CountryPlans Forum

Hi friends.

Thought I'd spread the word that I have a design/build website up. Please follow if you're interested in the project.
ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)

There's a good shout out to to CountryPlans on there. I'll also be updating this forum as progress is made. Design drawings are all included on the page so you can get a feel for the project. I have roughly a two-year time frame. Next year I'll be doing foundation and floor, and 2016 will be framing and exterior finish. Lot's an hour from home, so it'll be mostly Friday thru Sunday build windows. Sure to have plenty of questions coming your way!

All the best,
Drew

Informative, and some good writing. Thank you for sharing this.

I'd never heard of a 'Traditional' vs. 'Basic' building permit before, where 'Basic' has minimal or no inspection requirements. That seems innovative, and could make a lot of sense for light-use dwellings in sparsely populated areas.

Idaho does not seem to have caught up yet with some of the other western states in terms of grey water disposal.  Keep on that, and maybe dig into the regulations directly - would not be surprised if things are changing on that front.

Great to see another project on here from Idaho. 

Have done a sort'a quick read on your blog.  Your country is a lot different than ours yet border each other.  Apparently Elmore County is a lot more aggressive on inspections and permitting.  Fact was we were required engineering and pretty precise mapping up here in the 'snow country'.  Now from what I understand that has been relaxed some.  I understand now much of that headache was propagated by our last building inspector.  The county now is a lot more willing to look case by case.  However we can not pull a permit for 'basic construction[ for a dwelling.  We can pull a permit for a AG building that is not inspected and if it falls over on its side.  It is your problem not ours.  That said it may not be used as an occupied dwelling.  Our big shop was an Ag building permit but because of the size and type.  They required engineered trusses and a couple inspections.  Again our old building inspector.           

Central District Health is of course State of Idaho.  Dealing with them for us is out of Mountain Home office and they have been good to work with.  Yet ours is an inside the box plan and simple cookie cutter septic tank with drain field we installed.  I understand they also are still permitting pit toilets and such.  Low useage can be pretty simple.  High useage needs a poured vault and a means to pump it out as needed.  Gray water from what I understand can still be handled in such a manor as you stated.  That said I understand they are getting more and more restricting each year.  Best to get your system 'grandfathered in' before they tell you well that is the way it used to be........  Now we do not do it that way. 

                     

Hi Rick -

The difference in county requirements is definitely interesting. I was pretty shocked (maybe I shouldn't have been?) at the lack in Boise County. The "basic permit" affidavit makes a lot of sense though for a planning office with minimal capacity. I'm fortunate to have some architect and engineer friends. They're guiding a lot of the design and not letting me skirt best building practices - the cabin will meet or exceed most/all requirements, but If I can avoid those permit and/or stamp fees I will! :)

For greywater, I'm planning to get my permit before the year's over (just in case they decide to makes things tougher in 2015). I'll be installing a drain field like I outlined in the blog. With zero black/septic water, it should be OK.

Heard back from the engineer yesterday so I'll be updating the blog soon with some good news.

ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)

Cheers,
Drew

Hey guys -

Been awhile since getting on; not a lot to do with all the snow at the lot. I have a question on shed style roof framing. These roofs seem popular, look great, but there's not a lot of info out there. Most of what you find is for... sheds. Not really adequate for a home.

My question is this: How are exterior walls along the two sloped sides normally finished at the top to support rafters? I've seen examples where studs are notched to support outer rafter, others run a horizontal top plate from the low side and put supports from there. My structure will be 32' in length, with a 3.5/12 slope running this distance. Right now, I plan to install a double top plate that matches the roof pitch and tie into the low end and high side top plate. This means all my studs would have 3.5/12 cuts at the top to slide in. Running a horizontal top plate from the low side doesn't really work, as I'm planning two stories at the tall end (tall loft), but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong...

Is that typical? I can post some pictures if that's helpful. You can go to my blog (www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)) and go to "framing" for some help.

Thanks,
D

I will PM you with some local ideas....

I would angle the top of the upper wall, ripping top plate edges to angle if needed.  I'd block between rafters, if vented use one dimension smaller blocking material. The overhangs could be cut down, plumb at the wall line then parallel with the stick to make the fascia smaller, else a double layer of fascia would cover that width with stock dimensions. I'd probably eliminate the rafter over the wall and run lookouts from the first inboard rafter across and bearing on the wall then out to the fly rafter. Then use the rafter over the wall to make blocking over the wall that fits between lookouts. That makes a much stronger overhang in snow country than flatways lookouts. I'd platform frame the loft area.

"angle the top of the upper wall"  Rather than have it flat with a birdsmouth cut in the rafter? I just want to be sure I understand what you are saying.
Like this? This is from this forum...
(https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd106/stelkia/SDC10472_86_zps6559775e.jpg) (https://s220.photobucket.com/user/stelkia/media/SDC10472_86_zps6559775e.jpg.html)

Hi all -

Back online after winter. It's spring, the ground is dry, and I just got my building permits!

Scoping out a few details for the upcoming concrete pour. I'm doing 12" sonotubes, and looking at doing Simpson ABU66z's. I picked up 10" x 5/8" J anchors today. Do you think those will be sufficient, or should I have gone with 12"?

Much more to come over the next few weeks.

