CountryPlans Forum

I thought this would be a good topic to post odd but useful ideas under related to building even if for a backwoods shelter, utility shed etc.  A place for useful methods used in the near past to ancient past that you don't commonly see today.  Who knows when we may be trying to figure out a useable method for some sort of shelter possibly for animals - junk -- or shade?  These types of structures can be very iinteresting.

I started looking at John's timeline posting and searching- got sidetracked - then came up with this picture of an old California oil derrick and related buildings.  Note the clapboard roofing.  Picture posted under fair use.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/hi-res.jpg)

This is listed as a 1941 Maricopa Branch Library - Dutch Hip roof with 2 Dormers?

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/kel0042a.jpg)

External diagonal bracing.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/hi-res-1.jpg)

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/

Thousands of California photos archived here - most under fair use.

Note the classic Coarsegold stampmill showing clerestory windows, shingle roofing and board and bat siding.  Note is a sloping shed roof covering multiple downhill levels.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/maf0028a.jpg)

This appears to be board and bat roofing over a tent that has been raised and fastened to a wood stemwall.  Note the purlins laid flat to fasten the boards to.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/tpp0162a.jpg)

Here is one that looks to be coursed adobe or same as cob.  Noted are Indians in the Tejon area.  

See how the door jambs appear to be fastened to 3 wood blocks that are built into the wall.  The left side of the picture appears to be a wattle and daub addition to the house.  Roofing appears to be boards lapped as shingles over flat purlins.

It looks like this house has had an addition on each end -- board ridge cap in the center then shingle boards extended one side on the rest - both ends.  Right side appears to be an animal shelter made of local materials.

I am guessing that the ladder on the hitching rail in  the foreground is to assist the ladies in getting on their horse.  What an imagination. :-/

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/kew0004a.jpg)

Note -These are fairly high res pictures and you can get the zoom function on Firefox to blow them up for a better view.

Hmm.   The adobe people seem to call wood blocks the same size as the adobe bricks "gringo blocks."  Might not be true in this area!

It's possible those are adobe blocks but looked pretty smooth- not much sigh of a mu mortar joint -- maybe they were good crafts people.  The Tejon area had a US military presence there in the early days - I am assuming this is built by the indigenous people though - not sure.  Mexican miners had been up here before this time also.

Interesting also to note how few trees are in the photos . Either they cut down and used the local wood or hauled it in .

There's some old photos at a local surveyers office here that shows the local area  about 1910 IIRC , almost no trees are shown where now lots are growing . So some progress has been made on that front.

 Love that diagonal "bracing" you pointed out. Some times I miss the obvious ::)

Old pictures around here are treeless and even brushless - miners fires - mine timbers and wood buildings that were forever burning down took their toll.

Here's a good one, not odd just a bit different.
http://earthsci.org/education/fieldsk/container/container.html

There was a farmer near our other house who put a gable roof over two containers with a space between them - made a nice lockable shop with room to work on equipment while out of the weather.

Nice looking container building.

If you work in or even near a port, I understand they are pretty easy to acquire.

I am really intrigued by container building, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to insulate them.  Not an issue some places, but it definitely is here in New England.

Jonsey's link is interesting and in a very mild climate would be great.

For cold or hot climates the story is different. Metal buildings in general are difficult to insulate properly and therefore are better used as shops or storage buildings. Standard metal building insulation leaves cold spots and often this results in condensation, rusting, staining and dripping.

To do a proper job of insulation you want to build a cavity out of pieces of wood so you can fill it with inexpensive full thickness insulation and still have something to nail an interior finish to. Framing lumber works well for this.

You probably get the point... When you are done you have built a regular house inside the container and are using it as fancy siding.

There is spray applied insulation which is used on outside face of some commercial buildings.  Usually used over masonry.  The spray application rids of condensation problems and should deaden some noise.  Could have it sprayed in town and then drag the whole container to the woods.  You would have to check the off gases; might be harmful indoors.
I once heard of spray applied roofing for reroofing jobs, which is insulation and waterproofing.  This could be applied to the exterior.  Sorry I don't have the sources.

