Plans Change, and now I'm starting with a 12 X 12

Started by JavaMan, April 20, 2010, 12:37:41 PM

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MountainDon

#250
Quote....the code specifies 3 2x6's which ....

Let's re -read that table. That looks to be for southern pine (top of table 3). Two things likely wrong with that; (1) Is there SP up there in WA? Not likely is my guess. Not with all the native timber species there and next door in Canada.  (2) ...partly my fault... the tables have not yet been corrected for the downrating that is to occur in June. SP ain't what it used to be. The stuff on the shelves today is the same as it will be in July and it doesn't measure up to the old numbers.  So let's forget about SP as it more likely is not available there and if it is it is not really up to the specs in that table. Rather than get out the Fb, etc charts and run some numbers of the new SP values let's assume one of the other species will be used.

Down a few rows in table 3 are the spans for Doug Fir, Larch, Hem-Fir, SPF, Ponderosa and a few others, all of which you likely have available.  Three 2x6 of those comes up with a beam span of 7-4, more than a little short of the 9 feet. That's for floor joist span up to 6 feet.  Three 2x8, a 4x10 or two 2x12 all do 9 feet or better.  Keep in mind that being a place where folks gather a deck can be loaded more heavily than an indoor living space floor. The tables assume LL=40 psf with a DL=10 psf. Allowing for more may not be a bad idea.

At least that is my take on that.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.

MountainDon

I thought I should add, those tables are for decks. Decks don't have roofs. That's a porch. If there is a roof that's extra load (incl snow) and the deck guidelines are not applicable with any accuracy.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


JavaMan

Quote from: MountainDon on March 28, 2013, 08:56:44 PM
I thought I should add, those tables are for decks. Decks don't have roofs. That's a porch. If there is a roof that's extra load (incl snow) and the deck guidelines are not applicable with any accuracy.

That's my poor drawing skills... that roof is the dimension line (I was just to lazy to put arrows at the ends and a space in the middle for the measurment)  ;D

My issue is that I don't have the 8" (or more) to put in there without making it step UP from the doorway... or slope pretty steeply towards the house. d*

Ok, just went out and looked at it again and I can get an extra couple inches. unfortunately it isn't a nice even 7.5" or 9.5" (for 2x8's or 2x10's) ... of course, I suppose I could go ahead and cut a piece of 6x6 post and notch it to take the 3 2x's to make up the 1.5 " on the one end ... I'm thinking that's what I'm going to have to do.

And somehow I wound up with and extra 10' PT 6x6 ... I thought I had it made!  Now I have to go buy 3 2x8's  :-[

Thanks Don - it just took a bit of thinking through.  Which is one reason I'm not rushing this job....


OlJarhead

Doug Fir is what we use up here :)

In fact, not sure I ever saw dimensional lumber in anything else in the NW.

MountainDon

Use a third center post and the depth of the beam decreases.  ?
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn't mean it is good design.


JavaMan

WOW! I can't believe it's been since March!

Anyway ... I have pictures of the project that has been keeping me occupied.  And here's a teaser... from last September... when the story begins....



Our hero is not simply sitting on his behind loafing, but rather is starting to pull the old deck apart.

This is what it looked like at the start:



When finished, this part will no longer be deck:



Looking out the front door after a day or so:



Hmmm... Boards not long enough? We can fix that! ???



It's interesting to see how things were done just over 50  years ago... d*

JavaMan

Sadly, there aren't any photos of the disassembly of that front set of steps.  In part because they were falling apart as I was trying to take the boards off!

Frankly, they were an accident waiting to happen.

Ahhh, supplies.  I love a pile of lumber in the morning...



You can see what was left of the stairs up on the landing and down the hill.

Watch that first step, it's a doozy!



Construction begins ... finally.  The first pour



And then we found this...



Rotten ends...  The joists were rotting ... but only where they were sticking out from under the eaves... apparently the "Lifetime" warranty on this lumber was for a lifetime less than 50 years.


JavaMan

October 13: Out intrepid hero is working hard pouring a couple more footers and trimming off the j-bolt for the post footer.



October 19: The solution to the rot was to cut the joists off just under the eaves, put in two additional footers, posts, and beam to support their ends.  Then add additional joists out to where the ends were supposed to be, put in posts and beams there.



