My Downsizing Project

[MountainDon]

Depends on the area.

Where our cabin is located I got a 911 address by paying $5 to the county and telling them I needed it because I parked the RV up there and wanted to be sure emergency services could find me if I phoned in for a heart attack or something. Really. I could get a mailbox out on the highway if we wanted to. But we still have our mil go to the suburb address.

We don't exactly have permits. Neither does neighbor #1 with a cabin that's been there for some 5 years, neither does neighbor #2 with a structure that is no where near meeting code. Neighbor #1 is on the tax roles as having a cabin, but the assessor doesn't seem to talk to the permit department. This is one time I appreciate the bumbling NM government.

As far as the garage thing goes, some places don't let you build a garage before the house. Wouldn't you know it? You come up with a way around "it" and somebody has built a fence already. Here, I could get the power company to bring power to the land without having any buildings at all. All they want is the money; $55K.Inother places you need a permit for a house first.

Off grid water heater: Lots of ways around this if there's no permit requirements. And some if there are permits required. But that answer may vary depending on location nd codes. For my solution I am using an RV water heater; 6 gallons. It's propane fired. Left to burn with just the pilot light burning it uses very little gas. The pilot light supplies enough heat to heat the well insulated tank to where the water is HOT if left a day or so. Frugal showering techniques provides enough water for my wife to wash her hair when the need arises. She pretty well ues up all the available hot water, so if I want a shower the same day I have to turn the main burner on to allow the tank to recover. It works for us. Ernest T Basses family has a wood fired experiment going for heating water. Another choice would be more high tech and that would be a propane fired tankless heater. Pros and cons to them. One of them would require a large (200+ gallon) propane tank.

We have the advantage that our cabin is a second home, a refuge. When we stay up there for 10 - 12 days at a time we do laundry back in the suburbs. We've had the RV up there for a couple years, living in it while we cleaned up the land and thought about where/what to build. The cabin is now up, but needs finishing. I don't know if you've seen the topic. It's a bit long.

Refrigerator: We're going propane; a Servel. I'd rather have an efficient electric, but we'd need more solar panel and batteries than I want to buy at present. That may change in the future. For the time being I'm planning on using 40 and 60 pound portable propane tanks that I already own. Propane will also be used for a cook range, and a back up propane wall heater. Someday I may get a 200 or so gallon propane tank and buy in bulk. They deliver to one of my neighbors. You can lease a big tank for $52 a year here.

There are ways to set up reasonably easy systems to blow out the plumbing lines in cold weather.

Biggkidd (forum member) managed to get his address in the boonies registered with the school so his kids could attend school. I don't recall the details. Search his name and check on that.

[wildbil]

does anyone know if the 14x24 "Little House with gable roof and shed over a front porch" can be made into a two bedroom home with town bedrooms in the loft area and a real basic stair case?  I was wondering because every floor plan and example only has a loft over half the main floor. Id really prefer the 14x24 if it works and then once I'm in it and our debts are paid off I can add on.

Also I was wondering if anyone has built a similar building...what was the cost?

Everyday I'm getting new ideas, I am itching to get moving. I just need to find the right peice of land.

Thank you,
Wildbil

[considerations]

Here is what I'm doing. Some of it is blatantly not kosher, but I'm pretty remote and none of the neighbors are anywhere near compliant either. Plus they are thrilled that someone is finally cleaning up (this land was trashed by temporary "squatters") and doing something permanent on this property.....so for the moment, I feel fairly safe. 

Where our cabin is located I got a 911 address by paying $5 to the county

Clallam County Washington - The 911 address cost nothing in 2004.

We don't exactly have permits.

Clallam County - neither do I - anything under 400 sqft doesn't require one, unless you are putting in electrical or plumbing.  - I'm off grid and ignoring this.


Off grid water heater: For my solution I am using an RV water heater;

Clallam County -  I'm saving for a non-electric propane fired on-demand water heater - about $700.  I have a 100 gal propane tank which will do for now - it will also run a wall mounted and vented non-electric furnace to supplement the wood stove.  I do not like stoking a cold fire in an icy house on a cold morning.


Clallam County Refrigerator: I would love to have a Servel, but may install an RV fridge instead, $750 vs $2k is compelling at this point.  The smaller fridge seems ok for one person. I might spend the big bucks for a Servel freezer though.

Also, the permit people and the assessor's office do not communicate in this county.  One of the employees in the assessor's office lives in the "neighborhood", and they depend on this lack of communication to do things the way they want to as well.

Neighborhood is a loose term, there are about 7 houses in a 1 mile radius.

[glenn kangiser]

does anyone know if the 14x24 "Little House with gable roof and shed over a front porch" can be made into a two bedroom home with town bedrooms in the loft area and a real basic stair case?  I was wondering because every floor plan and example only has a loft over half the main floor. Id really prefer the 14x24 if it works and then once I'm in it and our debts are paid off I can add on.

Also I was wondering if anyone has built a similar building...what was the cost?

Everyday I'm getting new ideas, I am itching to get moving. I just need to find the right peice of land.