Good suggestion Rover:

Icyene (http://www.dwyersspecialty.com/icynene_oldhouse.htm) insulation would be a good choice (relatively expensive and must be done by licensed installer). You still have to cover the insulation though.  :-[

I think this is in Wales, and apparently is strawbale, cob, underground. Interesting.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d163/jwvastine/682b.jpg)

Judy

 Very "Cool" design, The shape of that wall would work as a great breeze catcher and funnel fresh air into the structure.

This may be the strangest little building I have ever put together. Waste not, want not I guess. At one time I participated in a sealed bid school auction and purchased a quantity of scrap metals for $20 or so. The roof for this building was part of the plunder. In a former life it was kind of a flying saucer looking piece of playground equipment supported by 4 2" pipe posts. The floor and ceiling are 5' diameter wire spool ends covered with AC plywood. Wall studs are 2 X 3's nailed aroud the perimeter of the spool ends. Siding is 1/8" masonite wrapped around the circle. Found within is a composting toilet. The masonite siding suffered a couple of dings on the ride to the mountains where this strange looking edifice resides.
(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7700/roundbuildingzj9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Nice clever little building Desdawg!

That should at least get the coveted [highlight]"Glenn-K Award"[/highlight] for the most creative use of scrounged materials.  :D

I am impressed. :)

I've had many fantasies of what I would do, given a batch of big enough cable reels.

Not  much goes to waste around here. Some people recycle aluminum cans, I am into bigger stuff.   ;)

That's quite a "can"!

QuoteThat's quite a "can"!

That it is. Literally. And this is quite a site. I come here and confess to all my wierd ideas and projects. Instead of being ostracized like I was afraid might happen I get a highly coveted award. How cool is that? Thanks John! I think I am going to like it here.

Hey John -- the dude on the glenn K award is a handsome friend of the family -- I'm much uglier. :)

Here's an official awards picture with me standing on top of the roof by the cupola.  I have been told I look like a movie star in this photo-- 007 maybe?

desdawg-that is a great use of "stuff". I love taking things that others throw away and making something useful.

Glenn, the pic needs to be bigger-that could be anyone-or was that part of the plan? :-/

Judy

Planned that way Judy -- no one can look upon my full brilliance and live. :-/

Thanks jwv. I have been reading your blog. Heck, we are almost neighbors. I am south of Maricopa (City of) about 18 miles. From Tucson go north to I-8, then west to Highway 84 (25-30 miles) then north again about 5 miles. And there I am, a Sonoran Desert misfit. The area is called Hidden Valley, about 25 miles west of Casa Grande. I am amazed that you can function within the constraints of the dreaded HOA. (+ crossed fingers to ward off the evil spirits) Your house is looking good. We "enjoy" the same climate. Can't beat it in the winter but the summers are really getting old for me. Been doing it since '85. My other place is in Bridge Canyon outside of Seligman, AZ. About 20 degrees cooler most of the time. Anyway, I digress. Keep up the good work on that straw bale. I would like to learn the earth plastering techniques myself sometime.

Quote
Glenn, the pic needs to be bigger-that could be anyone-or was that part of the plan? :-/

Judy

Now we know what happened to Winchester from MASH!
(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d163/jwvastine/Stiers.jpg)

...no one can look upon my full brilliance and live

We have shades [smiley=cool.gif]

Judy

Close Judy.

The real problem is that I don't take pictures of myself and of the ones I don't take I can't find any good ones. :-/

When you win a prestigous award certain responsibilities come with the package. Therefore this "Glenn-K Award" winning building recently got a facelift:
(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8306/laundrybuildingsided2qw6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Actually I had the winning bid on a quantity of metal siding at an auction a while back and decided this would be a worthy use for some of that material. Last summer I installed a small septic system on the property so the never used composting toilet will be removed and this building will now house a generator powered stacked washer and dryer combo. The dryer may come in handy on rainy days but for the most part I will be using a solar powered clothes dryer (aka clothes line).  I recently returned from spending 10 days on an alleged deer hunt and got lots of little odd jobs done while I was there. Brige Canyon is truely magnificent country in northern AZ and I didn't really want to come back. Not really really, but duty called. This is a picture I took while hunting:
(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9365/panoramicviewtm4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

A true testament to my glory, desdawg.  Beauty, eh?

It will henceforth be known as the Kansiger Building. Come and do a load of laundry anytime if you want Glenn.  :)

Glenn:

There are very few people in the world who have had a circular metal laundry room named after them.

