Pfizer Too big to fail

[Windpower]

Way back in the 80's Upjohn was one of my big customers ( I think Upjohn was a decent company BTW)

Nice to know that they are still helping big pharma -- watch to the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr7W07nMiDY&feature=player_embedded

[Native_NM]

How much Pharma stock do you own?

[Windpower]

I am completely out of the US stock market

what is your point ?

[Native_NM]

Kinda ironic that you made your living in an industry that you now have an issue with.  Your MO is to post YouTube video links without really stating your own opinion directly; I'm left to infer what the point of this post is..  I'll try.

You have a nice place. Paid with pharma dollars? Indirectly for sure.   When you retired, did you sell pharma stock and move to treasuries?  You ever take drugs?  Your wife or kids? If your grandson hooked himself fishing and developed a nasty infection would you give him antibiotics,  or just say prayers and rub a voodoo doll or have a seance or whatever else the anti-pharma folks do these days?

Since you seem to have a moral or ethical issue with Pharma, I think you should disclose how much you benefited directly or indirectly over your career.  You should also disclose what medication you take on a regular basis.  Perhaps tell us what YOU learned as an industry insider. Provide some direct insight and personal viewpoints.  Anderson Cooper is not a journalist.  He hosts his own personal op-ed reality show live on CNN.   His opinions are unabashadly liberal, and he has stated such many times.  He makes no apology for slanting his "news" with a liberal twist.

I could post a video that lists the positive impact Big Bad Pharma has had on society. Would it matter to you?  I wonder how many gay men like Cooper are alive today because of advances pharma made treating HIV?  Pharma has saved millions of lives.  Perhaps billions.  I'd say that makes them pretty important.

Why don't you tell us what the point of your video link was.  You are clearly intelligent. I'd be more interested in hearing your view, and learning from it, than another shill from the MSM.  All of those guys (Cooper, Beck, et al) are about as credible as a crack who$e snitch. 

[Native_NM]

I own 113.34 shares of Pfizer as of right now.  Dividends are reinvested to purchase more shares.  I bought 100 shares way back when right after the 3:1 split.   I don't take any regular medication, and avoid NSAID's. I will take medication if I have to.

[Windpower]

"Since you seem to have a moral or ethical issue with Pharma, I think you should disclose how much you benefited directly or indirectly over your career.  You should also disclose what medication you take on a regular basis."

What I do not understand about you, NM, and a few others here is you seem to think Ad hominem, Ad Hominem Tu Quoque, Circumstantial Ad Hominem, straw men, and a host of other non-sensical  'arguments'  make any sense at all.

They have no value. They are logical fallacies. People that resort to these types of 'arguments' do so because they are either ignorant of what they are trying to posit or they have no facts, logic or rhetoric to either prove their position or argue against another's.


"Perhaps tell us what YOU learned as an industry insider. Provide some direct insight and personal viewpoints." 

When I have made points based on 'insider information' in the past they have been ignored or ridiculed.

Matthew 7:6 comes to mind.




"Anderson Cooper is not a journalist.  He hosts his own personal op-ed reality show live on CNN.   His opinions are unabashadly liberal, and he has stated such many times.  He makes no apology for slanting his "news" with a liberal twist."

See logical fallacies above



Link to Logical Fallacies:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[rwanders]

Sounds like it cost Pfizer 2 Billion + which is far more than the "illegal" profits they made.  Not enough flesh for some? Interesting that it is legal for doctors to prescribe drugs for unapproved uses---done because many have uses which do not have enough demand to support their own extensive test regime. I believe these are known as "orphan drugs". Doesn't mean they are neccesarily ineffective or unsafe.

My mother in law was finally able to receive one of these drugs for treatment for a terminal genetic illness----after much suffering without it she has now survived for over 10 years after we were told she had 5 years maximum life expectancy. She is still terminal but, we have had her welcome company for twice that prognosis.

