Get out of the City NOW!

[John Raabe]

I don't want to be an alarmist,

But... more than any other time I can remember, high density urban living could quickly become hazardous to your health and well being. Consider the following:

• We are facing a potential flu epidemic even larger than in 1918 — http://tinyurl.com/b2ddv. This one could come upon us very quickly and devastate urban centers.
• The Rita and Katrina examples have shown us that millions of people are at the mercy of inadequate infrastructure, transportation systems and government agencies for their basic living requirements when real problems arise. http://tinyurl.com/7zezl.
• From Baghdad to New Orleans, when civil authority breaks down anarchy quickly strips away the veneer of modern civilization and destruction and looting spread like wildfire in a dry dense forest. While there are many stories of heroism and personal sacrifice as well, most of us would choose not to stick around to find out which gets to us first.

For these and other reasons it may be prudent to have a small retreat home where a simpler and more self-sufficient lifestyle could be maintained if times should get rough. Such an investment now could save your life and, even if none of this happens, would probably be a good real estate investment and weekend getaway should we continue to muddle along dodging the bullets.

[glenn kangiser]

100% agreed - better to be prepared than to wish you had been.

Big brother cannot, will not and does not wish to take care of you unless there is some way to make a profit on it for the big boys, but don't expect special attention because they care about you.  Don't have the attitude that it can't happen here.  Maybe it won't but if it does, that is when it is too late to do something about it.

You have been brought up to believe in the dream of social security, life after work, managed health care, stores with food in them always, gas stations with gas always.  Most are on "just in time" schedules and carry no extra stock.  A one to three day supply for looters or people just trying to survive.

Maybe you think it can't happen in your area-- not under sea level - not a hurricane area, etc.  All it takes is a slightly larger burp in the system to include your favorite metropolitan area also.  Fuel problems lead to transportation and farming problems.  If trucks or farms can't get it or can't afford it, you won't have it supplied to buy either.  Greenbacks don't taste good, even if you are lucky enough to have them.  Develop networks with locals.  Help each other.  Look out for each other.  Learn to garden.  Have an alternate clean water supply in mind.  

Use it while you can but don't get caught with your pants down.  Grow up.  Look around.  Learn to take care of yourself.  Work toward self sufficiency.

 Once again Bambi saw the Great Prince Of The Forest. "Your mother can no longer be with you. You must learn to walk alone."

[Epiphany]

I've been preaching this for years, and storing water, food, and other essentials and my kids and what few friends and family I talked to about it always thought I was kind of a wacky old hippie.  After New Orleans, they're asking me what they should do for their families....

Sadly, the hurricanes have been great teaching tools....

[Jimmy C.]

The next time you see a policeman..
Thank him for being there.
 New Orleans is the American proof of what will happen if the police are not in sight.

After 9-11 I was afraid to go to a major sporting event. I still am a little freaked out in large gatherings of people.  I am trying to get up enough courage to go to the Texas State fair.

I love livin' in a rural area.. Let Osama or his buddies try find me in the woods!

[Epiphany]

My understanding is that some of New Orleans' finest participated in the looting, and that some 250 officers walked off the job.  

I agree with your saying thank them if they're there.  The majority of them are dedicated public servants.

Some of the 250 that abandoned their posts have applied to the Dallas Police Department.  

[Epiphany]

One of the things I've found particularly disturbing is the way the government handled the "mandatory" evacuation in New Orleans weeks AFTER the hurricane, and when people wouldn't leave their largely undamaged homes, confiscated their guns, thereby leaving them unable to protect themselves from the roving gangs of criminals.  It seems strange to me how focused they were on disarming citizens instead of rounding up the criminals.

You'll notice there was no confiscation of firearms in Texas....  

[Bart_Cubbins]

Many of the stories of violence and anrachy in New Orleans have been debunked. They were largely the product of rumor, paranoia and a press willing to publish absolutely sensational stories without getting confirmation...