We are all honored to be in the presence of one of them!

I named my well  and well house for my attorney after he won me 22K for being hit by a car in my wheelchair crossing the street(long story) but the Lawrence Johnson Memorial Well House is no where near this splendid.  Im curious how did you frame the building?  I assume those are 3' wide panels of metal roofing.  It reminds me of some swedish dovecotes I have seen.  Any chance of a peek inside to see the interior framing? And the roof looks like one solid piece, like a giant garbage can lid?

I am only a little disappointed that it's not still a toilet that is being named after me. :-/

"I gotta take a trip to the 'glenn'".  Nah, doesn't have that familiar ring.

JRR, earlier in this thread I posted the following:
This may be the strangest little building I have ever put together. Waste not, want not I guess. At one time I participated in a sealed bid school auction and purchased a quantity of scrap metals for $20 or so. The roof for this building was part of the plunder. In a former life it was kind of a flying saucer looking piece of playground equipment supported by 4 2" pipe posts. The floor and ceiling are 5' diameter wire spool ends covered with AC plywood. Wall studs are 2 X 3's nailed aroud the perimeter of the spool ends. Siding is 1/8" masonite wrapped around the circle. Found within is a composting toilet. The masonite siding suffered a couple of dings on the ride to the mountains where this strange looking edifice resides.
I can probably take a picture of the interior next time I am at the property. Gee Glenn, I thought you would be happy that I was going to remove the shi**er and replace it with laundry facilities. Now I will have to rethink the whole deal.  :-/ I don't want to dishonor the benefactor of such a prestigous award.

Desdawg:  Thanks for the description, about what I figured.  And I remember those flying saucer things well, our grade school had one on the playground.  Is the siding 1/8" masonite or metal siding.  Either would work.  The building looks almost as if it was sided with beadboard.

GLENN:  I kinda like the sound of "A trip to the Glenn". Brings to mind the moors of Scotland and visions of Braveheart leaping from Tor to Tor on his way to the "glenn."  And think what a nice title it would make for a travel book?  I think its a keeper...... ::) ;)

I hope "John" doesn't feel left out...  ::)  :D

Ahhhh -- yesss --- it has a nice ring to it.  Maybe more of a rap to it but a noise none the less. :-/

(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/kathykrn/HD30b.jpg)

Urban Cactus
(http://archidose.blogspot.com/2006/10/half-dose-30-urban-cactus.html)
Found a link to this interesting & attractive apartment complex in Rotterdam

Here's another picture

(https://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/kathykrn/HD30c.jpg)

 :o Wow! That had to be an engineering feat of magic.

And I thought building a 20 x 34 was challenging!!!!  I now look at my new project in a new light.

Those pictures appear to be of an architects model -- I wonder if it's actually been built?  Interesting concept, anyway!

My interesting idea is to use pallet lumber to build a 'round' (or rounded) post and shore underground house like Mike Oehler's book talks about.

Kathleen

I guess you already have the book then. :)

One thing you won't find in it is sidewall support information.  I found through trial and error that 2x material will span 8 feet with backfill lightly tamped by hand or 1x material will span 4 feet so your posts could be spaced on 4' centers to use your pallets and hold back the fill.  No guarantees but that is what worked for me,  The pallets would actually be stronger than 1x material which is good.  #4' spacing should work better for your rounded structure.

This is called low impact building by the builder.  Check it out for great natural building ideas.  -Note - the picture below is real

Take me to Simondale (http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm)

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/candle.jpg)

Hmm.  I'm familiar with the saga of Tony Wrench.  This guy has an interview with him.  Seems to be a definite generation gap here.
Here's Wrench's website, with the endless battles he's had with codes and, especially planning, latest decision supposed to be sometime in mid-month http://www.thatroundhouse.info/

A lot prettier and less wild looking.

Some nice links--like this one--they're really really stingy with thumbnails--and even less wild looking--if more authentic in this case--than Simon's:

http://www.caemabon.co.uk/?page=296

(http://ericmaddern.co.uk/site/images/pictures/landscape_jpg890roundhouse-300.jpg)

Small world Glen, I was at that site today and copied/uploaded that picture to post in the hobbit house section.
Here are 2 more links of dwellings along those same lines

http://www.thatroundhouse.info/
http://www.lammas.org.uk./gallery.htm

I have a question on the reciprocal roof rafter system they used. I did a search but found little information. Is there a book available that discusses this type of roof?

