CountryPlans Forum

Major Media article - Reply to Seattle PI Editorial..

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/284273_conspire08.html?source=mypi

Tnd then we can try to figure out if a large airliner actually hit the pentagon.   :-/  Those picture have always looked a bit odd to me.

I'm going with the guys who say it didn't -- Parts didn't match the supposed plane they claimed hit it -- hole was too small - no major lawn damage - no plane -- ex-military witnesses said it was a missle --later released portions of videos were just as indefinite as the first released information, government confiscated all videos and won't release any that clearly show what went on-- it made a near impossible turn more like a missle- to hit a mostly unoccupied newly remodeled area.  The alledged pilot couldn't even fly a small plane -- no way he made that steep descending turn.  Unless you believe the government fairy tale. :-/  This is off the top of my head -- I can find the documentation if desired.

What I Want You to Know About 9/11 (http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd213.htm)

Excellent, well documented article - lots of references & links

QuoteTnd then we can try to figure out if a large airliner actually hit the pentagon.   :-/  Those picture have always looked a bit odd to me.

A friend , well officer I served with in VAQ-141 was in the pentagon on 9/11 as the  going to be off going duty officer. He is and was then a naval aviator , he did not dispute any claim made by the news media. A jet liner did the damage , he saw the wreckage , pulled out people from the building etc etc .

Think what you want , it is a free country.  This huge vast conspiracy your putting forth would have to include him and hundreds of other eye witness's accounts , never knew the Lt. to lie , but hey anythings possible .

I heard today that  OBL, JFK, Jack Ruby , Elvis , RFK, the "Real" Saddam H. , and the easter bunny where all seen at GWB's ranch in Crawford , Tx. I even read it , and now so have you, so it must be true , cuz I never have been known to tell a fib either ;)

G/L , PEG

BTW parts of this message are true , see if you can figger out which parts . Your computer will self dectruct in 30 seconds . Prompt music for Mission impossible now , now , now  ;D  

I'm not disputing that something hit the Pentagon but most of anything big like a 757 did not appear to be there and other military people were not sure it was a 757.  FAA flight controllers thought it was a military aircraft.  Seems there was a lot of confusion by a lot of pro's about what it really was.  

Since they won't release the videos to prove themselves correct it is only logical to assume that there is something else there that they do not want us to see.  There is no reason other than that, that would keep them from proving themselves correct.

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/temoins_en.htm

Check out the questions here and find the videos to prove there was a 757.  That's the official story - not disputing that there was something.

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

 Watch the vidio the whole thing it is a rendtion but has photo's from the site , you still won't believe it I know but at least watch it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8


It takes about a minute to load , pretty neat even if it is made up by the govt. to cover up attacking it's own buildings , ya I know it's all part of a big plan . ::)

Thanks PEG -- I'll check it out.

I viewed the presentation, PEG.

What I really like to do in a case of something like this is to review a lot of the comments people make so I am not relying on my own judgment. It's hard to get enough information on my own and form an opinion. The people who comment have been studying the same issues so in reviewing the comments from this video, I see that about 75% of the posters do not buy the government explanation, one said that one FBI agent had 85 confiscated video's and that there were about 10 video cameras on the Pentagon building.  Unverified as you will agree, but still a good feel for what is going on.

Many commented that if the video's were released clearly showing the government story was true it would end the conspiracy theories.  That isn't happening -- that is the only real fact we have to go on.  If you can get me a credible real video showing the real plane, I would have to believe it of course --- I'm open to it. :)

Is it [highlight]possible [/highlight]as it was sort of a surprise that [highlight]no [/highlight]vidio (other than that grainy survallance camera )was taken at all and those tales of someone havig been at the site , standing around witha camera , with it on , loaded , on / in the right location etc etc ,


Case in point the dude who just confessed to killing JBRamsey , some people will say anything to get on TV /internet / newspaper etc etc .

Like I said Lt., now Commander Slice's(sp) can't remember the exact spelling so don't look up the name  ::) being there and his way of discribing the site / actions of the day , with no question that it was a A/C/ airliner that hit it .  

Do you know someone personally that was in the pentagon on 9/11?

No, I don't PEG and not questioning your friends honesty either.  

I'm only questioning the story for the same reason the others are and stories I have read from other witnesses who made statements that they were ex-military and the sound wasn't that of a 757.  One ex-military type said he was sure it was a cruise missle and the FAA controllers said the radar was that of a smaller military type jet -- going from published reports of course.  

All the published pictures show very little in the way of wreckage and some of it has reportedly been identified as being something other than 757 parts.  I didn't see much of anything big enough in the pictures that could be identified as large plane parts.  Only going from what they feed us and they are not feeding us enough to take the heat off of them.  Why won't they prove themselves to be telling the truth?

Recently the gov. released more video to answer the question and take the heat off of them, however that video was just as bad as the first pictures and did more to make it look like they are hiding something.

Obviously your friend rescued people from something -- the question is --exactly what?

Evidence supplied is insufficient for us to know for sure.  It doesn't have to be.  Keeping it hidden has nothing to do with national security.  There is nothinig it could hurt at this stage except the government story.

Phalynx, once again we are stuck relying on reports they provide us and as you know-- even if we did want to physically do a hands on investigation and had the money to do so, we would be jailed for trespassing, kept from classified material, not shown anything that would prove that their story is false  --or true.  If the stories they feed us were credible and true, there would be no questions left unanswered.  You don't have to leave things hanging and make up lies to cover up the truth.  It speaks for itself.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Critics of 9/11 Commission Report

More interesting links - facts -questions

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/06/09/25/ward.htm

Please, check out the links before you pass it off as crazy.

http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php

Eyewitness accounts -- survivors stories.  If you only listen to mainstream media you haven't heard these.  Check them out if you care to know the truth.

Surviving Explosions (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/06/08/21/ward.htm)

glenn

We both know that they are all lying...Just some left wing paranoid conspiracy against the man God has chosen to rule the world; George Bush ;)

Funny -- that's what the guy who wrote the article said they would say. :-/ :)

great minds think alike my friend ;)

Tenet told 9/11 panel that he warned Rice of Al Qaeda
October 3, 2006, Boston Globe/Washington Post

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/10/03/tenet_told_911_panel_that_he_warned_rice_of_al_qaeda/

Former CIA director George Tenet told the 9/11 Commission that he had warned of an imminent threat from Al Qaeda in a July 2001 meeting with Condoleezza Rice, adding that he believed Rice took the warning seriously, according to a transcript of the interview and the recollection of a commissioner who was there. The meeting has become the focus of a fierce and often confusing round of finger-pointing involving Rice, the White House, and the 9/11 Commission, all of whom dispatched staffers to the National Archives and other locations yesterday in attempts to sort out what had occurred. Members of the commission, an independent bipartisan panel created by Congress to investigate the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, have said for days that they were not told about the July 10 meeting and were angry at being left out. As recently as yesterday afternoon, both commission chairman Thomas H. Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton said they believed the panel had not been told about the July 10 meeting. But it turns out that the panel was, in fact, told about the meeting, according to the interview transcript and Democratic commission member Richard Ben-Veniste, who sat in on the interview with Tenet. Rice added to the confusion yesterday by strongly suggesting that the meeting may never have occurred at all, even though administration officials had conceded for several days that it had.

Note: Could it be possible that some of our nation's top leaders are lying? How could they have just forgotten about such important matters? For lots more see http://www.WantToKnow.info/911information.

Until I saw this series of videos last week on Cryptogon.com:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143212690219513043&hl=en-CA, I was beyond skeptical of the controlled demolision theory.  But...there are waaaay too many unanswered questions out there.  The "squib" explosions are what really stick in my mind.  I wasn't always so cynical, I just don't put anything past the neocon elites anymore.  Something like this would be horrible beyond anything we've seen from them, and I hope it's just conspiracy theory fodder.  

Great to hear that you are at least checking things out and finding more unanswered questions, Peak Engineer.  

Planes don't make squibs.  The official story is like the McGuyver TV series.  A few things are believable, but anyone who knows anything about building construction, demolition, or is a pilot cannot buy the whole thing.  Just as McGuyver made things miraculously work, many of them were impossible.  The uninformed believed he was a genius but people who knew what he was trying to pull off knew many of the things he did were not possible the way he did them.

If the fires were so hot in the trade center, someone needs to explain away the lady who was standing in the hole waving a white cloth or object to attract attention for help.

QuoteUntil I saw this series of videos last week on Cryptogon.com:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143212690219513043&hl=en-CA, I was beyond skeptical of the controlled demolision theory.  But...there are waaaay too many unanswered questions out there.  The "squib" explosions are what really stick in my mind.  I wasn't always so cynical, I just don't put anything past the neocon elites anymore.  Something like this would be horrible beyond anything we've seen from them, and I hope it's just conspiracy theory fodder.  