The view from underneath:



From the front:



I'm not sure where the time went, but by November 24th, this was where the project was:



Obviously I didn't make it to completion by Thanksgiving...  I had to grind out some channels in the concrete stairs that the new steps were going on top of so that the risers would work the way they were intended to.








rick91351

WOW You have been busy feller.......................

I have been wondering what the heck has happened to you.  I almost sent the posse looking for you. 

Keep up the great work.... [cool]  Blessings Rick

Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.


JavaMan

Thanks Rick!

So having failed to make Thanksgiving, I shifted to hopefully finish by Christmas...

Here is where I was on December 23rd



First one rail, then the next...



Apparently there's another camera around here with more pictures of the completion of the railings, etc... of that front deck - and of the destruction of the deck along the front of the  house (to the left of the deck in the previous pics).

And I thought we had pictures of the deck around the corner past the kitchen, but apparently, after taking a break from Jan to April sometime I worked so fast Beautiful was unable to get any pictures of that!

Got the old deck torn down, the footers poured, and the columns as well!



Looking from the kitchen door (on the right edge of the photo) it would seem that some of the columns weren't aligned properly.  It was all an optical illusion which I couldn't convince Beautiful of until the deck was completed!



The posts and beam left were eventually removed, but had to be left there to hold up the heat/air pump wiring and piping. Not to worry about the mess on the site ... it all got cleaned up.  You'll have to remember that this was done about 99.5 % by a 57 year old man ... my 16 YO step son hauled some of the concrete bags for me, and dug about 2 of the footers, but that's about it.

Then the fun begins - this was may 16th.  Don't be fooled, it was one of only a hand full of sunny days...









JavaMan

A few days later:



Things go much faster when you're not pouring concrete and digging holes... ;D

My two building inspectors:





June 1st:  We can now come and go through the kitchen again! [cool]



Looking from "below":





JavaMan

June 14th... this is essentially an "addition" to the deck from what used to be there previously.  This part is 12x10:





And this is a great project to be doing to add to the toolset.  A 12" compound sliding miter saw was my addition to my tools in this part of the project (I added the cement mixer in the first part  :D)

I did the first part with a 10" (non-sliding) saw, and some of the cuts were truly difficult.  The new saw let me cut diagonals with one cut on the 5.5" deck board, and the 7.5" fascia boards.

Same section with the boarder boards on:



A look at the spot where the hot tube is going to go:



Our hero finally putting railings up.  The big tall post is there to hold up what I'm calling a "Sun Roof".  A few light rafters and some clear corrugated plastic "roofing" from the house to a support from this post to a post just below where the picture cuts off:



This last picture was on July 3rd.

JavaMan

Fast forward to the 21st ...





Enjoying the fruits of our labors...

I have to credit Beautiful with finding those lights on the rail post tops.  Less than $10 each!  The best price I could find for others was between $15 and $20 each.  Plain wood post caps are around $10 ea for Pete's sake!

The "Sun Roof" is yet to be finished because she wants to paint the house, and I figure that will be easier before I put the rafters up for that.

The next step is actually to fix a small leak in the hot tub, grade the area where it goes and move it into place.  Along with that, a bench needs building and installing.

This weekend I'm doing a bunch of site cleanup.  Getting rid of scrap lumber, and generally getting the trash off the site so we can return to a normal life.



JavaMan

Thanks! Just got back from the big orange box store with wire and a GFCI outdoor outlet and box to wire it up for the hot tub.  Then I have to deal with grading the area where the tub goes and building it up to the right hight.

All that and more I'm trying to get done today before I go sit in the hot tub for a while and soothe these achy bones and muscles.  ;D

I've got a few projects around here I'm trying to get done as a surprise for Beautiful.

JavaMan

So this time the plans have *really* changed!  :D

We have decided to sell the acreage and purchase some that is situated a bit better, with water of some sort and better access.  d*

It's listed (been listed about 6 weeks ago).

