Small Cabin Foundation

[small cabin dreamer]

I plan to build my own 14x24 cabin with 10 foot side walls and 12/12 roof. This is going to be temporary until we can build a 20x30 on the same property (plan is in 8-10 years, but we all know how that can be). I have seen many pre-built cabins for sale of various sizes that can be delivered so one's site and they are built on 4x4 or 6x6 skids. What is the reason that for something that will not need to be permanent or will later be a storage shed that I could not build a 14x24 on the same type of 4x4's or 6x6's?

[Native_NM]

Building code.

Danger to life and property.


Of course there are probably millions of occupied homes built before modern code that are just fine.  If I was going to live in a temporary structure like that, at a minimum I would elevate and anchor similar to a mobile home.   

We have a portable office building we move from job to job.  Every time it is set up it is anchored to withstand 90mph winds.  It costs us about $300 each time.  We reuse the anchor/augers when we can.  The installer uses metal bands at enough points to meet code based on the soil conditions. 

Cheap options include steel cribbing that is leveled and pinned.  Add augers.

[karnf]

Welcome small cabin dreamer........We're glad to have you aboard.
I am one of the small cabin builders who because of financial pitfalls have been building a small 12x24 cabin which was built w/ 6"x6" beams as a pole barn with a 12:12 pitch metal roof. The side walls are avantex tongue and grove as well as the flooring and top loft. Very sold and sturdy building. Also I decided to close the dimensions to 12x20 with a four foot porch that is covered by the roof of the pole barn. I figured if I decide to add onto the cabin, the pole barn is an easy construction to do so.
All of my materials were bought discounted or recycled. I even got nine foot pressure treated fencing that I took apart stained and used for the outside siding and it looks great. I also found a metal door which is great if your cabin is in the woods for protection from predators.
Well I slowing finishing the inside as the money comes in, I can say it wasn't expensive to build and the 6" x 6" beams really made it strong. I may later decide that it could be used as storage if I build a bigger home but I like the thought of living small and saving as much land for nature.
I found a place in Mchenry Md that believes in building cabins small. They even built some cabins for a camping green community in the area call Blue Moon Rising. Small living and green.
The name of the cabin company is http://hobbitatspaces.com/.
Check it out for it may give you some ideas.
Good luck and all of us are wishing you well and are looking forward to your new way of living.

[Don_P]

Neither the prebuilt or the site built versions you are describing meet building code for a habitable structure. There is a minimum height requirement between the ground and untreated wood and the structure needs to be anchored to a foundation that is deep enough to prevent heaving in frost or being displaced in wind or earthquakes. The building laws don't consider "but I'm only living in it for a few years" a reason to lessen requirements. As you noted that temporary use tends to become permanent. There's the bad news.

Maybe build this as a shed roofed half of the final structure rather than as a disposable building, or build it as a wing that will be incorporated into the final house. Then there is more incentive to build it to at least minimum permanent standards, and with that less wasted time and material.

The prescriptive building methods are an option that doesn't require an architect or engineer's final design but it is not the only method of building. An engineered post frame building is indeed a viable option. In a post frame (the term for an engineered pole barn) the posts run unbroken from footing to top plate and are typically braced by the sheathing of the walls, roof and floors. Like a pier in that there is no continuous perimeter footing, the foundation phase can be relatively fast and simple. Unlike an unbraced pier the posts are braced by the entire structure to form a strong, stable building.

[small cabin dreamer]

Native NM, Thankyou for your input, we are in the middle of the woods in the UP of Michigan, so tornado's are not a concern, but I have seen some other people here post prebuilt structures and they used these anchors that screw into the ground and bolt them to the structure frame which I would do.

Karnf, Thankyou for the input, there must be people who shouldnt ever try to use a hammer to even put up pictures but have plenty of money to buy your structures and expect to stay in them over night.

Don P, Thankyou for your concern, but In the midwest here there are literally hundreds of places that sell buildings with the intent to be used as a cabin in the woods. And for the price of the siding and $5000-10,000 porch additions I do not think they are just for storage or porch with railings would not be necessary. If these hundreds of buildings were ALL unsafe and NEVER to code the local or federal Gov't would step in and say they could not be built or sold any longer. I agree with the footings and foundations, but to say none of them are safe or to code I think is a little far fetched.

[MountainDon]

Don P, Thankyou for your concern, but In the midwest here there are literally hundreds of places that sell buildings with the intent to be used as a cabin in the woods. And for the price of the siding and $5000-10,000 porch additions I do not think they are just for storage or porch with railings would not be necessary. If these hundreds of buildings were ALL unsafe and NEVER to code the local or federal Gov't would step in and say they could not be built or sold any longer. I agree with the footings and foundations, but to say none of them are safe or to code I think is a little far fetched.

Not just the midwest; they can be found country wide. I'm sure if anyone in Don_P's area wants a pre built shed they can be found there too. They are sold here in NM too. many folks are attracted to them for use as a cabin. Just because someone uses one as a cabin and "gets away with it" does not automatically make it safe.