The words "conspiracy theory" are the way they explain away the truth.  They are the ones putting forth the conspiracy theory.

When this first happened I was spewing my lines to a few people after an independant  movie here in town.  After about a half hour with no lightning coming down from the heavens, a fellow spoke up.  He said he was in airline security and he just couldn't believe they went this far -- sacrificing citizens -- to forward their cause.  Point being he was an insider and he knew they did it.  I also spoke to an FAA writer --she also believed they did it-- some of her writing topics were censored-- she was told what she could or couldn't say in regards to some of this.

If you can read this website and not know the truth then you really have to be in denial.  It may not give you the who's but it will give you the hows.

http://911proof.com/11.html

More info links -

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/
Current News from Educate-yourself.org

Thank you Glenn, Sassy and others...

As you know, I have been unwilling to get too deep into what I emotionally consider a distasteful conspiracy theory. This has been going on here for months and I have not read the threads links until now. (And I've certainly not read them all yet.)

I realize it is time for me to give some of the arguments a bit of study. You have helped by making that information available here.

This was one of the best videos I've seen.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143212690219513043&hl=en-CA

Disturbing, deeply, deeply disturbing... is all I have to say.
To quote PeakEngineer: "I hope it's just conspiracy theory fodder." hope, hope...

To consider the alternative is to define a network of internal terrorists far larger and more inhumane than any band of suicidal religious fanatics could hope to be. If such an attack was staged, and the towers were imploded with coordinated explosions, then there would have been hundreds of people with knowledge and involvement of the considerable work that was done to bring this off. Not all of those people will be able to stay silent and carry such horrific guilt with them to their graves. Where is our Deep Throat?

I realize that emotionally I don't want to think this was an "inside job" because to do so means that our experiment in democracy is fatally flawed and I have misplaced my trust in the processes of American government. This is my emotional bias and I need to acknowledge this.

To give up this trust there needs to be clear and solid proof. Our trust of democratic civilized government is not something to be lightly thrown off for a new theory no matter how convincing.

The guilty will need to come forward, or be forced to come forward. [highlight]If it was a conspiracy they will talk[/highlight]. To me, that is when I will have to face my emotions and my fears. Then I will stand up and demand the changes needed to rectify the evil.

If nobody talks, then it didn't happen - no matter how good a story you can tell about how it might have happened. Bottom line it is that simple.

I base that assertion on an even deeper faith than my faith in democracy - and that is my faith in human nature. I believe that most people, most of the time will not consider it right to take the lives of their friends and neighbors no matter what a superior might order them to do.

It takes a great deal of training in military schools to overcome the natural altruistic instinct in a soldier. That is why so much effort is taken by media and the government to dehumanize the enemy.

Who was the enemy we were bombing the twin towers to vanquish? What is my motivation to do such a thing? I might imagine a greedy, controlling mastermind of uncaring total evil who could press the button. But such an effort needs scores if not hundreds of willing workers to plan, toil and coordinate such a project. Who was the subcontractor? Cheney and Haliburton? Really? They would do this just for the money and power? The military? Who was that enemy again?

[highlight]If nobody talks, then it didn't happen. [/highlight]This is true because if it did happen somebody will have to talk. It's just human nature, and I'll trust that over any government anytime!

If a man goes out into the forest and speaks--- and no woman hears him---- is he still wrong?


My point is, that if no one is listening, they can talk all they want and no one will hear.  They are talking - you have to listen.  There is a conspiracy at play here but it is from our government - not from the ones they are calling conspiracy theorists.  

We consider our Countryplans friends as family and happily post information at the risk of being called crazy (actually I don't mind that at all) so that if they read their eyes will be opened to the truth also.  Blindly closing your eyes and hiding from it will not even get you started on the path to a solution.

Open your eyes and your mind - look at the evidence- listen to the other side of the story.  You have only been listening to the official story and all other stories have been branded as conspiracy theories.  There is a long history of government deception in the past for them to get what they want.  You are right - for the most part man wants to do the best for his friends and neighbors.  The higher ups didn't get there because they care about whether the peons live or die.  They don't.  Money and power - that is all they care about.

Check out the firefighters - study up - open your eyes - look at the evidence - reject the absurd - add the explained and believable to your knowledge base.  Soon your eyes will open and you too will be able to see what is happening.  If you are afraid to look and don't look and buy the stories fed to you by the government controlled mainstream monopoly press, you are doomed to live in fear of something you cannot understand.  You will never understand if you don't know what they are up to.  

PNAC
Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz signed a Statement of Principles of the PNAC on June 3, 1997, along with many of the other current members of Bush's "war cabinet."


http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_24_02/America_Pearl_Harbored/america_pearl_harbored.html

QuoteThe 90-page PNAC document from September 2000 says: "The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."

"Even should Saddam pass from the scene," the plan says U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will remain, despite domestic opposition in the Gulf states to the permanent stationing of U.S. troops. Iran, it says, "may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests as Iraq has."

A "core mission" for the transformed U.S. military is to "fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars," according to the PNAC.

The strategic "transformation" of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination would require a huge increase in defense spending to "a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually," the PNAC plan said.

"[highlight]The process of transformation," the plan said, "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor[/highlight]."

American Free Press asked Christopher Maletz, assistant director of the PNAC about what was meant by the need for "a new Pearl Harbor."

"They needed more money to up the defense budget for raises, new arms, and future capabilities," Maletz said. "Without some disaster or catastrophic event" neither the politicians nor the military would have approved, Maletz said.

The "new Pearl Harbor," in the form of the terror attacks of Sept. 11, provided the necessary catalyst to put the global war plan into effect. Congress quickly allocated $40 billion to fund the "war on terrorism" shortly after 9-11.

Read up a bit -- keep the good stuff - throw out the crap --

Your faith in mankind is great.  The people in power are only a small percentage of mankind - less than 1 %.  That is all it takes.  Note that as you study you will find that most of the people involved in 9-11 were innocent bystanders.  Most were not in on the joke.  All it took was the right people in the right places doing the right things.  A Bush (brother Marvin)  related company was in charge of security at both airports and the WTC.  Jeb declared martial law in Fla. 4 days before it happened.

http://www.rense.com/general14/jebdeclared.htm

Nobody wants to see-- that is why they won't see -- they are afraid to confront the truth and would rather hide behind the belief that man could not do anything so bad to their fellow man.  You can step out of fantasy land now --- this is the real world.  Open your eyes and see.  :-/

The enemy does not need to be defined -- we bought a war on terror.

They have given us our new Pearl Harbor.  They gave us 9-11

 Secrecy Surrounds a Bush Brothers Role in 911 (http://yourchristianpresident.com/Assets/The%20Bush%20Family/BushBrothers/Marvin%20Bush.htm)

Glenn and Sassy:

I hope you understand that I don't think you are crazy and I'm very glad you are pointing us to important information you find available. I don't think I am closing my eyes or hiding from the "truth" here. I am trying to lay down a test of sorts. Certainly just because there are convincing theories or alternative realities to the "official story" doesn't mean they are true, does it?

Hitler had a convincing theory about the Jews in Europe in the 1930's - a lot of people believed that theory and were able to produce convincing evidence to support it. That didn't make it true. The truth did come out, of course and the deception was clearly admitted to by many of those who participated in it.

Of course, there are Holocaust deniers who still say it didn't happen, but there is a huge body of documented history that they also must deny and most intelligent people trust the history more than the "alternative reality theory".

My test is similar - that the people who have done this (the engineering of the staged 9-11 attack) cannot stay forever silent. They will be forced by their human nature to confess and come out of the closet.

That has not yet happened. And I believe it must if such a thing did in fact happen.

Until that admission starts to happen I will not invest my limited emotional energy in "possible alternative realities". I have done enough personal experimentation in my youth to know how easily convincing alternative realities can be.  8-) I have also learned that I have an emotional inclination to want to believe exciting apocalyptic theories. They are much more attractive than the boring day to day frustrations of the "work-a-day reality". But excitement doesn't equal truth.

[highlight]People are certainly willing to listen.[/highlight] It would be exceedingly easy for one of the people who placed the charges in the twin towers to come forward on the Internet with a confession and traceable information on brands of materials, suppliers, and other evidence. They could do this anonymously, like "Deep Throat" did in the 1970's. It is far easier to come out of the closet today than it was in the Nixon era.

I think the perpetrators of the plot are perfectly capable of taking the how's to their grave with them.  They have no conscience.

A duck doesn't ever tell you it is a duck, but the evidence that it is a duck is overwhelming.

One piece at a time the 9/11 evidence builds up.  The whos, or whys don't have to be there.  The hows are there.  The official story is a physical impossibility.  Something else had to happen.  Buying the official story won't give you the answers.  I knew it wasn't true the day it happened.  I am a pilot.  The manuevers pulled on that day were impossible for student pilots or pilots with little skill.  The deviations from flight plan without military interception were impossible without assistance from the inside.  I have been intercepted in the middle of nowhere when I strayed just a little bit close to a restricted area.  Standard operating procedures of ATC would have prevented the entire operation if they were allowed to proceed as normal.

