hi, I am new to the board. I find this board excellent for what I am doing. I am thinking of building a little garage/cabin on a large plot of land (100acres). I want to build it to store things and for shelter in the rain and snow. I want to built it beside a little pond which gets slightly humid in the summer time. I would like to put the foundation of the shed on gravel and then put cement blocks on top of the cement, followed by the flooring. It just sounds too easy though. I feel like I am missing something. Can anyone help?
Quotehi, I am new to the board.
[size=12] Welcome on board Fish :)[/size]
I would like to put the foundation of the shed on gravel and then put cement blocks on top of the cement, followed by the flooring.
Sounds very confusing to me , as the foundation , I think you mean footing , would be cement poured on bearing soil/ (hard ground ) below frost line MTL.
Your cement blocks would be laid on top of that concrete footing , up to at least 18" above grade so your Floor joist would be free and clear of the soil .
Your sub floor /( flooring) would be laid on top of those floor joist.
It just sounds too easy though. I feel like I am missing something. Can anyone help?
So ya it sounds easy, and is easy, well sort of , if you start out right , and I'd say you are missing something . And yes we can help.
John has some great resourses listed on the main page of this site . He also has plans that may fit your needs . These plans have detailed drawing , (blue prints ) that show various types of foundations . The one I described above is a common crawl space with a block foundation , there are many other type , IE slab on grade , rubble stone , mono pour , etc .
So look at a few and then come back with questions that we can help fill in the blanks for ya ;)
Good luck , PEG
Fishon, (Good tune by Primus)--- John's plans will show you the relationship of one part to another and just how to do it with several options on the foundation on the plans.
Thank you for responding, Peg. Is that the only way to make the footing? Because I have a book about making shed (not little cabins) and it seems that they just put cement blocks (6 of them around) on top of gravel as the footing. Lifting it just a few inches off the ground. They would then put 4x4 beams across the cement blocks for stability. They would then put the 2x6 flooring. Would this not be strong enough? Are there any flaws? Thank you
Sorry who is john? I am new to the board. :-/ sorry. Can anyone give me a link to the thread please. Thank you so much.
http://www.countryplans.com/
[size=12] I figured you came in the front door , link above is what I'd call the front door :)
There are down sides to the quick and dirty shed you mentioned , longevity being the main one . If your going to build something generally it's not much harder to do it right and reap long term rewards from that process.
John's runs / owns the site , sells plans and is in general a all around good guy ;) for a architect ;D
Little builder humor , Eh John :-[
Good luck , PEG [/size]
http://www.countryplans.com/plans.html
Above is a link to the plans -- the Little House plans or the Enchilada set probably cover the type buildings and foundations you can convert easily for general purpose buildings. John also covers the simple foundations for utility buildings as you mention above.
John has also kindly provided us with a step by step tutorial on how to build a small cabin just like the one you are contemplating.
Here is the link http://www.jshow.com/y2k/listings.html
Your choice of foundation for a small cabin will depend on the year round weather of your area. Do you get snow? Does the ground freeze? What's the ground composition where you want to build? Is it dry dirt? Wet dirt?
You NEED to build a cabin on a suitible foundation for your build site. That can vary. You can build a shed ona gravel and block foundation. In 20 years it will sink and settle and not be totally level. who cares about that..... it just needs to shelter things. A cabin though is going to have a much larger load inside of it with furnature and appliences and people. It needs a stronger foundation.
Hi, It is located in Ontario Canada. It rains, snows, it is mostly sandly soil. How much weight could a gravel and block foundation hold? Am I better off making a post and pier foundation? Thank you everyone for all your help.
QuoteHi, It is located in Ontario Canada. It rains, snows, it is mostly sandly soil. How much weight could a gravel and block foundation hold? Am I better off making a post and pier foundation? Thank you everyone for all your help.
I would post and pear because sand has a tendancy to shift. You should dig down past the sandy soil to firm dirt or bedrock. If it's near water and sandy especially so. Are their any other cabins in the area? Mayeb you could see how they are built.
And, are you above the (current) latitude for termites?
With all that sand around, are you likely to end up with quicksand down below?
I've lived in parts of North Carolina and Honolulu where this could be a problem--although in Honolulu, buildings under three stories usually didn't have enough of a problem to routinely use driven piles. Don't think they did in NC either, come to think of it--plenty of old light cabins on top of flat stones. It did affect construction of commercial buildings.
Frank Lloyd Wright did use the rubble trench foundation. Which can be done that way. Possibly with a continuous block foundation.
