Turns out they were the most expensive windows I used, but then my father-in-law was a Marvin window guy, so I used nearly all Marvin windows in my cabin that were free (with a few Milgard exceptions).

Can't wait to see more progress Al.... keep up the great work! 

[UK4X4]

By code you need an exit sized window no higher than 42" in any bedroom on the second floor.

A good idea wether in a code area or not.

If you noticed on the news the terrible Qatar fire which killed 13 children...........we know that kindergarden......it only has one entry and exit- no fire escape we did not use it due to that and it had no windows either

My wife knows the family that lost the triplets.........so sad

[Don_P]

I read about the fire, so sorry to hear that UK.

I don't understand this part of what you said last post:
"...but you can install the plates and a stud or two in the center of the rafter span and brace that back to the floor. It doesn't hurt to run a horizontal row at midspan across the top of the rafters holding them on layout."

You will be framing gable walls at each end. You can go ahead and put down the bottom sole plate on the floor and lay it out for studs (I like for them to stand them in line with the studs below if at all possible). There are several ways to handle the top of the studs.  You can put a sloped 2x6 plate on the underside of the rafter and fill studs between top and bottom plates or you can notch the studs to run up alongside the rafters and nail the rafter to the stud.

At this point I usually just put in a single stud near the middle of each rafter and nail a brace from the rafter end of the stud down to the floor, stringlining the rafter or plumbing that stud. This helps stabilize the end rafter in the correct location before lookouts go in. You'll have 4 locations of this bracing, 2 braces at each gable end. In that middle area of the rafters I'll often nail a 2x4 horizontally across the roof, pulling the rafters to the same layout they have at top and bottom, Don't smoke the nails, leave the heads up a bit for easy pulling. You've just locked them straight for sheathing. When the sheathing gets up to that layout board remove it and continue sheathing.


As far as stock triangle windows, there are stock 45 degree windows... but your roof is not a 45 you'll have to see if the angle difference is objectionable. Remember when I asked it the pitch was critical, here it is coming back around. If it's fixed glass I usually site build the frames and get the glass company to come out and measure it and make the glass. Have them take the measures, if it is wrong it is theirs not yours. If it is big or hairy I have them set it. Do check on egress window locations, remember you'll probably get into tempered glass requirements at 18" or lower to the floor.

Stock octagons come in operable and fixed and have 45 degree sides, not sure how a pair of "eyes" up there at the loft end would look.

[CjAl]

just something for you to consider Al.

you just said you will install blocking at the plate between the rafters and leave room for venting.

however your rafter connection at the ridge beam.is set for a non vented roof. if you wanted vented you should have had the rafter an inch or inch amd a half higher then the top of the beam. as you sit they are flush.with the top of the beam offering nowhere for air to flow.
plus your rafters are not big enough to have room for venting and enough insulation

i think i see non vented spray foam in your future my friend

[Redoverfarm]

You can still ridge vent with the beam.  Dropping your sheeting 1-1/2" from the beam edge on your rafter and then use a wide ridge vent.  You will however need to leave some space at the bottom(soffit area) for the air to enter.  I am not sure without reading the rafter size but blocking just one size smaller should allow enough air if all bays are allowed to draw air on the top portion of the blocks and near the roof sheeting.. Then using rafter-mates to extend to the ridge area if all the ceiling will be used.  If not just to the point above the ceiling insulation.

[ajbremer]

I tried NOT to set my rafters flush with the top of the ridge beam. Yes, I didn't go an inch to an inch and a half but the point of the rafters average about 1/2" above the beam. You can see them sticking up if you look closely at some of those past rafter top pictures.

Wouldn't that be enough to let air through?

[Redoverfarm]

I tried NOT to set my rafters flush with the top of the ridge beam. Yes, I didn't go an inch to an inch and a half but the point of the rafters average about 1/2" above the beam. You can see them sticking up if you look closely at some of those past rafter top pictures.

Wouldn't that be enough to let air through?

Al that is not much but by setting your sheeting back 1" from the beams outside edge it should be sufficent. 

[ColchesterCabin]

AJ do a slight setback from the ridge beam and perhaps use a ridge vent and all should be well. Ridge venting is not that expensive just can be a oain in the you know where. I have learned a lot from your post so far has been very insightful for my project.