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_26.html#082732

Also, we don't know that 250 officers walked off the job. Quite likely the majority of them were themselves trapped in their homes, or were outside the city and helping out wherever they happened to be stuck, or searching for their own family members.

I don't believe civilization is that fragile. Once the most basic needs of food, water and minimal shelter are taken care of, most people will pull together and help out in any way they can during a crisis.

It makes sense to be relatively self-sufficient. Depending on the government to save you is a gamble. Any large organization is subject to inertia and the tendency to "fight the last war". Government is the largest organization of all.

Having a backup plan, a place to go if the need arises, makes sense. However, being in the country isn't inherently safer than being in the city. That depends on the type and scope of the disaster. When help arrives, it will go to the population centers first. If you needed assistance, you wouldn't want to be stuck in the country without transportation or communication.

[Epiphany]

My source was per Reuters and Knight Ridder, who stated that 12 officers were being investigated for looting.  4 officers have already been suspended.

The same articles said that 249 officers were aol and were being investigated.  

I'm sure some were stranded or unable to get to work but there were evidently some who abandoned their posts.  

Even the officers who stayed and did their jobs weren't a match for the throngs of criminals.  We need to be proactive and look out for ourselves and our families in times of crisis.

[glenn kangiser]

I have to offer a different view on some of that, Bart.  

Country people naturally store goods since the store is not usually next door.  They are used to helping each other since many services are not available without a fairly long trip.  I want to encourage people to expand on that a bit, as you agreed was a good idea.

Some of the first rescuers that were turned back by Government people were from a country hunting and fishing group with near 500 boats and near a thousand people who were familiar with swamps and survival etc.  FEMA ordered two WalMart stores closed.  The local Parish sheriffs had to commandeer the stores, order them to open in spite of FEMA and order that if any FEMA officials tried to close them down, they would be arrested.  Clearly another agenda somewhere there besides seeing that needs were cared for.  Ones who were able to head for dry land on foot were met by the police with shotguns and rifles in the next town as they tried to cross the bridge to safety.  They were sent back to N.O. as they were too poor to enter Gretna.  They weren't going to be allowed to save themselves let alone remain to become a blight on the city.

I have to say I would prefer being semi-self sufficient in the country with no communication to being in the city with anarchy prevailing and waiting for help that I may not live to see.  NOLA was not safe before Katrina at night.  As convention attenders we were warned not to venture out into the back streets at night or to go near the cemeteries due to the high probability of being mugged or worse.  This was several years ago when things were under control.

Police cannot control crime in any city right now from the smallest to the largest.  When they are not visible -even if they are only holding a radar gun to keep up the stream of revenue, crime will be worse.

As an example, I chased down a prostitute and two pimps with my Kenworth Conventional after they stole a new portable bandsaw from my truck.  I had police on the phone the first time I caught them - no available officers-- I had the dispatcher on the phone as I chased them through the outskirts of the city giving her updates on location continuously - no officers available-- finally the damn dispatch lady said "Did anyone ever tell you you should stop chasing them so you don't hurt somebody."  So much for government assistance and public servants.  They serve the public alright but many times it is to keep the working class from hurting the criminals.  Just be late on a tax payment though.

[Jimmy C.]

Many of the stories of violence and anrachy in New Orleans have been debunked. They were largely the product of rumor, paranoia and a press willing to publish absolutely sensational stories without getting confirmation...

I agree that some of this was fiction.

 However, in low income or no income areas people stay behind in anticipation of evacuations so they can take things that do not belong to them.

Been there..
Known the people...

What I found interesting was

3 days after Katrina hit Biloxi.

 You could not buy anything with cash.

Everything became like an open air market.
The main items being traded....

Beer...
Cigarettes.....
Gasoline.......

If people knew you had these things in any quantity
you were in danger!

We had our 250 gallons of gasoline hidden deep in the trailer.