There aren't any cabins in the area (that I know of) because most people have vacant lands or a house built on it. I just wanted to make a storage/shelter cabin for fun. I have worked in interior design (drywalling, flooring, painting, custom wooden counters, and so on) so I have basic carpentry skills. Its just the foundation that is concerning me. I should probably find out what is under the soil/sand. I have a question though, can I just dig it up with a shovel? or should I be hiring someone with an auger? I mean, I don't want to invest too much money because I am only making this as my hobby, but at the same time, I figure if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it well.
Could I use a Rubble trench foundation? Wouldn't that be more solid?
Fishonmyline, we probably all have different ideas of what a little cabin is. Could you tell us more specifically what you are planning, ex. 8'x10' or 14'x20' or ?
I'm not exactly sure exactly how large or small I want it. I thought that maybe if I knew how I was going to make it, I could then figure out the dimesions. I would idealy want something around, 10x10 or 12x12....so soemthing in that area.
I'm currently building the 10x14 with a gable roof for my daughters play house. Used pier blocks and pressure treated beams. The plans are from the Big Enchilada package purchased on this site. I don't think John could of made it any easier. It took me half a day to set and level the pier blocks, make the beams (2) 2x6 with 1/2" plywood, set the floor joists and rim, and sheet the floor. It is square and it is level. Pretty simple, had to ask one question and think a little bit. My experience level is amature but the plans made it easy. 20x32 is next, as soon as the weather gets better up in the mountains. IMO you start with good plans and finish with a good product.
You could try something like this. http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm
Most likely you'd never be taxed on it either as you could say it doesn't have a foundation and you can move it to some other part of the property.
Planning on this for the next little cabin I build. Got to keep the Polli's out of my pocket somehow.
Bufordt
California still has a fee for mobile homes but payed at a lower rate. You keep a sticker on it -as if you could move it.
Well, I'm from Canada and the area that I plan to build is an "Oak Ridge Morraine" which means that I can't build on it. Only 1 house, which will come later on. Right now I just need a mini shelter/storage building. I was thining of doing gravel and cement blocks because technically it doesn't have a foundation and I "could" move it.
But has anyone tried to shovel out the holes for a pier? Is it doable without an auger?
Post hole digger and a big digging bar. Hard work but very do able if your in any kind of shape .
http://www.americantrails.org/i/tools/tamp.jpg
http://www.americantrails.org/i/tools/posthole.jpg
Or go rent a post hole digging auger at a rental shop .
http://www.hoffcocomet.com/hoffco/images/Posthole_digger.gif
Or last but not least , drive to Ca. or Az. go to any Home Depot , park the truck by , or near a group of Mexcan fellas , sort of give-um the wink and a nod , you'll have all the labor you'll need. :) Hard workers , hunger does that to ya .
How you get them back into Canada is your problem ;)
Good luck , PEG
Glenn used a jackhammer on our rockhard ground for the posts... bought it used from someone - has come in very handy up here...
Mike A
QuoteIMO you start with good plans and finish with a good product.
That could be your "signature" at the bottom of your page!
Peg, there's lots of reasons for not living in California... :-/
QuoteGlenn used a jackhammer on our rockhard ground for the posts... bought it used from someone - has come in very handy up here...
[size=12] Another good reason not to live in Ca. grounds to hard ;D [/size]
One of the millions of things I wouldn't trust is a hand-operated auger. Although I understand that if you have easily workable soil it is wonderful. Here, we'd be going through rock-like--and rock-filled--silt (with rock or shale ledges below that), where it could stall in the ground and start whipping you around. Up near Nashville Charlie Daniels--of the Charlie Daniels Band--broke his wrist that way, couldn't play his fiddle for at least a year.
David Stiles (author of a number of books on cabin/retreat/treehouse etc. building) reported that hand digging post holes for a building on Long Island took him 45 minutes a hole. I just cried when I read that. Forty-five minutes with a heavy crowbar and gloved hands pulling the loosened dirt out took me down less than a foot (why my mailbox is a little wobbly--IIRC that foot took me through a shale layer). Digging sticks (those 16 pound six-foot poles) work a little better. You're less apt to hit yourself in the head with it too.
Which is why, when I bought a tractor, I got an auger attachment for it. Might be a little too heavy to whip around when it stalls. Attachments also available for BobCats (I envy Glen his) or the Ramrod, although with the latter I'd like to get some feedback on what it's like for difficult soil and slope.