Thank you,
Wildbil

My RV Garage was built off of that plan converted to post and beam by me to use bridge timbers I already had.  It has a full loft with a steep stair.  A dormer could help with the stair or extending the second floor walls by using taller side studs in balloon framing fashion.

John's plans can be easily modified to do things such as that.

My total cost for the job was $200 but it was two story plus attic and cupola so took extra materials.

I think that figure is not of much use to you as I scrounged everything and sawed my own lumber to cover what was not given to me.

[MountainDon]

There's nothing to keep you from putting in a loft at both ends or installing a full length set of ceiling/floor joists if you want. Planning the access may be difficult if you don't want to, or can't use ladders. Codes don't like ladders in some places. Some people, like myself, don't lke ladders either. Stairs though are a real space eater. You could use a U-shaped set someplace or an L-shape stair against an end wall. There are minimum widths and maximum rises that need to be observed in code areas.

Spiral stairs IMO, are a bother, are impossible to move any large objects up or down and may not be code in some places.

Keep in mind it is easy to lengthen the 14 ft wide little house.

[cordwood]

There's nothing to keep you from putting in a loft at both ends or installing a full length set of ceiling/floor joists if you want. Planning the access may be difficult if you don't want to, or can't use ladders. Codes don't like ladders in some places. Some people, like myself, don't lke ladders either. Stairs though are a real space eater. You could use a U-shaped set someplace or an L-shape stair against an end wall. There are minimum widths and maximum rises that need to be observed in code areas.

Spiral stairs IMO, are a bother, are impossible to move any large objects up or down and may not be code in some places.

Keep in mind it is easy to lengthen the 14 ft wide little house.

ELEVATOR!!!! Even the Flintstones had them
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I know,

[wildbil]

Extending the 14 x 24 might be a good idea. I'm really trying to get a good idea on what that space will feel like. The bedrooms can be small, with the cieling low cause were only going to sleep in them. The only real open space I want is the livingroom. I need it to be some what comfortable, yet I cant just build a normal bloated home cause that would defeat the purpose. The camp I belong to is about 20' by 30' and I feel I could easily fit 2 bedrooms in that. When it warms up I'm going to stake out some demensions in the yard and size this place up.

thanks for the info guys,

Wildbil

[MountainDon]

We drew (chalk) our original concept out on the driveway. Drew furniture with differenr colored chalk

[cordwood]

We drew (chalk) our original concept out on the driveway. Drew furniture with differenr colored chalk

Till the guys with the labcoats showed up!!!!!! NO,NO,NO, Really we know it's  not real, Really we do!!!!

[cordwood]

 We used some stakes, ropes and poles with tarps to give a feel of the walls and ceilings,..........and to hide us from the street.

[Redoverfarm]

We drew (chalk) our original concept out on the driveway. Drew furniture with differenr colored chalk

Till the guys with the labcoats showed up!!!!!! NO,NO,NO, Really we know it's  not real, Really we do!!!!

He's been hanging around the work place toooo long.

[wildbil]

so far I've figured out all in a plan that is quickly coming together, except water. Running a pump off solar power is asking a bit much, and I dont want to rely soley on rain water. I'm trying to figure a way to pump water into a cistern or maybe something gravity fed. estimated usages: 10 gal water heater for showers, hand dish washing, sort of primitive clothes washing, drinkage, light gardening at first.  

[MountainDon]

If you have a well most methods for extracting the water require electricity. Here in NM there still are a few of the old wind mill pumps for ag purposes; just though I'd toss that in. There's a guy who makes his living repairing and refurbishing the old waster pumps and their windmills.

There are some pumps specifically designed for solar. I believe they are rather slow and you'd need a cistern between well and point of use. From there an RV pump can supply water to the system in the cabin.

If you have rainfall it can be used. People who lived in the FL Keys back a few decades had to do that. No wells, no municipal water, and it worked. That is still done in the Caribbean.

If you had a cistern that would allow you to have a weeks worth of water, or more on hand, you could run a generator whenever the cistern needed filling. I don't like that, but it is an option. Most solar installation require a generator anyways.

[cordwood]

 I used to do some work on old Aermotor windmill pumps, I think they are still around but they were a lot more work than the cowboy movies made them out to be.
Standing the tower and mounting the head requires more than a buddy with a pickup usually

[firefox]

I can still remember standing in the shower with soap in my eyes
waiting for someone to get the diesel pump runing to supply the showers.  This was in a boys boarding school in Jamaica in the Then
British West Indies. They collected the water off the roof tops into large
covered cisterns the size of a large swimming pool. Then they had a windmill pump it up to a water tower. When the water ran out of the tower, they tried to get the diesel pump running. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. This was on top of one of the highest mountains there and even though this was a tropical island, it would get cold enough to hail. And no, they didn't have a hot water heater.
Bruce

[wildbil]

If you had a cistern that would allow you to have a weeks worth of water, or more on hand, you could run a generator whenever the cistern needed filling. I don't like that, but it is an option. Most solar installation require a generator anyways.

You dont like the whole setup or just needing a generator?

