20x32 A frame cabin Central KY

Started by EaglesSJ, July 23, 2010, 10:39:15 PM

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astidham

Eagles you might want to put hardy backer concrete board on the wall behind your Shield, that should stop any radiant heat that passes through!
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice"
— Henry Ford

EaglesSJ

I did one better. I cut out the wood behind the shield and now it has a nice cool breeze that fills the pocket from the cooler air behind the knee wall. And there is no wood left to burn. I did leave a small piece of wood so I would have something to screw into for my little spacers in the middle.



Don_P

If you don't have one, smoke detectors are mighty cheap insurance.

MountainDon

On the water pipe insulation....

What kind of insulation? The foam stuff made for pipes? I ask because wrapping some types of insulation with duct tape will crush and reduce the air spaces and it's the encapsulated air that provides the insulation.

Insulation is fine as far as it goes. It retards the movement of heat from the warmer side to the cold side. That's the direction the heat will always travel. If there is not much heat in the warmer place (inside the insulation, in the piping), and if there is no introduction of new heat into that space, it will drop to the outside, colder temperature. For certain.    Putting more insulation in the floor removes a source of heat from above to the pipes below, unless I am misinterpreting what you are describing. It is my opinion that is counterproductive to keeping the pipes from freezing. Perhaps I do not understand the layout there.


Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

On the chimney...

Removal of combustibles is good. But a piece of cement board or similar material, even solid brick, over combustibles is not recognized as proper heat protection. It may slow down the heat transfer but eventually with a fire burning long enough the same issues with wood charring will be encountered.

Note, NFPA rules do not permit fasteners through the heat shielding in the area directly behind the pipe. Fasteners and their standoffs should be off to the sides according to them.

But what you have there is much better than before. The air gaps are smaller than what NFPA calls for, but you have two of them. That may count for something. Do you have a means to measure the temperature behind the heat shields? Perhaps one of those indoor/outdoor types with the outside sensor on a thin cord could be used?  I have measured the temperature behind the heat shield in our gazebo. It never goes above 100 degrees while the metal itself gets to be blistering hot.

Also what is inside that chimney box? Does it pass through the wall with the rest of the box on the outside? Insulated pipe in the box? Any combustibles is what I'm asking.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


MountainDon

Quote from: Don_P on December 08, 2010, 10:48:56 PM
If you don't have one, smoke detectors are mighty cheap insurance.

Ours goes off when we toast bread. So we appreciate the quick "bayonet" twist lock mount.

We also have three fire extinguishers on hand, two  4-A:60-B:C  and one  2-A:10-B:C dry chemical types
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

EaglesSJ

I have 4 smoke detectors one on either end of the house upstairs and down. We also have 2 big (2 ft tall, 6-7" diameter) fire extinguishers just in case. Inside the chimney box is just a piece of triple wall pipe that extends out the ceiling. Even with a scorching fire you could put your tongue on it if you wanted. even the box itself never gets about warm. I could crawl back in behind the knee wall and take a temperature I suppose. I do believe that it is much better than before though for sure. But after seeing how quick heat can take its toll on wood that is too close I dont want to fool around anymore.


ben2go

Co2 detectors are great additions also.We have them and they have went off before.Too much opening of the stove door I guess.Opened the front door and a window across from the door and all was fine.Oh yeah, and opened the flue damper a little more.

bradyman

I've seen you and your lady on jeepforum as well. I think it is very cool what you are doing. Living off grid is not for the faint of heart! For the pipes, I think the best solution is to install the piping up in the floor joist next to the subfloor. Then insulate below the pipes. This will create a pocket of warm air that the pipes will survive in. I doubt you will have much luck with anything else short of heat tape or heating the area under the home. If you install the pipes in the floor joist they shouldn't need any extra insulation. Just make sure to insulate below them and NOT above them.

Aluminum is a great conductor of heat. That is why most automobile radiators and heat sinks are made from aluminum. I would suggest using steel to protect the framing from the wood stove. I would be afraid that the aluminum would conduct the heat too much back to the framing. This may not be an issue with the extra air space you have, but it would be a concern of mine.