When we started out quest for a cabin years ago, we looked at them too. We were offered all sorts of customizations, mostly aimed at making them habitable. However, when I asked the local city building dept and the state building dept that oversaw the country mountain area where we had land, I was told I could use one as a shed, no problem. But to convert one for use as a cabin would invoke a whole different set of rules. Those rules would make use of such converted shed (shed to cabin = shabin ) non conforming and illegal.

That is not to say that there are not hundreds, thousands of such sheds used as cabins. There are. That simply means code enforcement can be lax, more so in some areas than others.

One need only to become familiar with codes such as the IRC, to be able to see the many areas where pre built sheds fall short. Not all such buildings will fall down, but the majority will not have as long a life as a cabin designed and built to meet the minimal standards of any building code.  Over the years I have seen many DIY'ers start with a shed. Invariably they run into details that confound and befuddle or just make converting plain difficult.

The post frame method Don_P mentioned is a great alternative to building on some skids and building on a permanent code recognized foundation. It is my personal opinion that more DIY'ers should consider post frame when they are of a mind to forego a more conventional foundation.

[rick91351]

I would like to throw this in to the mix. 

An older couple got hit in the property bust a few years ago they lost their home and property in the valley.  They owned a piece of property up here in this part of Idaho free and clear.  They scraped together enough money to build two less than 200 sq ft dwellings and sort of 'dog trotted' them by location but not joined.  They took the chance and did it without a building permit.  They listened to others telling them there was nothing the county could do of they kept it less than 200 sq ft per building.  I was one of the few telling them DO NOT DO IT!

They do not have any extra income and a lot of people up here help them out where they can.  They even made it through the huge Elk Complex fire without any losses to speak of.  Then their luck ran out.  Someone got upset at the old couple and made a formal complaint.  The county had no other alternative than to step in and 'red tag' their two dwellings.  They now are living in a old travel trailer somewhere other than up here and most likely out of this state.  The two dwelling have to be dismantled, or destroyed.  Neither will even start to pass code.   Then they have to pay a rumor has it $3000 fine; then pull permits if they want to return to the property.  The old couple stands on there are hundreds of structures such as theirs up here in this part of Idaho....  Problem is the complaint was not on one of those hundreds of structures but on theirs.     

[small cabin dreamer]

Thank-You to all. These are very good points NOT to do this shed/ temp building as we will be living in it no matter how temporarily. I will go back to the original plans of a post and pier on the 14x24. Thank-you so much for all of your input, that is why I ask on this forum. Everyone is smarter than just one!!!!!

[JRR]

The "smartest of all" in this situation ... is the local licensing authority.  They know what's what.  I have found them to be folks who want to help.  That has been my experience ... your experience may be different, but it's always best to be "legal".

[Don_P]

And to continue with the legal end, post and pier is non prescriptive, engineer required, in the building code as well.

To throw a story similar to Rick's into the mix, we had a person post here a couple of years ago that I quickly realized was in my county. I cautioned them about their construction methods and said that it would be a good idea to talk to our inspector before proceeding further. They went quiet here but continued construction. I drove by and saw they had gotten as far as the second floor walls. I drove by a couple of weeks ago, it's been disassembled.

I agree with JRR, talk to the local authorities before proceeding, read and understand the relavent sections of your codebook.

[Native_NM]

I will add one more point:  the cost savings is minimal. 

In NM there are "sheds" for sale up and down HWY550.  Maybe $10k for a 32' shed.  I can build a basic cabin on a foundation for the same amount that has a permit and meets code. 

I can then sell it, live in it, and insure it.  I can leave it to my kids knowing it won't get demolished. 

We have friends up near the Four Corners.  Their dad built a plywood "shed" on some property and it served them well for years.  When he died they got the place.  When they went to transfer the deed, the county stepped in and wanted an inspection.  It didn't pass, wasn't on the tax rolls, and was tagged.  The fire department tagged the electric and the power company pulled the meter.  His dad had "friends" and had a meter installed years ago.  So now they owned a property they couldn't use and would end up costing them money to make right.   The local governments are all broke and all looking for revenue.  In the long run, you don't save anything. 

[John Raabe]

For the long term it is always best to know the local codes and building practices and build to them from the start. When you do so you are working towards building a real estate investment.

The best place to save money is on the finish end of the project not the site work, foundation, and basic structure. But it is human nature to start rather casually and then work from there.  This can lead to expensive or difficult decisions later as it is easy to overlook things that are later seen as important.

A neighbor built a nice sturdy house on a part of the site that doesn't have enough room for access. You have to back out a long driveway because there is not room for a turn around. With a little different site layout and house placement the problem could have been avoided at no additional cost.

[rick91351]

For the long term it is always best to know the local codes and build to them from the start. When you do so you are working towards building a real estate investment.

The best place to save money is on the finish end of the project not the foundation and site work. But it is human nature to start rather casually and then work from there.  This can lead to expensive or difficult decisions later as it is easy to overlook things that are later seen as important. A neighbor built a nice sturdy house on a part of the site that doesn't have enough room for access. You have to back out a long driveway because there is not room for a turn around. With a little different site layout and house placement the problem could have been avoided.

As usual John offers great sound advise.  I fail to see why people invest money and more importantly to me - time.  Both are invested into a project and do not built for longevity and heritage.  A well built home or dwelling today on a proper foundation, according to what I see a will now last 150 years.