Check out the cutting charges. http://www.rense.com/general63/cutt.htm

Pictures of columns that were cut in the core - typical of thermite cutting - takes seconds.

(http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/april2006/240406thermite1.jpg)

Check out the stories of molten metal.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm

Please look and attempt to prove that these facts are incorrect.  If you can show that to me, I might even buy the official story.  I don't have all the answers, but I do have the questions that need answers. :)

John, I understand your reluctance to believe that our gov't could have had anything to do with 911 - believe me, Glenn & I had some lively debates when he first started reading me articles that questioned the official story.  So, of course, I set out to prove him wrong...  ;) ;D... unfortunately, the more I researched, the harder it was to not question the official story.  I still read articles on both sides - one of the sites I read is World Net Daily - they are still, on the whole, very pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war, even supporting bombing Iran - & this is mostly a "Christian" website - to me, I am dismayed - I listen to Christian radio & there are some talk shows that totally support the "official story" & won't even give airtime to those who call in & question...  but I also read other sites that are "Christian" also have lots of questions that the gov't is refusing to answer.

Why won't they answer?  I have the 911 Commission report - on page 396 or something they have written about the plans in 1997 to go into Iraq so that we could control the gov't, topple Saddam Hussein & get control of the oil, a pipeline through Afganistan etc - they have the pipeline through Afganistan now... ya gotta "follow the money, follow the power" - if you've ever seen the movie "The Corporation" you see that it is considered an "individual" which in some ways places it out of reach of a lot of the repercussions of their actions - the bottom line is "making money".  If profit is the ultimate goal - there are no morals to that - by law, the corporation must do everything possible to make money for it's shareholders ie Enron, lots of S&L's, banks.  Everytime a bank or S&L fails due to poor, risky investments trying to make profits, the good 'ole gov't - ie US taxpayer picks up the bill - that is one of the ways that the World Bank can finance all the risky investments around the world - they loan money to the gov't - oftentimes the common citizen never sees any benefit, but the global industries get their share - when things don't pan out & the venture fails, the World Bank still gets their money, who foots the bill?  Guess again - the good 'ole US taxpayer along with other countries who also tax their citizens to provide funding for the World Bank (WB).  There is no incentive to be cautious - the riskier, the better, because oftentimes the speculation will make lots of money - but the WB bankrupts the countries it is supposedly helping by charging so much interest - the banks want the interest - that is income, so they keep rolling over the debt, until it breaks the back of the usually 3rd world country & the global "elites" can buy out the infrastructure & gain control.  

Our Federal Reserve is a perfect example...  :-/  It is a private central bank printing up money "out of thin air" to loan to the gov't at a certain interest rate... the Federal Reserve, who originally printed the money without any backing, considers the loan to be an "asset" even though the money it loans is purely "fiat" - that's the way banks operate now throughout the world.  We don't even have "fractional" banking anymore - debt is considered assets...  :o  The Federal Reserve has never been audited since it begun in 1913 - the same year that the Internal Revenue Service came into being - & get this, your taxes don't go to pay for the infrastructure of our country - it goes to pay the Federal Reserve debt!!!  Watch Aaron Russo's movie From Freedom to Fascism - its on Google, so is Terror Storm by Alex Jones.  

Remember that Donald Rumsfield announced that the Pentagon could not account for $2.3  billion on 9/10/2001!  This happens every year to the tune of at least a trillion $$$ or more - if you look at the records of the GAO - you can see this documented.

Here is a link I previously posted about high gov't officials - lots are military officers, who question the official story.   http://patriotsquestion911.com/  I also posted a link to a video that shows the 911 families before the 911 Commission & also speaking on their own -  What I Want You to Know About 9/11 - there are lots of links to various articles & videos.  I posted the link on page one of this topic.  

I agree, that it is hard to imagine that humankind can slump so low - but in a world without a "bottom line" without "truth" - all is relative, to each his own, you make your own reality, decide what to believe, what is right & wrong in your own mind.  If you've ever seen a 2 yr old throw a tantrum because he didn't get his own way, you understand that man is totally self-centered right from the start - some will say "survival of the fittest" but then that brings up a whole other can of worms & also debunks the idea that man is basically "good" - so what is it?  Read about Margaret Sanger (the founder of Planned Parenthood) & the original goals of her group -- euthanasia--getting rid of the less desireables.  Read the now unclassified records of Operation Northwoods that President John F Kennedy nixed - he also had plans to put us on the gold standard - within a couple months, he was dead!  

I probably sound totally jaded with the world - but I'm not - I have a hope that the world cannot destroy - that's what puts joy in my heart & direction in my life.   :)  That's what keeps me searching for the truth, no matter how ugly it may be.  This world is so beautiful, so complex, man is wonderfully made, everything rests on such  an intricate balance.  Sassy

Does anyone know of a follow-up interview with a professional building demolition firm about what it would take to bring down the twin towers to match the speed at which they came down? Such a study would seem obvious to me as it would shed a great deal of light on the truth or falsehood of the theory.

I would really like to know... who would you call to do such a job. Have them do a bid. How many people would be involved, what types of explosives, where would they be placed, how would you keep it secret from the building occupants, etc.

Put a professional team on the project and see what they come up with. I expect it would be a more expensive and complex job than the mere flying of planes into the sides of the towers.

John wrote:

QuoteDoes anyone know of a follow-up interview with a professional building demolition firm about what it would take to bring down the twin towers to match the speed at which they came down?
.........

I expect it would be a more expensive and complex job than the mere flying of planes into the sides of the towers.

In a way that's kind of apples and oranges.  Getting it just right--just once--without planning might be quite different from being able to successfully predict what's going to happen.  Let alone replicate it.  Forensic engineering is a bit different.  If there is such a phrase.

I've got a book--somewhere-- that seems pretty convincing to a non-engineer about the structural properties of the building, how it would fall, and how the patterns there look much more like a take-down instead of a blow from outside.

At the very least there was collusion...how did the passports survive?  Why did the towers implode?  Why did a building not involved implode?  Why was all of NORAD on a training mission that day?  Why were the Air Traffic Controller's tapes confiscated?  Where are the black boxes?  Why did some of the 19 show up alive in Europe?  How did they have all 19 names almost immediately?

It helps if they have an inside team so they are coached properly.  They used the same people thay used on the Murrah building for a lot of the reporting etc.  Same cleanup crew to get rid of the evidence I believe.

QuoteThe contractor who is reported to have been the first on the WTC collapse scene to cart away the rubble that remains is a company that specializes in the scientific demolition of large buildings, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Baltimore, headed by Mark Loizeaux.

CDI is the same contractor that demolished and hauled away the shell of the bombed Oklahoma City Murrah building, actions that prevented independent investigators from pursuing evidence on leads suggesting that there were bombs set off inside the building.

In February 2000, a federal grand jury indicted Mark Loizeaux, Douglas Loizeaux and Controlled Demolition, Inc. on charges of falsely reporting campaign contributions by asking family members and CDI employees to donate to the campaign of Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.).

The Baltimore Sun reported that the illegal contributions allegedly occurred between 1996 and 1998. The Loizeaux brothers and CDI were acquitted in Sept ember 2000. Cleaning up the estimated 1.2 million tons of rubble will reportedly cost $7 billion and take up to a year.

Kevin Ryan worked for a division of Underwriters labs.  He told the truth - and lost his job for it if I remember correctly.  He said there was no way the airplane fuel fire was hot enough to cause problems.

http://www.911review.com/coverup/wtcinquiry.html

Another expert testified that it was demolition then under threat of losing his funding, suddenly changed his story to match the official one.

I found that story on this site also, but was already aware of it. He is an expert and was obviously leaned on to change the story.

http://www.911review.com/coverup/romero.html

Ten reasons hijackers are fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP-Uh7w-mw8&mode=related&search=

Above professor James Fetzer. http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/

Great to see people with open minds here and still others who want to understand (or are not sure they want to understand).  :-/

Here is another demo expert stating his professional opinion regarding building 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgoSOQ2xrbI&mode=related&search=

Evidence of advanced fusion devices at the WTC
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm

"If we don't keep looking for answers we'll never find the truth."

Thanks, Glenn (and others).

The trouble I am having with all this is a philosophical or spiritual one. In one of your links an author makes a good case for the use of fusion explosives (H-bombs!) in bringing down the towers and pulverizing them so completely. To believe this is true you must also believe that the U.S. Military and Government leaders at the very highest levels were coordinating this.

I ask again, "what is the motivation" for such an enormous effort? What could I hope to gain (assuming I am one of the plotters)?