A Ramrod will cost more than a bobcat, especially because they're not commonly used. But they are cute beyond belief. Internet acquaintance in Ohio just loves hers, but she got it at a bargain price because it was the end of the show season and before they had a good-sized network of dealers in the U.S.
http://www.ramrodequip.com/products.html#attachments
(http://www.ramrodequip.com/images/950-1.JPG)
That IS cute, Amanda (I can just imagine what the guys are thinking... Cute? :-? - only a woman would say that...)
The bobcat is very versatile... we have an auger attachment - I think Glenn has to modify it a little...
Wasn't there someone awhile back, on the forum, who used the auger - took 3 men to keep control of it... our ground is such hard clay & lots of rocks, too. I've used a big rotohammer to dig through the ground, it had a small paddle attachment. Used that for peeling off the bark on logs, also.
We're about ready to go pick the bobcat up, but first he had to work on the trailer (there's always something to fix... :-/) good thing he knows how-cuz we never buy anything new, always on the lookout for good deals. So I get to sit inside & read CountryPlans while he's outside working...
I just found this site and in reading your posting I noticed that you are located in ontario. We have a project on the go at www.blueskymod.com that might be of interest to you. We are designing some newer models in the near future that will be posted and sent to subscribers....hope this is of interest and helpful
I just had a logical and simple idea. Because it'll take me days to dig like 6 holes, I might as well ask a neighbour to dig them. That way I can concentrate on the building of it and not so much the "digging the whole" aspect. I'm sure someone will be willing to earn a few extra bucks. As for the plans, I'm still not sure how large I want it or need it. I think 10x10 should be a good size. Does anyone have a 10x10 shed? Is it large enough to store your fishing rods and canoe accessories and such? maybe some tools too? Thank
If your site really is on the moraine then the soil should be very well drained and you probably don't have to worry about frost heave. Is this basically what you're thinking of?
(http://countryplans.com/foundation/img0.gif)
Read more by our host John here...
http://countryplans.com/foundation/index.html
You can also read about how another builder did his shallow foundation (scroll about halfway down the page)...
http://www.countryplans.com/nash.html
Are you planning to store your canoe in the shed? A 10x10 shed might get you 13' from corner to corner. I think most canoes are over 15'.
If you've mostly got sand, you might even be able to do the 45 minutes/hole actually using the post hole digger to dig the holes. So that six holes would take you a long day, including lunch and cussing time, and tell you that you hadn't used those muscles enough to do that without a bit of delayed onset muscle soreness.
My guess is that most of your neighbors would share your opinion about hand digging holes.
Not sure if renting a ditch witch (at in this area over a hundred bucks a half day) would be much of an improvement.
There's nothing like doing it yourself to know exactly what you are dealing with. Personally, I would jab a shovel in and see what I had, then I would know how tuff the digging is, and whether I would need hand tools or equipment, or, if I hired it, how much I should pay. You would be surprised what you can do with a post hole digger and a bar and shovel. Especially since you are familiar with drywall and flooring, that stuff is no picnic...
Additionally, if you look at the drawing in post #27, you'll see that any hole for this style foundation does not need to be very deep, especially if your terrain is fairly level. As a matter of fact, if your location is level, you could probably get away with placing pavers and a pier right on the ground. If so, you would need more steps to get up to floor level, of course.
Also, once you start laying out the foundation locations, you may decide that you want to adjust the size of the building.
QuoteWell, I'm from Canada and the area that I plan to build is an "Oak Ridge Morraine" which means that I can't build on it. Only 1 house, which will come later on. Right now I just need a mini shelter/storage building. I was thining of doing gravel and cement blocks because technically it doesn't have a foundation and I "could" move it.
But has anyone tried to shovel out the holes for a pier? Is it doable without an auger?
Hi, I'm also from Canada and I used a shovel and pickaxe when I built the foundation for my 20' x 24' Cottage. http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1104351466/0 It is doable but....!!!! for my 24' x 24' workshop extension I contacted a local contractor and paid him $300 Canadian.
Jochen
Thank you all for the awsome feedback. I'm thinking of just hand digging them or doing a pier style. Both seem like very good ideas. Seeing as how it is sand, it sould be easy to dig to some degree. I guess all I have to do now is plan it out and then grab a shovel to see if it is doable. Thank you everyone for explaining how to do the foundation.
But another question I have. If it next to a pond and it gets slightly moist in that area, how would I air out the place to reduce mold? Would airing it out once a week be enough? or should I leave windows open?
[size=12]If it's for storage like you've said and the stuff freezing is not a problem . Why not just put in a vent strip , or vents down low and put a ridge vent at the peak of the roof .