I have very mixed feelings about it because I truly love the views and how far "off grid" it is.  But... and it's a big but ... the road in is impassable about 5 months of the year unless you're snow-mobiling... even 4WD won't get it done.  And there just is no "easy" water.  I've explored a number of options and while I could drill, the estimates that I get from the local well drillers make me think that either they think I'm rich because I'm from the wet side, or the water really is 300-400 feet down (or more), even tho there are a number of signs that it's close to the surface in some places.

But the largest issue is the road in  - it's just unusable 6 months of the year.  If it was just me, I'd probably work with it, but it's not me.

So... we're keeping our options open.  Once it sells, I plan on purchasing something quickly.  20 acres+ ... preferably 40+ ... and it might just be a bit further east... out of the high desert area ... yeah that means Spokane area or Northern ID.

So.  There you have it.

That's the latest news from here

JavaMan

Wow ... over a year!

Finally went back up - no, it hasn't sold.  And I'm reconsidering that, anyway

I discovered that one of the pastors of my church is just crazy enough to climb up on the roof of my building and help finish it up - so we went up this last weekend.  Didn't get a thing done other than a tarp over it.  sigh.  We planned to get it done, but events conspired and after running back down the mountain twice - once because a tire on the truck was hissing at us - we decided that we were simply going to put a tarp over it.

But, we're planning on going back and attacking it to get it done

OlJarhead

Quote from: JavaMan on September 29, 2014, 02:49:17 PM
Wow ... over a year!

Finally went back up - no, it hasn't sold.  And I'm reconsidering that, anyway

I discovered that one of the pastors of my church is just crazy enough to climb up on the roof of my building and help finish it up - so we went up this last weekend.  Didn't get a thing done other than a tarp over it.  sigh.  We planned to get it done, but events conspired and after running back down the mountain twice - once because a tire on the truck was hissing at us - we decided that we were simply going to put a tarp over it.

But, we're planning on going back and attacking it to get it done

Glad to hear it!  When will you be going back?  Perhaps we can do lunch when you do, after all it's easy for me to decide to work in Omak ;)  We could get lunch at The Breadline which is a great place to eat.  Then, of course, should you need a place to visit and relax my place is always open ;)

JavaMan

Well, it would be great to get back up there by mid-October, but I fear that the probability of it happening this year might be a little slim.  The last time I was up there in October it was snowing... (see my profile picture) - I left early thinking I might get snowed in.  That plus the financial planning may just be a bit of a problem.

The good part is that I have all the materials purchased already for the next trip.  The bad part is that if I hadn't had extra available, I might have had a few issues this time - especially if I'd had to replace the tire instead of a $10.50 repair at wally world.

We got to the property Saturday morning, and spend an hour or so showing him the place ... then unloaded and fired up the generator and cut the pieces for the roof.  He was going to send his son up with the nail gun to nail them in place, when I discovered that someone (like me) had taken the fitting off the hose and I didn't have one.  So we threw the valuable stuff into the truck and headed to HD to get one.  I got about 100 feet and remembered that I hadn't strapped the compressor back in and stopped to check on it - it had tipped over, but it looked ok.

Got back up the hill and unloaded ... was about to get it all set to go when I noticed that the compressor had leaked about half the oil out.  Not from damage, but through the fill spout.  Then his son was walking past the truck and heard the light hissing of the tire.  So back down the mountain we went again - this time a bit faster than before - trying to get to a place that AAA would come to, if it came to that.  Got to WalMart (since they were the only ones with a tire dept open by then) go tit fixed, grabbed some dinner (since by the time we got back up it would be too dark to cook) and headed back up.

Set up the tent in the dark and hit the sack.

The other great news was that the Genny started on the first pull.

Basically, another trip up would simply be gas and food, so it might happen yet.  I have to see if momma says the budget can stand it.  If it does happen, we're going to bring more guys, too.  One of his older kids is an actual carpenter.  So I've warned him to tell him not to laugh when he sees this place. :-)

I hope I can get back up there this year yet, but temps, weather, and money seem to be conspiring against that.

If it happens, I'll let you know! 


JavaMan

Well, it did happen!

Went up this last weekend.  My friend from church, his 12 yo and another friend of his.  Got up there about 8 am on Saturday and set to work.

First thing was the three of them started working on the roof - put up the pieces we cut last time.

