20x32 A frame cabin Central KY

[EaglesSJ]

Here are pics of todays work.






The new horse on the right. His name is Chip and he is Appaloosa/quarter.




And here are a few from a few days ago.

[MountainDon]

Most power calculations are done using the figure of 5% maximum allowable voltage drop. Five percent drop means a 120 volt input would be 114 volts, still good for most applications. Being conservative, I prefer 3% as a maximum, or less in lower voltage circuits. But that's just me.

I don't know your exact cable run distance, so here are some numbers to look at. The chart body numbers are maximum distance in feet, rounded to the nearest 5 (copper wire)

                   3% drop                           5% drop
gauge    15 amps      20 amps           15 amps      20 amps

  8          155             115                  255            195
  6          245             185                  400            300
  4          385             290                  645            485

If your power draw is consistently under the maximum you can get away with smaller wires. If the maximum draws are for starting motors, even though of short duration, I'd go towards the larger wires. Motors don't like to be shy on power when starting; can shorten life.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

[EaglesSJ]

After your chart I decided to upgrade. I measured the exact distance and it is 231 feet from the inverter to the breaker box at the cabin. I went to lowes to exchange my wiring and found out that a spool of 4 gauge wire (what I wanted to do) was 460 bucks!!! Yikes. So I went with 6 gauge wire. You think that will be enough? The manual says 6 awg is the largest wire the inverter will accept on the ac output anyways.

[MountainDon]

Yes, copper is expensive

231 feet, 6 gauge, 120 VAC, copper: 30 amps = 5.66% drop
                                                  20 amps = 3.77%
                                                  15 amps = 2.83%
                                                  10 amps = 1.89%

That 6 gauge should be fine.

[EaglesSJ]

Is there a way to network my outback charge controller and my inverter through one power mate other than buying the $150 hub4? Can I use a regular router or no?

[MountainDon]

I never tried a standard router so I don't know.  Without a hub only one device can be connected. The outback Hub is powered by the Cat5 connection.

Did you buy one or two battery remote temperature sensors? With a hub you can use one, connected to the inverter as I recall, and the charge controller will read it through the hub. That way the temp regulator is used for both charge controller and generator charging.

I have two temp sensors, one on each the charge controller and the inverter. That is because when we are not there I de-power the inverter, pull the breaker, so there is nothing electrical active (AC) in the cabin. But doing that turns off the feed through from the inverter to the hub. That's when the temp sensor plugged into the charge controller keeps working.

[bluestarguy]

There now I can see the progress on the cabin, Too! Keep up the good work. Thanks Bruce

[ajbremer]

Thank you for all of your hard work that you not only put into your place but also put into your threads and pics on this site. I took an hour this morning and read about 1/2 of all of it but went forward and seen all the pictures. I'm pretty amazed at how fast it all went for you and very impressed that you got all dried in and looking good for under 10k? I might be wrong about that amount but I remember reading that in there somewhere. In case I'm wrong, about how much did it cost you to get dried-in?

I'm going to be starting on my 14x24 Little House (plans from here) and what you did has inspired me even more.

By the way, everyone needs to forgive your Aunt. People make mistakes, people change, and if they don't - oh well. This is in a book somewhere: "Be not judges of others, and you will not be judged: do not give punishment to others, and you will not get punishment yourselves: make others free, and you will be made free:"

[EaglesSJ]

All my parts came in and I am wiring up the battery bank for a 24v system. Does this look ok? The second row of batterys is actually below the first on a second shelf.

[MountainDon]

That will work.  

My personal preference would be to connect the series pairs that make 24 volts, to copper buss bars and then feed the inverter off those. That makes it easy to remove one or two batteries if the need ever arises, as in a cell failure.

Or...
Parallel strings with cables are best connected with the positive to inverter connection at one end of the parallel strings and the negative at the other end. The way you have it drawn the negative connects to the middle of the string. I've redrawn ...

In a straight line this is what I mean...



That makes a terrifically long negative cable though. Splitting and bending it around to fit two rows, two shelves...

[EaglesSJ]

Sorry for the late reply. Just got in from wiring all of it. Funny you should say wire it all to a buss bar and have the inverter feed off of that because its exactly what I done. Anyways here is the progress for tonight. Going to pick up panels tomorrow morning and then on with the rest of the project. If you could describe or post a pic of how to wire up the panels, combiner box, and dc breakers I would really appreciate it. Thanks again!

[EaglesSJ]

I would also like to add that the inverter power cables are temporary as my 4/0 cables 5 feet in length wont arrive until wednesday so for now I much do with those short smaller ones.

[MountainDon]

Is there going to be a fuse or a breaker in the positive wire from batteries to the inverter?
I used a large Airpax breaker from solarseller.com
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg96238#msg96238
Note that breakers usually should be mounted in the vertical position, not horizontal.