Hi again -

Groundbreaking day gets closer and closer (hopefully within the next 3-4 weeks). I have a couple questions for you all:

• What's your thought on mixing concrete on-site? My lot is very remote, no water, no power. I'm building with pier/post, and need about 3.5 yards of concrete. I've been trying to line up an inspection/estimation from a concrete crew, but scheduling has been tricky (trying not to take too much time off work). I'm really leaning towards buying a mixer, using a water tank, and going at my own pace. Anyone have experience or a recommendation here?


• If I go with mixing on my own, I'm trying to figure out my water setup. What I'm thinking is a 50 gallon tank in the back of the pickup, attached to a Flojet 4525. This is a 12v pump, that I would later use for my cabin's water system. It's fancy, but I'm not wanting to get a pump just for this concrete project and then later buy the Flojet. Here's the problem: These pumps are made for wiring to a battery, like in an RV, cabin or boat. For this concrete project, I will have access to my truck that has the 12v cigarette outlet, and a nearby generator will also have a 12v hookup. Can I wire a cigarette-style 12v hookup to a pump like this and plug it into truck and/or generator?? Anyone with experience here? Flojet makes a 110v version, but it's harder to find and not what I'd want to use in the final build.

I feel like this is such a small thing, but these are the little things that come up when you start hitting the details. Thanks for any help. In the next couple of weeks you should start seeing some photos of the site/build.

Take care.

Looks like that pump draws 12 amps. I don't think you can do that through most cigar lighter sockets. Just clip it to the battery.  Most generators with 12 VDC state it is only for battery charging, not running an appliance. Not sure why they say that.

Confirming running directly from the car battery - and not a fuse protected cig. lighter socket. I've run a DC pump pulling from 275 feet directly from the battery in our 4Runner. It is 600CCA I believe.  Not sure how long it would run for though.  It would be good to rig a switch and fuse if you do much of that.

Thanks guys. I'll go with a wiring setup for the the car battery then. Like the idea of factoring in a switch and fuse.

My pressurized water needs shouldn't be much for the project - just for spraying down the mixer and hand tools. I can add water to the concrete mixer by hand.

Quote from: midrover170 on April 20, 2015, 10:41:16 PM
Hi again -

Groundbreaking day gets closer and closer (hopefully within the next 3-4 weeks). I have a couple questions for you all:

• What's your thought on mixing concrete on-site? My lot is very remote, no water, no power. I'm building with pier/post, and need about 3.5 yards of concrete. I've been trying to line up an inspection/estimation from a concrete crew, but scheduling has been tricky (trying not to take too much time off work). I'm really leaning towards buying a mixer, using a water tank, and going at my own pace. Anyone have experience or a recommendation here?

Having just mixed nearly 250 #80 bags by hand, 50 gallons of water won't be enough, plan on 100 gals. by the time you spill/splash/clean up/etc..  I would definitely buy/borrow a mixer too... that's a lot to mix in a wheelbarrow. 

• If I go with mixing on my own, I'm trying to figure out my water setup. What I'm thinking is a 50 gallon tank in the back of the pickup, attached to a Flojet 4525. This is a 12v pump, that I would later use for my cabin's water system. It's fancy, but I'm not wanting to get a pump just for this concrete project and then later buy the Flojet. Here's the problem: These pumps are made for wiring to a battery, like in an RV, cabin or boat. For this concrete project, I will have access to my truck that has the 12v cigarette outlet, and a nearby generator will also have a 12v hookup. Can I wire a cigarette-style 12v hookup to a pump like this and plug it into truck and/or generator?? Anyone with experience here? Flojet makes a 110v version, but it's harder to find and not what I'd want to use in the final build.

I did the 50 gal. barrel... not enough water.  I was able to get my hands on a 275 gal. tote tank with a 2" ball valve on the bottom and when you open the valve it'll fill a 5 gal. bucket before you can get it closed... no pump necessary.  One of the generators I use at work has a 12V cigar lighter as well as 2 connectors to wire in a 12V device... maybe look for that feature if you're considering buying a genny... might I suggest remote start as well... pretty nice not to have to go start/stop it everytime.

I feel like this is such a small thing, but these are the little things that come up when you start hitting the details. Thanks for any help. In the next couple of weeks you should start seeing some photos of the site/build.

Take care.

Thanks for the feedback on concrete, folks. I ended up getting a 50 gallon farm tank for the project. I'll have to fill it up 2-3 times for all the mixing, but it's the most manageable size for the back of my pickup.

This past weekend I broke ground after finalizing the foundation layout. 19 different piers with a range of Sonotube (10" and 12") and spread form sizes... I "test dug" two of the 30" dia. x 3.5' holes by hand. Soil was great, but still a lot of work. Have a skid steer booked for this upcoming weekend to make short work of it. Here's a shot of the action (don't worry, this was a corner pier, and the stakes and lines are all laid out very well and sqaure - I understand the picture looks like I'm just digging holes  :D)

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/11110024_10102680408671538_2032630272416472106_n_zpsvoolpx4v.jpg)

Hoping to get all the holes dug this weekend, forms set, and most (if not all) of the concrete poured. Would be great to have all of this done before Memorial Day.

So here's my question: All along, I've been planning to use Simpson ABU66Z for my post bases, but dang are they expensive! I'm looking at $25-30 x 19 for a total of ~$570. Seems crazy for post bases. I already purchased my anchor bolts, and I like the idea of the 1 inch standoff and flexibility that the ABU allows. Has anyone had luck with other post bases that use a pre-cast anchor bolt system? What about doing a mix of ABA66Z's and ABU66Z's? I could put the ABU's on the center and corner posts, and the cheaper, less sturdy ABA's on all others? Thoughts?