[melwynnd]

I find it interesting that the most traded items were all basically "luxuries".  Do you suppose that it's because people are assuming the government is going to come in with food and water?

Seems like I'd want more vital things.  

We try to keep at least a six month supply of food all the time.  The bad thing is........everyone in the area knows we have a pretty much self-sufficient farm(milk cow, garden, livestock to butcher).  I wonder if I could turn hungry people away......or if we'd have enough bullets?

Sherry

[glenn kangiser]

I don't think you could shoot your way out to preserve your goods.  I would encourage others to become self sufficient also.  Getting to know, deal and trade materials, labor and ideas etc. with your neighbors -networking- can be a great asset in times of problems.

Having a start from storage can give you more time to work on continued self sustenance and education of others.

I think the largest threats will be in the cities themselves with the worst elements working on taking out or from each other.  The remainder may head out of Dodge if they can get there.

As John pointed out --no need to be an alarmist about it-- just prepare to be more self sufficient as would be a good idea at anytime in your everyday life.

Vitruvius
From Wikiquote

Marcus Vitruvius (b.70(c.) - d. 25bc) was a Roman Architect.  He stated,

     * Such as possess the gifts of fortune are easily deprived of them: but when learning is once fixed in the mind, no age removes it, nor is its stability affected during the whole course of life.


Link to possible reasons false stories were floated by government officials and news agencies in NOLA as mentioned by Bart above.  

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/sep2005/lies-s30_prn.shtml

And one to a story sworn to be true:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/30/nopd.looting/index.html

[FrankInWI]

I havn't been around for a few weeks.  Wow what a thread.  When I read the start of the post I thought it was some naive alarmist...and then I look up and was surprised it's our benefactor.  Made me think.... I respect many things about John, let's give this some more credibility.  
I guess I could argue either way, but would side with country being a better place in really bad times.
I almost chocked when I seen the articles in the post preceding this were from a Socialist paper.  Wow!  I would always think this group is pretty much to the right..... and I am a bit to the left.  I think we all know though that when you get out to the extreemes, some of the thinking sounds the same.  

[Amanda_931]

We're kind of all over the place.

I know I am--UAW retired, and overeducated bum.

We've got plenty of things in common, don't need to emphasize what we don't.

[glenn kangiser]

Politically- I'm not right - left - socialist or communist-- I  just want the straight poop.  I wouldn't pull a drowning politician out of the flood waters of New Orleans.  I feel it is my duty try to help improve the world.

People are turning off their TV's  -- some are turning off Rush--- some are not accepting the lies they are being fed daily to keep them in fear so they can be controlled. Compare what they say to what you know to be true.  Question all inconsistencies.  Try to find out when you are being fed lies.  Follow the money.  Learn what's really going on or at least try to understand it.  Lose the fear.   Some are going to the Internet for news that is not dictated to the 6 major media owners by the government.  Ever wonder why about 66 journalists have been shot in Iraq including ones set up by the US?  They attempted to tell the truth.  http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=8525

Don't fear a dying or dead past CIA asset in a cave in Afghanistan  who's relatives and business partners of King George the First were flown out of the US immediately after 9-11.  You are supposed to be scared.  The propaganda machine is running full speed ahead.  Scared people will support the savior who is going to stomp the bogeyman for them.  When that bogeyman no longer scares you they will pull out another one. Example -- Code Yellow, Orange, whoops-- Code Red - get out the duct (or duck if you prefer) tape and plastic.  It's the only way to keep support for an agenda based on lies.

Go buy some tickets to the game, Jimmy.  Buy some hot dogs and beer.  Turn off the TV.  Have a look at http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ for links to real news stories  - most link to mainstream media- not conspiracy theory sites- many stories the media tries to lose.   After the game work on your self sufficiency ideas and continue work on the house.  

You don't have to know everything that's going on - just try to understand that it is much deeper than the facade of lies you are being fed by the mainstream media.  Not all terror originates in the middle east.  You'll feel better for it.  

