Easiest size cabin to build if your a beginner & you want a loft?

[ajbremer]

I purchased the 'Little House Plans' here and also became a member on planhelp. I also went to Lowe's and bought the two main books suggested here on this site: "Framing" & "Visual Handbook of Building and Remodeling". I'm studying hard, reading the books, and asking everyone I know a lot of questions.

I am a beginner builder and I don't want to modify things too much except wanting a standing room loft (10' wall studs) with a 45 degree pitch roof. My main question is:

Is there one size I could use that would be easier to build than another? Is a 16x24 easier than a 16x28? If width and length are divisible by 8, does that make things easier? And what about that 45 degree roof, someone told me that the 45 roof makes angles easy to cut. What is countryplans easiest plans that have a nice loft but yet is still not to large?

What are your thoughts?

[MountainDon]

adding a few feet of length does not make it harder, it just takes a little more time. I'd size the length as to what you want for interior space.

The width? I feel sixteen feet is a good width, but some want smaller. Personal choice there. Level of difficulty is the same. Narrower means less headspace in the loft though.

I think it is a fine idea to stick with ready made plans when one is in the beginner class. Or at least keep the mods small or relatively unimportant.

One thing that is easy to change is size of wall framing. If you are doing a loft I'd make the walls 2x6. Also that's better for insulation.

Another mod that is worth thinking about is rafter depth. Larger ones means better insulation, important in hotter or colder locations. That's an easy enough change as well.

Ease of cutting rafters? That depends on the saw more than anything.     Seriously though a guide block can be made if using a hand held circular saw. Clamp it in place and cut. I cut my angled peak ends with a battery powered circular saw free hand. The lighter saw made it easy to control. The big advantage to the 12:12 is the extra loft headspace.

Myself, I would not worry about whether a multiple of 4 makes it "better" than multiples of 2. The 2 feet of wall sheathing I cut off to make our side 30 feet was used on the other side wall. Cut off 2x's I had were used for blocking or at worst they made fine kindling.

[ajbremer]

Thank you Don, that is very helpful.

[glenn kangiser]

As I recall the Little House Plans only go to 14 wide, so things will not be per plan if you go to 16 wide.

Seems we had some discussion on modifications a long time ago.

[suburbancowboy]

I was in your boat 2 years ago.  So I decided to build a 12X16 shed first.  That was a great decision.  I learned so much.  Now when I build the main cabin this spring I have a place to store things and a place to sleep.  I also have the confidence to tackle such a large and expensive project.

[MountainDon]

As I recall the Little House Plans only go to 14 wide, so things will not be per plan if you go to 16 wide.

   It's a foggy morning here    That is very true. But it is relatively easy for that to be re-engineered using the prescriptive tables.

I know!!  I'll sell my plans.  15.75 x 30!!

[MushCreek]

The pitch of the roof doesn't make much difference; a framing book will show you how to lay out your rafters using a framing square. The 12/12 (or higher) will give you more loft space, but the steeper you go, the more difficult and dangerous the roof will be to work on. Anything above 8/12 is pushing it for walking around, and many folks pucker up at 6/12. Metal roofing is a ski slope, especially with a little morning dew on it. Above all, you want to be safe! Plan on getting a safety harness, and tying off when you're on the roof. There are also various schemes for nailing cleats on the roof, or making a 'chicken ladder' to safely work on a steep roof.

[intelijoc]

ok,  the 16x24 w/loft will give me about 110sqf in the loft?  And increased headroom means a man 6'2" can stand upright in the loft   

[Shawn B]

If you are fairly new to building and are planing a shed or storage building anyway, I would recommend starting with one of John's Little House plans, such as the 12x18 or the 10x14 Retreat plan or similar. Lower cost, lower stress structure to hone your skills and ideas on. Just my thoughts.

[duncanshannon]

Hi-

ajbremer - i'm in a similar situation as you (i think).  I fully plan on sticking with to some of the plans sold here and not modifying much. The plan at this point is to build a 2 story 20x32.  Only thing I'll need to modify is around my pitch. (Might have some covenants to deal with - tbd).