Here's another shot (bad quality) before I go. Take care, and thanks again.

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/c58dfca4-f97e-4d9d-bf81-4299b53e4519_zpsaevmsmuq.jpg)

www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)

Lots of progress this weekend. Foundation halfway poured.

On Friday, I picked up the walk-behind skid loader with a 30" auger bit. Hauling it up to the lot went well and I was able to dig five of the 19 holes before dark. Up bright and early with a friend and dug the remaining holes by 10 o'clock. Perfect timing because that's when Lowe's was planning to deliver three skids of Quikrete. I have no phone, internet or cell service up there, so I had to coordinate closely with Lowe's. Headed down to the "base" and they were about 45 minutes late, but better late than never.

Here's where things went a little south... My hope all along was that Lowe's could get all the way, or at least part way up to the lot with the material. It was about 10,000 lbs. of Quikrete, so the reason was obvious. Their truck shows up, and it's massive. Basically an 18 wheeler with a loader on the back. Delivery guy hops in my truck to scout the road and on the very first turn, he says "no way." So, all the material was dropped about 15 minutes from my actual building site. Me, two friends, three trucks and a small flatbed made two trips, picking up all the bags, basically twice (once to get in the trucks and once to pile up at the site). It was pretty terrible  :-\

We soldiered through and here's a shot of a friend on the Quikrete mountain (sorry, my phone takes some lousy pictures):
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMAG0441_zpsgu73ikof.jpg)

After moving all the concrete, I had to drive the auger back into town, pick up the cement mixer and more water. About a three hour turnaround. The Quikrete move put us way behind schedule and only got four piers poured before nightfall.

Sunday was an alone day for me, and by this point I was approaching exhaustion. Lifting those bags up to the stand mixer, in addition to all other digging, etc. was just a lot. I managed to get 5 more piers down, including four of the bigger ones (corner and mid-support). These had 30" diameter spread forms 10" thick, so the base alone took about six bags a piece.

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/8d61aa09-5c7d-46c8-97bf-5fbaebd01d83_zpsedh1pu1m.jpg)

Taken at the end of day three:
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/7fce528c-7c07-4c85-bafe-6150afecb88c_zps5cjcb8bt.jpg)

I'm planning to go up Wednesday, and again this weekend, to finish foundation work. Overall, things are going well. Just really hard work so it will that much sweeter when the foundation is complete.

That's it for now!

www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)

Hi all -

VERY happy to announce that all my concrete is poured. 11,200 pounds of Quikrete later, and I have what is hopefully a very solid foundation. The weather for the weekend was looking really poor (lots of rain) and I am planning to be out of town over Memorial Day. I wanted to wrap up the project before leaving, get the cement mixer home and just have less to worry/think about.

Yesterday, my wife and I drove up with the hope that the rain would hold, and sure enough it did. We were able to pour the remaining six piers, set the anchors and call it good. Here's a recap of the foundation work:

• 19 separate piers
• All piers are 40 inches deep
• Six piers are 12" sonotubes on top of 30" dia. spread footings with cage installed
• Six piers are 12" sonos on top of 24" dia. Redi-base kits
• Five piers are 10" sonos on top of 30" dia. spread footings (just a wire sheet in these)
• Two piers are 10" sonos on top of the 24" Redi-base kits
• All piers have three sticks of bent rebar in them

Once all the dirt was shoveled back in, things really started to look exciting. In a couple weeks I hope to start cutting timbers and work on the floor system. Here are some photos. More to come.

www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com (http://www.ouridahocabin.wordpress.com)

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/d8abde61-aa19-4b4d-99ef-4578b28b0c65_zps3cl3omfk.jpg)

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/d33bbe6a-dde3-4cee-9eee-6fb0c2a0aacf_zpsqmijjlni.jpg)

Hi folks.

After a couple weeks off, I was able to get another weekend at the land. With all the concrete poured, the goal was to set the posts and beams, and if time allowed, start laying the joists. I'll just post several pictures and you can see how the weekend went.

Checking accuracy of first beam
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150530_142802914_zpsfdu296jn.jpg)

My friend working on notching the posts
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150530_154835582_zpsrnkaoht3.jpg)

End of first day
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150530_203544213_HDR_zpsnfmvzbpm.jpg)

More framing on second day
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150531_163102004_zpsyhv6xuwk.jpg)

I'm going to attach a support to that post where the splice overran... Not sure how the beams got off there, but it's off by about a half inch.
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150531_163110102_HDR_zps2wiam9fu.jpg)

Gotta love when that happens...
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_20150530_193202405_zpsw4dms1sl.jpg)

Big takeaway: The water level was amazing. I'm so glad I made that thing. It did an amazing job getting the posts spot on with one another.

Hopefully more work/updates soon.

Cheers,
~D

Snapped this last night (back to my less-than-ideal phone camera). After a big storm. Have about half the floor framed in.

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/41336c9d-f39d-4caf-946b-342f97018d24_zpsamahi1qo.jpg)

Quote from: midrover170 on June 02, 2015, 10:24:06 AM
Snapped this last night (back to my less-than-ideal phone camera). After a big storm. Have about half the floor framed in.
--------------------------------  snip ---------------------------------------------------------------

Looking good....  LOL though that was a big storm.....  we had just fine graded the yard and it started lighting over your way and a big thunderhead rolled up over us and then over toward Danskin Mountain and we were  trapped in between..... WOW it was roaring - and lighting was shooting over the top of us back and forth your way over to Danskin.....  then here comes an other cloud not very wide and not very dark but talk about getting dumped on.  Please do not send anymore of those our way after we fine grade the yard because looks like we will be doing the fine grading again when this mess dries out......