My philosophical/spiritual problem is that there is no motivation great enough to do this. Neither greed, nor power would be sufficient to motivate any normal American. To claim that all the (hundreds?) of people involved in such an effort are merely mental psychopaths is also unacceptable.

My only conclusion is that if these claims are true, then powerful non-rational "forces of evil" (fill in your own image from your religious framework) are at work here. Destruction on such an enormous scale has to be the classic "battle of the gods" fighting for the souls and spiritual future of humanity. We can easily then throw in the JFK, MLK and John Lennon assassinations as earlier expressions of the power of this evil.

If I accept this (on faith - since that would have to be the platform), then I must also jettison my whole liberal, humanistic, rationalistic framework of reality. And that is a bigger problem involving my trust and hope for humanity.

Such a shift pushes me way beyond my basic distrust of big government and big business yet faith in democracy and entrepreneurial freedom. It would mean I must also buy into the apocalyptic "final days" image of the world that is now motivating religious extremism in many parts of the world. In such a belief structure there is no "middle ground", no "working things out", no "can't we all just get along" - we are in a life and death battle.

To my surprise, I find I would have to share George Bush's black and white view of the "evil doers" and fight to kill as many as possible. Total victory can be the only outcome.

Of course, once I abandon a humanistic viewpoint and join the absolutists or ideologues, it doesn't much matter which side I'm on. I can see Al Qaeda as the devil and GWB as an avenging angel or visa versa. Black can flip to white and the images are the same, one is just a negative of the other.

In order to believe this one gets to buy into our government or the power behind the government as the government of 1984.  

Complete with managed news, perpetual warfare (with unpredictable shifts in the enemy--all previous news edited to make us believe that we have always been at war with this one), with attacks probably from our own government to keep us scared and willing to believe, to participate in the minute (was it a quarter of an hour or ten minutes?) of hate every day, to sort of learn how to work around this, but by doing so, really being a part of the system.

Do we think that government by Haliburton--or some other company or set of companies--would go to these lengths?

Or that some mad person in the government--or just outside of government (e.g., Carlyle or Haliburton)--mostly did this on his (or her) own?

If you think that that person might be the 43d president of the U.S. you might point to the man as a dry drunk, as someone determined to avenge/outshine his father's "failure" in Iraq, not to mention the 2000 election and so on and on and on.  I certainly have acquaintances who believe that the President, acting as President or Commander in Chief, can do no wrong.  Almost in the same way that a priest saying mass is the instrument of God.  The question is are there enough people like that in the mid to upper levels of government to carry this out.

I really do recommend reading 1984.  Or perhaps even better getting it in audio.

I have (although it's loaned out and may never ever come back) it paired with Animal Farm and particularly like the 1984 by Frank Muller.  It seems to be cassette only..

http://www.stjohnfisherforum.org/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=AUD3600

or here--for less.  Although not too long ago I found it at a not-quite local bookstore under their brand name:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1402558228/ref=dp_olp_0/002-4170165-9831267?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Take a look on Google videos for "Bush Family Fortunes" - lots of good info...

also go to this link  Reuters: Unexplained surge in financial transactions just before 911 (http://snapshot.jkn.com/762799.598012991751)

 9/11 Cover-up Two-Page SummaryVerifiable Media Reports on 9/11 (http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11cover-up)

I've got part of what you wanted to see, John.

Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job (//www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/141206trafficcontroller.htm)

QuoteA former Boston Center air traffic controller has gone public on his assertion that 9/11 was an inside job and that Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon tracked three of the four flights from the point of their hijacking to hitting their targets. In an astounding telephone interview, Robin Hordon claims air traffic controllers have been ignored or silenced to protect the true perpetrators of 9/11.

A recording of the phone conversation was posted on Google video late yesterday by the Pilots For 9/11 Truth organization.

He said the same thing that I said because of my flight experience.

QuoteHe highlighted the fact that only an emergency handling of aircraft protocol change on that day could have interrupted standard operating procedure and hijacking protocol. Hordon said it was unbelievable how far American Airlines Flight 11 was allowed to go off course without the appropriate action being taken on behalf of flight controllers.

Quote"Further information indicates later the NORAD radars had it tracked....the bottom line of the story is that all of those aircraft were always tracked all the time by the FAA air traffic control centers," said Hordon, pointing out that information showing air traffic controllers tried insistently to alert military command structures is being locked down because it points to finger of responsibility to Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon, who were also tracking all the aircraft from the point of hijacking to the impact on their targets.

This is the reason why, as Hordon stated, that we don't have complete access to flight data recorders and FAA tapes, which in the case of a conversation between six New York Air Route Traffic Control Center controllers was ordered to be shredded, because if studies of that evidence were undertaken it would become very clear as to who was really behind the attack.

"What they did is they cherry picked transmissions, communications and statements made all on these four flights that were able to paint and write a story that the public would look at and so ooh wow, this really happened - but it wasn't factual, it was a story and it tell not tell anything other than what the high perps wanted the public to hear - they cherry picked this information," said Hordon.

Hordon ended by saying that only with the testimony from the dozens of flight controllers who have been silenced or ignored would the true story about who carried out 9/11 begin to emerge.

Hey, thanks for posting that Glenn:

That's the kind of thing that could start to unravel this (that and a congress with the guts to do a full inquiry  8-))

I've been out of power since yesterday afternoon in the big blow here. Locally there are 1,000,000 utility customers in the dark tonight. 700,000 of them in my electric utility alone - that is some kind of record and they are saying up it could be up to a week before all the folks get hooked back up.  :P

I had to chainsaw my way down the driveway this morning... but no real damage otherwise. I also have my new generator running and even hooked up the Cooperative Design International Headquarters and have the computer and DSL running. Even got [highlight]plan orders [/highlight]out today!! ::)

More later. I smell like gasoline. Everyone is suggesting it might be time for a shower. Wait, that hot water heater is electric.  :-?

Sorry , John -- I don't understand power outages-- I'm off grid.   :)

Good job on getting your stuff up and running.  After that invigorating cold shower you may have to chase Miriam around the house to get your temperature back up to normal. :-/

(Actually I'm kicking my batteries up a bit with the generator for the party tomorrow, but still not out of power.)

Heat hot water on some kind of propane (NG) heater, from there to a 5-gallon bucket, start with pouring water on you from a bowl or dipper, rinse at the end by pouring the rest of the bucket over your head.

That's the shower I have down at the barn.

;)

That's why I don't shower there very often.

Up and running again this morning. Still making our own electrons.

Yea, we're kinda electrical wimps out here - stove and hot water heater are electric. Thanks for the shower tip Amanda.

Glenn has turned off-grid into a gentlemanly lifestyle whereas here everyone is pretending they're living on the frontier. :D

Checked on several neighbors and am slowly filling up my freezer with packages I don't recognize. Going to get another generator going today for an older couple with health issues.

The next thing is to find a gas station that can pump gas. Most are shut down.

Most of the gas stations receive fuel by gravity--from the truck.

If you can open their incoming fuel stopper, you could bring it out with a long-handled dipper--about a cup at a time!

May you--and the whole island--come back on-grid power soon!

Information starts to leak on the Murrah building - as I stated before - McVeigh was a scapegoat likely assisting in a gov elite/NWO scheme.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5271117

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/220207fbiagent.htm

A runner up the the fine .gov showmanship displayed in the WTC demolition on 9/11

Note that I base my statement on the fact that criminals are generally more honest than politicians. :)

I always figured that was--or could be--why prosecutors were so anxious for him to get the death penalty.

More showing up on that one every week it seems.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMBvX3P8IjE

Attorney: Sealed Documents Indicate OKC Inside Job
FBI, defense team files identify government informants directing McVeigh

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/230207insidejob.htm

Video expose of the CIA, drugs, the war on terror, 9/11 by Michael Ruppert, former LAPD officer -later PNW resident.  I have read his stuff for years.  His girlfriend was CIA unknown to him as I recall - he wouldn't go crooked and started the fight with them.

He has been shot at, threatened with death - had his Ashland, Oregon offices and computers destroyed and is now trying to drop his fight like a hot potato, swearing he will never do investigative journalism again.  He went to Venezuela trying to get away from them (the spooks) but while there he somehow managed to end up very near death - a possible victim of poisoning.  You can run but you can't hide.  He is currently in Canada penniless and recovering.  Currently trying to archive his work for others to build on.

It is a shame what happens to people who try to bring out the truth.  The very reason why info on the truth about 9/11 is so hard to find and when someone manages to get part of it out they are either killed or regarded as kooks.

Here is a link to his video.  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&hl=en  You can download the Google video -full of info and copies of actual documents are presented -not super quality video-wise but very informative - From his University of Portland Seminar.

Hopefully some will take the time to view the work he feels strong enough about to die for.

Here is his dying website.  http://www.copvcia.com/index.html
COPVCIA

and here - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/  Read the legal notice and message from him on the second site to see where he is at now.  They are in the process of taking him out.

