Who has the 411 on plaster repair

Started by benevolance, October 11, 2006, 07:16:47 AM

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benevolance

I have called a few guys and they told me they don't do plaster that they would rip out the existing plaster and install new sheetrock...

The plaster is in pretty decent shape...Only a few places cracked....I was hoping to  grind the cracked areas out...Repair...Sand all of the walls and repaint.

So it looks like I will have to do the plaster repair myself... Does anyone here have a lot of experience with plaster?

I have in the past done a lot of bodywork so I am used to grinding filling holes and sanding until my arms want to fall off... ;D....Looked at drywall tools last night and other than some spreaders and  sanding blocks...my greatest weapon will be an extended reach sander that can go upto 10 feet in the air..Which would be great for high ceilings and walls...

The drawback is they are very expensive probably looking at $600 for the sander....I would like a cheaper solution.... The only real problem is that I am married and the walls have to look like new when I am done... ;)

T

Hello,  

Just for what its worth.. depending on amount of area to be done.. IMHO from my past experience (strictly dry-wall stock/sand/hang), plastering was/is more an acquired art... sort of like finishing is today (believe it or not, reason for those stucco ceilings seen everywhere). If you have ever had to sand behind a crummy finisher for a living, you will remember it for the rest of your life. This is not to say you couldn't attempt it with a hock and trowel and 'lots' of sanding. But for the amount of work and possible future cracks, cost, time, I would look up a drywall finisher if that is indeed the route you want to go. It sounds like you may have contacted a drywall Co as opposed to a indiv finisher perhaps? Moreover, if a smooth ceiling is desired (or wall)... I would probably look at 1/4 drywall laid over with perhaps 1x ferring strips to allow for nailing (no reason to tear anything out). You could add additional foam insulation in between the ferring as well even run addional wiring etc? This is just what I have done in the past in this situation of 'older home' repair.

Kinda lost on the "$600 for the sander"?

The 'pole sanders' with screen, as well as stilts do make things faster/easier (I use to really hate sanding.... made a 1/4 cent/ft while hanging paid 1 cent/ft).
regards,
T


glenn kangiser

Just happens I was just in a historic building at Fort Tejon that has plaster and that reminded me that the NPS tells you how to do this stuff in their preservation briefs.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/hps/tps/briefs/brief21.htm


"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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glenn kangiser

I just saw one of the power extended reach sanders the other day.  Looked pretty cool and --yeah -- looked to be at least $500.

The manual pole version would work with a bunch of that elbow grease you have, Peter. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

benevolance

Yes the $600 sander was the extended reach type...

I was not wanting to get into tearing out the old plaster...And I was not wanting to install new drywall throughout the house either....It only has a few problem areas in the whole house...Most of the walls and ceilings are in good shape and a minor sanding and repainting is all that will be needed.

I was hoping to delegate some of this work to others to allow my time to be focused on getting the kitchen and floors done...And maybe attempt to go back to work and making money for a living.

I know it goes when you have to do everything yourself....With a full time job and a wife it will take near forever....

-Peter


Jens

Take the sclaw of a hammer, screwdriver, or any such tool on hand, and carve the crack out in a v shape.  If plaster on either side is sound, skip next step.  Drywall screws with plastic washers on either side of crack into lathe.  Dampen plaster and mesh tape over crack.  Mix up some 90, 40, or (if you are brave and fast) 5 minute mud, and apply to crack.  After it dries, give just enough sanding to knock down ridges and really high spots (if you have a lot of high spots, you can shape with a cheesegrater just like bondo when it starts to kick), and follow with mud.  Thin the drywall mud with water (not too thin, stiff cake batter, or thin peanut butter), and apply two coats, or more if needed to taper patch into surrounding area.  Get some drywall books from the library, a couple of trowels, and practice.  I do all of my drywall work with a 12" knife, mud hawk, and hand or pole sander BTW.  And wear a dust mask.
just spent a few days building a website, and didn't know that it could be so physically taxing to sit and do nothing all day!

benevolance

Wow that is a lot for me to take in...I got the cheesegrater part from autobody work....

Thanks for the tips...I bought a massive DIY manual from Popular mechanics....Cost me a bunch but it has detailed pictures of all kinds of household repairs...

I will be sure to P.M. you if I run into any other problems.

-Peter

Amanda_931

#7
One of Alex Wade's books had a pretty good explanation of plastering.  I think he figured that if you were doing a whole house, even a small one, by the time you got the scratch coat on, you'd be experienced enough to do the finish.  One of the first two, IIRC.

http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Wade,%20Alex
 
That video of the straw bale home--Building With Awareness--has excellent plaster demonstrations.  IIRC, earthen, gypsum and lime.

Lime sets up a lot slower than gypsum, but chances are pretty good that you've got gypsum, and there's probably pretty good reason to stay with what you've already got.

As soon as my straw-clay wall dries, we're planning a plastering party (lime in this case)--you're welcome to come.   ;)

I need to do some tests--what my ratio of sand to lime needs to be--too much sand and it's crumbly, too much lime and it cracks.  It may need as much as 5 sand to 1 lime. to work properly.  I'd forgotten that we cannot plaster if it's going to freeze in the next day or so.  I think I needed to remember that.