Here are some links to diagrams of how my system is wired, the first my hand drawn and the second one a computer generated diagram by tickhill
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6059.msg119820#msg119820
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6059.msg120194#msg120194

and a photo of the not quite completed, charge controller with breakers.
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=2335.msg96237#msg96237
I just had to wire the outgoing breaker and add the ground wire.

Hope that helps.

[rniles]

EaglesSJ: I just finished reading your thread - You and your family are an inspiration! Wonderful job to you all!

[EaglesSJ]

Ok so here is the deal, I have a gvfx 3524 outback inverter/charger and a coleman 5000w generator. I cut the end off of an extension cord as directed by arizona wind and sun and ran the ac hot neutral and ground to the inputs on the inverter and then plugged it into my gen set and started it up. I have a solid yellow light on the ac input of my inverter but no charging is taking place. any help would be much appreciated.

[MountainDon]

It is possible to turn off the battery charger in the inverter programming. I think the setting is for Charger:   Auto, On or Off or something like that.

If the batteries were very discharged it might not kick in. In that case charge with another charger first.

There is a delay built in and programmable. I have mine set to wait a couple minutes in warm weather and 10 minutes in cold weather. After the inverter senses generator input, the time delay counts down before it will begin to use the generator power.

It is possible the inverter does not like your generators output. The easiest way I know to check that is by connecting a generator like one of the Honda, Yamaha or other brand inverter/generators to the inverter input. They produce a pure sine wave AC. If the generator output is being passed through to the house wiring but it won't charge the batteries this could be the problem. The Mate will indicate where the house power is coming from.

Do you access to a good digital voltmeter to watch the output of the generator?  How about a frequency meter? The Kill-A-Watt meter works as long as the measured load is within the meters limits.

[EaglesSJ]

Outback tech support said that this particular grid tie model will not work with 99% of generators and so I am trying to exchange it for the mobile model which will work with basically any generator.

[MountainDon]

Hopefully you won't have too much trouble doing the exchange, since it was the vendor's error, right? 


Have to remember that for the future.

[EaglesSJ]

Hopefully not, still trying to work out the details. Been occupied with starting our first garden and havent thought too much more about it. Borrowed a 24v battery charger from my uncle and I have it feeding from my old 12v inverter which feeds from the 12v alternator on the diesel generator. having a 24v alternator built as we speak.

[professor]

Congratualations. Quite an accomplishment, family, & endeavor. Beautiful looking lot & elevation.

I too live in central KY. Yeah, winter's been wet & wild for around here.

I too am a US Air Force vet of some years past 1970-1974. Thank you for serving. Really enjoy the continuing story. It's a delight to follow your project. Thanks for sharing.

Believe I know you (your Dad actually) after I saw a picture of him. Probably live within 5 miles of your cabin. Will keep your name confidential. Will see your Dad & confirm that it's you. Considering something similar off-grid in next couple of years.

Contact me if I can be an extra body to help.  Best wishes to entire family.

[EaglesSJ]

What a small world it is!

Without further ado here are some pics of here are some more pics of the current progress. One of me and one of her. As you will see she is very excited with the panels.







More random shots of the interior to show our small horse gear setup and my reloading setup. Soon in the opposing corner Lindsay will have a scrapbooking area the size of my reloading area. Fair is fair I suppose





And as for the hardest worker of all, he stacked 2 ricks of wood all by his lonesome (well I packed a couple of the really large pieces) so for a hard days work we took him out for a new Lego set. We get there and to our surprise there is a cabin set. He was ecstatic. I guess I would be too if I just broke over $600 worth of legos lol.

[MountainDon]

Shane, I know I mentioned it once or twice someplace on here and I meant to mention a comment or two back.   Your electronics should not be located above the flooded wet cell batteries.    Two issues. One: there are relays in the charge controller. They may not be sealed. There could be a danger of hydrogen being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Same with the breakers/disconnects. Two: flooded batteries under charge not only produce gases but may produce acid fumes or spatter that are unkind to electronic and electrical equipment. The open stud bay on the left hand wall, second out from the corner, would be a much better location.

Wish I had acted on my thought when it occurred to me.

It would also be a good idea (safety) to enclose the batteries before something or someone causes an accidental short. If done well with a H2 vent from a designed in high point that could help with the issues I mentioned above.

[EaglesSJ]

It is my intention to enclose the batterys via plywood box of sorts and put a small computer fan venting directly outside.

I wish I could have heeded your warning about amperage more closely before I melted the handle on my 3/8" drive craftsman ratchet   

[MountainDon]

It could have been worse it would seem. Two 12 volt batteries in series is enough to do simple emergency welding on the trail if one has some welding sticks, jumper cables and a dark glass. Three in series is better, but one doesn't always have the luxury of that many batteries or friends at hand.

[astidham]

Nice work on your shop Eagles!
looks like your son earned those legos.