...or simply close your eyes , look the other way and pretend it isn't happening.  God Bless America.(https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/lsubrian/usflag.gif)

If you tend to think that God wants peace and justice for all, you might want God to Bless America!

But would Rush Limbaugh be happy with the idea?

I think I may have been being a bit sarcastic there, Amanda. :-?  Rush can be happy with nearly anything if he gets the right prescriptions. :)

Seems if religious people go to Iraq and bomb and shoot other religious people in Iraq indiscriminately as is being done - I am speaking of the same generic religion - not necessarily including Muslims, -- they are bound to get some of their own --- they pray to the same God --   Which one is God going to side with -- the one who needs the oil and power worse? or the one it is being taken from.  I guess they won't worry about it now and just do the best they can when He sorts it out in the future if He cares.  It is estimated that over 600,000 (old figure from memory) innocent citizens, men, women and children, have been killed by our meddling and sanctions.  

My flag waving God Bless America was a mockery of the unthinking masses who believe we have a noble cause.  'Scuse me while I run out and fill up the SUV.  Yeah - We have one, and I have trucks and equipment -- but I was always more into business negotiations than killing innocent people to get what I want.

The point is that business negotiations don't put massive amounts of money into the pockets of the elite.  Business negotiations don't strengthen the war machine and corporate profits like a good killing war does.  Business negotiations don't keep the oil and power away from India, China and Russia who will be competing for the same oil and power we want, and once that is gone then we will have to use up ours.  Keeping the masses scared and uninformed or falsely informed is necessary to keep support for this illegal war.  God Bless America.  Now -- where did my flag go?  I feel like waving it now so I can make myself feel real good. :)

Funny ?  little video explains part of what I'm talking about.  http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=jox3871zdd

I might should have put a smiley in what I typed too--but I didn't know which one.  :-/

(it may be easier to get people to nod their heads if the example you give is the prayer in the locker room before a football game, which I've always assumed would go something like "help us beat the pants off of Overton High School."  The prayers in the pep rallies when I was in high school came close)

Somebody sent me this this morning--may or may not be totally true, but unfortunately some of it sounds plausible:

http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Faulty_Chips_US_Military.htm

QuoteHave "designed-to-fail" microchips set up the United States naval, air and ground units in the Persian Gulf for a disastrous defeat in Bush's looming showdown with Iran? Has a Wal-Mart mentality, and corporate sleight-of-hand fatally undermined the U.S. war machine with microscopic flaws?

Following this website's revelations of Israel's recent abortive nuclear air strike on Iran, agents of the United States military intelligence community have returned to visit my informant to disclose disturbing developments.

Hmm.  Will Thomas is also looking into radioactive hurricanes.

Which sound pretty unbelievable unless you've read Sarah Andrews' Killer Dust, featuring dust storms from Africa carrying who-knows-what-all.  Since she's pretty straight on her geology, I assume that this is possible.  After all one bird book tells me that cattle egrets probably blew across the Atlantic from Africa to South America in the not too distant past.

It also looks like there are some ideas that nuking the eye of an already formed hurricane might disintegrate it--or send a truly deadly storm on its way to us.

With Thomas, unless you are subscribed, it's hard to find his articles--maybe you even can't.  Some of what I put here was from just reading the bits on a search.

I was pretty sure you were on the same page with me Amanda.  I guess we can just sit here and type back and forth to each other.  Hopefully we will enlighten those who care to look in and aren't afraid to peek. :)

Wonderful article, Amanda.  Paybacks a B----.

Our corporations and jobs have gone across the seas for cheap parts and labor, while a large part of our people flounder around on minimum wage barely able to survive.  All of the sudden the Chinese have absolute emergency control of our military, our tech and our security with no way to fix it.  Our tech corporations and our elite bite themselves, our security and our military in the a$$.  The greed is finally coming back to roost.  Note that the Russian planes rely more on mechanical devices etc. old tech, and aren't susceptible to these problems (I've read).

Is it really true?  It looks like a duck --It walks like a duck -- It quacks like a duck....

Watch the demolition charges going off on the WTC just as the firefighters stated.

(https://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/th_911ListentotheDemoli.jpg) (https://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/glennkangiser/?action=view&current=911ListentotheDemoli.flv)

http://www.ricksiegel.com/web/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=120

Being a pilot who has been intercepted before in turbulence, I have stated this dozens of times to people but now there is a former air traffic controller saying the same thing as I am.

9/11 was assisted by our government.  There is absolutely no way any plane got to fly around the WTC and Pentagram (gon) without assistance from our government elite.  The good government employees wanting to do their jobs and stop the attacks were prevented from doing so by their superiors who, if you go high enough , were in on the deal.  All they needed to do was give orders to their subordinates, who are trained to follow orders under no uncertain terms.

The bell rings --- you must salivate.

http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

9/11 Truth Movement: Only Growing Stronger – And the Media are Frightened to Death!

http://tvnewslies.org/blog/?p=593

For a while I kept running into ex-PATCO guys.  One was pretty scary--occasionally (during the Reagan administration) wore his "Give PATCO and Hinkley another chance" t-shirt into bars looking for a fight.

The other was reasonably happy to settle down and make bells for a living.  I have a handful of them.

Selfishly and personally 911 put me out of buissness making furniture and small wooden boats.I will return to this full time in the next year.It took and is taking lives but affected us all in some way

QuoteSelfishly and personally 911 put me out of buissness making furniture and small wooden boats.I will return to this full time in the next year.It took and is taking lives but affected us all in some way

Leo where did you do this business?? I guessing clientle lost jobs / where effected so their income to buy these items was effected???

G/L when you get back up and going. 8-)Sounds like something I'd love to do. :)

I sold gallery's mostly,Nashville Its not what you make compliments wont pay the bills you gotta find deep pockets Im gonna look for up scale flea markets in deep pockets territory.Dont let rejection deter you over time a 50/50 batting average evolved.even along the road to a deep pocket event.word of mouth and repeat made up over 20% dont do consignment. Its not what you build its who sees it Im 55 now and jobs will become harder so bye bye lay off INC.the small copper fish got 1/2 retail 12.50 i could do four a hour and get 108 out of a sheet of copper 3x8.most tables metal wit wood top 6 hours got 75 each the Canoe 2000 had to build the mold chase materials make the paddle with my youngest son in a back pack right at four weeks. when the cabin is done the shop is next.

Leo, do you do any of the three big crafts fairs in Nashville?  Two TACA (Tennessee Association of Crafts Artists) one sponsored by the American Artisan gallery.  Might not be great for big stuff, and at last report Nancy
Zimmerman hated for her crafts artists to do either of the TACA fairs.  Usually early May, somewhere around Father's Day (American Artisan), and late September (The TACA show open to non-Tennessee residents).

There's another in Williamson county that some friends (stained glass and a few tables) did one year, don't remember how happy they were with their sales--or when it was.  And since I didn't go, I couldn't tell you what it was like, whether people were showing big projects like small boats.

I just go to look and buy, so I'm no expert on what they cost or what the procedure is for entering.  But a few people I've talked to thought that the cost was less than galleries, worth their extra time traveling with all their merchandise, setting up, sitting out in all kinds of weather and making nice with passers-by.  They are the people who enjoy talking to the passers-by.

PBS's Bill Moyers wll be showing a 90 min expose' on the Iraq war http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/21146 Record of Iraq War Lies to Air April 25 on PBS

That Bill Moyers thing is tomorrow.

Friend sent me this this afternoon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com:80/articles/april2007/230407building7.htm

Quote

[size=24]John Kerry: Building 7 Was Deliberately Demolished[/size]

[size=12]Massachusetts Senator's conclusion directly contradicts 9/11 official story, multi-billion dollar insurance lawsuit [/size]

At a recent speaking engagement in Austin Texas, Senator John Kerry responded to a question about WTC Building 7 by concluding that according to his information, the building was brought down as a result of a controlled demolition, directly contradicting the official line that the structure fell as a result of fire and debris damage.

.................

News networks like BBC and CNN were reporting that the building had collapsed before it fell, indicating that the media were being handed a script of events that had yet to even unfold.

Ground zero EMT's, firefighters and police were all told hours in advance to clear a collapse zone for Building 7 as it was going to be "brought down."

Questioned on WTC 7 by members of Austin 9/11 Truth Now at a Book People event in Austin Texas, Kerry responded, "I do know that that wall, I remember, was in danger and I think they made the decision based on the danger that it had in destroying other things, that they did it in a controlled fashion."

................

Kerry is basically saying that the building was intentionally demolished to prevent a random collapse from damaging nearby buildings, but that premise has never been explicitly admitted, with officials clinging to the notion that the collapse was expected but was not aided by means of explosive charges, because to admit to a controlled demolition would be to expose foreknowledge of 9/11 itself.