Interesting that the left always wants to bring in a hanging judge for a corporation but, seems to have great concern that something like Acorn will be unfairly penalized for small transgressions like voter fraud and facilitating child prostitution. To anyone who believes that a 2 Billion fine plus all their legal costs will not send an effective message to a CEO and Board of Directors-----I've got a conspiracy theory or two that our friend Windpower will sell you cheap.

[rwanders]

"Since you seem to have a moral or ethical issue with Pharma, I think you should disclose how much you benefited directly or indirectly over your career.  You should also disclose what medication you take on a regular basis."

What I do not understand about you, NM, and a few others here is you seem to think Ad hominem, Ad Hominem Tu Quoque, Circumstantial Ad Hominem, straw men, and a host of other non-sensical  'arguments'  make any sense at all.

They have no value. They are logical fallacies. People that resort to these types of 'arguments' do so because they are either ignorant of what they are trying to posit or they have no facts, logic or rhetoric to either prove their position or argue against another's.


"Perhaps tell us what YOU learned as an industry insider. Provide some direct insight and personal viewpoints." 

When I have made points based on 'insider information' in the past they have been ignored or ridiculed.

Matthew 7:6 comes to mind.




"Anderson Cooper is not a journalist.  He hosts his own personal op-ed reality show live on CNN.   His opinions are unabashadly liberal, and he has stated such many times.  He makes no apology for slanting his "news" with a liberal twist."

See logical fallacies above



Link to Logical Fallacies:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Windpower, I certainly agree that you have much personal experience with logical fallacies. Your extensive collection is rarely challenged in it's breadth and depth. I recognize that much of it is not solely of your devising but, merely passed on from respected sources of insider information gleaned from media talking heads, the internet and blogosphere. Until the building of their sterling reputations as the source of all truth, we had to make do with conversations over our backyard fences and those marvels of modern journalism found at checkout counters at our local grocery stores.   

As for the use of biblical sources;  A favorite of mine is found on the Tablets Of Moses------"Thou shall not bear false witness". Not, I assure you, accusing anyone of that transgression but, I believe, carelessly repeating what may be falsehoods of others could be tantamount to violating the spirit if not the letter of the commandment.

Alas, our enlightened society seems to have lost our old-time intolerance of gossips and public scolds and, as a result, the ducking stool of our puritan ancestors has fallen out of fashion.

Your Friend

RW 

[Native_NM]

Inconsistency and hypocrisy.  We have a nation of people who complain about the evil Left or the evil Right or the evil Corporation, or evil Government who simultaneously cash their paycheck, welfare check, EIC "refund", SS check, or equivalent.  It is OK for me to profit from Pfizer's evil, but not you.  It is OK for me to get a "tax refund" that exceeds my net tax paid, but if GE pays no taxes they are greedy.  America has a big bad case of NIMBY.  (Not in my backyard).  

This is not debate club.  I haven't played that game in over 30 years.  What I attempt to show is the hypocrisy of situations like this.  I didn't state they were innocent.  I stated "so what?".   If you feel that strongly about it, figure out how much you profited from your Bextra sales and write a check to Uncle Sam.  It is easy to be righteous and pious after the fact.  

Irony: The government spends millions prosecuting Pfizer for prescribing an FDA-approved drug for unapproved purposes, and that is "keeping them honest.".  The government spends millions prosecuting "a quack" Burzynski in Houston for dispensing untested and non-FDA approved "medicine" and its unjust persecution...

I know, I know, logical fallacy....

[rwanders]

 

NM, I still love you.

RW

[Native_NM]

It is the CPA in me.  I don't care what people believe in as long as they are consistent.  Even mostly consistent would be enough for me.  Many moons ago when I was doing audit work, the rule was "if it wrong, but, they always do it wrong, and it is not material, then move along."   Consistency. 

There is a goofy guy in Albuquerque - Schrader is his name. Minimalist and environmentalist.  Mountain Don probably knows who I'm talking about.  Anti-war crusader.  Certifiable in some respects.  The thing I always respected about him was how true his actions were to his ideals.  He walks everywhere, lives in a 300' square converted garage, grows his own food, and has not purchased anything new in 30 years.  Not how I choose to live, but he walks the walk.  He has my respect.