Just a day and a half at the land this weekend - ran out of material and steam.

Minus the posts and beams, I've done all this floor framing by myself. It's a great learning experience, but sure makes it hard going (especially nailing up those 16' 2"x10" rim joists...). Came home tonight with all the joists installed for the main cabin structure. I was really excited to also get the posts cut and notched for the deck. Next weekend I'm hoping to either start on the subfloor or frame out the deck, or both. More to come, but in the meantime, some more photos below.

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/Framing_001_zpsaeksycpx.jpg)


Support system for the deck on the right. Will clean up the beam once the framing is finished.
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/Framing_003_zps4qp4wg34.jpg)


(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/Framing_004_zps4qzu4fd2.jpg)


Looking up from the hill
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/Framing_002_zpsvgg7xs7v.jpg)


Taken as I drove off for the evening. The deck beam kind of makes an optical illusion.
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/Framing_005_zpskzzsjtrt.jpg)

Looks great.  I am enjoying watching your build.  How far of a drive is it to your cabin?  Our property is only 34 miles from our house but it takes an hour to get there.  Living close will sure make it easier when the time comes to build.

Thanks. It takes me about an hour to drive there. Not too bad, and just close enough that I can go during the week and work an evening or two. Our goal was someplace within an hour and a half, and that's one reason why. As the crow flies the property is only 12 miles from us, but roads in Idaho don't work that way.

Installed the subfloor this weekend - ready for walls!

About 80% of my time was spent installing all the ties/straps/hangers and blocking before the subfloor went on. I had four different rows of blocking (three above beams and one mid joist span). Also installed H1/H2 straps throughout and upside down joist hangers along the edge that will have the deck ledger board attached. It was a long process, but I know very important and well worth it.

I was able to get all the subfloor cut and installed with 20 sheets (my lower level footprint is about 550sf.). It was great to see everything going in so square and straight. Made me feel good about all the work that had gone into the foundation and floor system. I'd like to frame the deck in over the coming week, and the framing crew may be coming up sooner than I expected to frame in the shell. Lots of progress. More of a writeup on the blog.

(https://ouridahocabin.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/framing_006_1.jpg)

(https://ouridahocabin.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/framing_007.jpg)

(https://ouridahocabin.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/framing_008.jpg)

(https://ouridahocabin.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/framing_009.jpg)

(https://ouridahocabin.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/framing_010.jpg)

The only question I have is why the up side down joist hangers? They are carrying no load, which is their purpose.

Hi there,

Quote from: dmanley on June 15, 2015, 07:19:23 AM
The only question I have is why the up side down joist hangers? They are carrying no load, which is their purpose.

My joists cantilever past the beam here. The joist hangers are installed upside down, not to help with carrying load from the joists but to strengthen the rim joist/joist connection. Makes it much harder for the rim joist to fail with no support from below. I'm planning a 24' ledger for a deck along this face as well, so the added strength is welcomed. I have to give a shout out to Don_P on the forum for bringing this detail to my attention.

Made some stairs over the weekend. Needed to get in place before framers start on the 9th. My first time building stairs, so I spent a lot of time studying beforehand. Went with cut stringers, three of them, under 2x6 redwood. Footing was a big slab of Arizona sandstone. I might put a kick plate on the back eventually, but want to see how they are shoveling snow this winter. I'll be adding rails in the coming weeks. A much more descriptive write up on the blog (link in signature).

Hope you all are doing well.

Calculations...
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_9417_zps1ocntsix.jpg)

Before adding preservative... hauled that trash out this weekend too  :D
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_9423_zpss112zbs8.jpg)

Final product
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_9425_zpsffb3kqc3.jpg)

Couldn't resist...
(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_9413_zpsafwuqtnt.jpg)

Lookin good.  It was a HOT weekend to be working!  I was building a south facing deck all weekend in 104 temps - not fun. 

Quote from: CabinNick on June 30, 2015, 12:22:33 AM
Lookin good.  It was a HOT weekend to be working!  I was building a south facing deck all weekend in 104 temps - not fun.

SO hot. A lot of my framing this weekend was south facing as well. No sign of relief in the forecast...  :-\

How are your stringers attached to the joist?

Quote from: pmichelsen on June 30, 2015, 10:02:32 AM
How are your stringers attached to the joist?

That was the same thing I was trying to figure out.  I checked out your blog but don't see any further explanation (maybe I just missed it).

Looks like the top rise is very tall and is lag bolted behind the header.....

This was before all the ties were in. Added angle brackets with Simpson SDS structural screws after this... Blocking and stringers have 16d nails as well. Probably overkill.

(https://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s633/walrus170/IMG_9426_zpsizsvdipn.jpg)

There's something else in this picture that will probably raise questions... ;) For some reason, not sure why, the outer joist/header was about a 1/2 inch shy from being level with the other deck joists. Tolerances, or just being off while anchoring the skewed joist hangers, I'm not sure (btw, those skewed hangers are a bugger to nail). So, instead of prying out the hangers, I ripped 1/2" strips of PT and attached to the top to make things level. Pre-drilled all the nail holes to avoid splitting. One of those "let's make this work" solutions.

Adam, I hope your recovery is going well.

-D

That is an interesting way to support the stringers.  Would not have thought to do it like that.

