Questions on framing nailer and compressor

[HoustonDave]

I've done some reading on framing nailers and compressors.  I really don't need a full finish/brad nailing kit at this point, so I was reviewing compressors only.

I'm planning on buying the Porter-Cable FR350A Framing Nailer.  Based on my experience and skill level I will not do anything near the nailing rates a contractors would be able to do, so I don't think I'm going to run it at max rates if I go with a smaller compressor.  And I doubt I will have more than one air-powered tool in use at a time.

The documentation says that:

A 3.2-4.0 CFM Compressor will be sufficient at slow or moderate production rates,but may have difficulty at very rapid rates.

The Mac2400 ($310, 81lbs, 4.2gal, 4.2 CFM @ 90 psi) seems overkill for my purposes.  I'm looking at the MAC700 ($200, 61lbs, 2.6gal, 3.3 CFM @ 90 psi).  That's near the bottom of the range, but I save $100 cost and 20lbs in weight.

Am I asking for disappointment going for the smaller compressor to reduce cost and weight?

I'm open to other recommendations on compressors, but those Makitas seem to have good reputations and good feedback.

[Native_NM]

Harbor Freight.  $99.00.  Get the replacement warranty.  $150 out the door.

[HoustonDave]

Harbor Freight.  $99.00.  Get the replacement warranty.  $150 out the door.

Can't seem to find the specific one you are talking about at HF's website.  Could you give some specs on that?  Thx!

[Native_NM]

Can't seem to find the specific one you are talking about at HF's website.  Could you give some specs on that?  Thx!

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-8-gallon-125-psi-portable-air-compressor-67501.html

Item 67501.  The coupon is always out to take it down to $99.

[astidham]

I bought this kit from amazon http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=active&q=hitachi+nailer+combo&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1272&bih=829&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7917577120382166787&sa=X&ei=Nf0oTqqFG5D3gAfQremYCw&ved=0CGQQ8wIwAg
the gun is spectacular! if i had it to do over again, i would definitely buy a larger compressor.
I never knew I needed one until I bought one, now if I am using a blower, the compressor cant keep up. smaller air tools like a nibbler runs the tank out in 20-30 seconds.
the larger ones on wheels don't cost much more, and in my situation (buying a bigger one) buying 1 is cheaper than regretting the smaller one while buying a bigger one.

[MountainDon]

Another factor may be what will be the power (electrical) source? Larger compressors require more startup power. If the electrical power comes from a generator can the generator supply what is needed.

[HoustonDave]

Thanks Don.  I considered that.  I'll have electricity available at the job site as of Friday or Monday    so startup power is not a concern.

Astidham, that is a sweet deal.  HD has that kit for $478 including tax and shipping. 

[HoustonDave]

Any thoughts on this Hitachi combo?  Seems a good price, about $480 including tax and shipping.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&productId=100323147&R=100323147

3-1/4 In. full round head framing nailer
2 HP 4.0 gallon oil-lubricated air compressor,
50 Ft. hose, nail gun and compressor oils, wrenches, tape, safety glasses and all couplers and fittings.
Nail capacity of 64-70 nails (2 strips).
2 HP, 4.0 gallon compressor has a vertically stacked twin tank design and delivers 4.0 SCFM at 90 PSI.
Drives: 2 In. to 3-1/4 In. 20 degrees to 22 degrees plastic-collated round head framing nails
Compressor weighs about 60lbs

[Native_NM]

It really depends on how much you plan to use it.  If you plan to build a cabin or two , and use intermittent after that, the HF stuff is a better deal.  If you will use on a regular basis, the Hitachi, Senco, or Bostich is all nice stuff. 

[davidj]

I burnt through 2 cheap pancake compressors building my place (a 20x30), although one was open-box so maybe suspect to start with.  Ended up with a decent Dewalt and it's great (but more dollars - $350-ish).  It works fine on my 3KVA gennie - seems less effort to start up than the smaller compressors.

For framing nailing, the small pancake compressors were  definitely good enough, although they could slow you down a little at times.

Only one issue with the new compressor - when I had it hooked up to the house, which in turn was powered by my big Honda inverter gennie, I managed to generate a power surge when the gennie came on and the compressor, well pump, a fan (and probably other stuff) all kicked in at once.  It burnt out maybe $300 of stuff (e.g. AFCI breakers, fluro ballasts, electronic switches).  Now I don't put the compressor and the well pump on the same gennie at the same time.

[HoustonDave]

Thanks guys.  Taking this all into account, I'm looking to get a better quality but used Framing Nailer.  I'm finding some listings where people have bought good quality Hitachis and Paslodes for their DIY project, then when finished are looking to resell after only a month's worth of use.  Seems like a smarter deal for my first nailer. 

For the compressor, amps will not be an issue since I'm going to have utilities at the site.  Since I'm not looking for a package deal, I'm leaning toward one of those Makita compressors. 