I've done a bit--half a day's worth--back in the days when they were using concrete on straw bale.  And a fair amount of drywall finishing.

Pool trowels apparently work better than the pointed edge jobs for beginners.  I'm one.  I like using them.

benevolance

I see this all the time and it bothers me... what the heck does IIRC mean?

As for the plaster...I am going to experiment.. well kind of...

See here is what I have come up with for a plan..I will do a little more reading and at the start I will grind out one of the cracks...Get the tools...Fill it as per described...Trowel it smooth skim coat it sand it and paint the area...

This is before I finish other renovations...Give it time to dry...I plan on spending every day for 2 weeks day and night in the house working....So I will have some time...

I want to fix a crack as a test see... and sand on the plaster around the crack to see how smooth I can make the wall look and then put on some paint so as to show off all the imperfections on the wall....

If I like the way the wall looks I will fix the other cracks that way more or less...If not I will ask for more help and read more...Maybe invest in getting someone to come help me...

I learned with autobody sanding that you can overcome lack of mastered skill with unreal amounts of sanding....As you get better at mixing plastic spreading plastic.. banging out dents and keeping the heat down on your welding you have to do less bodywork and thus less sanding.

I suspect that the same principle holds true for this....I may fumble it up a little and it might look like a drunked idiot filled in the cracks...I am hoping to do a half decent job grinding out the old cracks and filling it...And then just sanding the ever living crap out of the patching to make it look great

If this seems incredibly stupid to you guys feel free to interject.

I am not a housepaint guy at all....But I was thinking...What about those faux finishes that are more than one color or have patterns inside patterns or whatever...

I know from autobody work that a stripe hides imperfections down the side of a quarterpanel....Wouldn't one of those paint schemes hide minor blemishes in the walls of my house?

Plus the wife might think me genius or sophisticated for learning about and applying one of those fancy paint schemes to the rooms in the house.

I am trying to think of everything to make it look good here folks...Is this a good or bad idea???


T

It sounds like a good plan.

regarding IIRC... I believe the context is 'If I Recall Correctly' as opposed to 'Isn't It Really Cool ;-)  

I would agree any wall covering can be used. I have used faux finishes several times before and they do hide imperfections. To a greater degree as mentioned earlier, stucco, spray-ons like vermiculite etc can be used. These are typically done right over the first tape on drywall. In my opinion the ceilings are where you really see imperfections  the most  (cheaper looking IMHO)  If this is antiquated house.. so what, plaster and sand away as you plan.  The walls will be easier than ceilings since you are not fighting gravity of course so that would be a good place to start. If you use any backing (tape, paper etc) you will be limited to that depth. Over sanding to the point where the backing is exposed will stand out when painted. Sorta like auto-body and you use that dent puller.

While on this subject.. (I realize its a little off what you are doing)

http://www.americantinceilings.com/?source=adwords&campaign=2353974&adgroup=8359134&keyword=14514480&wcw=google

I used this tin covering in a kitchen remodel project here at home. I was at the point in the project that the expenditure of more tile was getting a little too expensive. Not to mention, I just completed the floor tile and have done quite a bit of it throughout the house (its getting old). I used this tin as a back-splash and it turned out pretty cool (lot's of color choices). This allowed me move all my outlets up under the cabinets and give the back wall under the cabinets a cleaner look. You can trim edges with wood or what I did, was use the metal floor threshold used with linoleum room transition and sprayed painted it to the correct color (they have match paint too). This is more expensive than just plaster and paint but an option, as it will hide almost anything. It comes in a 24x24 in sheet. Any of the 6in patterns fit under cabinets (18in) by trimming the 1st 6in row off each panel. Grab your liquid nails and away you go. You get sample packs to get a better idea.
regards,
T

Sassy

#10
T, while browsing through the site you posted, I came across a Round Oak stove - one of the 1st airtights - looks just like the one we have except a slightly different casting on the nickle skirting & front vent - neat to see another one like ours  :) .  The tin is a great idea for wall protection - put an air space behind the tin tiles - you could  eliminate the wood framing behind the tiles & use a light metal frame + you have the reflective properties...




A few years ago we toured the Hearst Castle in San Simeon (California coast) - there were a lot of fancy ceiling tiles, including gold plated ones.
http://glennkathystroglodytecabin.blogspot.com/

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benevolance

Thanks for the link to the tin...I am definately going to use it in at least 1-2 rooms in the house...My wife will have to pick the pattern and colour....But yes it will save me a boatload of time and it will look fantastic.

I spend every waking minute thinking about the house..Colour Schemes, where furniture is going to go....Trying to get the most bang for the buck...You know

But this totally escaped my mind....Thanks a lot! This just goes to show how much information and how many fantastic building resources there are out there...Not to mention that when you combine brain power you can really accomplish something great.

