(pic intensive!!!) A general hello and my "soon to be" underground project....

Started by jeramiez, January 29, 2011, 11:15:23 PM

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jeramiez

Hey there all,

Been lurking for a few months now, reading, learning...

I was pretty much drawn here through research related to the idea of building an underground House...  and honestly, started following Glenn K's 'underground cabin' thread, but  found a Lot of useful information spread all over the site....

I thank you all for everything I have been able to gather from you....

So, basically, a quick run down....

About 2 years ago I got really interested in the idea of minimal living... and that lasted until my external hard drive crashed and I freaked out because the laptop wasn't backed up on the desktop...  so I figured it wasn't quite for me, but while watching a TV show about refurbished missile silos turned into houses got me thinking about living underground....  seemed the kinda concept I could latch onto, and heck... it seemed the total answer to zombie proof living!!!  (small joke there!!!)

And a seed was planted....

I've been with a girl for a bit of 3 years now and I'm not quite sure if she really thinks I have some good ideas or just thinks she should humor me and let me run wild at times.... BUT.... (bless her heart) she seems good with the idea of living underground and not only gave me the go ahead to follow another half-baked idea, but actually got involved in trying to figure some stuff out....  LOL

So...  after lots of hours of on-line research, I got my hands on Mike Ohler's books and DVD set and read, re-read, watched, and re-watched...  studied lots of info on people who bury cement domes in the earth, and people who bury shipping containers in the earth, and...  well, no offense to any of the other methods, but decided to go with Mike's...  for the most part....

Next step... (in my mind) ....  a floor plan....  after lots of discussion, and sketching and talking and sketching, we settled on an idea I thought was a little big and she thought was a little small, so that would make it perfect... LOL



And then some re-working and drawing to scale....



And then came the idea of building a scale model...

Cardboard was the first effort, just to get an idea of how it would "look"









And we agreed that we liked it... but some things needed to change, so we re-thought and re-worked a bit... and liked where we were headed.... so it was time to sit back and scale up the model a bit using wood dowels and such...












We have since added walls and windows and floors to the model using PVC board and some Plexiglas, mocked up a roof using fiberboard...  could post some pics of that if anyone is interested....

But it led us to figure out some re-working of the general idea, like moving the 3 gable windows from the center hallway to 4 gable windows above each lower bedroom allowing light in and a second egress from each room... (just in case....) Moving the closet area of the lower 4 bedrooms to the 'upper' end of the rooms, also moving the stairwell to the "basement" under the circular master bedroom to the side wall to provide for a false wall in that area and hence, a "semi-secret" entrance to an underground room in an underground house... also, off the opposite wall, on the other side of the kitchen area, an off-shoot dug in pantry/root cellar.....

Which led to other ideas, see, she has 4 children, (the reason we needed the 4 lower bedrooms....) and I wasn't sure if the 1 bath at the end of the hall would accommodate 2 boys and 2 girls entering teen years for morning rituals.... so we are currently considering placing a bathroom in between each room on each side of the lower hallway allowing for a girls "powder room" and a boys "john"...  and the end of the hall could be transferred to the heating room....  I... um/we... LOL  like it to be in the mid 70's, and it would seem that all underground ideas report that the temp remains the average lower temp of the area....  fine, but if the area average is in the 50's... we definitely need more heat than A/C... and since the house is sloped on different levels, placing the heating unit... i.e. (wood stove) at the lowest point seems to make sense....

And with a firm idea in mind and something we could "see" in front of us...  it was on to looking for a place to build....

We were lucky and got a great deal on e-bay and bought a nice 14+/- acres in southern Missouri... (Her mother lives in SW MO. go figure!!!!)

The land was bought sight unseen, but with these pics... (and lots of research of the area and google earth... LOL)












So there you are...  


And since we are currently located in the great state of Texas.... (San Antonio)  and it's winter, we know that it will be a few moths before we get a chance to even drive up and walk the land and see if our ideas could eventually come to fruition on that property....


So we are left to ponder and think and plan for the year ahead....

From some real shady math and rough calculations I figure the land has a rise of 1-5 at the south and 1-6 at the top, and the house was planned with a rise of 1-4... so that's a small issue.... (though the seller has another 20 acres just south but not bordering with a good rise of 1-4 (by my S#$%@y math mind you...) but on an exact opposite ridge face... meaning....
at present, morning light would enter the gables for the lower bedrooms, and afternoon-evening light would enter the kitchen/master bedroom wall of windows and uphill patio...  (but not later evening due to the ridge to the west....) the other piece of land lays the exact opposite....  hmmm... to buy as a back up or not to buy...  that is the question.....
(or to buy secretly and build a "MANCAVE RETREAT".....  LOL  J/K)

The BIG issue....  I hear that that area of the Ozarks is mostly Clay and Bedrock...  not the best digging at all...

Well, I've got lots more to say, and a ton of questions for the knowledge base here, and of course, a bunch more pics...  

But I will save the server space until your interested in hearing/seeing more... LOL

Anyway,

I'd love to hear any comments or feedback, good or bad, that ya'll might have....

Best wishes!

