Is this cut OK for getting the ridge venting?
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4866/ventpk6.jpg)
That is ... when cutting my rafters, I don't cut to the corner. Leaving a half inch of rafter not plumb. That way the sheathing will not touch the ridge (giving me a vent at the ridge).
I don't really need this yet because my shed (current practice project) won't be insulated/ ceiling finished. But I wanted to practice the way the house would be.
Thanks,
Mark
BTW - metal roof.
Just cut your sheathing 1 1/2 " short of the ridge center beam , no added cuts to the rafters. Metal roof you can cut the sheathing 2" short . Use a good core vent made for metal roofing , metal ridge vents have been known to leak in wind driven rain storms.
If you have a tallish standing seam roof all the more important that the venting strip touchs in the "valleys" of the standing seam.
QuoteJust cut your sheathing 1 1/2 " short of the ridge center beam , no added cuts to the rafters. Metal roof you can cut the sheathing 2" short .
So I calculated the roof sheathing to be 12' (3 sheets) ridge to eave. So I thought I might avoid cutting them all together. Assuming I am plumb, square, and have no twist, cup, etc in the ridge or rafters ;)
But I wondered if a standard ridge cap/vent thing would fit if I did that. It seems it would be 'wider' than what you mentioned ~3" instead of ~2.
I can do it either way. I was looking for the easiest solution that wouldn't bit me later.
Thanks,
Mark
Some ridge caps are quite wide.
We used to have about a 4 to 6 inch gap with about a 12" wide ridge cap.
So Glenn that big gap on a house? Or a pole barn?
The big gap IMO can create a few different problems ,
#1 : Rain , wind blown = leaky roof= bad >:(
#2: Big gap = birds , bees , rats , bats etc all can get in . Sure if your roof is a steep pitch and no trees are around the crawlers , rats may not get in BUT this past winter we spent a bunch of hours , read $$$$$ taking all the insulation out of a attic , screwing on from inside the attic heavy hardware cloth ( read 1/4" mesh wire ) due to Norwiegn rats eating the lighter nylon "Big screening) under a meatl roof ridge cap , hip roof lots of trees , tree hugger / bird , squirell , racoon , etc etc feeding gun toating home owner. The feed drew the rats the trees gaveum access. Dag things either eat the sheetrock or make beds in it , they hard dug out LOTS of little holes a few came thru the paint in the bathroom which is how they where found out.
#3: The bees , birds also love a opening air does not need mile of opening to flow out of , critters have may have a harder time finding a smaller hole.
#4 : All that calcuating your dooing know is good theroy , you'll see what ya really have when ya get there.
I leave a 1 1/2" slot each side , no leaks , no rats , etc etc . YMMV.
Good luck , PEG
We've been debating whether or not we need to install box vents in our metal roof.. A ridge vent wasn't an option for our particular type of roofing. We have a vaulted ceiling, with about 4'' of ventilation space between the insulation and the metal roofing. Also, our ceilings do not run up to a peak in the inside, if you know what I mean.. We have ties near the top of the rafters, and a miniature attic type space above the insulation there. We have vents all along the soffits of the roof, and a good vapor barrier on the inside. Taped all the seams as best as we could.. Our roof is just a simple gable, 44' long at a 10/12 pitch.
I would feel better with the added ventilation of the box vents, but really hate the idea of cutting into our industrial-grade, standing seam metal roof.. All of the panels are pre-caulked and crimped together, so replacing a single sheet that you accidentally cut the wrong sized hole in is close to impossible. Very, veeery close to impossible... :-/
PEG, that gap was on our steel buildings with optional 10' ridge vents able to be placed anywhere.
The ridge cap all had die cut rubber closures on both sides and it was screwed down under the cap. We never had any problems with it.
It may not apply so well to a house.