I dunno if I will tell my wife where I am coming up with some of these ideas....hehe, I mean she might actually think I am capable and compitent. We don't want to go ruining something like that now do we? :P

I just checked and the tin is gorgeous...But whoah it is not cheap! To do a 12X 18 room it will cost $1000 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I will still likely do the kitchen and  the bathrooms with it...They need the most work in the house...But wow it is expensive

T

Hello Sassy,  

Is that what they also call a Chunk Stove? Never noticed that pic. The tin ceilings have been making their come back. I like them (nice change).

I tested the finish that these folks apply to the tin and it does appear to be pretty tough, though it can get scratched to some extent so I would probably limit its use on a wall depending...  Prior to using it myself and because these would be used as a back splash and subject to 'stuff'. I took steak sauce, lemon juice and anything else I could fine and let it sit on it over night and it didn't do a thing to it. The paint they provide is 99 % as close as you come to the original coating so wall plates and touch up is still possible.

As a non-flammable material yea it should work fine.. I would take a sample and place it near a working stove for a while to see how the color coating would hold up (but that's just me). In your pic the color is the actual tin, not sure if it was coated as are the other colors avail. To add to a frame idea you could simply stack fire brick behind the tin in iron channel of sorts or back it with a lot of perhaps fiber glass or any of the fire-proof material avail for this purpose. Maybe having the air flow behind would actually safer, better to consult those who know... In that pic, I imagine they screwed it to something... perhaps used spacers off the wall as opposed to using a liquid nails glue as I did.
regards,
T

T

Yea Peter, it is pricier than some methods of 'covering'.. but I think if done in a limited manner, perhaps even in some sort of accent-way (spelling) to highlight some view of a room or space it isn't too bad. In my circumstance my wife can walk into a tile shop (nay place for that matter) and can pick the most expensive item right off the bat in the whole place.. (with no price tags evident)  if I ask her to look at some others... her choices are in descending order of price ;-/  

So for me this saved me about 1K.... go figure huh? The other side to this, is it isn't a temporary thing (at least I don't see it like that) i.e. it would be for the life of the room (space, whatever). Therefore, you may not want to choose that "Hot Day Glow Purple" color since you may want to repaint someday.

regards,
T


T

Oh forgot to add. This maybe obvious. But if you pursue this, Tin Snips are colored for a reason which you can check on your own. For my application I bought the heaviest, largest (straight cut) 'new' snips I could fine. I found after just a few cuts, I could shave almost 1/16 of an inch off at a time so depending on your app you don't really need the big sheer they advertise not to mention the factory edges are not sharp and look fine.
regards,
T

benevolance

T

I would go with the white tin ceiling....Not much of anything I would ever want to paint purple...... 8-)

white goes with all colours for the walls....So it is safe and it works....Which works for me ;)

Jens

If you are sanding a lot, then you are not doing it right.  I am well versed in auto body as well (having built cars from scratch and all) and found that the auto body mentality does not work with walls.  When you apply the mud, press hardest on the edges to feather it all out.  A properly finished butt seem in drywall (same as plaster), should have about 15-25 inches of mud (width) to properly feather.  The trick is making the wall smooth, not flat.  If you try to make it flat it will never work.  A damp sponge works great for feathering all-purpose mud after it has dried.  I kinda wish I could just come over and give you a hand to show you the ropes!  Oh well. ;)  Please do PM with any questions, I could even give you my number if you can remember about the time difference!  Calls at 5 in the morning are not my cup of tea.
just spent a few days building a website, and didn't know that it could be so physically taxing to sit and do nothing all day!

benevolance

Hey thanks for the offer...I am on the east coast so yes I will try to remember that you are far, far away...

If I do get stuck I would be glad for all the help I can get. I make no pretenses that I am mostly an idiot.... I continually stumble through life forcing myself to do everything even if someone else could and should be doing it better than me.

Getting married for me meant I had to be everything. We got the house we have had for 2 years and I became an electrician (a very bad one) and a plumber(half decent)..Roofer(can hold my own)..Painter, carpenter...etc...

Now we bought our second home and I have to be Martha Stewart with Testicles :P...I have to plan ahead, visualise...Be able to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t....

I love my wife but she looks at me as if I can just do it...No matter what the task is....That in among itself is daunting

So yeah I am all about getting advice and help whenever I can. I know I am just playing at being a plumber or carpenter. If I had any money I could make better use of my time getting someone that knew what the heck they were doing to help me with some of this.

That would probably be smarter as it would allow me to work and make money and do what I do best....But no I am going to do it the hard way....By myself... ;)

Kinds weird though I am anxious to get at it in some ways to see what I can make of the place.

Jens

I don't think it is idiotic or weird.  The things that will get you to succeed are not being afraid to keep trying, not being afraid to fail (and try again), and not being too proud to ask questions.  Sounds to me like you've got it licked.  Oh yeah, and not settling for "good enough" helps too, although I have been known to from time to time!
just spent a few days building a website, and didn't know that it could be so physically taxing to sit and do nothing all day!

Amanda_931

Either "good enough" or

[size=24]It's supposed to be rustic[/size]

I've done both on occasion.  I've also had to re-do things because I was wrong about both or either.


benevolance

Guys, Gals

I will gladly settle for "Half way Decent" :-/

No joke