When you can't believe what your public servants tell you, it is time to look out for yourself.  Build the retreat - start the garden.  Be prepared for whatever weirdness may appear, even if it doesn't happen.  Only by advance preparation can you improve your chances in the event of unexpected calamity.  Nobody is saying it will happen - just saying that if there ever was a time to try to improve your situation, it is now.  It doesn't need to be a giant alarmed rush.  Just make self sufficiency a goal in life.  I've been working on it for years.  Every step  is an improvement.

    * "Were the Soviet Union to sink tomorrow under the waters of the ocean, the American military-industrial establishment would have to go on, substantially unchanged, until some other adversary could be invented. Anything else would be an unacceptable shock to the American economy." -George Kennan, 1987


"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." ~ J. Edgar Hoover

[markbrown]

did u see the  russians launched  a test missle this last week, ICBM and it hit its intended target!!

russia to launch to nuke subs with 12 nuke missles each by years end

mark

[glenn kangiser]

I saw the successful missle test story - I was not surprised.  Our policies and leaderships desire for pre-emptive nukes has the rest of the world desiring to protect itself --only a natural reaction.  http://www.spacewar.com/news/nuclear-doctrine-05zzh.html

They will not waste a nuke on your country retreat.  They would target a city for the greatest infliction of casualties, just as we did in Japan, giving you time for plenty of duck tape and plastic.

People of the world do not feel the same about us as we feel about ourselves.  We are seen to many as the largest terrorist threat in the world.  http://simurl.com/jozdok

Our leadership represents us to the rest of the world.  If it spews hate and threats, naturally they will prepare for it.  If we threaten to send pre-emptive nukes, we can't expect the rest of the world to send us flowers and gifts of love.  The signal is sent not only to the intended victim-- it is sent to all the world.  Will all nations sit back and allow this to continue as it is, or will they form other alliances just in case?  http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=45963

How many Chinese does it take to bulldog a cowboy?

You should remember from school lessons that the best way to defeat the class bully was to get a bunch of your friends together and when you catch him alone, give him a good beating.  As an example, go next door and slug your neighbor.  No -don't - I was just trying to make a point.  Now offer to help your neighbor put a plan together for helping each other in case of emergency - have a barbecue- assist on an overwhelming project.  Help to make them more self sufficient also.  The benefits outweigh the time spent.  If we can't control our representatives to the world, we can at least make plans to get ourselves a little farther out of harms way.

[Jimmy C.]

Go buy some tickets to the game, Jimmy.  Buy some hot dogs and beer.  Turn off the TV.  

Have a look at http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ for links to real news stories  - most link to mainstream media- not conspiracy theory sites- many stories the media tries to lose.   After the game work on your self sufficiency ideas and continue work on the house.  

A ballgame, hotdog and a beer sounds really good to me right now!

That web site is a great collection of info! Thanks

[Amanda_931]

I do like that J Edgar Hoover quote, especially considering the source!  He did believe in those conspiracies.

[glenn kangiser]

I had just picked up a fitting quote.  Now you made me do a quick study on him, Amanda.  Looks like he should know.  I guess conspiracy was part of what helped keep him in a job all those years-- that and his private files on everyone.

[Leo]

I met My wife in New Orleans and we lived there for a while,that town has a murder rate 10x the national average.on new years eve we sat and listened to gun fire of all kinds some automatic. most people we knew had been mugged atleast once.You always keep atleast 20$ in youre pocket there as if you have no money they get mad and shoot You.      I consider myself a realist but I think our society is in decay morally etc.   katrina has proved the cavalry may be late and the best and worst in people will show in an emergency.       this thing with oil is getting worse and is vulnerable to weather,politics and worst of all GREED.        but what scares me most are Viruses and disease. My youngest sons peditrician told me last year was the worst she had seen and FLU? season went right through the summer.   It is in my mind that if any nasty plagues show its time to become a social recluse.   Our global economy and  increase of travel really spreads things around.There are 20,000 students in our little town and everytime they return from the holidays there seems to be new bugs around.   The cabin just reached the point of floors and I am determined to finish the dry in phase before december.   in the five days I just spent there I saw three cars one the meter reader ,one someone checking on a summer home for friends and a family looking for  land near the water.  So  I see a cabin as a win ,win situation  a peaceful  retreat with fihing a few feet away and game of all kinds,an investment,the building process has been healthy and a study in patience and a place for us to go in an emergency.Dang why didnt I do this sooner?