Whether Kerry is basing his response on inside knowledge or hearsay is largely irrelevant, the fact that a sitting United States Senator is openly contradicting the official 9/11 story as well as a multi-billion dollar insurance lawsuit strikes at the root of the controversy surrounding Building 7.

In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million. This building's collapse alone resulted in a payout of nearly $500 million, based on the contention that it was an accidental event caused by the fall of the twin towers.

Amanda i sold direct to stores south side of Nashville.Im familiar with TACA. the last place to dry up was the south side of Nashville..wholesale You get one half retail,forget consignment.Its deep pockets that will pay for large pieces.hammered copper pieces 20 to 50 would sell.small shows.My first show in WVa 2nd biggest there sold nothing thurrsday,Friday,Saturday took best in show nice but a piece of paper?show was to end at 2 for the home coming game,between 12 and 2 I did 1400$ the alumni=deep pockets. some where between 6 weeks and four years ill move south central KY big boats 86'house boats lots of big boats = deep pockets ,striking distance to Nashville,Lexington,Knoxville.i wanna try upscale flea /antique markets., ive spoken with many who do the show circuits lots of time and expense.eventually word of mouth or comebacks for the oddest items?working for layoff inc Ive started amassing work in various stages of completion.at present metal framed wood top furniture and canoe molds.If i had 5 canoes i could sell them in a month or two..one customer would buy anything red for her store?

QuoteThat Bill Moyers thing is tomorrow.

Friend sent me this this afternoon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com:80/articles/april2007/230407building7.htm

Quote

[size=24]John Kerry: Building 7 Was Deliberately Demolished[/size]

[size=12]Massachusetts Senator's conclusion directly contradicts 9/11 official story, multi-billion dollar insurance lawsuit [/size]

At a recent speaking engagement in Austin Texas, Senator John Kerry responded to a question about WTC Building 7 by concluding that according to his information, the building was brought down as a result of a controlled demolition, directly contradicting the official line that the structure fell as a result of fire and debris damage.

.................

News networks like BBC and CNN were reporting that the building had collapsed before it fell, indicating that the media were being handed a script of events that had yet to even unfold.

Ground zero EMT's, firefighters and police were all told hours in advance to clear a collapse zone for Building 7 as it was going to be "brought down."

Questioned on WTC 7 by members of Austin 9/11 Truth Now at a Book People event in Austin Texas, Kerry responded, "I do know that that wall, I remember, was in danger and I think they made the decision based on the danger that it had in destroying other things, that they did it in a controlled fashion."

................

Kerry is basically saying that the building was intentionally demolished to prevent a random collapse from damaging nearby buildings, but that premise has never been explicitly admitted, with officials clinging to the notion that the collapse was expected but was not aided by means of explosive charges, because to admit to a controlled demolition would be to expose foreknowledge of 9/11 itself.

Whether Kerry is basing his response on inside knowledge or hearsay is largely irrelevant, the fact that a sitting United States Senator is openly contradicting the official 9/11 story as well as a multi-billion dollar insurance lawsuit strikes at the root of the controversy surrounding Building 7.

In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million. This building's collapse alone resulted in a payout of nearly $500 million, based on the contention that it was an accidental event caused by the fall of the twin towers.

Great find there, Amanda.  Slowly a few tell the truth -- messing up the others lies.   :)

See -- I'm starting to look less and less crazy as time goes on. ;D

The pro's get involved.  How about signing up, John. ;D

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!   (http://ae911truth.org/)

New clues - 4 short videos showing mainstream news clip analysis.

http://www.rense.com/general76/sep.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7364619849681669102&hl=en  Pentagon C Ring Hole

There are several good sites up  about the pentagon hoax...Have been for some time now...

The problem is that most do not want to believe anything but the .gov story because they don't want to believe that their .gov would do anything other than have their best interests in mind.  Hey -- dubya said there was an axis of evil didn't he?  Just lied and didn't mention it was in DC.  Over 3000 citizens and over 3000 official military sacrificed to the Military/Political/Industrial Complex.  Most cannot face the fact that 9/11 was assisted by our own insiders.

Well

When you start to look at the scary facts....Like the Saudi's being personally escorted out of America...And some of them were Family to Bin Laden...Authorized by bush!!!

And then we try to justify holding "suspected militants" in Cuba for 4 years without giving them representation, rights...We do not even charge them with anything...We confine them break them down torture them and interrogate them..Breaking every part of the Geneva convention.

Then you look at the towers and how it was physically impossible for the steel to melt... or the hoax at the pentagon...

And all of the errors in the defense system that were made all at the same time to allow the planes to even strike the towers...Or the FBI and CIA reports that indicated that this thing was planned and the reports were buried and not acted upon to stop it before it started...

So yeah they got a lot of inside help on this one...

What really blows me a away is the fact that the dynamite or c-4 whatever they use had to already be in place in tower number 3.... the charges were expertly placed ...Only a handful of people know how to handle and work with those explosives and to set the charges in such a way to minimize risk and lives...Not to mention to let the building come down without smashing into other nearby buildings...

This is not something you do while the building is on fire in 20 minutes.....So the charges were there before the first plane struck the towers.

But yeah...Thousands of Americans have died for a lie...Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have died for the lie as well...

All so bush could have 4 more years to line his pockets

Him and many, many other "elites" and corporations.  Not to mention the power goals of world domination.

Glenn

We have to keep the Rockefellers among the world's wealthiest... come on man

100 Professors Question 9/11 Official Story.  Bound to be among the smartest people in the world--- should we not check it out too? :-?

http://www.wanttoknow.info/070618professorsquestion911

 911 and the British Broadcasting Conspiracy (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1882365905982811133&hl=en)

911 and the British Broadcasting Conspiracy - new documentary by Adrian Connock and David Shayler about the BBC's selective and distorted  ... all » 911 coverage. With particular reference to the Conspiracy Files programme aired on BBC Two on February 18th 2007

Seems Santorum knows things that haven't been made public knowledge yet.

Read the whole story.  http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mac_mcki_070708_red_alert_3a_has_santo.htm

Red Alert: Has Santorum Let the Cat Out of the Bag?

Quote"In an alarming display of fearmongering, former Republican Senator Rick Santorum has suggested that a series of 'unfortunate events,' namely terrorist attacks, will occur within the next year and change American citizen's perception of the war.

"Santorum went on to clearly imply that terror attacks will occur inside America which will alter the body politic and lead to a reversal of the anti-war sentiment now dominating the country." (http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2007/070707changeview.htm )

Ex-Senator Santorum is doing one of two things, or both, in the following article. He is either fear-mongering and/or accidentally letting the cat out of the bag about new BLACK OPS terrorist attacks being planned right now to continue to enable, drive and justify the Neocon/Republican, home-grown Fourth Reich. This is almost inevitable along the pathway of negativity, to continuously reinforce fear and terror with more fear and terror. So be aware, aware, aware that more terrorist (read U.S. State-Sponsored Terror) attacks may be in the works this year and next, not at the hands of Osama bin Laden, who is quite likely dead anyway, but at the hands of our own murderous government. The Fascist elitists are losing control of our minds en masse, so they need to replay the 9/11-Reichstag Fire card all over again.

When 2 insiders start having gut feelings we should listen.  They are planning a big surprise.  This one is a known weasel from way back and has been on inside plans for a couple of decades at least.

QuoteChertoff's Gut: Al-Qaeda Could Strike This Summer
By Luke O'Brien EmailJuly 11, 2007 | 10:52:04 AMCategories: Threats  

Portrait_chertoff Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff, citing a "gut feeling" on Tuesday, told the editorial board of the Chicago Tribune that al-Qaeda could attack the United States this summer. Chertoff based his assessment on a personal hunch, admitting that there was not enough evidence of a pending attack to raise the nation's threat level. Rather, Chertoff had studied terrorist patterns and some undisclosed intel to come up with his determination.

"I believe we are entering a period this summer of increased risk," he said. "Summertime seems to be appealing to them."

Chertoff also took the opportunity to weigh in on the nation's immigration debate, saying that the failure to pass an immigration bill had made the country vulnerable.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4958254.html

...of course he has a gut feeling-- he is likely in on the planning.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Briley/Patrick4.htm

Al-Qaeda is known the world over  (except here) as a CIA created entity. http://educate-yourself.org/cn/alqaedagenenis09jul05.shtml

Why wouldn't they know what is going to happen?-- they pull the strings.

Hopefully enough people will figure them out ahead of time to prevent them from enacting the 9-11 sequel.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6738692477585096197&q=FDNY+guiliani&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

FDNY produced a video on Rudy Guiliani's leadership before, during & after 9/11

Put-to-Call Ratio at Highest in 12 Years -- Fast Money Folks Not Worried

http://www.bestcashcow.com/stocks_-_options_-_mutual_funds/all/dans/puttocall-ratio-at-highest-in-12-years-fast-money-folks-not-worried

Last notable time this happened was before 9/11 when gov insiders seeked to profit off their airline stocks falling, from the events about to happen.  They knew.