Recover is going pretty well, thanks for asking.  2 weeks after the fact, I am finally allowed to be a passenger in a car... except everyone is working so nobody around to drive me anywhere.  :)  Another 2 weeks and I should be OK to drive myself around.  Starting to go a bit stir crazy... 

 [cool] That's a slick solution, nice job.
Most folks on the east coast have not seen incised wood, it shows very clearly in these pictures. When you use a span calculator it often asks whether the wood is incised and there is a strength adjustment. Most of the time where you use incised wood it is also a wet service location, another strength adjustment. Where I'm going with that thought, those 2 adjustments lowered the allowable bending strength by 30%, don't use the regular floor joist tables when sizing joists for a deck or porch.

Just one other observation, the sapwood of all species is non decay resistant, only the heartwood contains those extractives. If you're using redwood for the floor pick through his stacks hard.

I did alot of drawing while recovering, I guess building blocks with what's available  ;D

Thanks, Don.

Interesting what you say about incised wood. Why is it so unused out East? I've recently been spinning my wheels trying to track down smooth pressure treated lumber - much better for painting and staining. However, most yards here have to special order it and it's $$$.

I did account for its weaknesses on my spans (the 30% reductions). I'm still well within reason on my front porch and back deck. I do worry that the incise marks will collect water (heard they're good at this) and lead to faster rot... We shall see. Stuff isn't cheap so I hope it lasts a good while. You'll be happy to hear that I ordered 6x6 posts for my deck porch, and an extra beefy 5 1/8" x 13 1/2" glulam to hold it all up.  :D

Incising is used to help the treatment chemicals penetrate into woods that don't accept treatment well.  That unfortunately is most western woods. It is not as good a treatment but you all tend to be drier than the east. Douglas Fir is what you'll get mostly, which is the western high strength framing wood. On the east coast the group of southern pines is what is most commonly treated. Its' cell structure is made up of long hollow tubes that accept treatment readily, so it doesn't require incising. Because of the ectractives in heartwood that I mentioned last post, the cells within the heartwood are blocked and do not accept treatment.* When I'm buying treated lumber I'm looking for exactly the opposite of what I told you when you're looking at a naturally decay resistant species, I want predominantly sapwood because the treating chemicals can penetrate the sapwood and not the heartwood. Foundation grade treated lumber is all saps for this reason.

You can run strips of vycor or similar flashing tape on the top of the joists to help keep water out of that upper edge.

*A tree has a vertical vascular system in the sapwood that carries nutrients and food up and down the stem from roots to leaves. It also has a horizontal vascular system that radiates like the spokes on a wheel from heart to bark, these are the rays that are readily visible in woods like oak. That beautiful flecking in white oak arts and crafts furniture is quartersawn (radially sawn)along the plane of the rays. The saw exposes the wide faces of those horizontal ray cells. A tree is a living, breathing, thing. It's gotta go somewhere. The spent sugars and chemicals created in the process of converting water and carbon dioxide into simple sugars, then to starch, then to cellulose and the host of other chemicals required to make a tree, all the byproducts have to go somewhere. The tree uses the medullary rays to move that "stuff" in to the dying cells in the heart of the tree... or that last use of those cells is what kills the heartwood, there is, or was, debate on where the chicken and the egg occur there. In some trees those extractives also contain compounds that inhibit decay fungi or repel insects. In a few trees the extractive content is so high that the wood cannot shrink very much, the cells are packed so full that they cannot freely shrink, black locust, teak.

It is funny, SYP grows just south of me, at the foot of the Blue Ridge and down through FL and TX, yet it is easiest for me to get Canadian framing lumber and for awhile eurotrash made inroads here. Yet I pay a premium for Dougfir and you pay a premium for SYP, I get the feeling that somewhere in there a fat man is dancing and we're paying the fiddler.

Off the cuff that sounds like plenty of carry beam. If you haven't done so it might be good to check the load at each end of that beam plus the tributary area of floor at that post against the footing size.

Growing up in the PNW, I was taught that incised lumber was treated and somehow came to the conclusion that all treated lumber was incised, though I didn't think of it as being incised, it's just the way it was.  When I moved to VA 20 years ago, I was shocked and horrified at how many decks, sheds, and other structures weren't built with "treated" lumber... it took a while to realize that not all treated lumber was incised.  I still have an involuntary "cringe" when I see treated lumber without that visual queue.

One of the more stressful days of my project is behind me: the framing material has been delivered to the site.

I rented a 22' stake bed (Freightliner FL70) and was able to squeeze everything on one load:

25 - 2'x4"x8'
60 - 2'x6"x8'
60 - 2"x6"x10'
45 - 2"x6"x12'
30 - 2"x6"x16'
35 - 2"x8"x10'
10- 2x10x10'
15- 2x10x14'
38 - 2"x12"x20'
2 - Glulam support beams
12 - 4x4x12 redwood posts
2 - 6x6x10 Doug Fir posts   
85 - 7/16" OSB

The rig was a 6-speed manual, which was a bit of a shock. I've driven stick for years, but not something that weighs close to 14 tons. My site is up a long, narrow and steep mountain road, so it was going to be a challenge. All worked out well though, and with a couple guys helping, all was unloaded in two hours. Here are some pictures of the adventure.

The full load
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20' rafters
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The 18' Glulam, buddy wishing he signed up for something else.
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Empty truck
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Lots of (somewhat slow) progress. Framing crew was really derailed by all the rake wall work and the 20ft. rafters. Took about five days more than they expected. One more day and it will all be done. I've been helping as much as I can, while still working 40 hour weeks...