Deana

I was wondering about the roof too, Deana.  It seems to be used in several of these linked sites.  I guess I'll have to study more.  Looks like Tony Wrench uses it.

That site was the first one I hit last night when I clicked the Stumbleupon button.

That is the neatest place.

I looked maybe three computers ago.  Found something, but it may have been the math for a model.

Wrench used dreams to design and size his timbers.

(which shows when you look at other buildings that have been built using him for inspiration--at least one looks mighty flimsy)

there once was--some years ago, and may be again there's still an "under reconstruction" page--something called http://www.outofnowhere.com/  That was probably it.  

The Shire:
Here's one on the opposite end of the financial spectrum, McMansion meets 18th century England...an upscale planned community in Bend, OR;

The pictures are wonderful.

http://www.bendshire.com/index.php?p=1&side=concept

Here is a bit of info on the reciprocal roof.

http://www.mts.net/~sabanski/pavilion/pavilion_design.htm
The Pavilion

Thanks for the link, Glen, I think that is the same one I found today. Not much out there on that roof style.

There is not any load information but the construction info gives more clues - they welded tie tubes to the outer perimeter making a band to keep from spreading.  That is the 3rd leg of the triangle.  They also built a support structure although I think you could do it with one beam supported to the ground then continue around - read in one place that the last beam then gets slipped under the first - another site I think.

That is pretty interesting. Obviously the most difficult part is holding it in place while it is being built. Which one do you put up first? The one statement you never want to hear "Here hold this while I get a nail started."  :-/ Figuring those compound angles could be a bit touchy too.

Forget figuring the angles -- use round poles and a forklift to support the center then raise or lower it until it fits.  I have no idea if that would work -- but I may be crazy enough to try it sometime. :-/

It looks really good on paper Glenn however I can visualize a lot of tricky stuff putting it together in the air. But I like the concept.

A whole bunch of very interesting reading!

The reciprocal roof looks like it might solve the problem of roofing a round structure -- IF I can figure out how to build it!  Maybe a temporary support in the middle, until the roof was framed?

Kathleen

That's the way I see it - that is what they did on the pavilion and I think Simon left a support in.  Tony Wrench has pix of the temp pole in the middle.

http://www.thatroundhouse.info/how.htm

Well -- I couldn't resist building this structure to see if it really did work.  It Does.  

I looked around the house and came up with a pack of pencils.  With nothing more than friction and leverage against each other to hold them together , here they are in all their number 2 glory.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010371_edited.jpg)

I'm glad to see that.

The only time I ever tried to do it, I was using kindling, (and, um, not supporting the first piece from the ground), and things kept sliding down.  After a few really frustrating minutes I gave up.  

And this was in front of an audience, of course.

:-[

Glenn:  You really are a mechanical marvel.  I looked at the website and studied the math and scratched my head and was still clueless.   And then there you were with your pencils and even I was able to reproduce the structure.  Ive been wanting a little round tower at my place but never could figure out the roof structure.  This might just be the solution.

QuoteWell -- I couldn't resist building this structure to see if it really did work.  It Does.  

I looked around the house and came up with a pack of pencils.  With nothing more than friction and leverage against each other to hold them together , here they are in all their number 2 glory.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/P1010371_edited.jpg)

:)  Neat!  I wouldn't have thought of doing that!

I saw that most of those roundhouses had sod roofs -- I wonder how much earth a reciprocal roof could support?  If I do end up moving back to Alaska, I'm going to want to be buried pretty deep.

Kathleen

Edited to add:  guess I'll have to do some experimenting of my own, LOL!

Alright -- everybody get out your pencils.  After I did that I set the coffee pot on top if it.  I can now say that I know it is strong enough to hold up a pot of coffee.

I think kindling should work just fine when nobody is watching, Amanda.

Sometimes I just have to try it to see how it works, Mark.  If someone else can do it I should be able to also.

QuoteNeat!  I wouldn't have thought of doing that!