Look for them to pull something else and blame it on Al CIAda.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/10025  Richard Gage, AIA, Architect - How The Towers Fell Full Lecture
http://www.911blogger.com/

Also article by Paul Craig Roberts, former Reagon official http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html
One of the most influential political figures in America, the "Father of Reaganomics", who is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service, and assistant secretary of treasury under Ronald Reagan, said that the U.S. government may very well carry out false flag attacks in order to get its way

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/118489654058910.xml&coll=7

DeFazio asks, but he's denied access
Classified info - The congressman wanted to see government plans for after a terror attack

WASHINGTON -- Oregonians called Peter DeFazio's office, worried there was a conspiracy buried in the classified portion of a White House plan for operating the government after a terrorist attack.

As a member of the U.S. House on the Homeland Security Committee, DeFazio, D-Ore., is permitted to enter a secure "bubbleroom" in the Capitol and examine classified material. So he asked the White House to see the secret documents.

As I mentioned earlier - our finest are at it again -- others feel this is true also.

http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/07/chertoff-predicts-simultaneous-lasan.html

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/135541
Similar article - maybe the same but what I like to read are the views of the world - comments from well educated people around the globe.  What do they think of what is going on. :-?

I have felt that this may happen for a long time -- others are now saying the same.

Will Bush Cancel The 2008 Election? (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/31/2874/)

Read the comments afterward to get public opinion about the article.

Don't know if this has already been posted, but...http://youtube.com/watch?v=lsWZHKIg3Cs
       http://youtube.com/watch?v=iY9PqwDIfYw&mode=related&search=

They don't fall unless they need to support an agenda.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/150807_not_collapse.htm

More people are opening their eyes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

Poll reveals 70% now can see the facts of  or question the governments involvement in the destruction of the WTC.  Add your opinion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14727720

http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt/

A very good "power point" slide show, including videos by  Architects & Engineers for 9/11Truth.org

The NY Times had an article the other day, asking "why do we have to commemorate the tragedy of 9/11 every year?"  

The answer is, when the shills in gov't called our leaders tell the truth!

Quotehttp://www.ae911truth.net/ppt/

A very good "power point" slide show, including videos by  Architects & Engineers for 9/11Truth.org

The NY Times had an article the other day, asking "why do we have to commemorate the tragedy of 9/11 every year?"  

The answer is, when the shills in gov't called our leaders tell the truth!

I believe if the Democrats don't go on to bring to light the Bush/Cheney plan to destroy the United States as we know it, there will be 40 or 50 more years of "he said she said garbage" like the years following our last involvment in someone elses civil war.  

It will be a terrible thing to come to the realization that our military was misused and wasted in Iraq because of a corrupt greedy administration, but it would be far better for the future Nation if we can admit the truth and learn from it. If we as a nation would show the world that we will not stand for our leaders lying to us for personal gain.

I believe those who planned/allowed the events of 9/11 should face the music....no matter how up their public office. Treason was once a crime that applied to any citizen.  

I believe they are two arms of the same criminal.  Neither party can be trusted to do the will of the people.  They answer to a higher calling. ::)

QuoteI believe they are two arms of the same criminal.  Neither party can be trusted to do the will of the people.  They answer to a higher calling. ::)

You're right on that, but there's not much choice as things stand today. A third party can't get into the Washington game. A vote for an outsider is wasted. Until there is a MAJOR change in the minds of the majority of citizens, we have to deal with what we have. Congress is more likely to listen because as individuals, they have less power. The President has WAAAY too much power and it seems that office is going to continue to accumulate more and more power until it's a Kingship. Citizens must force their Congressmen to do the job they're given in the Constitution ... to check the power of the President.

As to our government orchestrating 9/11....WWI, the Lusitania was exploded from within as we now know from finding it and investigating it...the "attack" on Pearl Harbor, WWII, was known about at least 6 weeks before it happened and some scholars believe it was no happenstance our navy was ALL in one place at that time.....

When an administration...ANY administration wants a war....we WILL get one.

Willet, I am still an optimist - I will vote for Ron Paul - looking at his record, he has always voted according to the constitution - so if anyone is the real deal, he is.  If people don't vote or vote for the "lessor of 2 evils" then someone like Ron Paul will not make it.

If nothing else, he has stirred up a lot of discussion & debate on what our current politicians are doing to our country.  That is why there is such a huge grassroots following - especially with young people - they want a free country & hopefully will fight for it.

Yes, maybe it is too late, yes, maybe they will try to assassinate Ron Paul - he even admits that... but he loves his country so much that he is willing to take the chance.  

The message of Freedom is strong!  :)

For many years I thought that a "little guy" might have a chance, but I now believe that money talks and bull...well you've heard the rest......The President will be either a Democrat or Republican. I believe as to which candidate it really don't matter much....the party platform is what runs the country. It is true that a crazy person like Bush might come along and side step the party every so often, but as a rule...the National organization of each party sets the pace.

SO....

While I may like Ron Paul, the truth is that he has no way in hades of being elected President. AND no matter who is elected President, the desires of the ruling party will be the focus.....because, that's where the money's coming from.

I will vote Democrat because I believe too much freedom is better than not enough. I believe our tax money should go to social programs in place of company pockets. I believe that every person in America has the right to pick and practice the religion of THEIR choice, not the one that I believe in. I believe a mother has the right to choose life or death with her unborn child. She will answer to God for her choice, BUT it IS her choice and not the states. I believe American youth should be the LEADERS of the world and not the police of the world. I believe in a better America over a better middle east and so on .....

I fear that if the Republican's get more control, the United States as we know it will be a thing of the past and the new NEO-CON EMPIRE will seek to rule the world by whatever means available to them.

There are people like Ron Paul who would bring a gift to government, but the reality is they can never get there.....I've been involved with politics and like I said...money talks and ..........

These are the things I'm concerned about...  we are only living under the guise of freedom - everything is in place to take those freedoms away...  does anyone else see it?

Faith, Culture, Politics
Emergency Meeting Called
By Rev. Rich Lang

"We are in a grave constitutional crisis with a President who seemingly wants to be a king, and a Congress unable and unwilling to oppose him.

This administration is building, plank by plank, the framework for military dictatorship. Already in place is a global governing philosophy that uses the military as muscle for invading other nations for the purpose of social engineering and massive corporate profits.

   * The Defense Authorization Act of 2006 empowers the President to impose martial law in the event of a terrorist incident.
   * The National Defense Authorization Act of 2007 permits the President to command National Guard troops without the consent of state governors.
   * The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive gives the President dictatorial powers in the event of a "catastrophic incident."
   * The Military Commissions Act suspends the writ of habeas corpus.

This short list doesn't include widespread wiretapping of citizens, construction of concentration camps, private armies, an ever-expanding military budget, increased government secrecy, non-cooperation with Congress, and the inevitable bankrupting of domestic budgets. And, now, the latest grab for power has the Executive announcing that "our property" can be seized for dissent against the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

We are in a very grave constitutional crisis, folks. I encourage every one of you to make a noise in the offices of Sens. Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, and your congressional representatives. Silence is the death of democracy.

But I think we also need to begin the process of organizing some form of resistance, protest, and/or strategy for impeachment. Our politicians are fiddling while democracy burns. Feeding from common corporate money sources, they are no longer worthy of our trust. Indeed, they have betrayed us.

For example, almost daily some media figure or political operative drops a hint that our country might be hit again by the terrorists. Ask yourself: In the event of another catastrophic occurrence, can you trust this government to stay true to the idealism of democracy, and the laws of limited checks and balances of power, encoded in the Constitution? Can you trust Congress to represent the people?

I certainly cannot. We are, I repeat, in a grave, surreal even, constitutional crisis. We are dealing with a spirituality of tyranny, an unleashing of ruthless, arrogant power that corrupts all it touches.

It's time to get angry and cast out this unclean spirit from our land. Such a statement can now get me arrested, disappeared, and stripped of all assets. Is this America? Is this the country in which we have been raised? And how long, friend, until you yourself awaken only to discover that there is now a knock on your door?

I call upon all who care to assemble at Trinity United Methodist Church, on Wednesday Aug. 1 at 7 p.m. There we will begin to strategize how to reclaim the power of the people, the birthright we share.
Knock. Knock."  (note this was an announcement for a meeting 8/1 but brings up a lot of pertinent concerns)

All you Washingtonins!
From Rev. Rich Lang;  Hi folks, COME JOIN US ON 9/11 at 11am
WHERE:
Space Needle
400 Broad St
Seattle, WA 98109

FREEDOM FROM FEAR CAMPAIGN - SEATTLE ACTION 9-11-07

Yet another video by a representative of 7000 family members who lost someone on 9/11 questioning the "official" story...

http://www.freepressinternational.com/

tell me again why we are in Iraq?