[Lady_Novice]

Great topic. I was one of those people who did some preparations for Y2K. Of course, Y2K turned out to be no big deal. A friend of mine (who thought it was foolish to worry about it) told me "I hate to say I told you so, but I did tell you so." I told him something like, "No! Preparing was the right thing to do at the time. Experts said there were potential problems, and unless you had some insider knowledge about the future outcome that few people had, then preparing for Y2K was prudent, no matter how it turned out, like preparing for a hurricane that may or may not come ashore." (He just rolled his eyes.) But I've liked having more self-sufficiency knowledge (albeit limited), whether it comes in handy or not. I also think it heightened my long-held interest in building my own home.

I still believe in a cautious mindset as above, both because no one can know what the future holds, either for oneself or for society (e.g., illness, natural disasters, economic dislocations, and so on), and because America is too proud and distracted to acknowledge and take care of its deep-seated problems. Katrina revealed some of our weaknesses. And whether government expenditures result from policies of the left or the right, I've never understood why it's A-OK for our government to go deeply in debt, threatening our economy and passing all that onto our heirs.

As for living in the city versus the country, I'm struggling with mixed feelings. In my profession, I can telecommute (albeit with lower and less stable income), and will do so once I finish building my home. So I can live anywhere, but trade-offs include many things, such as the higher income in larger cities versus the higher real estate costs there. Until recently, I thought I wanted to live closer to the country but, ever since I started reading about the potential "peak oil" problem, I can understand the value of being near decent public transportation, and closer to other people with whom to exchange services. Also, part of me misses some of the attributes of the bigger cities. So I can't have my cake and eat it, too. I'll have to resolve this issue for myself in the future.

Well, that's enough baring of my soul for today. :-)
LN

[Quil]

This is a very interesting topic!! I currently live in the "country"  and have for almost twenty years. Society has changed a lot since then. My home has been burglurized three times in the last ten years. Neighbors can't see the house. We store food and have gardens We use wood heat for power outages etc. We had a mind set to be some what self suffient. But maintaining fire wood, growing gardens, tending fruit trees etc is a lot of work and takes a lot of time.  We commute farther so we have  the expense of that. I don't think you need to run off to the country to survive a crisis. I agrre with Glenn about developing network with locals and striving toward a since of community. I wish I had more time to volunteer to help my community and less time communting. The next place I am moving to has a strong community that is way I chose the area. We can't change the world only a small part of it.

[Epiphany]

My current plan is not so much running away from the city, but to have a different kind of life altogether.  I'm buying land near my sister and having the Builder's Cottage built as a weekend retreat for now, retirement home for later.  Should something happen in the big city, I won't be homeless and heading for the convention center, I will at least have options.   With the lower cost of living in the Builder's Cottage, and the ability to have a garden, etc. and if I can find a job in the small town, I may move out there before retirement.  I also look at it as something to leave my kids.  If nothing else, a retreat for them.  

[glenn-k]

That sounds like exactly what we're talking about, Epiphany.

Gardens can easily be kept watered while you are away with a drip irrigation system you can install yourself.  All above ground, it can be controlled with a simple battery powered hose timer and uses a relatively small amount of water.  Individual drippers, drip tape, soaker hoses and mini-sprinklers are available.

We have relatives who bought land in Idaho during the Y2K thing-- they went ahead with their project, moved up there and we can hardly get them to come back to visit.  They love it and don't plan to go back to city life.