41 years ago today the USS Liberty was attacked

[Sassy]

http://moderate.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/video-phil-tourneys-speech-uss-liberty-survivor-at-the-no-more-wars-for-israel-conference/

[glenn kangiser]

Listening to this, this Veteran Victim of our government and Israel mentioned McCain.

McCain ordered the coverup of this crime.  This was treason.  Welcome to business as usual and the criminals will maintain control.

When Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander in Chief, United States Naval Forces, Europe, ordered the cover-up on the attack of the USS LIBERTY GTR-5 it was a sure act of treason perpetrated on the American people and the crew of the LIBERTY to hide the true facts surrounding the unprovoked attack by the Government of Israel on our ship, the USS LIBERTY.

http://ussliberty.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/25/


In a false flag operation the US and Israel wanted to sink the Liberty to blame it on Egypt so we/they could take over Egypt.  The Liberty unfortunately did not sink.  The veterans were threatened with court martial if they talked about the crime.

We mean nothing to our government and are all expendable.

[Sassy]

Did anyone watch the video?  If you did you will see that it was Phil Tourney, one of the survivors on the USS Liberty speaking to a group of people, not a "conspiracy" rant by someone.  There are still many survivors who are speaking out, now, where before, the info was classified.

41 years since it sank - who did it?  An event that shocked the world, almost put us in another war...  no comments?

[MountainDon]

Well, there's at least three separate threads going on this; this one seems like a handy spot...

As with every story there are two sides. All too often one side is mostly ignored. On the internet it is easy to bury the opposing story with a barrage of one-sided emotional rhetoric. Also all too often on the internet you find a plethora of coinciding opinions that all base their "facts" on the same partly factual, misinterpreted, incomplete information.

Yes, the Liberty incident was a tragedy. Yes, US sailors died. And like the US downing of an Iranian passenger jet, or the attack by US Jets on our own helicopters during the gulf war, the Liberty incident teaches us about the tragedy and mistakes of war.

You might think that a crew member of the USS Liberty at the time would be in an ideal position to know what really happened. But that is like claiming that a crew member of the USS Arizona on December 7, 1941 was in an ideal position to know what transpired among the officers of the Japanese Imperial Fleet prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, or an NVA soldier during the Vietnam War could understand the inner workings of Robert McNamara. None of the seamen aboard the USS Liberty could have known all the facts surrounding the case. Mistakes were made; such as the messages sent to recall the USS Liberty from the war zone were delayed and never reached the ship until after the attack.

There is a book by Jay Cristol, a United States Judge who has devoted 14+ years to the FACTS of what went on that day. Fourteen years; not 14 minutes like somany conspiracy theorist bloggers seem to have taken. The book is The Liberty Incident. He sued the NSA under the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) and in 2004 the NSA released tapes from a Navy EC-121 that was flying in the area.

Let it be noted that the Liberty Veteran's Association was founded with the assistance of two former United States Congressman, Paul Findley of Illinois, the first U.S. Congressman to espouse the PLO, and Paul McCloskey, who is well known for his anti-Israel sentiments. McCloskey drafted the incorporation papers for the Association and also served as legal adviser to the Association. He has spoken at Holocaust denial organization conferences. He and Findley, together with three other former congresspersons, established the Council for the National Interest, CNI, an organization whose avowed purposes (according to their own press release) was to be an anti-Israel lobby.

So it seems to me that there's a second tragedy going on about this. That is the unfair and incorrect claims that this was yet another conspiracy by the US government, rather than yet another in a never ending series of costly mistakes that can be made in the heat of battle by any Army, any Air Force or any Navy.

Of course conspiracy theorists will disagree. 

[glenn kangiser]

Of course.

[glenn kangiser]

The Internet is a place where true and untrue news can share a space without the censorship of corporations owing favors to the government.

Even Israeli's are saying they knew it was an American ship.  Who are we to tell them they don't know what they are talking about? 

Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html

These reports have to have some credibility.

These guys say that Cristol's book is part of the coverup which is not hard to believe and you couldn't blame them after the attack.

This page wouldn't be complete without a comment or two about A. Jay Cristol's book, "The Liberty Incident." Cristol made 16 trips to Israel in "investigating" the Liberty incident. Presumably, he had contacts with high level military and civilian personnel there -- interviewing over 500 people and brought back with him his version of the attack on the Liberty. Some of the half-dozen survivors he claims he had interviewed deny it completely.

He displays gun camera footage of the attack, obtained from Israel -- that is out-and-out fraudulent. The footage was actually obtained as the Liberty was returning to Little Creek, VA, AFTER the attack. For proof, see: http://www.freewebs.com/gidusko/cam_frd/

Why are we so quick to disregard stories from survivors but accept, hook, line and sinker the official disputed story of the government?

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

[sparks]

  Just my two cents worth.

Wasn't the Liberty assaulted initially, the attack broken off for a period of time, then started again?

Is this accurate??

[glenn kangiser]

I've got to study it closer to see if that is the case.  I know there was an air assault then torpedo boat came in to finish them off.

Our planes fighter jets were sent out out assist them but were called back by Johnson and McNamarra

Nor, the survivors said, did they understand why the American 6th Fleet, which included the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, patrolling 400 miles west of the Liberty, launched and then recalled at least two squadrons of Navy fighter-bombers that might have arrived in time to prevent the torpedo attack -- and save 26 American lives.

J.Q. "Tony" Hart, then a chief petty officer assigned to a U.S. Navy relay station in Morocco that handled communications between Washington and the 6th Fleet, remembered listening as Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, in Washington, ordered Rear Adm. Lawrence Geis, commander of the America's carrier battle group, to bring the jets home.

When Geis protested that the Liberty was under attack and needed help, Hart said, McNamara retorted that "President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors."

