What type of heat would you recommend???

Started by 2zwudz, November 18, 2007, 04:21:55 PM

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2zwudz

    What type of heat would you recommend I use in my 16x24 lofted cabin?  It will be built on piers. 2x4 walls. I live in west central Illinois.  I have electricity and a endless supply of fire wood.
Thanks Mark

Freeholdfarm

My recommendation would be a masonry wood stove, with a single electric baseboard heater for backup in case you have to be gone for several days and the pipes might freeze.  

Masonry stoves (also known as Russian or Finnish masonry fireplaces, etc.) are very efficient and very clean-burning.  Efficient might not be such a big deal for you right now, but what if you got hurt or older and getting wood in became difficult?  The masonry stoves will heat a house with a bundle of twigs a day, basically.  Or scrap paper.  Whatever you can find that will burn, so you can fire the stove once or twice a day, that's all you need.

If you hire someone to build the things they are way too expensive, but you can build them yourself.  I know two families in New Hampshire who heat with homebuilt masonry stoves.  They are lined with firebrick and flue tile, but the outside is cement block.  Not real pretty, but you can get used to it.  Both of those stove had some cracking within a few years of when they were built, but they were both fixable.  If I built one, I'd leave it bare for a while, so the cracks would be visible.  Once it was through cracking and the cracks were fixed, I'd plaster it.  Both of the families are happy with their stoves now that they've got the cracking fixed.

If you can't spare the space (masonry stoves do tend to take up space) then look at the rocket stove Glenn on this forum has in his house.  Or take a small metal stove and surround it with cement or bricks for heat storage.  

Kathleen


John Raabe

#2
A masonry stove provides a very efficient clean heat but they both take a lot of space and can have a pretty big learning curve. With a time lag of several hours, it can be tricky to get them to provide just a bit of heat in the morning and evening of a mild day. They work best when kept fired and their traditional use is in cold, long winter climates where the house is heated for 6 to 8 months.

For seasonal use a lower mass unit may be more practical. It will be quicker to heat up (and cool down) as well as smaller and simpler to install. A good cast iron woodstove of modest size will likely be all you need. We heated 1450 sf with a small box stove for over 24 years (Seattle climate).

As mentioned above, electric baseboard or wall heaters are economical for backup. Depending on electric rates an oil or propane heater may be more cost-effective if you expect to use the backup heat more often.
None of us are as smart as all of us.

peter nap

John, I have a question about small stoves. I am putting in a fireplace but that's mostly for the looks. It's not very efficient heat. I have planned a stove also.

I've been looking at them for months now and be honest, can't tell a lot of difference between the lower priced Chinese stoves Tractor Supply and other's sell...and some of the expensive ones on the market.

I'm wondering if they're like tractors and generators...all made in uncle Wong's stove factory.

What should i be looking for?

MikeT

I can only speak of my plans.  I purchased the Jotul Nordic 100 for my wood stove.  It has a window so it gives you the visual pleasure of a fire, yet it will heat 1000 sf space.  Then I will be using Cadet space heaters for backup/quick heat.   I think the Cadets might  be a better alternative than the electric baseboard if only because they have blowers and many folks think they are more flexible than the BB heaters.

mt

mt


MountainDon

#5
Well, my personal experience is limited to a USA made Vermont Casting cast iron stove and a small cast iron stove made in China.

There's no comparing the quality. It is difficult to regulate the fire in the Chinese stove, it just doesn't have the air control the VC has. The VC stove is a beauty. Looks better, works better, probably last forever.

Many of those Chinese stoves do not carry the UL approved label. That usually means the need for larger stove to combustible clearance, and could be an insurance problem.

As for what to use for a cabin, with your own wood lot. Building a masonry Russian fireplace would be super for a dwelling that was occupied on a continuous basis. Like John pointed out they were originally designed to make a comfy home throughout a long cold winter. For my weekend ue during cold weather it would not be a good choice. We're going with a VC stove and a direct vent propane convection wall heater for backup and lazy days.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

Redoverfarm

Peter

Have you considered a glass doored insert for the fireplace.  You still would have the atmosphere but your heat out-put would tripple and your consumption of firewood would be cut well below half as compared to the fireplace by itself.

For years my father burned a fireplace and all he got done was feed it wood to heat a small area.  I finally convienced him to go to an insert (he is old school). He wouldn't trade it for two fireplaces now.  

Another thought would be to go ahead and plumb the firebox for gas and just plug it off in the back of the firebox.  Then later when you can't cut wood it might be an alternative.  This should be done in the construction stage of the firebox and flu and it can just be stubbed off in the crawlspace for later use.  It would be alot more apealing than running a gas line into the firebox later.  For about $10  you would be set later without the bother.

Personally I have a soapstone stove. Yeah they are expensive but I got a good deal. $2,800 stove used one season for $1,000.  They take a while to heat up but will stay long after the fire is out.

glenn-k

#7
Here is the stove we just put in, for Sassy at the other house for when she has to work.