Other good news is that USFS visited today to clear out some beetle kill on the edge of the property. Took down five massive trees and totally changed our view (for the better). Exhausted. More to come.

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Father-in-law enjoying the view:
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I haven't updated in a long while! I just got out of the clinic getting stitches in my finger (bike brake rotor sliced me good  d*). There's a splint on my finger, so instead of typing everything, I'll mostly copy the update from the blog:

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Roof
Prior to the install, I worked with Treasure Valley Steel to get the material. They had the Cor-ten metal we wanted, but needed to sort though a few options. Originally, we were going to use 1″ standing seam metal panels, but didn't realize that style can't have overlaps. In other words, we'd have to get one long (approx. 40 feet) piece of metal to cover the roof. Since it would be impossible to haul something so long up our roads, we changed over to a 3/8″s corrugated metal roof. These overlap nicely, and allowed us to purchase three 14 foot sections to cover the roof. I also ordered Cor-ten edge trim that would cover about half of the cedar fascia board that I installed.

The roofing crew came up on a Saturday and started right in with removing the asphalt paper that was installed prior. Roofer recommended (due to our low slope) that we apply an ice and water shield over the entire roof. This would give us great leak protection – much better than the asphalt paper. It was an added expense I was happy to accept. Paper came off very fast and the ice and water shield went on just as fast.

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It was impressive seeing how fast the roof went on. With the first course installed and lined up, the remaining two courses went on easily. Crew used a hole punch to make screwing easier (used a 1 1/2″ screw to really bite into the plywood decking below). Right now the roof still has a raw metal look. It won't start rusting until we get rain. With the year we've had so far, that might be awhile. So many fires in the Northwest, and the area is currently just clogged with smoke.

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Windows
The following week, our windows were installed. We decided on Integrity by Marvin windows, which have a fiberglass exterior and wood interior (untreated pine). Most of the windows are side gliders, but there are three awning style windows and one casement by the front door.

The install went well, mostly. One window for the loft had a broken sill and wasn't able to be installed. I have some questions about the flashing that was done at the top. Normally, you'd cut back the house wrap (which I did) and then lap that over the tap layer of window tape. The install crew didn't do this and it's a bit worrisome as a future leak issue. When they come back with the loft window, they may redo that portion.

Otherwise, we're really happy with the look. The layout/placement also seems to work well for creating a nice breeze inside. Once the walls are sheetrocked and trimmed the windows will really pop. The star of the show is the 8 foot sliding french door. We placed this in the living room area and it's perfect for letting in a ton of light and providing a great view.

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Misc
Other projects include the exterior doors and decking. Front door was a fiberglass door from Builder's Choice and back was a steel door from Steve and Sons (both Craftsman style, budget-minded options from the Depot). Painted the front door a bright yellow with a brass handle set. Really like how that turned out. Back door still needs stairs, and some paint.

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I FINALLY got all of the main deck installed. That was such a long process, but it looks great. Haven't stained the last boards, and will put a little cedar trim around the bottom of the main support posts.

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Saturday evening, we were winding down and about to go for a walk when we heard someone calling to us. It was a neighbor coming to let us know that a fire had started over the distant ridge in the Robie Creek area. It was small and there were several fire crews, but we were told we should be ready to evacuate just in case. This was our first experience going through these emotions, and it was/is pretty unnerving. I started scrambling around trying to get any debris away from burn areas. Got the chainsaw out and cut down two somewhat large trees that were close to the build. They needed to go anyway, but this was good reason to finally do it. We decided to pack up early and head down, especially since we have no phone/internet yet and can't get updates. On the way out, the local VFD said that the fire was pretty much contained and not a threat. Apparently it's still burning, but hoping it'll be addressed soon. Wishing we had that concrete siding on...

I'll try to update more often  :D Installing some plumbing and wiring this weekend.

Your cabin is looking great.  I share you emotions of having to worry about a forest fire for the first time.  We finally bought our dream property in April this year and it has been threatened for the last two weeks by a forest fire.  The fire is small compared to many of them burning around us but it over 10,000 acres now and only 5 miles away.  Some of the other large fires in our area have traveled over 10 miles in a day so it is definitely a helpless feeling.  Let's hope for rain soon to put this horrible fire season to bed!

More progress. My life has been taken over by insulation, which has taken WAY longer than I ever expected. So excited for it to be done and for sheetrock to begin on the 28th-ish.

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Chimney support box
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R-30 in the ceiling. .4 mil vapor barrier is next.
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Loft and bedroom
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Set the shower, nothing fancy.
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This reminds that it's all worth it...
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Oh, and I finally framed in the deck roof. This is just before the rafters were strapped, so a couple are a little off.

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I'm going to pick a little for the edification of others to follow. The entire birdsmouth seat cut should bear on the carry beam, or top plate of a wall for a conventional rafter. In other words the level seat cut should not extend inboard of the bearing edge the way these do, it can cause the rafter to split under a heavy snow load. Or another way to say it, the birdsmouth should not be wider than whatever it is sitting on. Current code also limits the depth of the notch to 1/4 of rafter depth.

Hey Don,

You can pin that one on my dad...  >:(

He was out helping for a few days, made a pattern for cutting the rafters and by the time I got around to checking the work that's the way they were. Thinking of a plate to strengthen that spot? Thoughts?  It was great having some help, but now I have a little extra work. Thanks for pointing that out for others.

