Alternative energy, from alternative forces

[MountainDon]

.... Betcha Don will have a comparison table before this thread is done

Sigh...such high expectations...


BTU comparisons of some other fuels

1 gallon diesel = 139,200 BTU
1 lb hydrogen = 51,892 BTU with steam as product
1 lb coal (anthracite) = 12,700 BTU
1 lb coal (subbituminous) = 8,800 BTU
1 lb coal (bituminous) = 11,500 BTU
1 lb pine wood bark = 9,200 BTU
1 lb hardwood bark = 8,400 BTU
1 lb wood = 7,870 BTU
1 lb dung = 7,500 BTU
1 lb waste paper = 6,500 BTU
1 lb sawdust/shavings = 3,850 BTU
1 kWH electricity = 3,413 BTU
1 therm any fuel = 100,000 BT
1 gal propane = 91500 BTU
1 lb propane = 21600 BTU
1 cu ft Natural Gas =  1075 BTU

[MountainDon]

A coal fire demands being tended on a rigid schedule. Unlike a wood fire that can be left to die down to embers, coal fires can not. They must be maintained. You need to shake or rotate the grates, have ashes and clinker fall through below the grates and add new coal on top of the fire. If you mess up and let the fire die down too far, you have to pretty much clear the firebox and start over by first building up a good bed of hardwood coals, then adding coal, preferably anthracite as it burns cleaner.

The coal ashes are toxic compared to wood ashes that can be beneficial. Coal smoke has an distinct, and to me acrid smell I don't particularly like.

Alomg with the fire tending there's the boiler tending. Steam is or can be dangerous.

But it would be a cool unit. 

[phalynx]

1 lb dung = 7,500 BTU

Hmmmmm, this gives me an idea....wait, no, I better not post.  Don will post a diagram...  I better go ahead and make my point.  Perhaps others can follow and we can all do our part.

[JRR]

"I dig sixteen tons and whadda I get? .... "

.... agh, you kids are too young.

[glenn kangiser]

I'm sure my wife will notice that you forgot to close the lid...

I bet she will have a comment...

[glenn kangiser]

"I dig sixteen tons and whadda I get? .... "

.... agh, you kids are too young.

...a hernia

..another day older and deeper in doodoo...

[John_C]

Solar in good sunlight produces about 1500 watts per square yard if you could harvest it all.  Inefficiencies  in equipment prevent getting it all but it's there.

I didn't know the number.  What is the current level of efficiency converting to elec?

[Sassy]

I'm sure my wife will notice that you forgot to close the lid...

I bet she will have a comment...

And not to disappoint you, DH, you used to always close the lid, it's only been in the past few months that you have been rather absent-minded...  and it's not fun in the middle of the night in the dark,  when I lift what I think is the lid & it's actually the seat & I sit down 

JRR, now I have the song running through my mind...  not so bad, I always liked the song & at least I don't have System of a Down music in there right now (Glenn plays it over & over & over - he still thinks he's a kid  )

[glenn kangiser]

It is very entertaining when she hits the cold porcelain though....

[MountainDon]

  What is the current level of efficiency converting to elec?

12 to 17% IIRC. 

I haven't looked it up recently.

[phalynx]

You know Sassy, you bring up a pet peeve of mine.  Why in the world can't you ladies put the toilet seat up when you are done.  I mean, do you know how upset we men get when we have to go and you forgot to put the seat up again.  I mean come on,, its just manners!!!!   

[glenn kangiser]

I would say that's close --- 10 square feet of panel puts out  around 120 to 135 watts

[Sassy]

You know Sassy, you bring up a pet peeve of mine.  Why in the world can't you ladies put the toilet seat up when you are done.  I mean, do you know how upset we men get when we have to go and you forgot to put the seat up again.  I mean come on,, its just manners!!!!   

 

[Jens]

"I dig sixteen tons and whadda I get? .... "

.... agh, you kids are too young.

"St Peter don't ya call me cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company sto"

[John_C]

Lance Armstrong is in the first race of his comeback.  He was in a breakaway with 12 other very good riders and here is a quote about the pace....

"I mean, I looked down at my power metre and the average after two hours was 340 watts, you can't do that in training"

That's .45  horsepower.

[John_C]

From Friday's time trial in the Tour of California

Gustav Larson  ........ his 486 average watts in the 30-minute event..... 
.... good enough for third place.

Some of these guys would be worth connecting to a generator.

[Jens]

instead of having low flow shower heads, why not have full flowing heads that simply have a small hydro turbine inside of them to restrict the flow?  Airration might be a problem though, to still feel like you are getting full pressure.

[glenn kangiser]

Not a lot of power produced there but could be some.  

I often think of a stirling cycle engine on top of my wood stove in the winter to generate a bit of power for a pretty long period of time.  Why haven't I tried it  hmm .... I'm pretty lazy...  

[MountainDon]

  hmm .... I'm pretty lazy...  

might be more energy used in the implementation than that produced. 

[glenn kangiser]

For me likely but I think that the Stirling could do a bit of good.  Even 50 watts for 10 hours is something.

[MountainDon]

It's one of those things that would be cool, but I need some reason that's more tangible than being cool. I'm cool as it is.   

[glenn kangiser]

Practical...  - if you have a small draw in the winter - more than you are picking up with solar, then even a small positive charge for quite a few hours could eliminate having to run the generator, and we run the stove for a good four months a lot of the time.  

It seems like a decent energy source.

...and Hot ---they say I'm Hot, Don.

[speedfunk]

Glenn,
I always thought a sterling engine would be awesome to have .  I've seen the parabolic shaped reflective disc with a sterling engine mounted to it.  They don't seem to sell it any more.  I wish I could find someone that made them.  

KNOW OF ANYWHERE

how about a rotary sterling engine....    I'm not sure how that would work though    

The sterling engine on  stove idea seems like a great idea esp if the other side of the sterling is sitting outside in the cold air .  

I thought about a satalite dish with a sterling engine in the middle with the "cool" side of the engine ran through a cool water source.  this way is the summer the temp differental could be raised more then just using the ambient air?  


JEns,  I know a few towns that get their water from a mountain spring pretty high up in the hills and the pressure is to high by the time it gets down the hill.  I'm not sure how they regulate the pressure but instead a turbine would make a lot of sense.  

[Jens]

I agree that the shower head idea may not make sense fiscally.  Then again, an electric motor is just a generator in reverse, and they can manufacture electric drills cheap enough to sell them for really cheap.  Even if it only produced 1/1,000,000 of the power needed for a city for an hour, imagine once everyone in the city has taken a shower for the day?  A free hour of electricity for a city would be awfully impacting.

[MountainDon]

It would appear to me that the basic premise would be correct. The water flowing through the turbine would have its flow restricted while the water does that work. So that reduction in flow could be made to approximate what a low flow shower head does.

As the water flow increases or slows the output will vary. You'd need to regulate that output. Where does the output go? Into batteries or into the power grid. Batteries make for a complication most folks don't want to deal with or can't deal with. The grid requires both the voltage and the frequency to be tightly regulated. It could all be done I'm sure but at what cost for what benefit? That is the point where many plans fall down.