The cabin is prob. 5 years away... plan is to do what ever I can around here including building a 10x12 version of the little house. This will be used as a shed, but i'm going to build it in a way that will be like the 20x30 as much as possible (which i think means it will be overdone for just a shed!).   Also planing on finishing the basement, building a deck etc.

I've picked up a couple books already - which have been great to read:

The Ultimate Guide to House Framing http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580114431/countryplanscom
The Visual Handbook of Building and Remodeling.  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1600852467/countryplanscom
Housebuilding: A Do-It-Yourself Guide, Revised & Expanded http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402743165/gulandche-20
Drywall: Professional Techniques for Great Results http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BWQ54K/gulandche-20

and just got "Working Alone" today. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1561582867/countryplanscom

[ajbremer]

Thanks duncanshannon, I've got the first two same books that you do but that "Working Alone" book and the "Housebuilding" book I don't have. Those first two books are a pretty good read so I'm going to wait till I finish them.

As far as building a small shed/etc. in order to 'practice-up' for the real house...I'm just going to try my best and go for the gold. I'll read, study, and ask a lot of questions to my friend builders also. One excellent thing for any 'wanna-be-builder' is to read the 'Owner Built Projects' postings here - all the way through, each page to the end. It's really neat to see all the different ways people do things - especially the pier and beam and/or foundation stuff - so many different ways and styles!

I want to do the 'Country Plan Jig' as soon as I can so I'm hoping to have my floor finished by July of this year - at least!

Happy building sir and I hope you can get started sooner than you think.

[Cowboy Billy]

Another way to get more room in the loft is to use a gambreal roof. Thats what I am going to use on my 12x20 bunkhouse. My friends dad took a 100 yr old barn down moved it 50 miles and put it up at his place numbering all the beams and making new ones to replace rotted ones. He was watching it when it got hit by lightning and burnt to the ground and it took the heart out of him for a long time. His younger son built him a new barn with a gambreal roof. And I fell in love with how open it is.







While that is a big barn it scales down nicely. And easily handles the snow load in Michigan's UP.

Billy

[MountainDon]

It's really neat to see all the different ways people do things - especially the pier and beam and/or foundation stuff - so many different ways

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I will. 

There are different ways to accomplish most tasks. Not all methods used by owner builders are necessarily the best or even correct. Some methods may not meet present day building codes but still may be strong and safe. Some other methods present clear difficulties or may contain poor design or poor execution.

The registration agreement states "We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information presented", among a number of disclaimers. Remember, just because you saw it on the internet it is not necessarily correct, true or proper. We try to present only good information, but we do not edit content.

We could get into discussion about whether or not this or that part of the code makes sense. Some folks will argue vehemently that the government has no business telling us what to do on our own property. I agree with some of that. However, there are some very good reasons why certain things are prescribed to be done in a certain manner by the building codes.

So what this comment boils down to is this: there may be some details of some owner builder projects that have certain concerns. In many cases these concerns have been addressed in the commentary. But there is no guarantee of that.

A good piece of advice for any novice builder is to ask questions before lifting a hammer. A "this is what I propose to do, will it work" is better than a "this is what I've done, what do you think?"

Anyhow, that is my 2 cents worth

Back to your regularly scheduled program.... 

[ajbremer]

Thank you Don, that is excellent advice. I will most definitely ask "...here is what I purpose to do, what do you think?"

[mpls_ham]

AJ,
I started my 14x24 last September and thought you might like to see some pics to get an idea on what you might build.  My experience with building is slim but I do know how to use a nail gun.  I had an extra hand with me about a quarter of the time when I thought I might need it and it was very appreciated.  As for the loft there will be enough headroom to dress/undress but just enough.  My boys will be sleeping in the loft and my wife and I will sleep on a sofa-bed down below.  The size of the place will suit us for long weekend getaways and if I decide a want a real home in the woods in the future I will use this as a shed or a bunkhouse.   My quick advice is to plan, plan, plan and be patient.  I spent half of my time scratching my head and staring at my progress

Good luck with your project and I hope you enjoy the process as much as I have.  You will have to parse through some family pics but there should be enough to give you an idea if that is what you want to build.

https://s1008.photobucket.com/albums/af203/mpls_ham/Elk%20Meadows%202010/

[ajbremer]

Wow, right on mpls_ham, I love your place! That looks just like what I would like to do. So you had it up and dried in - in less than a year? Also, your using 10' wall studs? I really like the way you built your loft right off the bat along with the walls.