---------

See the rest of this long, astonishingly detailed and overdue story here: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,6015776.story

Looks like it was a pretty continuous attack, Sparks , with something like 14 minute between the planes and torpedos.

THE ATTACK ON THE LIBERTY

1:56 p.m. Two Israeli Mirage III aircraft, followed by two Super Mystere aircraft, begin their attack on the Liberty.

2:14 p.m. The chief Israeli air controller in Tel Aviv tells the controller who is directing the attack on the Liberty that the ship is "apparently American."

2:20 p.m. The Israeli naval commander orders the commander of the Torpedo Boat Division to attack the Liberty. At almost the same time, the Naval Operations Branch orders: "Do not attack. It is possible that the aircraft have not identified correctly." The commander of the Torpedo Boat Division says he never got any order to cease the attack, although the deputy commander says he passed the message to the commander.

2:24 p.m. Liberty sights three MTBs 4-5 miles away and closing fast.

2:26 p.m. Liberty raises its largest American flag, the "Holiday colors."

2:27 p.m. Three torpedo boats begin strafing the Liberty and launch their six torpedoes.

2:28 p.m. Five torpedoes miss the ship, but one strikes the Liberty's right side, leaving a 39-foot hole.


more here

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,811044,print.story

[Sassy]

ISRAEL DID NOT PAY REPARATIONS TO THE SURVIVORS OF THE USS LIBERTY!

What Really Happened

Source: Liberty News
The Newsletter of the USS Liberty Veterans Association
Issues 3 & 4 Volume 8/March-June 1990

Comments: During this time period the USS Liberty issues were featured in the Sentinel. Research with the paper and the Keene, New Hampshire public library did not show that the article was actually printed in the letters to the editor. However, the Liberty Newsletter confirms it was written and sent to the paper.

Thursday, April 19, 1990

Letter to the Editor
Keene Sentinel
Keene, New Hampshire

Editor:

I recently received the �Liberty News,� published by the USS Liberty Veterans Association, featuring the 1989 months long exchanges in your paper relating to the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty. At this late date, I�d like to throw in my two cents on a topic brought up by two letters critical of the Sentinel and not answered by your supporters.

The two letters stated that Israel had paid �reparations� to the wounded and next-of-kin of those killed and to the U.S. for the damage to Liberty. I take exception to that. I will explain that Israel didn�t pay one thin dime.

U.S. TAXPAYERS PAID ALL THAT WAS PAID!

An arrangement was agreed to by Israel only after U.S. aid to Israel was increased from $13 million in Fiscal Year 1967 to a whopping $76.8 million in Fiscal Year 1968. That aid increase took care of negotiations for the crew, dead and wounded. These payments were made with U.S. Government checks in late Spring, 1968.

Israel then refused to pay for the LIBERTY damage. The United States government then increased the aid to Israel to $121.7 million for FY 1969. The new negotiations began and Israel agreed to pay $7.6 million damages for the $40 million ship�which was sold for less than $200,000.00 as scrap. But Israel DID NOT PAY as promised when U.S. aid was cut to $71 million for FY 1970, even though that was still five times the U.S. aid of 1967. And the bill remained unpaid (and not deducted from the increased U.S. aid).

With the election of Ronald Reagan in November of 1980, Israel was unsure of how good a friend to Israel Reagan would be. �A bird in the hand,� so to speak and Israel initiated new USS LIBERTY damage negotiations with �old friend� Jimmy Carter. In December, 1980 the state Department announced that Israel had agreed to pay a total of $6 million for the LIBERTY in three payments over the next three years. A State Department official was quoted (as saying), �The book is closed on the USS LIBERTY.� That was 10-1/2 years after Israel had agreed to pay $7.6 million. No interest was to be paid by Israel. Even this last agreement was not kept per the agreement. It was reported in 1988, five years after Carter�s agreement should have been paid off, that Israel had finally paid the last installment.

Between the attack by Israel on the LIBERTY in 1967 and the �last payment,� some $45 billion is U.S. (U.S. taxpayer money) has been given to Israel by �bought� U.S. politicians. Any payments were deducted from ever increasing U.S. aid to Israel.

But that is not the end of the story.

To give money to Israel, the U.S. must first borrow the money and pay interest on that borrowed money. The money and the interest become part of our FEDERAL DEBT, now more than THREE TRILLION DOLLARS. We, the U.S. taxpayers, are today paying interest on the FIRST DOLLAR in aid given to Israel in 1949 and all in between.

Using U.S. treasury interest tables on �interest rates we have paid,� year by year, to borrow money through 1983 and using 10 percent (1984-1990), AID TO ISRAEL WITH INTEREST COMPOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL AMOUNTS TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUS COST TO U.S. TAXPAYERS OF $128.138 BILLION (ONE HUNDRED TWENTY-EIGHT BILLION, ONE HUNDRED THIRTY-EIGHT MILLION DOLLARS).

All aid to Israel is now in GRANTS, never to be repaid. And unlike aid to other countries that receive their aid quarterly, Israel is given all their aid at the start of each of our Fiscal Years, thereby costing United States taxpayers an additional $50 million or so in interest each year. And aid to Israel is not subject to any cuts if budget cuts are made necessary by the Gramm-Rudman Act.

No, Israel did not pay reparations for the USS LIBERTY nor to the wounded and the next of kin of those killed as Fred Slavic and four others stated in their letters. Even United States aid to Egypt is to pay Egypt for its peace with Israel.

Gip D. Oldham, Jr.
6008 E. University Boulevard
Dallas, TX 75206
Copyright © 2008 WhatReallyHappened.com

[benevolance]

it just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside that the man who helped his dad cover this up... is now running for president...

where is the barfie emoticon when you need him

[Sassy]