Jeramie








glenn kangiser

 w* to the forum, Jeramie.  This is the best place to get ideas and answers  as everyone will chip in here.  Me too.

Please post all of the pictures you want.  Everyone here likes pictures....

Every underground house needs secret rooms and passage ways... [noidea'

Nice to see the models. Makes it a lot easier for others and yourself to visualize what is going on.  :)

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


Sassy

That's pretty cool how you made the scale models!   w*  If you build underground you'll be able to benefit from lots that we've learned to do & not to do - Glenn doesn't play w/models - he just plays w/the real thing so sometimes it's trial & error   d*  :)

Post all the pics you want - we like em!
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

jeramiez

Thanks Glenn and Sassy!!!

I will say that I definitely think the models helped a lot not only for others to visualize our idea, but for ourselves in planning to see the slight but major flaws, or rather, the NEEDED "re-evaluations of the idea"  Things seem to look good 2D on paper, then when it's 3D and in your face there can be a lot of: "um, well, hmmm, if only that was there, this would actually fit better over here, and.... "

it's currently a bit of work that keep evolving, but I hope to see it to fruition one day.....

(or I'll just end up as a guy living in my van down by the river.... LOL)

Jeramie


jeramiez

Just going back through my post and pics...

You can plainly see:

We use Lemon Scented Lysol spray kitchen cleaner, I like to go barefoot, We love Dr. Pepper, we just bought a head of lettuce and an onion, and we have a brake fluid leak.....

wow, the stuff you learn about people online... LOL


glenn kangiser

I started out in a horse trailer (w/RV built in) ..then a motorhome but quickly moved underground as it was too cold above ground.... :)


Caught some of that..... rofl

As you continue posting you will watch camera angles like I do to keep the 6 extension cords in one plug from showing (my place - not yours)... [ouch]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

jeramiez

6 plugs in one outlet???

um, are you sure your talking about your place and not mine...
OH WAIT... that's right,
mine's not built yet... 
right,
but you know, when it is and all... well, some things seem to need power where they seem to need power...

Just sayin.....

glenn kangiser

Yup... the cords are all UL approved so what is the problem [ouch]   :)

Actually I wired the pantry and laundry the other day and don't need the plugs where they are - just didn't feel like changing them yet.

.....and the loads are all small so it's no big deal.... It's not like I'm running the shop down here..... the shop....

Now that's another story.... [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

jeramiez

I seem to vaguely recall a pic of your wiring skills in your thread somewhere...
and if I recall correctly it involved a bunch of wires,  :o and a garden hose  ??? and a goat...  :-\
or something...
WAIT..  that might have been a different set of pics...  [rofl2]

J/K Just having a bit of fun....  ;D


glenn kangiser

Ummm ... I don't know if anyone has really seen my wiring skills when I care to do it right ...as opposed to.. that'll work....git 'er dun..... [waiting]

I actually did cable splicing for the phone company for a bit, and my uncle taught me how to do a great job wiring houses..... I wired sloper blades and A/C electronics on Caterpillar tractors.....

It's just that I use what I have... know what will work... and have a low sense of pride in my work when I do it for myself...sometimes.... OK ... most of the time.....I call my style, Rustic Functional....no obsessive compulsive disorder here..... [ouch]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Barry Broome

Jeramie, I'm sure others didn't want to bring this up but... cardboard will not work for your walls underground.   ???
"The press, like fire, is an excellent servant, but a terrible master."

ScottA

Quote from: Weasel on January 30, 2011, 02:58:16 PM
Jeramie, I'm sure others didn't want to bring this up but... cardboard will not work for your walls underground.   ???

What's with that waxed cardboard from the produce boxes? That might hold up better.

jeramiez

Darn it! and here I thought I was really onto a new technique, eco-friendly, recyclable, inexpensive...

Back to the drawing board I guess!!!  LOL 

glenn kangiser

There are a lot of above ground cardboard shelters in Fresno..... a growing trend with the burst housing bubble... the waxed ones would be considered a luxury.  [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.


jeramiez

Here is a few pics of the model once I got the walls on, hadn't added the after-thought pantry off the kitchen, 'walled in' the upper room closets, put the floor in or the 'soil' levels, or mocked up the roof at this point, just trying to get a more visual idea of possible window placement and such...










I think I got an approval from the cat...




glenn kangiser

The model is looking cool, Jeremie.

Nice to be in a world where all you need is the approval of the cat.... [waiting]
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

glenn kangiser

"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

jeramiez

A plan related question for the masses:

(please excuse the rough plan drawings using MSPaint)

ok, reconsidering the lower end of the house, the area planned for the 4 'children's bedrooms' and the second bathroom currently looks like this:



However, after some thought, perhaps another bathroom might be necessary for the 4 children...
preliminary thoughts are to place one on each side of the hallway...

the 'first thought' process says to place the bathrooms in between the bedrooms to provide 'equal access' and turn the end of the hallway into a location for a devoted water heater and a wood stove for house heating...
but no other real benefit that I currently see...



on further thought, locating the bathrooms at the lower end of the house might place them closer to the 'considered' spot of the septic system below the house... 
(and allow for easier modification of the model....  he he he)
but no other real benefit that I currently see...



or, placing them further 'uphill' might 'sound insulate' the bedrooms from the living room and laundry room areas and drive morning traffic towards the main part of the house... and allow a larger 'room' area at the end of the hallway, perhaps an area for a grey-water storage tank etc....
but no other real benefit that I currently see...



but then there is the idea of placing them in tandem on one side of the hall, allowing for another room to be added on the other side, or making the hallway branch like an upside down 'T' and placing them off the sides or with another room at the end of the hallway.... or more...