While they did that, I went to work overlaying the floor on the 1st level, since it had been exposed to the weather for the last 3 (maybe 4?) seasons.  I put "tar paper" down and then another layer of OSB.  The floor is nice and stable now with no worries of anyone falling through.  Sweet.

They finished the sheathing on the roof, and then we (they) put the roofing paper up there. About 1/2 way through the job, I made lunch.  They took a break and worked with the young one on firearms safety and such.  After lunch, it was back to work as tehy finished up the roof, and then I suggested we start wrapping the house.

The plan is to wrap the house with roofing paper and put cedar over it horizontally that I've cut lap joints into.  In talking with someone I know that is an actual carpenter (I only pretend to be one sometimes), he waid that the tar paper would work much better than Tyvek with the cedar, since the Tyvek rots in contact with cedar where tar paper won't.

We managed to get 1 and 3/4 outside walls done before we ran out of staples!  I would have thought that 1500 staples would have been a great plenty.

The good thing is, though, that the roof wil be protected for the winter now, and then in the spring I can actually begin to finish it.  It make such a difference to have a helper.

I'll accumulate the cedar boards over the winter, cut the laps as I get them, and be ready in the spring to put them up - unless I can find a quad or snowmobile for cheap.

OlJarhead

Pics?

So glad to hear you are back at it!   [cool]

As for last weekend, I was milling all day Saturday and am a good hour from you so visting will be tough when we're both hard at it ;)  Best bet is to plan a lunch/dinner on the 1st  day/night or the last...perhaps we can arrange something in the spring.

Either way, very exciting!  You will soon have a safe and secure cabin to sit in during the winter with a nice wood stove warming it up so the misses is happy ;)

JavaMan

Quote from: OlJarhead on October 14, 2014, 03:41:38 PM
Pics?

So glad to hear you are back at it!   [cool]

As for last weekend, I was milling all day Saturday and am a good hour from you so visting will be tough when we're both hard at it ;)  Best bet is to plan a lunch/dinner on the 1st  day/night or the last...perhaps we can arrange something in the spring.

Either way, very exciting!  You will soon have a safe and secure cabin to sit in during the winter with a nice wood stove warming it up so the misses is happy ;)

Yeah, I know - pics or it didn't happen ... d*  But it did - I have a crummy cellphone pic of the sheathing, but forgot to take a pic of the paper being on it.  We were moving way to fast ... it was good.

Yeah, we'll have to set up a meet on the way in or out sometime ... probably on the way in when I need to stop and get something from HD or Wally world.

As for sitting in it in the winter, that I need to get some transportation in since beyond the county road, it is probably going to be closed by the end of October ... been looking at snowmobiles (but trying to get someone to reply to an email around here is like pulling teeth!)  I'd love to get a quad (it would have more utility), but that's a bit more expensive.  We'll see.

But yes, it is exciting to get back at it - and if I can figure out how to get up there in the snow, I will be up there a couple times this winter trying to finish it - maybe even a long weekend, rather than simply Sat & Sun

JavaMan

The guys that I have helping me from my church are crazy! They are bugging me to go back up there and work some more.   d*

My problem right now is budget.  I made the mistake of going to the dentist and learned of a LOT of dental work I need ... cost? Way more than I want to spend.... but then again, it is my health.

So, I'm thinking of trying somehow to get up there after the 1st of the year.  I'm hoping to find a quad or snow mobile that I can borrow from someone.  I was going to ask around at church yesterday, but we got in a hurry to get home since we needed to run a few errands before 1:30... Well, it's not like it's next week!

I know I can rent a quad from "The Rental Place" in Okanogan, but that's a little over $200/day ... I'd rather borrow one and save the $200 to buy my own in the future.

JavaMan

So.... They've convinced me to go back up this coming weekend.  We are going to attempt to do the following:

1.  Finish wrapping the place in roof paper
2.  Mount the windows and door
3.  Put siding on the gable ends

At this point it will be completely enclosed.  If possible I'd like to also...

Put siding on the parts that have openings (windows and door)
Put shutters over the windows.

Of course, if I get the first part done on Saturday, we'll be sleeping in the cabin, rather than the truck  ;D  But I need to find some sort of heat regardless.

Wish us luck! (If Loup Loup Pass shows much snow, we will be aborting the mission :-[ :-\)