QuoteWe've been debating whether or not we need to install box vents in our metal roof.. A ridge vent wasn't an option for our particular type of roofing. We have a vaulted ceiling, with about 4'' of ventilation space between the insulation and the metal roofing. Also, our ceilings do not run up to a peak in the inside, if you know what I mean.. We have ties near the top of the rafters, and a miniature attic type space above the insulation there. We have vents all along the soffits of the roof, and a good vapor barrier on the inside. Taped all the seams as best as we could.. Our roof is just a simple gable, 44' long at a 10/12 pitch.
I would feel better with the added ventilation of the box vents, but really hate the idea of cutting into our industrial-grade, standing seam metal roof.. All of the panels are pre-caulked and crimped together, so replacing a single sheet that you accidentally cut the wrong sized hole in is close to impossible. Very, veeery close to impossible... :-/
Air would definitely move through better if you currently have nothing up there. It comes in the soffits - heats - rises but sounds like no where to go if no ridge vents.
Yes, that is my concern.. There are vents in the soffits on either side of the house, at the peak, though. Would this cross-ventilation disperse the air up there?
Quote
Yes, that is my concern.. There are vents in the soffits on either side of the house, at the peak, though. Would this cross-ventilation disperse the air up there?
I take it thats NONE at the peak? Bad deal , you could be setting up for mold under the sheathing ,could you add gable end vents in that little attic space you mentioned ? That would be better than nothing.
I keep messing up my train of thought, jumping back and forth on these topics... ;D
At least we're still talking about vents... That makes it easier. Yes, I wanted to put gable vents on the....gables. But it ended up being easier just to put a few more soffit vents in that area, and I think they do the same job.
We have no solid sheathing under the metal. I suppose that could lead to frost if any vapor made it's way up to it.. Like I said, we did the best job we could on our vapor barrier, but I'm just not sure what to expect with all of this...
Gable ends Ernest , the peak area of the end wall. Those soffit vents your taking about are at the eaves right ? Where your gutters and facia boards are ?
Do you have enclosed rake soffits? The part of the roof following the rafters up the slope?
You may be mixing and matching different terms which is confusing the hell outta me ;D
A gable end vent goes in the side wall up by the roof peak , one in each "gable end wall" .
Gable end vent above the front door and bay window , octagonal shaped .
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/mar278.jpg)
Is that the type vent you mean? Or similar.
You are talking soffit vents at the top of the gable? :-?
Is your ridge vent sealed tightly or can it vent under it too? Did I fail to read close enough? :-/
Ok, yeah, I'm mixing my terms up... :-[ Darn, it's just so unprofessional of me. ;)
Vents in the "enclosed rake soffit" is what I meant all along. (We have vents at the eves as well.)
QuoteYou are talking soffit vents at the top of the gable.
Is your ridge vent sealed tightly or can it vent under it too? Did I fail to read close enough? :-/
Yes , Maybe , I Think , ah well no , ah , ahahhhaa :-/ :'( :'( ;D
Think nothing of it --- helps PEG a bunch but I'm lucky I remembered it was called a gable. ;D
QuoteYou are talking soffit vents at the top of the gable? :-?
Is your ridge vent sealed tightly or can it vent under it too? Did I fail to read close enough? :-/
No fair! I can't type fast enough to keep up... (All the letters on the keys are worn off... A real pain. :) )
No sure what you mean about the ridge vent.. We have none. The ridge cap is sealed tightly.. Every joint is caulked with butyl tape. The j-channels at the ridge accept the roofing panels, and the cap comes down over the tops of the j-channels.
I'm stupid -- I meant ridge cap. :-?
We used to have a flat ridge cap that only contacted the tops of the high ribs. Rubber closures were used to seal between the flat cap and the low part of the sheet. Removing the rubber seal could create a vent space that could be screened if desired. We usually installed a big 10' ridge vent over the top of the ridge on shops though.
Well, our particular metal roofing has 3'' high ribs, so you'd be asking for a lot leaking if you did that... :-/
Yeah - there are a million types of roofing - different situations and remedies for each one.