[Don_P]

You're cutting it pretty fine but here would be the check. They want relatively balanced intake and exhaust and it should be from 1/300 to 1/150 of the area vented. The area would be, in your case I think about 168" of rafter length wall to ridge times 22.5" bay width divided by .5"x 22.5", the gap up top. Check it and I think you'll scrape by. I like the idea of holding the sheathing back to open that a bit if you can get an acceptable cap. Up there you could also add a bit of shim under the sheathing to open it up a little bit, nobody will see it. The biggest thing is to use the rafter chutes Redover mentioned every bay all the way from bottom blocking to ridge to make sure insulation doesn't push up and close the vent path.  I insulated ours with too little fiberglass and went back inside with a couple of layers of foam and then osb as a nail base for t&g. I kept chasing my tail once I realized I didn't have a warm enough hat on. It probably would have been cheaper all told to foam it, but that is not cheap either.

[ajbremer]

Thursday Morning - May 31st, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Thanks for the posts everyone.

I've been googling this morning trying to learn more about venting, ridge caps/ ridge vents, etc.

Here's a video of a radiant barrier going into a cathedral ceiling. He using foam board stuff and then attic foil across it for a vent area up through the rafter width from bottom to top. I guess that's just another form of those vent barriers.

Here's a few videos of ridge vents, etc.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjwZXoRzRiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AhiltNFB3Q

[ajbremer]

Friday Afternoon - June 1st, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Just barely started on doing the first lookouts of my life. Also the very first gable end stud...cool!

Here's a youtube video from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct0MPfyYHYg

[Squirl]

I heard you mention the extra long cut when notching the wood for the outrigger.  When I am notching the wood, I set the saw to 1.5 inch depth and just keep cutting kerfs in the space and finish with a hammer and chisel.  If you don't have chisels, they are pretty cheap ($5-$10).  In a pinch I have used an oversized screw driver as a chisel.  BTW thanks for sharing that rafter cut from earlier.  It makes me feel I am not alone.

[ajbremer]

Friday Night - June 1st, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Here's some pics of what I did today. Still plenty to go:

[Redoverfarm]

AJ maybe you stated earlier but are you going with single or metal roof.  If metal your application will be different than those portrayed in the video.  Here is just an example of a Metal ridge vent. This particular one says it extends 8" from the peak on both sides.   On my roof I just used a ridge cap.

http://www.exceptionalmetals.com/vented-ridge-cap.php

http://www.mackeymetalroofing.com/METAL_ROOF_PLAIN_RIDGE_CAP_p/mmr-trim-lg101.htm

With either you will need some type of insect screen material similar to Cobra and some end caps.  Bats like to enter the ends. 

While we are sort of on the subject what are your plans for the soffit area?

[ajbremer]

Thanks Redoverfarm - that's very good information.

I will be going with shingles and not metal. I like the looks of shingles. I can see myself understanding and doing the job of installing shingles. I'll be sleeping right under that roof and I'm not sure if the rain drop noise is something I like. I'm thinking that the shingles are a better sound insulator? Sound is not my reason for wanting shingles though.

As far as the soffit area is concerned, I've seen examples and what I would like to do is to cut my rafter tails plumb for a facia board (that's better for gutters isn't it?) and then do a small flat cut under that at 90 degrees where I can nail the soffit board to the rafters. I could nail a horizontal nailer strip all the way down the long walls for the soffit board to be nailed to also, right? I then plan to have screens for the venting at every rafter bay. Am I right in thinking that each rafter bay needs a screen where the soffit board is?

[Redoverfarm]

Thanks Redoverfarm - that's very good information.

I will be going with shingles and not metal. I like the looks of shingles. I can see myself understanding and doing the job of installing shingles. I'll be sleeping right under that roof and I'm not sure if the rain drop noise is something I like. I'm thinking that the shingles are a better sound insulator? Sound is not my reason for wanting shingles though.

As far as the soffit area is concerned, I've seen examples and what I would like to do is to cut my rafter tails plumb for a facia board (that's better for gutters isn't it?) and then do a small flat cut under that at 90 degrees where I can nail the soffit board to the rafters. I could nail a horizontal nailer strip all the way down the long walls for the soffit board to be nailed to also, right? I then plan to have screens for the venting at every rafter bay. Am I right in thinking that each rafter bay needs a screen where the soffit board is?