I look at the HF one NM suggested, and there are just too blasted many defect returns on them...and the price...it's just TOO low...  How can you make anything with moving parts for $100 with any reliability??? lol.

I'm a little more wary of buying a used oiled compressor.  Dunno why.  Should I be? Seems to be a likely place for people to burn something up and then try to pass it on.

[dug]

I'm a little more wary of buying a used oiled compressor.  Dunno why.  Should I be?

I suppose it could be somewhat of a crapshoot but I picked up a used oiled compressor which looked a little beat up but everything seemed to work fine, a Porter Cable framing nailer- nearly new in case, and 50 ft. of hose for $200 at a local pawn shop. That was nearly 2 years ago and it has been used and abused, lent out a few times, and still going strong!

[Native_NM]

HF stuff is hit or miss.  That's why I always get their warranty.  They will literally just exchange it for a new one no questions asked.  I've got the compressor I suggested.  It requires oil, and works better than my old pancake compressor.  I've never had a problem with it.  I've had a few of their tools that died the first day. 

[beckhamk]

I have two of the pas lode cordless framing nailers. I love them no compressor and no cords!   I have also seen some used ones on drains list.

[HoustonDave]

I have found a gently used Hitachi NR90AC3 for $125. I have heard that the 83 is a better choice for most framing, but this sounds like a good deal. I've heard that unless you buy quality nail strips the 8d nails will jam on the 90. Anyone got any feedback on this?  The 90 shoots up to 16d 3.5 inch nails down to 2 3/8 length.

[tinybackyardhouse]

I have a Makita MAC700 that I use daily in my shop and occasionally as a framing nailer. Its relatively quiet and has always done well. It has a small tank so it runs more often but for one person shooting nails it would be plenty of capacity

I will warn though that if you buy it online it will likely arrive damaged. Makitas packaging is terrible! I received one from Amazon damaged enough it was unusable and the second I received had damage but it was only cosmetic

[suburbancowboy]

Just to give you some real world experience with the HF air compressors.  I have been building a cabin this summer and I have a honda 3500W generator with an idler control switch.  So this is a good generator.  If I have the idler control on, the air compressor will never come on, the breaker on the generator kicks off.  With the idler control off about half the time the air compressor will come on with out me playing with it,  the other half of the time the breaker kicks off.  So I think maybe the compressor is getting old so I buy a new one.  Well the generator won't start the new one under any conditions.  Maybe you are thinking that the generator has issues.  I can run my radial arm saw and all my saws with no problem.  I also have a 3500W HF generator and the problem is worse with it.  Probably going to buy a new non-HF air compressor this weekend.

Moral of the story is if you need to run with a generator,  get a big generator or have a smaller air compressor that doesn't need so much juice.

[rmcewen]

I had the MAC700 and the same Porter Cable framing nailer.  It was inconsistent driving nails when the pressure got low just before it cycled.  Went out and bought the MAC2400 thinking it would be better but pretty much the same issue.  Problem seems to be that both of those compressors won't cycle until the tank pressure falls below 80 PSI (not adjustable) regardless of the regulator pressure so unless you can run the nailer at 80 PSI the pressure varies and nails drive inconsistently.  So I thought maybe it was the nailer and went and bought a MAX nailer.  It doesn't work any better than the PC but it is smaller and lighter so I use it most often.

Recently bought a DEWALT D55151 Twin Hot Dog (oiled) and it works better than either of the Makitas.  I did like the MAC700 quite a bit because it was quiet and easy to carry around.  Unfortunately I sold it when I got the MAC2400.  Wish I had kept it for finish and brad nailers.

BTW, both of the Makitas ran fine on my 3500W generator.  Haven't tried the Dewalt yet on the generator.

[HoustonDave]

Thanks for the feedback folks.  Much appreciated.

I am going to go ahead with the MAC700 based on the feedback here.  If I have trouble with the depth issue, I may try a workaround (for example, after the first couple of depth issues, vent air to force a compressor cycle).

[rmcewen]

Generally my workaround was just to finish the last few nails before a cycle with a hammer.  Not a big deal, just a little annoying.  It's a good compressor, you should be happy with it.  You might also try using a 25' hose when possible (I was always using a 50').  Also, the super cheap poly hoses seemed to work better as far as pressure than the more expensive rubber hoses, they just don't last as long and are harder to coil and uncoil.

[HoustonDave]

Thanks again.  I checked the specs and supposedly the Hitachi NR90 works down to 70 psi so may not be an issue.

BTW, here is the nailer I bought.  The guy was asking $125 for it on Craigslist, but after seeing it was nearly new and Amazon had it listed for almost $500 new, I made him take $140.  I still got a great deal and he got more than he was asking for it.

[HoustonDave]

Another heads-up that I went ahead and bought the Makita 700 compressor.  I'm very pleased so far, and the low-pressure cycle start is within the operating pressure of the nailer.  I'll give another update after I get the framing started.