How about a ventilation cupola? Probably wouldn't fit your scheme.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/cupola_small.jpg)
Mmm.. Yeah, we're not typically picky people when it comes to looks, but I don't think it would work... :-/
Thanks for all the help! Gotta be duckin' out, though.. 2:00 am is about all I can handle. :P
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#1: We have a vaulted ceiling, with about 4'' of ventilation space between the insulation and the metal roofing. Also, our ceilings do not run up to a peak in the inside, if you know what I mean..
#2: We have ties near the top of the rafters, and a miniature attic type space above the insulation there.
#3: We have vents all along the soffits of the roof, and a good vapor barrier on the inside. Taped all the seams as best as we could.. Our roof is just a simple gable, 44' long at a 10/12 pitch.
#4: I would feel better with the added ventilation of the box vents,
Start here Ernie
#1: You do have acontinous path for air venting in that 4" space , thats good .
#2: That little attic could you add a vent in both gable ends that would allow cross venting of that space? If so your golden as the soffit vents will allow air up the added "gable end vents " will allow air out perfect , almost flow. Doable 8-)
#3: You have soffit venting at the eaves , thats good , air can flow over the insulation up to the peak into that now gable end vented attic space .
#4 : Whats a Box vent? Do you mean a roof jack / vent??
I'm not sure if they're typically called "box vents", but I'm just talking about those square vent units that put down over a hole in your roof..
As far as the gable vent goes, we only have about a foot from the top of the insulation to the ridge beam. On the gables, we have 8x8 posts centered in the walls, supporting the ridge beam... With that post in the way, there's little room for a vent, even a smaller one on either side of it.. :-/
They're called roof jacks , at least thats the right most common name for them ,
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/310N2X3XW5L._SS500_.gif)
Back to your lil attic , [highlight]ANY[/highlight] air flow you can get thru there is better than none. Even if those vents are small , or you build a bump out say a couple of inch's to accomdate the projection on a triangular type gable end vent to miss that ridge post would be a improvement.
(http://www.architecturaldepot.com/images/prod/FTRLV48X12.jpg)
Link : http://www.architecturaldepot.com/c/gable-vent-triangle/
That one does not appear to be adjustable , but if you hunt around you'll find one , you should vent that space, but thats up to you.
G/L PEG
How easy would it be to fashion those gable vents from wood ourselves?
Depends I made my own , so it depends , If you have to ask MTL it could mean they'd be hard. Harder than say for me which I'd think the level would be basic . So It depends
Are there any basic design principles one should follow? I think I could make them pretty easily, if I had some plans or something.. We have a compound miter saw, so the angles aren't a problem.
I can't say I've ever seen plans. However, keeping in mind that as well as providing ventilation (which you could accomplish with a hole) the other design criteria is to exclude rainfall as well as insects, birds and rodents.
So behind the louvering be certain to install metal insect screening for the bugs and small birds as well as hardware cloth (1/4 inch or smaller) for the rodents.
Other than that I can't think of anything else. Oh, follow whatever your local guidelines are for so many sq. in. of vent space per 100/1000 sq. ft.
If you are using exposed fastener metal roofing, the company probably offers different width ridge caps. I used abc metal roofing (American Building Components) AmeriDrain profile.
Page 7 of their online trim and accessories catlog has the ridge cap options:
http://www.abcmetalroofing.com/abcroofing/pdf/catalog_29gauge.pdf
As far as venting, I have read some opinions that state the best way to vent with certainty that you are providing sufficient venting is to have a mechanical venting system (ie. exhaust fans and the like).
Then there is the no-venting argument. My roof here in Northeast Vermont is not vented and is insulated with closed cell foam. There will be no insulation above the top floor ceiling.
Now, this question has just entered my mind: with a non-vented roof like mine, should there be venting between the top floor living space and the attic space so as to promote air exchange between the two areas to make the conditioned attic space even *more* like the living space below it?
Tom
We have hidden fasteners in our roof..