Your friend,

Trapper     

[Windpower]

NM quote
You have a nice place.
unquote

Thank you very much. We enjoy it.



NM quote
I own 113.34 shares of Pfizer as of right now.  Dividends are reinvested to purchase more shares.
unquote

Sorry I didn't know that a major portion of your life savings were tied up in Pfizer stock -- clearly this caused you to have  a biased reaction to this news.

NM quote
Anti-war crusader.  Certifiable in some respects.
unquote

Well of course -- anyone that is anti-war MUST be crazy. I certainly understand your views better now.

and finally

NM quote
It is the CPA in me.
unquote

say no more ....

[Native_NM]

My Pfizer stock is an immaterial portion of my retirement.  I asked you to disclose your ties to big pharma as well as your usage of their products.  I felt it was fair that I do the same.  I'm interested to know if you ever sold Bextra for non-approved usage.  I'm curious if your retirement was funded with pharma dollars.  

Schrader is "certifiable" for many reasons. His anti-war stance is not one of them.  He advocates drinking urine, sex with boys, and a host of other wacky things.  His consistency to his ideals is admirable, however.  

We trade posts, but we still don't know what you think.  What was the purpose of posting the video?  What were you hoping the viewers would discern in those seven minutes?  Did you learn anything?  Was it true or was it liberal bias?  Did you know the whistleblower Glen?  You post a link, wait for a comment, then attack those who respond.  I can't attack your view because you didn't disclose your position on big bad pharma.  When you do, the questions I asked are fair to the debate and issue.  

CPA, lumberjack, fireman, big-pharma hack, we all got do something.  I'm a numbers guy and environmental advocate within reason.  I try and live  simple, and look forward to retiring to a place like yours.  When I get there, I won't forget how. I'm proud of what I do.  If I was ever in a position I wasn't, I'd quit.  My personal convictions outweigh a few bucks.  

Peace.

[Native_NM]

http://www.pfizer.com/about/accolades/accolades.jsp

I was reading all these horrible things about Pfizer from the above link and realize now why you posted the video.  I say we storm their corporate headquarters and shut the place down...

[rwanders]

http://www.pfizer.com/about/accolades/accolades.jsp

I was reading all these horrible things about Pfizer from the above link and realize now why you posted the video.  I say we storm their corporate headquarters and shut the place down...

I agree!

Any corporation that demonstrates a record like the one described in this link is obviously only doing it to cover up their dismal history of providing services and products in order to make a profit. Then when middle management is caught in an unethical or illegal action, the only correct penalty has been pointed out by many upstanding, fair-minded champions of justice such as:

Judge Roy Bean, Law West of The Pecos;     " Hang em High"

The Queen of Hearts, Noted Ruler of The Rabbit Hole;     "Off With Their Heads"

The Big Bad Wolf, Scourge of Capitalist Pigs;   "I'll Huff and Puff and Blow Their
                                                                               House Down"

Joseph Stalin, Hero of the People;      "Death is the Solution to All Problems"







                       

[MountainDon]

There is a goofy guy in Albuquerque - Schrader is his name. Minimalist and environmentalist.  Mountain Don probably knows who I'm talking about.  Anti-war crusader.  Certifiable in some respects.  The thing I always respected about him was how true his actions were to his ideals.  He walks everywhere, lives in a 300' square converted garage, grows his own food, and has not purchased anything new in 30 years.  Not how I choose to live, but he walks the walk.  He has my respect.

Hmmm. I have always thought Don Shrader had mental health issues. Being an anti-war crusader does not make him crazy, but much of what he advocates is plain nuts to most of us. The Alibi, the weekly free newspaper, has named him as the "Best Local Crackpot" in its annual "Best of 'Burque" issue for probably a dozen or more years. I think the ABQ Journal did a story on him a while back too.

Consistently crazy I guess.    Maybe that is too harsh. Consistently eccentric. As long as he doesn't do anything to actually harm a third party he is tolerated.