MoutainDon asked me to share outhouse plans and ideas:
While not a plan, this is closest to what I'm going to build:
http://home.earthlink.net/~roygbvgw/outhouse1.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~roygbvgw/martino1.html
There is a pretty good chapter on building an outhouse in J. Wayne Fears book: How to Build Your Dream Cabin in the Woods. It lacks measurements though.
Some of the better plans I found online are:
New Mexico Type Pit Toilet (perscribed by NMED):
http://ruratec.com/media/outhouse/new-mexico-type-pit-toilet.pdf
Casa de Dios ventilated improved pit latrine:
http://www.teamcasa.org/pdf_files/latrine.pdf
From Cottage Life Magazine:
http://cdn.cottagelife.com.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2011/05/Privy-Plan.pdf
And some sound design ideas: http://www.acacamps.org/campmag/issues/0807/stryker
I'll be substituting a USFS style fiberglass riser throne for the wood bench:
Fiberfab: 1030 West Foothill Boulevard, Azusa, CA 91702 (626) 633-0288
Far North Fiberglass: http://www.farnorthfiberglass.com/cones.html
Alcaro Plastics: http://www.alcaroplastics.com/toiletstems.html
The stainless risers are super expensive.
Thanks. I've been wondering about the fiberglass risers. Didn't do any looking though. You just saved some time. :D One of those along with some FRP panels for the walls will make clean up easier. Have you thought of what you will use for the finished floor? Ceramic tile works but most get slippery when wet.
The County is perscribing a 3" reinforced concrete slab with a slight gradient. I guess if I have to do that, I would want to make sure and seal it. I'm not too keen on the idea though... it will make moving the structure when the pit fills difficult, and I'm not so sure I would do a very good job of pouring it. See the New Mexico plans for details.
I'm trying to get an exception, and do something along the lines of a poured concrete or block perimeter foundation with 2 j bolts per side, topped by 4x4 pressure treated posts laid horizontally in a box frame, which would serve as runners in case I had to move the structure when the hold fills. On top of that 2x6 pressure treated boards, with a metal spatter shield on the bottom, marine plywood on top, sealed with marine polyurethane, and then topped with maybe linoleum if I can find some. My understanding is that linoleum has some anti-microbial properties.
Something like this (excuse the quick AI sketch):
(http://ruratec.com/media/outhouse/outhouse-foundation.jpg)
I don't know if they will allow it though.
By the way, what is a FRP panel?
Thanks for that well researched info on privy construction.
FRP = fiber reinforced plastic panels - such as http://www.marlite.com/designer-wall-systems-frp-wall-panels.aspx (http://www.marlite.com/designer-wall-systems-frp-wall-panels.aspx)
Both the local orange and blue box stores carry FRP panels. There are inside and outside corners and butt joiners available. I used that stuff to form our cabin shower (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg117515#msg117515).
I did not use the FRP corners but used plastic fake wood trim that I glued/sealed into the corners with clear silicone.
The concrete floor pan would be heavy! I hate to have to deal with that too! I wish you luck on the flexibility of the ED.
What about lightweight concrete? Pumicecrete? If it can be made with sufficient strength for a floor.
For sure, the Casa de Dios plans go into a little more detail for building a concrete floor. I ran across this on the Make blog today too:
http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/how-to-build-and-install-a-concrete-countertop/index.html#step3
Seems applicable for building a strong, lightweight concrete surface. Youtube has lots on light weight concrete too.
These illustrations show pretty well how to setup for pouring a concrete foundation:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/multimedia/image-gallery.aspx?id=64116&seq=2
http://www.motherearthnews.com/multimedia/image-gallery.aspx?id=64116&seq=3
Here is a link to a stainless steel riser. No prices are listed and I have a feeling that, when I check, it will be cost prohibitive.
http://www.bradleycorp.com/products/security/toilets/viewproduct.jsp?pgid=1301
"The original outhouse according to legend , was of great interest to a young boy and his twin brother. They had learned about the effect matches had on methane and were experimenting with the outhouse one day! Mr. Havens was not at all pleased with the result of their experiment." -- from The Havens Homestead Museum Outhouse in Ocean County New Jersey
I'm hoping mine will hold up..... Will see how moisture resistant advantex is.
I wanted a little more comfort for my family up there. One of the ladies in my family is a little intimidated by an open toilet in typical forest service pit toilets, so I used the old RV throne from our camper and put a new one in the camper.
My shed / outhouse (shouthouse) has the throne in the corner of the oversized pit, so I plumbed in a couple of short sections of PVC connected with a 45deg coupling to point the "goods" to the center of the hole.
I also built a small riser box to bring it to a more comfortable height.
The nice thing about the RV throne is that it has a shutter which really helps keep the bugs under control. After using it for a few months last year, there is no smell in the outhouse nor any bugs. I'm pretty happy with the way it is working.
I'll be even happier if I get up there and no trees have fallen upon it.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4782.msg141613#msg141613
I've seem a few people use RV type traps like you describe. How do you keep the trap door itself clean? It seems like it could be a sticking point... :o)
When do you think you will be able to get onto your property Frank? Two weeks back there still looked to be a lot of snow at 10,000 feet in the San Pedro Parks. I was looking at the Google Earth photo of your area right now and it looks about the same elevation. There's even lots of snow on the Google Earth picture! What a beut place you are.
BTW, I like your bunk beds... may have to copy them. Wish I could figure a way to keep mice out of the mattresses though.
I keep a couple of water jugs to rinse the bowl and to aid with getting the plumbing clean. My plan was to also keep a toilet brush in a small bucket with some blue RV deoderizer in case i needed to give the bowl a scrub to clean it after use, but oddly that RV shutter seems to be self cleaning and works well. We also put just a splash into the bowl after each use too.