Automatic - .23 GPH on high --- fuel oil - we use red diesel.



http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/laserventedheaters/L-60AT.mv

We bought it from Al's Discount Heating in Maine http://www.alsheating.com/KeroseneVentedHeater.htm

He inspects and repackages to prevent shipping damage.  Very reasonable.  This is the only other kind of stove we would consider (or another good oil stove from Al) -- He tells it like it is.  There is a lot of crap out there --- our old Monitor was not repairable.  Toyo's are if they ever need it.  He will take your needs into account and make sure you get the proper model.  This one may work for the smaller houses, but maybe not larger depending on where you are.  Ask Al.




C.White

I live in north Georgia in the mountains, so we have relatively mild winters here.
We have always heated with wood stoves, either inserts or free standing, and will continue with a really fine Fisher that I bought off of craigslist.com  when the new house is finished.  We will also have two propane wall mounted heaters as back up heat or for when we're older and may not be able to keep up with the wood pile.
I have a Rinnai brand heater in the office of my business now, and am very pleased with how efficient it is and how well it keeps a 12 X 24 foot room toasty.  I used to heat this room with a small woodstove too, and got tired of loading wood into it every 45 minutes to stay warm.   I'll use this same brand when I install them into the new house.  
Don't know if this helps, but with my experience of burning wood for 30 years as primary heat, I'm really happy to find a gas heater that I can afford to run.
Christina



glenn-k

Christina, your Rinnai is a gas one?

They make a very good oil one also.  Very efficient and one of Al's approved brands.

desdawg

Burning diesel fuel for heat sounds kind of expensive in todays world. How does it compare to propane? I hadn't thought about using diesel for heat.

peter_nap

Des. the red diesel he's talking about is untaxed off road diesel. Here, it's about 2.80 a gallon. I use it in the tractor and generators. Since it's illegal, I wouldn't consider using it in the truck ::)...Kerosene is about a dollar more and fuel oil is right up there with kerosene.

So as far as store bought oil...it's not a bad deal.

desdawg

#12
I use red diesel in my tractors. I just hadn't ever considered it for house heating. A 100# propane cylinder holds roughly 23 gallons of gas. Would you get the same "mileage" from 23 gallons of diesel? It's just one of those things I had never thought about. I have never used a fuel oil heater. Actually the .23 gph Glenn mentioned sounds pretty efficient.

glenn-k

#13
The diesel is off road - so cheaper - learned about it from a farmer and Al said it would work fine.  It may gel in cold weather so I would probably swithch to Number 1 diesel in that case.  You could probably still get it for off road in the right area.

The diesel has more energy stored in it per unit so should be cheaper.  The stove advertised efficiency is 90% so it should exceed that - I have heard more in the past.

QuoteDIRECT VENT HEATING SYSTEM
         L-60AT Toyostove

     FEATURES

   * Wood Fireplace Design
     Attractive, rustic, antique-finish cabinet with ceramic simulated logs suited for rustic or residential setting.
     Perfect for cottage/cabin, living room, family room or any room.
   * Clean and Safe
     A force-flue pipe venting design resulting in odorless, clean heating at maximum efficiency. The unit also features a safety shut-off in the event of a problem.
   * Convenient, Easy to Use
     Offers the most advanced technoogy with the economy of the #1 fuel oil or kerosene heating.
     A simplified digital control panel displays room temperature, temperature setting, time and error codes.
   [highlight]* Comfortable
     Large circulation fan distributes clean heat quickly and evenly.
     Automatically regulates between low, medium and high burn modes.
     Turns itself off when the room temperature rises approximate 4 degrees above the desired set temperature.
   * Automatic Temperature Set-Back Operation
     Features a 24-hour programmable set-back and an integrated thermostat control to maintain the desired room temperature.
[/highlight]
Part Number: L-60AT
Type of Heater       Forced Flue Vented Heater (Antique Finish)
Fuel Type       1-K Grade Kerosene or No. 1 Fuel Oil (ASTM D396)
Electric Rating       120V AC 60Hz
Preheat 270 Watts
Buring 60 Watts
Heating Efficiency       90%
Heating Rating       30,000 BTU/hr (high)
21,000 BTU/hr (medium)
12,000 BTU/hr (low)
Fuel Consumption       0.230 gal/hr (high)
0.161 gal/hr (medium)
0.095 gal/hr (low)
Size (WxHxD)       30" x 24" x 19"
Weight       77 lbs
Heating Area
(FT2)       1,250 (0°F)
1,500 (20°F)
Vent Hole Pipe       2-3/4" - 3" diameter
Max. Length of
Vent Pipe System       Maximum 10 ft, 3 bends or less
Type of Tank       Exterior Tank (required)

http://www.toyotomiusa.com/products/laserventedheaters/L-60AT.mv