I hope I have been helpful. Good luck. Maybe I missed it but what are you doing for potable water, and for grey / black water disposal?


EaglesSJ

Grey water disposal flows into a underground gravel pit and there is no black water because we use a composting toilet.

speedfunk

My house when growing up is now un occupied and unheated. To keep water main from freeze we open the facet a little bit in a sink. 
fwiw  :D

Don_P

Sorry, all the pictures don't load for me most of the time. Judging from the rosin flow out of the wood, you are about to light   :-\. This setup is not good. Can you slide over and go out where the window is?

EaglesSJ

Quote from: MountainDon on December 08, 2010, 10:52:34 PM
On the water pipe insulation....

What kind of insulation? The foam stuff made for pipes? I ask because wrapping some types of insulation with duct tape will crush and reduce the air spaces and it's the encapsulated air that provides the insulation.

Insulation is fine as far as it goes. It retards the movement of heat from the warmer side to the cold side. That's the direction the heat will always travel. If there is not much heat in the warmer place (inside the insulation, in the piping), and if there is no introduction of new heat into that space, it will drop to the outside, colder temperature. For certain.    Putting more insulation in the floor removes a source of heat from above to the pipes below, unless I am misinterpreting what you are describing. It is my opinion that is counterproductive to keeping the pipes from freezing. Perhaps I do not understand the layout there.




foam pipe insulation wrapped with regular insulation on top of that. I put insulation in between all the floor joist and then on the bottom of the pipes so that all the pipes are now sandwiched between two layers of R19 and then I stapled all of that to the bottom of the floor with black plastic sheeting.

IronPatriotTN

In the winter you might want to drop some tarps as skirting around the cabin. You go to keep the cold wind out away from any pipes.


EaglesSJ

I already done that. that was one of the first things on my agenda. I put it on the inside of the stacked wood and stapled it to. I guess my insulation sandwich worked out ok. We have a good amount of snow on the ground right now and its about 19 degrees and the water is flowing fine. Finally

OkieJohn2

This is not really a serious suggestion, but long ago it was not uncommon to build houses up high and use the space underneath for keeping livestock in the winter.
The problem with foolproof devices is that they fail to take into account the ingenuity of fools

Johnbrakingground

 [cool] You guys did in a few months, what my wife and I have been talking about for 3 years.  Congrats.  You and your family have inspired me and my family to get this thing going.  Living without a mortgage is our goal.  I have been looking around for a couple years on someone that has built an A-frame.  I like the simple design and the way it goes up fast.  I can't beleive I ended up finding it in the forum where I spend most of my time.   Great family and I'm sure your very proud of building it with your own two hands.  Keep an eye out, we may be on this forum doing something similar very soon.  Nice Job

considerations

Whew - good save on the pipes.   Running water is such a huge convenience.   

bayview

    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .

ben2go

I am a member of that site and never even saw that thread till now.


EaglesSJ

I greatly appreciate you posting that link. I am glad that I could help somebody out and maybe a bit of inspiration to stop throwing so much money away to banks when you can live free and happy on a smaller scale with alot less worry (well the occasional water freeze or propane fill catches you off guard)

Also I am very intrigued by the mention of their wood basement as we were looking at building a basement under here this spring. We are just going to do the back half of the house so that the pipes dont freeze and it will give me a place to do my reloading and her scrapbooking as well as a entryway to the house that we dont mind getting dirty. Right now all of our funds are going towards building a fence for a couple horses. I will post pics when available. Right now were sitting under alot of snow so not doing much at all other than packing in wood for the stove.

Looks like solar will be coming also in spring due to the enlarged tax refund for all the energy efficient options that we went with while building. This is what we are most excited about! Not having to start the generator every couple days to charge the battery bank.

speedfunk

free and happy on a small scale...hell yeah...that is what its about.   ;D

EaglesSJ


Redoverfarm

One nice thing about an A-frame is there's not a snow load to worry about. ;D  Nice pic

dollarcounter

That snow-covered exterior shot in the woods is beautiful.  It would be really great to see some interior shots of the upper level if there've been any updates.