As far as a mechanical venting goes, we would rather stay away from electrically-powered doo-dads, as we are striving to be "off the grid".. I know that small solar panels are always an option, but the more complicated the system gets the more likely you will have to run to the store to buy parts if/when things fail..
Mt D , Ernie's got other issues so any venting would be better than nuttin.
Some 4 " thru wall vents tucked uo there one on each side of center , could work as well . They are pretty low profile . Is the palce sided yet?
The gable has skip sheathing on the outside, and we will be installing cedar shakes soon. If I had to make cutouts for the vent, I'd have to add braces behind the 1x3's to secure them around the opening.
Ok Ernie , you really don't want to vent the area so I'll tell you what you want to hear ." It will be fine the way it is !"
I'm telling you something I don't beleive is true but ................. nuttin else seems to be working :'( And yanno it could be fine , maybe :-/ Time will tell.
G/L with those shakes :)
Well, how is time going to tell? :) I'd rather go through the extra hassle than end up with permanent moisture damage to the roof structure... It wouldn't be "impossible" to add the gable vents, just difficult because of the situation we have. If it really means a big difference, I think it would be worth it to try and add them.
Quote
#1: Well, how is time going to tell? :)
#2: It wouldn't be "impossible" to add the gable vents, just difficult because of the situation we have. If it really means a big difference, I think it would be worth it to try and add them.
#1: It looks some thing like this ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/June65.jpg)
" Time will tell ", that is . This isn't exactly your situation ,but for pure shock value it's a good example of the basic "time will tell" analogy ;D
#2: I've given you at least 4 options , you have found away around each one suggested. You will have to put on your best Ernest T. Bass thinking cap to put whats been offered to good use.
Boring two each 4 " dia. holes for a thru wall vent shouldn't be a problem , if it is , modify yor specific situation to" Decieve , degrade and destroy" any and all "stopping " forces in your way.
(http://www.amv83.net/navycag/vaq/CVN71%20VAQ-141%20Shadowhawks%20CAG.jpg)
Thats the ole squardon motto BTW , Decieve , degrade , destroy! Works in other situations as well.
G/L PEG
Andrew, one thing to keep in mind is that hot air will carry much more moisture than cool air. After it heats and carries the moisture to the top, it will cool in the evening. If it doesn't have a place to flow to while at the top ie: out a vent, it will drop the moisture where it is as the dew point drops below its capacity to carry it's load of water. Hard to guess where that will be but it could be a point like in the picture PEG posted.
Vents at the top will allow it to continue on it's merry way and render it harmless. Waiting to see what happens will take a while -then you can repair the damage if any. Installing vents may prevent any damage. Since you asked I am sure you have concerns about it yourself. :)
Ernie heres a example of Decieve , degrade , destroying a problem.
DW just had rotator cuff repair surgery yesterday, so she's "one handed" left only for about 6 weeks , or so sez the Doc.
Well our lazy boy recliners are both RH models , if they make a LH model I don't know , but for a temp fix for her to raise and lower the foot rest I ask for Ideas on wooden boat forum and one outside the box thinking guy came up with a pipe idea.
So off to Home Despot for sch 40 elec. conduit , which fits very nice on a lazy boy brand handle , well two trips really :-[
And here you have a adapted L/B ,
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug23rd2007.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug23rd20071.jpg)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug23rd20072.jpg)
As you can see it hits the floor when the rest is down , but to be long enought to reach around to grab that was the lenght it needed to be .
D, D ,& D your issues ;)
Peg, if that is a cup holder you added, I want one!
Gotta love the simplicity of that design.
And I hate to sound like a broken record but.....Icynene with no vent..problem solved.!
Okie Bob
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And I hate to sound like a broken record but.....Icynene with no vent..problem solved.!
Lil late for that Bob I think Ernie's all insulated and IIRC sheetrocked , I doubt he wants to rip that all out and start over.