Thanks... The bunks work out well for us. My daughters get the top bunk and my wife and i below. The top queen mattress is just a foam mattress, but the density is high enough that it is comfortable.
Snow is melting crazy fast. Last year around this time, we had about 50", this year (according to a snow tel sensor near by) we are only at 25"
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=431&state=co
I usually try to go up when the snow gauge hits zero plus two weeks. I might be able to get up late May.
I just found out that the New Mexico prescribed outhouse plans are based on the 1930's WPA "fly-proof" design:
http://stall.net/family/albums/2003/30202/30202.htm
I believe the state of the art has moved forward a bit since then. Hope I can convince NMED.
Fibrefab "Taza" Toilet riser. Available from:
Fibrefab
1030 W. Foothill Bl
Azusa CA
+1 (626) 633-0288
Cost was $140, plus about another $40 to ship (July 2012). Greg at Fibrefab has been super helpful!
(http://ruratec.com/media/outhouse/fibrefab-toilet-riser.jpg)
Notes:
1. Build is very sturdy.
2. This seems meant to be embedded in a concrete floor. If you need to attach it to some other type of floor, you need to get a bit creative.
3. Holes for attaching the seat are not pre-drilled. This gives flexibility to accommodate different seats. A plastic seat is recommended as easiest to keep clean.
4. Inside is rough raw fiberglass unlike the outside which is finished. Not sure if cleaning the inside will be an issue or not. I'll be swishing it with a brush and bleach solution now and again.
5. It probably could be painted with a tough white enamel like RustOleum.
The following suggestions were made by CjAl in another thread for the Taza riser:
Quotecant see the flange well but it looks like you could trace the outline onto a larger square of wood and cut it out. fit the riser into that hole and seal with silicone then screw it to that wood from the inner flange then you could screw that wood to the top of the bench.
finerglass needs no special care to paint just sand it amd get a rattle can of your favorite color.
if you really want the inside smooth you could sand it by hand then coat it with a few layers of epoxy for fiberglass that you can get from any auto parts store, sand it smooth again and paint it.
put the epoxy on as smooth as possible. it is hard and its easier to put on then to sand off. bondo could fill any pits. i used to do body work i have done lots of fiberglass and hated every second of it.
What are peoples thoughts and experiences on using builders lime in an outhouse?
It seems to reduce odors (good), and as far as I can tell retard decomposition (bad)?
Are there any techniques people here use to both reduce the odors but encourage decomposition in a latrine pit? Extending the life of the pit would be important.
Not an expert.... but I believe good ventilation is a must. The composting toilet we have seldom ever emits odors. As long as the user closes the lid the vent stack seems to work well. I've been told that using lime will more or less ensure that a future archeologist will unearth preserved samples of poo.
Have you tried the decomposing lime?
When I buy lime for the "Baccy Patch" the people at co-op always ask which lime do I want.?
I'm told that the decomposing lime is good for compost piles but it will raise the PH. ------ Should work in an outhouse????
-J.C.-
I should change the question to: what are long-term best practices for outhouse pit maintenance? I'd like to get as lengthy a use out of the new pit as is possible, as well as keep odors down.
I'm asking the question about lime use as there seems to be difference of opinion. Lime raises PH (acidifies), and I'm not quite sure if that hastens or retards decomposition. I've seen the reference to lime fossilization of turds somewhere on the web, but it was not a convincing argument as I remember. J. Wayne Fears, in his "How to Build Your Dream Cabin in the Woods" book advocates the use of lime, but that also seems uninformed. I'm kind of at a loss not knowing much basic chemistry.
Another treatment I've heard is to pour a bucket full of water containing a dissolved yeast packet into the pit on some schedule.
Or do I just leave it alone and not treat at all?
Don-- we don't have enough experience yet to tell how well the ventelation works. In theory, the black 4" standpipe on the sunny side should pull air in through the riser and pull if out of the pit. In practice, I have no idea yet how well it works.
A tour of four outhouses. The fourth one is a piece of art
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yZfO1VcP74
Paul, could you keep us posted via this thread on how the second fellows' multi-stage outhouse composter is working out. That looks innovative.
you mean the fourth?
The multi-stage composter that is below the outhouse. Curious how well it works.
Quote from: hpinson on September 23, 2012, 10:04:51 PM
The multi-stage composter that is below the outhouse. Curious how well it works.
From the video: 2000 uses, still nothing has come out the bottom.
My theory is that it can compost down to just ash. Each time it moves down, it is effectively "turned".
I "compost" does end up in the last bin, I would guess that they might have to go over 5000 uses to get a shovelful.
Thanks Paul.
I was wondering-- did you notice any odor problems at the head?
There is a similar system in use near Gila Hot Springs, in New Mexico, where waste is pulled along by a home-made chain-driven rake. It smells pretty bad at the head. There are no partitions and volume of use is much higher.
This seems like a very interesting application of composting.
none of these had odor.
We use a "modified moldering privy" design from the NPS. The results have been amazing. There is intermittant, 2 person use at the cabin during summer and fall seasons only. The modified privy design is only slightly elevated but the base is well ventilated and there is only a shallow hole supporting the "Aerobic" concept of composting working best between 40-90 DEGF. We sprinkle a very small amount of rough sawdust after a weekend of use, definitely no lime. We use the RV style quick decomposing paper. In six months all evidence of use is gone, no residue hardly and no smell. It seems to work well with this amount of use.
Why doesn't someone tell Bill gates about this sort of thing? I swear, they are coming up with the most BS high-tech toilets, that few could ever practically afford to build or maintain, when this sort of technology is right in front of their noses.
Moldering Privy:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12710423/Moldering-Privy
Winner of the Bill and Melinda Gates Toilet Reinvention Contest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=eVQaMsvBLb8&nomobile=1