So, did you follow Johns 14x24 'Little House Plans' to the tee (except for the 10' wall studs). I'll be asking more questions later. By the way, are you here in the 'Owner Built Projects' section? I'll have to look.

[MountainDon]

, are you here in the 'Owner Built Projects' section? I'll have to look.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9543.msg122639#msg122639

[ajbremer]

Excellent Don, thanks for providing me with the link to mpls_ham's place. He seems to have used 4 piers a side and spaced them 8' apart. I noticed the 'Little House Plans' show 6 piers a side at 4' apart with a 2' overhang (cantilever).

Thanks for the information that you've given to me lately. As far as my place goes, I don't have to go to code, no code where I am BUT I want to build as close to code as possible knowing that it'll all be for the good. I also have come to the conclusion (finally) that I'm going to build a 14x24. I have to study up on the differences of using Ridge Beams, Trusses, and collar ties though. I'm pretty sure I would like to go with the Ridge Beam idea, wouldn't that be the choice that'll give me the most head room? Thanks again Don.

[MountainDon]

Number of piers: Theoretically if the girders used were big enough you could build that 12 x 24 with only a pier at each corner. That is in theory you could size the girder large enough to do the job. But more than likely the ground would not be able to support the weight of the entire building on just those four piers. What I'm getting at, but had to make into a long story    , is that I believe John's plan will cover a lot of soil conditions because it uses numerous piers. There is not likely to be any overloading of the piers. Soil conditions vary and fewer piers may be okay in some places. The girders would have to be increased in size to accommodate the wider pier spacing.


A proper ridge beam would certainly permit the 10 foot side walls, loft(s) and cathedral ceiling you desire. They require some calculations to be sized right. Also calculations to provide the support path from the ridge down to the foundation. This is not covered by prescriptive tables but is right up an engineers alley.   

[mpls_ham]

Thanks AJ....I started the project in late August and got it dried in mid November.  I'm guessing that it took about 40 hours to get to where I am now with some help.  I would add at least a few more days if you plan on doing this solo.  The only real difference between John's plan and mine is that I built the foundation as a pole building rather than using concrete piers.  I chose the pole because of the lack of easy access to water for concrete and I did not have to concern myself with bracing the foundation.  Another change I made is with the loft.  I did not notch the studs for the outside plates,  I used jack studs sandwiched to the the poles. 

[ajbremer]

Thanks for that reply mpls_ham. Could you clarify where you said, "...I used jack studs sandwiched to the poles." I'll have to go back to your pics and look for that. Are you saying you put boards between your wall studs? Thanks again for explaining things to me, I need all the help I can get.

[mpls_ham]

I nailed and glued a 2x6 to all four posts/poles that run from the floor to the bottom of the front and rear loft plates. I then layed the plates on top of the new 2x6 and lagged them into the posts.  I then ran my joists between the plates using simpson hangers.  The loft is floored with 3/4" T&G plywood.  The reason I went this route is the I wanted to secure the middle 8' sections from being pushed outward by the roof.  The other 8' section has a 4x6 timber lagged and set on top of more 2x6s nailed and glued to the post. I will still use rafter ties but they will only be 12" from the bottom of the ridge plate and still give me about 7' of headroom in the loft.  My technical writing sucks so I hope this and the pics explain my blatherings. 

Also I want to be clear that I did not calculate (dead/live load) anything.  I am certain that my 8x13 loft will support anything I plan on putting up there (two boys, two beds and a chest of drawers). 

[MountainDon]

I will still use rafter ties but they will only be 12" from the bottom of the ridge plate ....

Just trying to keep to the proper nomenclature, those will be collar ties, not rafter ties. Collar ties keep the roof from peeling open at the ridge in high wind situations. Rafter ties are placed in the lower third to prevent wall spreading. Using wrong names may lead readers astray.

[builderboy]

On my 14x26 with 8' walls I lowered the loft a foot to help with the head room. Don't miss the space below, althought if I was 7 feet tall.......................