If you are going to do a level ceiling then knit the rafter and ceiling joist together well in that area. That would avoid the problem of how to deal with the ceiling in that zone. If the ceiling is sloped I'd be tempted to try something like a double layer of 2x4's ledgerlocked to the main beam and wrapped as a decorative heavy trim.

Quote from: Don_P on September 22, 2015, 06:11:11 AM
If you are going to do a level ceiling then knit the rafter and ceiling joist together well in that area. That would avoid the problem of how to deal with the ceiling in that zone. If the ceiling is sloped I'd be tempted to try something like a double layer of 2x4's ledgerlocked to the main beam and wrapped as a decorative heavy trim.

If I understand you Don, you're saying to beef up the outer edge of the beam so that the rafters can't flex downward under load? I can do that and even have some leftover ledgerlocks. What about splicing OSB on either side of the rafter at that point, running about 24" long with 1.5" Simpson screws throughout? Just throwing that out there because I have A LOT of OSB scraps needing a purpose other than the landfill.

Thanks,
D

You understand, as the rafter flexes that unsupported short grain wants to run a split up the rafter. Anything you do to move the support towards the building and supporting the rafter where it is deeper is going to help. That is the best slope of notch to have if you are going to have an overnotch.

For the connections in the sideplates to do much good they need to be in the same area that wants to split, for that reason I wouldn't. If you do I would lean more towards a slew of staples rather than a few larger diameter fasteners, lower the tension perpendicular to grain from the fastener prying a hole open.

Cheers, Don. Thanks for the help.

I'm just excited to work outside again after four weekends of insulation work.

Been busy.

Few pictures from the project. Winter has been difficult with the amount of snow in the area. Many of the locals say it's the most, wettest, heaviest snow in ~30 years. Good news: the cabin soldiered right through. Our plow agreement was the worst dilemma. The operator kind of put us at the back of the list and wasn't able to clear the road for 5 weeks after the first snow fall (about 5 feet total). When they did make it, it took about 13 hours... Got to be a better way in the future.

I've shifted my efforts to the interior. Setting cabinets, installing floor, painting, etc. A few months back I got good news that I'll become a father this year (~July). That changed the timeline/priority for a lot of projects. 2016 is going to be more limited, with a push to get septic, cistern and propane installed. Not much else on the agenda other than that.

Cheers.

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Looking great.  It seems like it just won't stop snowing this year!  We have 52" on the ground at our property not far west of you in Oregon.

I have been thinking about how to be able to plow the road into our place when we get the cabin built.  After seeing how deep the snow is I am starting to think a plow is not a viable option; probably need to be thinking about a snowblower instead. 

The good thing is that this year is a good reminder for us to design our cabin with snow loads and snow dropping off the roof in mind.  We passed a 100 year old farmhouse last weekend that has weathered many years of heavy snow but this winter finally did in the roof above their front porch. 

Good luck.

Thanks, Nick.

It's been a good year for snow! The rivers needed it so I'm happy about it. I think my plow situation would have gone better had the operator not been overwhelmed. The snow was so heavy it was breaking equipment and nearly impossible to keep up with. They've committed to putting down some gravel and doing a little grading where things got kind of nasty.

It's made me think a lot about my future approach. Snowmobile? Same arrangement as now? Neighbor who seems more than happy to keep us plowed with a tractor that's on the way? Access is really important as it maintains our insurance coverage during the winter. Say, if we were to go the snowmobile route, we'd be up the creek if something were to happen. I think I like the snowmobile/plow combo most. A few weekends I haven't been able to get any work done because it snows on a Thursday or Friday. If I had a snowmobile stashed up there at my neighbors, I could still get in and out while waiting for the plow to come. Perfect situation: Have my own tractor! But, that's just a pipe dream right now. :P

I had a lot of people laugh at me when I explained my structural plan - especially on the roof system. Boy am I happy I didn't change anything. Looking at your area I'd say you'd be wise to build strong as well. Looking forward to seeing your build come together.

- D

Hopeful we will get a pretty slow melt and allow the springs and marshes to recharge. 

We still have well over a foot to eighteen inches over here on this side of the mountain.....  Why is the insurance company concerned if the roads are snowed shut?  Did they explain?  That is sort of contrary to what most cabin owners around here want.  But then they unload their snow machines here on my place and ride on up to their little village.  Or wait for April and they usually and drive right in.  Elmore county plows to my and the neighbors roads.  If they are busy I have told them I can plow out to the main county road with my tractor or the fourwheeler.  Fourwheeler is a 650 with tires that do hook up nice and can throw snow.  Really it is funny what I can plow with my fourwheeler but living up here I can get right on it.  I do fire up the big tractor with the wedge plow on the front....  the parking areas I throw the snow off with the walk behind snow plow bigest Ariens snowblower I could find. Heated hand grips and everything....... ;)

Right now we are starting to sort of wishing it away and wanting more! I am thinking and dreaming the orchard and the garden.  We have so much snow around the house off the eves we can not see out on the sides.... :D

 

Looking great.  Love the view from the deck :)

Quote from: rick91351 on February 04, 2016, 01:07:25 PM
Why is the insurance company concerned if the roads are snowed shut?  Did they explain?

Hi Rick. We were told by insurance co. that the road needs to be accessible year round to maintain coverage. The scenario they provided was simple: a winter fire and no option for local VFD to respond. Certainly a winter fire would be user error, but my wife is a worrier.