(It's probably late enough for me to be 'over-thinking' this really!!!!)

But I was wondering what other opinions might be.... if any...




umtallguy

personally I hate hallways, waste of space, the cabin I am renting right now has one, for no structural or design reason what so ever, that wastes about 40 square feet of a 600 square foot cottage, you have to pay to construct them, then it is additional volume you must heat cool and light.

speedfunk

jeramiez :

The land looks pretty awesome ...nice creek..very cool.

Land is so important.  Keep you design fluid b/c a well done house will work with the landscape.  Its impossible to fit a house without knowing what the land is about.  Some book I've read have said to just "sit" at the land ...taking it in..this way you can make educated design that works with it rather then trying to fit the predetermined house into something that wont work. 

Question.  Who is building this?  Are you paying someone or do you want to do a lot of it yourself?  Be careful of making the project so big that you never finish it.  I tend to like the idea of building a small initial structure..completing it (kids share rooms etc) then it will become aparent what next addition you can make.  I have also seen those concrete bunkers take so much it almost kills the people trying to build.  Working with wood allows constant adaption ...if your using wood you can take advantage of that.   ;D

So excited...will def follow this with you..best of luck
jeff


Sassy

I agree w/Speedfunk.  We started small & kept adding on & we're still not finished  d*  :D  

Initially we planned on building a regular stick house up on top of the ridge & started out w/just an 8'x8' for the batteries & a "real" bathroom!  It evolved from there  :o  That's part of living on the land & seeing what your options are.  We didn't have the money to build a conventional house anyway.

Your plans look good but it is really quite ambitious - digging all of that out of the ground, finding the logs - are you going to mill all your own boards?  It's been an adventure for us - sometimes I get frustrated that there's still a lot to be finished but it is very comfortable & I really like the way it all looks (even if there is some uncovered insulation & other "details"). Glenn is definitely "rustic functional" as he described himself,  c*

He has an incredible imagination & thoroughly researches everything he does but has a bit of ADDH  heh  so always has a million projects going!  I'm just the gofer & clean up crew.  I've done my share of digging, jackhammering, hauling stuff, stucco work, sanding, finishing doors, shelves, floors etc.  I even sat up on the top of the logs pressure washing them w/the ground 16 ft below...  my body is playing traitor now so can't quite do as much.

Make it a family project - the kids can do lots of stuff & it will be learning experience at the same time.  There's a lot of people on the forum who've made it a family affair & it has really been a great experience.  

Keep dreaming - I love how you've built models - one of these days your dream will come true!  (that's kinda corny, lol)
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

glenn kangiser

Paint is a great tool for roughing out drawings.

I also am not a fan of hallways and prefer to arrange rooms - offset rooms from a main room  etc to eliminate hallways.

We have 3 wood stoves so we can heat areas as we choose.  

As Jeff mentioned - seeing the land and fitting the house to it helps.  I find that wider is sometimes easier than long down hill due to elevation drops and keeping sufficient drainage.  My lowest pitch is about 2 1/2:12
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Suprisetiger

Well I have to say hello,
I am The other Half of this project and I am Most of the reason the house is a bit big... (But I tend to think Big..lol)

I Love The design of this house though Jeramiez has toiled away at trying to figure out how to make it a dream come true.. I love construction projects and cant wait to get this one started.. Even though Patience is not my strong suite...

You guys have alot of great comments and cant wait to read more... Hopefully we Will have more pictures for you as the model gets done and we get to visit the land...

This is shaping up to be a great adventure indeed ;D

PS.. Sassy I love corny [cool] so keep'em up...lol

Sassy

 w* Surprisetiger!  Glad you came aboard  :)  This is a great forum - I was nervous about 1st signing on - didn't think I had much to say although I guess I've said a lot since then  ::)

Glenn & I remodeled his house when we got married - totally gutted the kitchen, took out walls, put new flooring, carpet, cabinets, appliances, sinks - we'd get off regular work & then work on the house until midnight or later sometimes.  We had a lot of energy back then being newlyweds & all  heh

Anyway, we survived that & have been working on this place for almost 9 yrs...  it's definitely a work in progress... 
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

You will know the truth & the truth will set you free

Suprisetiger

Thanks for the welcome Sassy,

I do have a background in construction so I cant wait to get started on this.. Though at times it seems overwhelming.
But working as a team I know it will be, not only hard work d*, but fun along the way. :)

I have so many ideas for the inside that At times I drive him crazy.. HE is always telling me "lets just get it built 1st" ..lol

Thats my Impatiences creeping in...But hey Like I said I love to dream big, but i guess thats why I have him, to keep me grounded most of the time..  ::)