If your soffit will be closed in you don't need a screen at each bay.  I believe and someone may concur/correct that you will need approximately 1 sg ft of soffit vent per 150 sq ft. of rafter space.  Don't quote me as it has been sometime since I researched it.  Meaning if you used the metal screened vents ( approx 4"X10") Something like these
that already have the screen in place. It only requires the correct rough opening in the soffit.  Of course there are others that would do the same job in different shapes and sizes.  Just figure the math to match the amount needed. Speaking of which I had been told at one time that the soffit vent area should be matched with the exhaust (ridge vent) area.  Which may have some merit as you are not going to allow any more air in than what is exhausted out.  That would not mean that all your vents (soffit) can be at one location.  They should be evenly spaced to serve all the rafter bays.   

http://www.lowes.com/pd_17108-52595-FOV168BR_4294858159__?productId=3284190&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__4294858159__%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Yes it is a good idea for a rake/facia board to attach the gutters to but even better in addition to occassionally hit the rafter also with the hanger(hidden).  I have seen the soffit done the way you described and also letting the facia board extend below the rafter tail so that your siffit material can be nailed to the tail and then follow up with a piece if trim nailed to both the rafter tail (on top of the soffit material) and the facia board.  But you are correct that you will need a nailer against the wall which is plumb(level) with the same nailing surface on the rafter tail.  Depending on what type of material you use might dictate the manner that it is attached.

On mine I used 3/8" V board (4" spacing) similar to T1-11 cut off of the 4' end of a 4'X8' sheet to the width of my soffit.  I installed nailers running from my rafter tails bottoms to the wall every 16-24" if memory is correct.  I just sistered them to the rafter and toe nailed them to my nailer running along the wall. That way I didn't have to cut the bottom of the rafter.   Since my sheetgoods were 4' that gave me a nailer at the splice for the next adjoining piece.  I used the rectangle vents like those pictured above and they were external face mounted so the cross blocking did not affect the placement and I was able to evenly space them in the soffit area.

You would think out of 485 pictures of different stages of my build that I would have a photo of that detail. NOT.

[ajbremer]

Sunday Morning - June 3rd, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, now I'm thinking a little bit differently about my soffit and facia configuration due to time limitations. I would like to leave the rafter ends the way they are, still venting and covering of course.

My home owners associations 1 year 'externally finished' time limit is up in only a couple months. The way they worded it is this:

"The exterior of the building must be completed within one (1) year of the commencement of construction."

I'm figuring that the "...commencement of construction." for me was when I started to dig my first pier hole.

I really have to put things in overdrive but yet keep doing things right and not cutting corners.

The worse part about all of this is that I won't be able to put my front and back porch rafters up there on the top plates of the wall because I'll have to finish the roof, siding, and put in the doors and windows, not enough time to build front and rear porch, dig holes, etc.

I'm sure that they'll work with me if I'm not exactly on time, in fact, I don't think my HOA knows my exact date of commencement.

So again, I'll be leaving my rafter tails the way they are and I'll be looking for some diagrams showing what I'll need to do. I'll have to get into the books.

Today I'm hopefully going to finish the lookouts and then I'll put the barge rafters on. Then comes the sheeting.

[CjAl]

it will usually be the date you applied for the permit.

vhances are they will just make you get another permit but with the problem they gave you over that shed who really knows.

with ten foot walls you can always run the porch rafters off the walls just under the roof overhangs. thats what i plan to do but i will likely be a bit over ten foot.

btw my hoa gives me 180 days to dry in. i applied for my permit like 4 months ago and i havent even poured the concrete piers yet. but my hoa doesnt enforce anything.

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - June 4th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ya ever had broom blisters?

It rained again hard very early in the morning all the way up till around 7:30am or so. Well, I didn't think it would have rained so I left all my tools and stuff just laying all out ready for the next day, had church and didn't want to take the time, etc.

Well, I woke up to rain at about 2:10am. It was kind of off and on so I got up and weatherbugged the doppler and I thought it all might pass by so I tried to lay back down. Then it rained harder so I just got up, put clothes on, and went out and up into the loft, hooked up a light and gathered all my tools and put them under the loft floor out of the direct rain fall. By the time I layed back down I had been up for at least an hour and a half.

I went back out about 9:30 this morning and started to sweep the water off the floors. It puddles in a few places so it makes me wonder if I can do something about that from underneath, jack it up, sister another stud, let me know. Anyway, level floor or not, it takes a while to sweep the thing. I almost end up with blisters! I feel like Ringo on the White Album when he shouts, "I got blisters on me fingers!". (Only a few of you may know that but I thought that anyways).

I gotta get my roof on and stop that rain!

[ajbremer]

Monday Afternoon - June 4th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

I got to show one 'old-timer' my build over the weekend and he said something that I've been questioning.

He looked at my pile of 7/16 sheets for the roof and noticed my 2x8 rafters at 2' centers and then said that it would be wise to put 2x4 purlins across the length of the rafters by way of siting in notches kind of like I've done with the lookouts otherwise there could be sagging.

I have seen most builds here are without the purlins and others have told me that here in mid-oklahoma most everyone goes with 7/16 with rafters at 2' on center / no purlins.

Any comments about it?