Thanks for the article and the link, Sassy. Interesting.

I really like Joe Biden,myself.He's a Constitutional scholar, a Statesman, a gentleman and an insider in the workings of Washington....BUT... like Ron, he has no chance of being elected. Not enough money...No hype...and No media attention. Like any "product", advertising is what sells and only those top two or three money holders get the air time.

Your next President will be Edwards or Thompson as it stands now. Neither will be my choice, but the Democrat.... any Democrat at this point, will get my vote.

Yep... for now ... I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat.

So, if everyone thinks like you do, we'll never have change... we might as well just rollover & play dead  :-/
I hate voting for the Republican party, but since Ron Paul is running, I will - I refuse to vote for the "lessor of 2 evils" - I don't see any difference in the democrats or the republicans - they are a divide & conquer distraction.

I guess I could just resign myself & figure it won't matter who wins anyway - that's what Glenn says... & it is probably true, but I will continue to exercise my constitutional right to vote even if the whole thing is rigged.

We're told to "occupy until He comes" & to be "salt & light" - but my ultimate home is not in this fallen world - I will try to do what I can to do a little good, looking towards the hope that has been promised.  :)  At least I can have peace within.

I wonder what others do to find that peace?

Sassy, you mentioned your constitutional right to vote. I'm not picking on you, as this is a common belief. We have the right to vote and we don't.  :-/

The Right to Vote

The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members. [highlight]Note that in all of this, though, the Constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech, for example.[/highlight] This is precisely why so many amendments have been needed over time - the qualifications for voters are left to the states. And as long as the qualifications do not conflict with anything in the Constitution, that right can be withheld. For example, in Texas, persons declared mentally incompetent and felons currently in prison or on probation are denied the right to vote. It is interesting to note that though the 26th Amendment requires that 18-year-olds must be able to vote, states can allow persons younger than 18 to vote, if they chose to.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#vote

Thank you MtnDon, I'm always open for being educated!  :)  I mouth off so much, don't want to be ranting about stuff that's not true  ;)  I'm already accused of being a conspiracy theorist & anti-christ, wouldn't want to be thought of as stupid too  ;D

BTW did you watch any of the video?  How about the one I posted earlier by architects & engineers?  They really bring up a lot of unanswered questions.

Yes Sassy, I did watch the a&e "powerpoint" presentation, at least most of it. I lost interest near the ned when the slides and info on the twin towers began repeating much of the same slides as were used in wtc7.

It did not convince me that there was a conspiracy to demolish the wtc buildings.

One interesting thing is that Jim Hoffman, the expert (appears a couple times, greenish shirt, looks like he's sitting behind a computer monitor) who IS convinced the towers were brought down by demolition charges, at least is NOT a member of the conspiracy camp that believes there was no airplane that hit the Pentagon... that the Pentagon was hit by a missile. So he gained some credibility with me there. But.... I dunno. (this info was not in the presentation... I did some internet research on him.  :)

Which brings up something else. I have an outsized "skeptical bone" when it comes to just about anything, any claims. It takes a lot to prove anything to me. I should have been from Missouri, the "show me state".   :)  The internet especially brings up my screening radar to full power.

One point: re the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC7 20 minutes before it actually fell. The BBC reporter that was seen making the live telecast just happened to be visiting NYC at the time of the attack. She probably wouldn't have known anything about WTC7 even if it fell on her. That would not be the first time a TV reporter made a factual error during a "breaking news" situation.

I find one of life's annoyances are the breaking news interruptions. They seldom have anything to say that couldn't have waited. But that's another rant for another time.

When I was a kid I followed the construction of the towers, it fascinated me. One thing I remember was that Skilling the lead engineer assured all that the towers were built to withstand the impact of the then largest aircraft, the Boeing 707. The designers are also quoted as designing for a slow speed impact, like a plane lost if the fog. What wasn't foreseen was that by 2001 airliners would weigh in at more than 1.75 times the weight of a 707. The planes that hit both WTC towers were 767's and traveling at a high rate of speed. The 767 uses more modern aircraft construction methods that gives more aircraft per pound, has about 2x the range, etc. I don't have the figures but it would seem the 767 carries a lot more fuel than the 707.  So who knows what differences that all makes when the crash is analyzed?

So keep on peppering the forum with your thoughts, views, perspectives, etc. I do look at most.

I do think we should support someone other than that person selected by the 2 major parties, but it will not matter until that 3rd person has lots of BUCKS behind them. IF a third party candidate is to have a chance, they need to raise lots and lots of money.....

Sassy, thta's just reality. I really wish we could just vote a person in, but our vote counts for very little anyway...it's the electorial college that picks the President...not the individual citizen.

And like I tried to say...I believe in the party...not the man. There ARE times when it'simportant to put the individual candidate under the microscope....like say....who they will pick as a Supreme Court Justice...but that don't happen with every President.

If we learn nothing else from the Bush/Cheney dictatorship, we should all see just how much the wrong President can screw up things. BUT even Bush MUST bow to the party....look at the party platforms and find what you like the most.....vote for them, until a third candidate can get enough money to compete in the National Media.

That's part  of why the system is broke.  Money holds to much importance.

It seems that rather than the biggest richest crook running the country a candidate should have some good qualities, values, intelligence, principles, and the ability to network with the rest of the world to the benefit of the common people and business people of the USA.  

At the rate we are going down the tubes now, it won't much matter anyway.

So -- wonder if something good is cooking for the 14th?

http://www.rense.com/general78/isrr.htm

QuoteAIR FORCE TIMES CONFIRMS: ENTIRE U.S. AIR FORCE WILL STAND DOWN THIS FRIDAY!
CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES WILL HAVE ZERO FIGHTER AIRCRAFT TO PROTECT THE NATION

Despite our own CIA Director making a rare public speech claiming Al-Qaida is planning "high-impact attacks against the U.S. Homeland" our Air Force has taken steps to make our entire country vulnerable to such attacks on September 14.

In an order given to all fighter pilots and bomber pilots, the entire U.S. Air Force will "stand down" on Friday September 14. We will have ZERO air defense for the entire country on that day!

and


CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY UNCOVERED IN NUCLEAR "MISTAKE"!
SHIPMENT OF LIVE NUCLEAR WARHEADS FROM NORTH DAKOTA TO LOUISIANA WAS NO MISTAKE
THE LIVE WARHEADS WERE REMOVED FROM THEIR SECURE NUCLEAR STORAGE SAFES AFTER ENTRY AND CONFIRMATION OF PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORIZATION!  (Six shipped -- five arrived.)

my skeptical bone kicked in again....  :-/

no El-Al flights out of NYC on 09/21 & 28, 10/05, 12 found either. All Fridays  ::)

source:   http://travel.airwise.com/schedules/index.html

I don't think that means much,

Dunno about the USAF thing

...wait 'n' see

I like to watch things like this but as you say - probably nothing.  Based on past questionable incidents, it bears watching - at least to me. :)

Just found the Air Force Times article -- Command wide stand down -- and they are advertising it for the world to see.

OKaayy  -- you can shoot me now -- I'm not looking --- I'm not ready ---OKaayyy  Come on guys --- looka me. ::)

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_aircombatcommand_standdown_070807/

911 commission lied to.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/peter_tatchell/2007/09/911_the_big_coverup.html

Hi, New here. Hopefully, I've found a place where sanity rules. Been watching this site for some time and must say that it is informative as well as entertaining. Need to hide it from the wife though......she'll want to build a new house! I posted here for the first time, because it seems there are those here that share my sentiments about our gubberment. Later.

Welcome, Sparks.  Not everyone agrees with us but hopefully they will read enough to question and get their eyes open to what is really happening. :)

Entertaining :-? -- I'll have to go look for that part. ;D

Seven CIA veterans question the government 9/11 coverup.

http://www.bostonnow.com/blogs/pitbullpimple/2007/10/23/seven-cia-veterans-challenge-9/11-commission-report

Interview before Benizar Bhutto is assassinated she names Bin Ladens murderer -- Omar Sheikh
@ 6 min. 10 seconds  Note that this statement was edited out of many MSM replays of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ

Luckily the US has their own Bin Laden Forgery studio so we can continue to get messages from him from the great beyond.

We must keep chasing him so the war on terror has credibility.  How long can we keep him alive.  Resurrection, please,,, as the lies from our government continue.

Proof dubya knew what was up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlWSv0NZBRw&feature=related

Discussion regarding 9/11 has popped up in another topic. That may be found at...

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6078.msg79626#msg79626 (http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=6078.msg79626#msg79626)

There are several 9/11 posts intertwined with the topics main theme of grading Bush 43's performancePerhaps we should carry on there, until another anniversary date at least.