Good stuff Icynene , we've used it in " special " places . Spendy , but sometimes it all that will work in a remodel for new work a guy should be able to weight the costs and decide IF it's the best bang for the buck .
You are so right Peg, it is not for everyone and is expensive. My little house cost way more than I had wanted to pay but, I do like everything about it. The noise deadening is almost worth the price by itself and I can't hear worth a flip. Hope I'm right and it pays for itself soon.
Okie Bob
Well, our criteria when it came to choosing and insulation material was cheap, natural, diy, and cheap. :) We insulated our 1200 sq. ft. ceiling to R-38 for around 400 bucks w/ cellulose. I wanted to go dense-pack, as that would eliminate the need for ventilation, but then you'd need a specially trained installer and we have none around here that I know of..
What exactly is a thru-wall vent? Kinda like a dryer vent?
As far as installing the jack vents go.. How many do you think we'd need? 2 on either side, within a few feet of the peak? I think those would be the best solution to my problem, but I'm just so scared to cut into that roof... :o What would be the most leak-proof way to install one? Just put lots of caulk around the hole and use lots of screws?
Quote
What exactly is a thru-wall vent? Kinda like a dryer vent?
As far as installing the jack vents go.. How many do you think we'd need? 2 on either side, within a few feet of the peak? I think those would be the best solution to my problem, but I'm just so scared to cut into that roof... :o What would be the most leak-proof way to install one? Just put lots of caulk around the hole and use lots of screws?
AHRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHH Ernest T. your just pullinmy chain right! ::)
(https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Feb9th2.jpg)
The little black thing is a thru wall / thru roof vent, [highlight]on the new Cedar siding above the window to the left behind the tree [/highlight], generally they are used for exhaust fans and 4" pipe gets hooked to the 4" plastic pipe sorta deal that sticks into the house. They also have a flapper door , which you should bust off, easy to do, then you'd have a 4" hole for air to flow out . I'd put 2 each on either side of center on each end .
(http://www.ventingdirect.com/imagebase/Broanimages/636AL.JPG)
QuoteQuote
What exactly is a thru-wall vent? Kinda like a dryer vent?
As far as installing the jack vents go.. How many do you think we'd need? 2 on either side, within a few feet of the peak? I think those would be the best solution to my problem, but I'm just so scared to cut into that roof... :o What would be the most leak-proof way to install one? Just put lots of caulk around the hole and use lots of screws?
AHRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHH Ernest T. your just pullinmy chain right! ::)
Ummm... And how is that? :-? ;D
Paul, I have a question, not related to this venting thing. The photo you posted raised a question. The house pictured has a roof with a curved surface. Not sure what that's called. Also not sure how is that constructed... buy the rafter material at HD taking the stuff no one else wants?? ;D ;D Seriously, to satisfy my curiosity how's it done.
Here is a kind of sloppy example of how to do commercial vents at the ridge.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/vent.jpg)
QuotePaul, I have a question, not related to this venting thing. The photo you posted raised a question. The house pictured has a roof with a curved surface. Not sure what that's called. Also not sure how is that constructed... buy the rafter material at HD taking the stuff no one else wants?? ;D ;D Seriously, to satisfy my curiosity how's it done.
It's a kit type house built in 1981 IIRC orginal owners still live there. They use a laminated bowed rafter set up , we never cut into the old roof , but thats what the plan said . At least the truss's came from a kit type place . This link is a similar setup unlikely it's the same outfit that did the org. house.
http://www.bowhouse.com/
Ernest T. , why ya wastin my time ::) :(
QuoteHere is a kind of sloppy example of how to do commercial vents at the ridge.
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/vent.jpg)
Maybe I'm not being clear , the vent goes in the gable end side wall , NOT ON THE ROOF!
Instead of a trianglar vent , put one each common old vent on either side of the king post holding up the ridge .
I give up :'( I have failed the whole forum :'( I suck :'(
;D ;) Or yous guys can't read , or see for that matter , humm, I like that better ;D
Noooo - you haven't failed, PEG. I understood your posting for the gable end vent. It was clear to me. Holes in the endwall with vent caps installed in them.
