2x4's vs. 2x6's?

[phalynx]

Other than the extra insulation room, is there really any reason to use 2x6 walls instead of 2x4 walls?  I will be building in TN and I don't think the extra insulation will be that neccessary.  

Thoughts?

[jraabe]

For most residential construction 2x4 framing is "strong enough". 2x6 framing is usually required only in the bottom floor of a three story house (and the pony walls of a basement with a two story house above). Otherwise 2x4 has a proven track record.

However, in heating climates 2x6 @ 24" is a very cost effective trade-off for 2x4 @ 16" - it uses about the same amount of wood but has considerably better thermal characteristics. If heating or AC needs are minimal (Hawaii for instance) there is little reason to use 2x6 studs.

[John_M]

What about using a ledger board for a loft.  If you were to put in beams and T&G flooring, would you be better with 2x6's @16" o.c. or is that overkill.  You would then use 2x6's @ 24 o.c. instead?

[peg_688]

 With the 1 1/2 storey plans ," IF "that's one your thinking about , the let in ledgers might cause a problem with 2x4 walls .

   

[jraabe]

Agreed PEG. Not that it hasn't been done  :-/

[phalynx]

John,

My 2 story plans should be here tomorrow hopefully.  Is 24" centers with 2x6's ok with that plan?

Scott

[peg_688]

I can't / won't speak for John . but yes 24 "OC 2x6  can/ do work . the walls inside and out get wavie ,  IMO .   Can it be done,,, yes .

  Can you aviod the wave , yes use 5/8 S/R , skim coat the walls , by a very good taper. Still expect some wave effect. Super insulated builders started this trend , few still build that way as few people are willing to " except " the wave for the" insulation pay back" .   Most folks want "sort of flat" walls. If they are buying a house / place , other than renting / Condo living .

   Sudo renting  in most cases as 1/2 of the unit's end up being rentals , only IMO on the % listed , no real FACTS On that , just what I've seen when working on condos .  

     Expect "less" flat walls inside and out , for a little $ savings .   Condo's apartments use this method , it's cheap out the door . But   looks cheap in the end, IMO  

 To me, a builder, who get's[highlight] "Graded"[/highlight] by each new client it's not worth the savings in the end , unhappy client , unhappy builder.

 They never "remember the warning" / "warnings " about wavey walls , [highlight]or "They never "thought " it would be that "bad"!   [/highlight]

Good luck , and remember that's just IMO  :)PEG

[glenn-k]

Wall board can be shimmed with special cardboard strips, a power hand planer and a long straight edge.  I saw a contractor do this throughout a 3 story apartment complex I worked on.  His guy was good and the walls looked near perfect when complete.  I saw the strips of sheetrock shims available in Home Despot.  

Then again- you have nearly a year to wait for all the kinks to twist into the boards behind the walls-- most happen sooner though.

[peg_688]

Wall board can be shimmed with special cardboard strips, a power hand planer and a long straight edge.  I saw a contractor do this throughout a 3 story apartment complex I worked on.  His guy was good and the walls looked near perfect when complete.  I saw the strips of sheetrock shims available in Home Despot.    


  [highlight]Card board shims , EH Glenn , not sheetrock ![/highlight]


Then again- you have nearly a year to wait for all the kinks to twist into the boards behind the walls-- most happen sooner though.

     

   How'd he "fix " the exterior wavy , Glenn

   

[jonseyhay]

Most framing here is 90x45 on two stories. Single story stud spacing can be 450mm or 600mm, 90 x35. Stud straightening can be achieved by crippling or packing, planing. Crippling can be up to 20% of the stud depth and is usually cleated. I get green with envy when I see the amount of timber you guys use over there.
jonesy
6 x2 pine framing is about $2 per ft, 4x2.... $1.20

[peg_688]

Stay green Joneys   Or  plant trees for the future  :)PEG

[jonseyhay]

Most of the timber grown here is hardwood, although there is more and more pine starting to be grown as they knock the old growth forest off. A lot of the pine is still imported from New Zealand and most of the lumber in my place is from there. 2 x4 hard wood is about $5 a meter.

[John Raabe]

A quick convert on Jonsey's metric: 90x45 is roughly 2x4 and at 600mm is just shy of 24" o/c.

[glenn kangiser]

Yeah-- the wall guy went through all walls before the sheetrock went on - shimmed or planed the studs -probably 160 apartments worth-  -I guess they figure they're just little human cages anyway.  They were near perfect when I checked them on a later trip.  The shims were solid cardboard similar to that on the back of the sheetrock or a box of Cornflakes.  They stapled them to each stud to bring them out even with the straight edge.