In this case , as I see what your discribing, air movement from the bottom to the top should take care of any moisture by not allowing it to have a chance to build up.
One type of vent . [/size]
(http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/productImages/intake-soffitBig.jpg%20)
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/intake-soffit.shtml
[size=12] This could be incorperated into a siding detail , or this type
(http://www.brandonstone.com/photos_generated/wall_vent_and_leaves-750x600.jpg) or something like this .
Roof vents , either core vent like this
(http://www.cor-a-vent.com/images/v400e-shingle.jpg)
or this ,
(http://www.semetals.com/images/ventilation1.jpg)
http://www.semetals.com/Ventilation.html
Take your pick :)
Good luck , PEG
[/size]
LOL. PEG, that is an awsome idea. I didn't think of that. From all of your input I think I will have a shed up this summer. Just need the weather to get a bit warmer.
Another question for all you professionals, could I put in a woodburning stove to heat the little shed? Or is it too heavy? I was thinking of just putting another pier right under it. I would like to sit in there in the winter to warm up from ice fishing.
They tell me that cheap woodstoves are, ummm, how shall I put it, [size=22]cheap[/size].
short-lived, wood-gobbling, leaky, etc.
Just fine if you want to mostly use it as a place to put a vase with flowers.
Or, just maybe, build up a quick fire to warm up after ice fishing not very many times a year. The wood-gobbling and leaky characteristics could mean that it will heat up your shed fast.
I've used both kerosene and tiny propane heaters, might do so again.
But if those two fuels go through the roof then you might be best off with a woodstove. I gather that those designed as cookstoves heat--at least the tops--quickly.
A good little wood stove with good dry wood -even one of the old tin ones is good enough to overpower almost any cold. If you get one with a flat top and a side door that opens you can cook and barbecue in it too.
Harbor Freight usually has a small cast iron box stove for under $200, front loader, two hottles.
For occaisional use I think this would be great. Take a look at some of the stoves for boating use, too. Some of them are so cute, people start thinking about buying a boat just so they have the excuse. (Okay, it was me, but I'm a people! [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif])
You are the only guy I know who lusts after a cute piece of cast iron with two hotties, Billy Bob. :) :-/
Just a thought.
Ice fisherman, power auger, sandy soil. Lets see, twenty minutes and your holes will be dug.
hahaha...does make sense, BUT I dont have one just yet. I usually go with buddies and we do it pre-motorized auger style, by hand. we spin and spin and spin with our hands. good idea though. i should ask around if anyone has an auger...
[size=12] FOML : Ya can't soil a ice auger on dirt can ya :-/ It just ain't right ::)
Just kidding although I'd think a ice auger would want to be sharper. I used to use a long bar to chop my ice holes , gee that almost sounds like something that shouldn't be said on a family forum :o :o
Back in RI I used to ice fish , mostly for bass , perch , pickerel (sort of a small pike ). One of the few things I miss about cold weather , ice fishing ;D
We could use up to 5 tilts , something like these ,
(http://www.jacktraps.com/sc_images/products/281_image.jpg%20)
:o :o 31" Cross Jack Trap with 4" Reel $36.00 :o :o
mine where older , I gave them to a cousin when I joined the navy , MTL the tilts are worth something now , as they where old when I got them and that was 30 years ago .
Anyway do you fish with tilts or with a jigging pole ? And what's the main catch?
PEG
[/size]
Quote [size=12] I used to use a long bar to chop my ice holes , gee that almost sounds like something that shouldn't be said on a family forum :o :o
[/size]
[size=20]You're really covering your tail pretty good, PEG. Not even giving me a chance. [/size] :-/ :)
[size=12] Cover six , Roger ;) [/size]
I actually just started ice fishing and it's amazing. This winter we went mostly for perch and lake trout. Both are awsome eats. ;)
If my soil was real sandy vs. rocky or clay, I'd have at it.
Don't let your fishing buddies see you.
Perch are most extremly excellent.
In SD we use ultra light weight jigging poles.
hahaha...I should tell them that I am changing the blade on the auger and then just beat up the one we have now. ahhahaha...perch are excellent all year round. An untralight rod with a jig. This has turned into a fishing forum. Sorry...
I will soon be on my way to building this hut. Thank you everyone for your help.
Dunno about eating perch... pretty nasty fish...YUCK...Lake trout now...Yummy!
Best is to get Sea Trout in the spring when they come upstream....They are huge, tasty, easy to bone and cook...About everything you could ever want....Also a lot of fun to catch also! Catch one good size fish and you can feed half a dozen friends or family members...
Best of everything!