That's why I get the big bucks, Kathleen.  I think that a lot of these use straw decomposing to grow things on - lighter than sod.  With much sod, you would want engineering as it gets heavy fast - 100 to 150 lbs per square foot many times - add snow load with water in it and you could have a smashing good time. :-/

According to my load charts a #2 pencil should not have carried the weight of the coffee pot. But then I don't know how many cups it holds or if it is just a glass carafe or an old aluminum pot with a basket strainer in it. I wouldn't be glueing those #2's until we have a proper design.

There is just something about it--- the excitement of knowing that at any moment I could sustain a disfiguring injury from boiling coffee... I guess it's the adrenaline rush that keeps me doing things like this.. You know I don't drink much -- I have to do something for fantique. :-/

Found this at http://www.lamafoundation.org/build/here/now2000/tour/10.html
(//%5BIMG%5Dhttps://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o61/deanah805/114.jpg)[/img]

Glen, try the coffe pot AND a coffee cup.....
(https://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o61/deanah805/116.jpg)

Looks pretty strong to me  :-)
Would this even fly with the building codes in the US especially in a zone 4 earthquake zone?

Also found a detailed description taken from the designer Graham Brown's "book" (He patented the system in the UK):
http://www.crest.org/discussion/strawbale/199809/msg00232.html

That's cool unless the girl in the picture is holding him up with her right arm. :-/

The pencils I had were from China - not sure they meet code. :)

First you use commercially produced building materials. Then you start worrying about code requirements. What next, heading into town to pull a permit?!?

One of you engineer types ought to do some testing.  But I suspect, looking at it, the reciprocal roof (properly designed and fastened together) could take an earthquake better than a standard roof.  It's really interesting to see the guy standing on the little sticks above!

Kathleen

This may be a sign of senility kicking in.  I seem to have completely dropped my standards.  I think it is time to get out the ungraded kindling and try this again.  Thanks for bringing me back to reality Bart.  I nearly lost it there and gave in to the system. :-?

bartholomew said:"First you use commercially produced building materials. Then you start worrying about code requirements. What next, heading into town to pull a permit?!?"


No,  I'm still collecting ideas/information as to what I want to incorporate into my house. Part of that research includes notations as to if it will  pass current building codes or not.  Most of what I'd like to do doesn't, so it looks like I'm going to be looking for property far away from the bureaucratic microscope.   deana

Happened to stumble on this unusual method of applying metal siding to a structure.  Sure is quick and easy and eliminates the need for purlins.  Think how nice it would be if you bought odd color lots from the bargain bin and did stripes. ;).  It sure is a nice big spacious bathroom tacked onto a tiny little cabin.  I nice galvanized horsetrough would make a dandy bathtub and continue the metal motif.

(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/sidewaysmetal.jpg)


(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/butlerboi/sidewaysmetalbath.jpg)

I hope it doesn't seriously freeze there.

I didn't think about that -- it would be bad if you stuck to the seat wouldn't it. :-/

I was thinking of a frozen and therefore busted toilet.

:o

That wasn't the picture I got in my mind. :-? :)

Neither sounds particularly pleasant.

Actually I thought of the lady who stuck her backside  to the side of her dates car, during an emergency roadside pitstop.  She won the award for the worst blind date. :o

Those shelves look pretty handy. You don't have to reach for anything. It just kind of slides your way.

LOL!  I was wondering how it would hold up in high winds!

Kathleen

I wonder exactly what the "emergency" was?  But don't tell me!!!  I don't want the current image to worsen.

It was a snowstorm - stuck on the side of the road and a long way between restrooms- not much to lean on except the side of her dates car.  

Supposedly true, but how she got loose from the side of the car, I really didn't want to put here.

Now that should have really ruined your picture. :-?

Maybe it doubles as a meat locker in cold weather.  As I remember it was somewhere in Virginia so cold weather was a factor.  And can you imagine how noisy it must be in there during a rain storm....YIPES. ;D  Still if you wanted to get shelter up quick and cheap, its an idea.

I'm afraid to fall asleep!

Hey - look here - nice stairway in Sedona, AZ.

Anybody know these folks?

Nope.

Interesting staircase, though.

QuoteHey - look here - nice stairway in Sedona, AZ.

Anybody know these folks?

Are they Australian? Never Mind!