Was wondering how much snow you still had in your area. As I said, I'm really happy for it but already hungry for some springtime weather! What's on your radar this year? Your place is mostly finished, right? I'm a little nervous about my septic process. Hope my building pad has enough area to make it simple and that the inspector doesn't give me grief for not having a well. We shall see. I have 6 acres to play with, but only about .5 to build on  :D

Quote from: OlJarhead on February 04, 2016, 01:38:06 PM
Looking great.  Love the view from the deck :)

Thanks! I'm getting ready for hammock season.

PS - Glad you made it through that brutal fire season. That was a real doozy and i'm sure very, very stressful for you.

Ya, I am starting to think the only realistic option for us is going to be a snowmobile towing a sled.  I had not thought about any insurance ramifications, will have to look into that.  Regardless of the time of the year, with how remote we are if there is a fire in our cabin it will burn to the ground before any firefighters get there. 

Hopefully all this snow means a more reasonable fire season next year.  Last year was a little hard to stomach.  Several months after purchasing our property we had a 10,000+ acre fire 4 miles to the north of us.  Just when we thought we were in the clear we had another 10,000+ acre fire start 4 miles to the south of us.  Guess we will have a good fire break in the future from other large fires....

Quote from: CabinNick on February 05, 2016, 12:13:06 AM
Ya, I am starting to think the only realistic option for us is going to be a snowmobile towing a sled.  I had not thought about any insurance ramifications, will have to look into that.  Regardless of the time of the year, with how remote we are if there is a fire in our cabin it will burn to the ground before any firefighters get there. 

Hopefully all this snow means a more reasonable fire season next year.  Last year was a little hard to stomach.  Several months after purchasing our property we had a 10,000+ acre fire 4 miles to the north of us.  Just when we thought we were in the clear we had another 10,000+ acre fire start asses 4 miles to the south of us.  Guess we will have a good fire break in the future from other large fires....

If you are very remote it is doubtful you are in a fire district for what that is worth.  We are not in one and insurance is underwritten as such.  I am a firm believer in fire set backs. Often times one can contact the USFS and have them drop by and assess your cabin or house spot and how to make it fire safe.  You might spend a few hours raking and cutting bush every weekend for a while but pays off in the long run.  Our ranch has dodged a couple huge fires over the years. I will say one was knocking at the door, one was a couple miles away then made a run for us from the other direction. After you have been through a couple of those you really start looking at cabin or house site management a lot different.

Not being pessimistic at all - but usually heavy snows and heavy spring rains lead to a lot of forest fuels.... which leads to the second or third week of July on to mid September pacing the floor and hoping that the lighting storms pass you by.   ;D  Just sayin'         

Quote from: midrover170 on February 04, 2016, 01:45:07 PM
Thanks! I'm getting ready for hammock season.

PS - Glad you made it through that brutal fire season. That was a real doozy and i'm sure very, very stressful for you.

Thanks, and yes very stressful!  Now let's hope all this years snow translates into NO fires this summer!!!

Quote from: CabinNick on February 05, 2016, 12:13:06 AM
Ya, I am starting to think the only realistic option for us is going to be a snowmobile towing a sled.  I had not thought about any insurance ramifications, will have to look into that.  Regardless of the time of the year, with how remote we are if there is a fire in our cabin it will burn to the ground before any firefighters get there. 

Hopefully all this snow means a more reasonable fire season next year.  Last year was a little hard to stomach.  Several months after purchasing our property we had a 10,000+ acre fire 4 miles to the north of us.  Just when we thought we were in the clear we had another 10,000+ acre fire start 4 miles to the south of us.  Guess we will have a good fire break in the future from other large fires....

Dirt is good :)

One of my neighbors treats the ground around his cabin and keeps it down to dirt in the dry months.  He's also removed any close trees and fuel and finally, stores a LOT of water in large feeders.  He uses rain water and fills 1000 gallon pool like feeders with water.  Many others do the same thing (store rainwater or use well water in the wet months to fill barrels etc with water).  The theory being that if the cabin is saveable the fire fighters will try and with the extra water on hand it can't hurt.

A firefighter last year told me "if it is well prepared we will do our best to save it".

Oregon has some very strict land use lawns and regulations for siting buildings in the forest.  We have to design our driveway and turnaround to handle any type of fire equipment, have to have all trees cleared from the cabin site and a fuel free buffer, metal roof and a water source for fire fighting to be able to get our permit.  After seeing last year's fire season I am all for it.

We are developing a spring and then having a small solar pump to pump it uphill to a 1000' gallon tank uphill from the cabin. 

Hello.  I was wondering how much your load of lumber was.  Im getting ready to start getting numbers.  I will post what my wife and I are getting ready to build soon.  This is a great restore I'm very excited about this forum

Thanks Matt
Where did you get you lumber?

Moving ahead on several projects. Bathroom tile is in, countertops are installed, and I started working on the deck railing. Having fun with the railing as it's good to be working with lumber again. I'm playing with a few ideas for the top... will post more pictures of that soon.

Our septic permit was issued last week  :) I was more than worried about that, but it worked out nicely and I'm really pleased with the system design and where it will go on the property. Hoping to have it set in place in about two weeks. 1,000 gallon concrete tank, 8ft. wide drain trench (with 24" depth of drain rock), two 43ft. pipes. Drain field is actually going on the top of the slope north of the cabin. No vehicles driving over it at all.

The blog has a bit more information if you'd like to keep reading.

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Looking great!  Glad your septic worked out.  We just turned in our septic soil test pit application today - $780 just to test the soil! Ouch. 

Enjoy the good weather.