What about a quality handpump on the well piped into a large cistern to compliment the rain water and using only a low wattage rv pump to bring the water out of that?

of course if I had no water heater then I see no reason why water couldnt be handpumped directly into the cabin? It would require us heating our water up on a stove and I'm not sure the wife would go that far(shes does have some requirements I have to follow)

[CREATIVE1]

I've already been through your whole process, and am getting ready to build now, all permitted and ready to go, so it's time to make some final decisions.  I've found that you can't decide alot of this stuff until you have land and are actually getting ready to build.  But the best course is the one you're taking, trying on everything for size.  Just be flexible enough to change your mind if something better/different/totally unexpected comes along. 

This forum is among the best places to gather information from folks who are already doing it.  Invaluable!  Also look at Backwoods Home magazine, and some old issues of Mother Earth News when many of their solutions were do it yourself on a budget, unlike now.

[speedfunk]

I'm wish ya the best.  We want similar things   I also started by paring down exactly what we need and building up with the compromises (ie wife, budget and time lol).   It seems I like about efficiency and ease of workability and affordability my beautiful wife seems to want a "normal" fridge instead of a modified freezer that would be more effecient lol.  Also a bathtub , OOOOHHH that one hurt ..takes up alot of space uses alot of hot water .  However I don't want to live there alone    So between the two of us we have come to a floor plan (through a couple years of discussions and a few nice words) and details that seem to work for both of us .  Sweet and I will still be married ..woohoo

okay the tip i thought i'd share about your freezing water issue.

When i was growing up we used wood to heat and when it got real cold and we left for the day or longer we would just leaving the water running a bit.  It was enough to keep that 40 degree water flowing through the pipes and nothing ever frooze in 20 + years.  I'm not sure your local..but we are in upstate ny as a refrenece...it get's pretty cold I think 

[SansPlans]

Regarding Wildbil's original post: My only thought to add would be, be very careful what you expect out of your friends. At the end of the day, it's your house, not theirs, so if you want to build your own house be prepared to do all of it yourself because it may very well come to that.

[MountainDon]

You don't like the whole setup or just needing a generator?

Generator. We've been living in the RV for 2 years now up in our mountains while deciding what to build and where to build it. Solar PV power will be the main power source when all is said and done. That is scheduled for the coming spring/summer. In the meantime the batteries are replenished using a Yamaha inverter generator. It's a PITA to have to run it. A generator needed for battery maintenance is one thing; having to run it for specific needs from battery charging to operating a water pump or microwave becomes "old" after a while. Not to mention the quantity of gasoline. OMMV.

Re: heating water on a stove for all purposes... also becomes "old" after a while, IMO. We do that after the RV is winterized. My first mate would mutiny if it was a year round thing. /// I might have that wrong... maybe she's the captain and I'm the mate?   

[considerations]

"We used some stakes, ropes and poles with tarps to give a feel of the walls and ceilings,..........and to hide us from the street."

I thought I had it all figured out - used some basic computer software, jumped in with the confidence of ignorance....

The funny thing about the 14 x 24 was that when it was only a foundation it looked really small. 

When the floor was done it looked really big. 

Then the walls were framed in and it looked really small again. 

Then I got the roof on and it looked really big again. 

Then I got the walls covered and it looks just right.  Each time I stood back and said, boy did I get that wrong! (meaning my concept of how big and/or livable it is going to be..) 

I will have two lofts accessed by an L shaped stair, and connected by a diagonal catwalk.  There is more walking around room than I had hoped for when I was designing it.

I think the key for me to keep the space a comfortably livable size is to put in as much built in storage as possible and a cathartic garage sale when I get my household goods out of storage and formally move in.

[Sassy]

Hi Wildbil, somehow missed this whole post!  Lots of good, interesting ideas from everyone.  I always get a kick out of the men writing about their needs vs the wife's!  We can do without a lot of the modern conveniences, but there are just some things that we can't do without, lol...  Considerations has done a wonderful job in planning the rooms, lofts etc - using the space to its best advantage - gives you a good idea what a woman wants in a home...  anyway, have really enjoyed reading through this thread 

wish you the best, Wildbil - you'll make your dream come true & your marriage strong by considering the wife's needs & wants    BTW, is that a picture of your little one?  Cute baby!

[glenn kangiser]

gives you a good idea what a woman wants in a home... 

Where was  "man" listed... hmm

[Sassy]

 

[wildbil]

Hi Wildbil, somehow missed this whole post!  Lots of good, interesting ideas from everyone.  I always get a kick out of the men writing about their needs vs the wife's!  We can do without a lot of the modern conveniences, but there are just some things that we can't do without, lol...  Considerations has done a wonderful job in planning the rooms, lofts etc - using the space to its best advantage - gives you a good idea what a woman wants in a home...  anyway, have really enjoyed reading through this thread 

wish you the best, Wildbil - you'll make your dream come true & your marriage strong by considering the wife's needs & wants    BTW, is that a picture of your little one?  Cute baby!

Yes my name tag is my daughter. Shes 8 months now. Thankyou for your support. I'll be around asking tons of questions and maybe spouting off a few I think of myself too. By next spring I'll have land and then I can start posting building pics.