The outside wavy was just stuccoed--must have planed it off with a concrete float, eh?

The floors were OSB with several months of rain--lumpier than the back of my head, but when floated with gypcrete and carpet put down in the rooms, it looked pretty good. (The floors- not the back of my head - although ----that gives me an idea.)  You could barely smell the formaldehyde.

Housing for the masses --- Oh, the Humanity! :-/

[John Raabe]

Speaking of old growth timber and working with wet wood... (we were weren't we?)



This from the backpage of the new Journal of Light Construction. These are Kauri pine logs up to 12' in diameter that are being harvested from bogs in New Zealand. These have been preserved underground for 50,000 years.

Here's a link to the site: http://www.ancientwood.com/

[jonsey/downunder]

Kauri is a beautiful timber, no knots, the branches fall of as the tree grows. There is not much of that old growth left over there and I think the only stuff they let be milled is windfall and the stuff in the swamps. The gum is also a prized commodity and was at one time mined in the swamps, not sure if they still do that. Kauri carves like cheese, great to work with if you can get it.

[PEG688]

Yeah-- the wall guy went through all walls before the sheetrock went on - shimmed or planed the studs -probably 160 apartments worth-  -I guess they figure they're just little human cages anyway.  They were near perfect when I checked them on a later trip.  The shims were solid cardboard similar to that on the back of the sheetrock or a box of Cornflakes.  They stapled them to each stud to bring them out even with the straight edge.

The outside wavy was just stuccoed--must have planed it off with a concrete float, eh?

The floors were OSB with several months of rain--lumpier than the back of my head, but when floated with gypcrete and carpet put down in the rooms, it looked pretty good. (The floors- not the back of my head - although ----that gives me an idea.)  You could barely smell the formaldehyde.

Housing for the masses --- Oh, the Humanity! :-/

 Ah , I think my point exactly , seems here where talking  about folks doing it for there self , not the masses.  

 If I wrong I'm gone ! I didn't think I was helping other builders  to under bid me !  

 Any a hole can build a profitble building , it only shouldn't  leak ! Most still do , and they still rent the space !  They still make profit !

 What is the objective of this forum ?   Cheap half / arse  sort of good / I don't think it will fall down tonight house/ cabins ?

 Or something that can be pass on to others or at least gain a profit in it's sale ?

 I'm some what  :-? PEG

[glenn kangiser]

Was that this topic, John? I think that was under the peeing outside topic.  Sorry--My mistake. :-/ Post away, John.

Cool -big big trees.  I got lost in a flurry of activity there.

[glenn kangiser]

Jonesy, the hardwood there - do they use eucalyptus - I've heard of at least one house built of it.  

and - the swamp wood - any changes in composition after pulled out of the swamp-- I have brought up pieces of wood when well drilling that seemed to change and decompose after drying and hitting air.

[jonsey/downunder]

A lot of the older house's were but it's too pricey now. It has to be worked green, as it is too hard to get a nail into once it's dry. Hence the stud straightening, it will twist as it dries.
The stuff in the swamps is as good if not better than the day it fell.
PS Are you still on the road?

[glenn kangiser]

I was wondering - I have about 200 eucalyptus trees at my other place-- I used 4 posts - 2 beams 12" dia here- front has a couple more under the porch - in 1 year it is so hard I cannot drive a 60d nail 1/4" x 6" into it without bending the nail.  It seems to shrink at least 30 to 33% in a couple years.  I have had a few powder post beetles in it here - not much else.  California is having a major scale problem in eucalyptus now.  Nasty sticky little white bugs.  At the turn of the century 1900- there was a shortage of hardwood for furniture in the US.  Eucalyptus was substituted as a very fine furniture wood.

PS-8 hrs driving 7 1/2 working -I'm back home now in the underground command center.

[benevolance]

That staircase carved in that 50,000 year old tree...Breathtaking! Gawd I love it!

[jonsey/downunder]

The river red gum is the local timber in this area and gets real hard when dry. The heart is pretty much useless and in mature trees is mostly eaten out by white ants. Its is a beautiful timber for furniture making, a deep rich red. It was mostly used for railroad ties in the old days and you can find lots of off cuts still in the river bends.

[jonsey/downunder]

A lot of the Maori carving in NZ is Kauri or totra I think some of the waka were as well



Picture pinched from here
http://www.travel-pictures-gallery.com/imagepagenewz01.html

[Jimmy C.]

Re: 2x4's vs. 2x6's?

Because or the 5-1/2" footprint of the bottom plate, I noticed when you stand the wall up, you can let go and it stays in the upright position without any scary wobble. This is great for building and raising walls by yourself.