I was just answering the other part of the question if I read it right -- seems he wanted to know about how to do ridge vent jacks too. :)
QuoteAs far as installing the jack vents go.. How many do you think we'd need? 2 on either side, within a few feet of the peak?
Quote
I was just answering the other part of the question if I read it right -- seems he wanted to know about how to do ridge vent jacks too. :)
quote]
Well roof jacks like that, installed up close or under a metal ridge cap is going to leak , very bad idea. IMO. YMMV.
I'm not sure what Ernest wants or is asking any more , I really think he's just %$#*&^% around with me / us >:( Maybe I'm wrong and he just doesn't get it , but I don't know how to explain it any better. :'( And my fingers are sore from typing :(
OK -- so now we also know why you didn't want to use that type vent too. :)
I think Ernest is just having a problem getting it all straight due to the vagueness of the internet medium and the problems of expressing oneself via typing short messages back and forth, -- no mal-intent. :)
....and just look at how much your typing skills have improved over the last couple of years. ;D
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....and just look at how much your typing skills have improved over the last couple of years. ;D
Ya and my speelins gettin better as well ;D, but I do spend a lot of time editing >:(
Since I started using Firefox with its spell checker I don't edit as much. But editing is still a too frequent occurrence. ::)
I did it just now!
Firefox corrects your typing as you do it - underlines in red as you type it wrong and gives you right click choices for the right word -- or sometimes depending on how bad the speeling error was --- a word that is totally out of this world. ;D
Dang Don -- great minds, eh???? :-? ;D
I do love those weird off-the-wall corrections it comes up with at times!
And yes. :) :) :)
I don't need no darned spell checker ! The one I had before I updated I/E was nice . F/F was bomb for me it only lasted about 2 days and unloading it was a PITA. Just quit working IIRC.
That one you sent me Glenn that beeped or danged what ever it was drove me nuts with the noise so I do it the old fashion was , I look words up in Funk & Wagnalls ;D So add that to poor typing skills and poor spelling basics / skills , words that are some what alike , seems / seams , , that why I really like lead, ya can' go wrong , is it a metal or the dog in front , or maybe in back of the dog pack .
Gad nite all , Ernie you better not be bustin my nads eh ;D
...but where has all of this led you to, PEG. :-? Led Zeppelin music plays in the background, as PEG checks out yet another problem word.
... and Tinyspell -- the one I sent you -- I'm sure if I recall correctly you can turn the dinger off in options. Then it will just sit there turning yellow waiting for you to check out the proper word from a big list of possible words. G'night, PEG. ;D
Hey guys, not to beat a dea horse but, I think maybe I caused the problem about the thru wall vent. I refered to it in my previous post trying to answer the original question.
What I was talking about was my fireplace vent for a direct vent fireplace...as I recall it being named.
If you go to my blog and scroll all the way down to the very last picture, you'll see how my firebox is framed into the wall and the vent comes up about 4' then makes a 90 degree turn into (thru) the wall. This is a double wall vent pipe made especially for this application. It is about 9" OD with about a 5" OD inner pipe. One sucks fresh combustion air in and the other exhausts out. No big deal.
I only bring it up to hopefully confuse everyone even more!
Okie Bob
Peg, I agree..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I don't see where the confusion lies... I'm simply exploring my options, trying to find a solution that will be effective, leak-proof and (somewhat) easy to install. There's no need to get impatient.. If you've got better things to do, (like trying to find a decent spell checker... ::)), don't bother answering my questions.
I thank you all for the help you have offered. If the jack vents are going to be leaky anyway, I guess I'll look into venting the gables.
Thanks again,
Andrew
I think it is wise to explore all options then see what the best solution is for you, Andrew. I have no problem with that. Questions just bring out answers that we may never have gotten to otherwise. Thanks for posting here. :)